Ready for tomorrow, though I'm wondering if I should jump myself right up to 40 lbs or do at least one workout at 35 lbs to get a feel for the new bar. It's got a knurled hand grip unlike my old one. I'll see how it goes, gotta use different plates anyway since this one actually has weight to it on its own which sounds perfect for warming up.
There's an Easter basket full of crap in the living room, mocking me.
This may seem harsh to the person that gave it to you, but just throw it away.
And I just want to chime in on the sick thing. I would never workout if I was running a temperature/fever. I have worked out while "sick" many times though and it only ever seemed to help.
Eh... a little chocolate here and there wont hurt me. Besides there's three other people in the house, they'll devour it.
Notice how your hips move about two inches when you initiate the pull, before the bar starts moving? It looks like in an effort the squeeze your chest forward, you drop the hips to a position that puts the bar forward of your midfoot. Set the bar up an inch in front of your shins, and don't let it move during your set up.
That's the only minor problem I can see. I find that when I start my hips too low, I don't have as solid lumbar position. Something about tugging the bar backwards to get it over the midfoot messes with a nice flat back for me.
Nice pull!
His form is fine and the bar isn't moving before he pulls. Moving the hips necessarily doesn't change the relationship between the bar and the foot. The foot obviously stays where it is and some people move the bar, but watch it and you can see the bar doesn't move. Some people lose their lumbar curve if their hips are too low but T_B isn't. His starting position is just fine. Frankly I'd like to see a heavier weight forcing his upper back to round just a little while coming off the floor. If you aren't rounding your upper back just a little off the floor, the weight isn't heavy enough in my book, especially for healthy young men like T_B. The lift didn't look very challenging.
Woop, gotta bring this back from the dead. You're right about the bar not moving forward as he drops his hips. But if you watch the video again, and pause at 20 seconds, then pause as soon as the bar starts moving, you'll see his hips have lifted a few inches. This is because the initial low hip position puts his scapula behind the bar, and his arms vertical, but the bar won't move unless the scapula are directly over the bar, and the arms lightly angled. Slightly tweeking his initial position will make the pull seem shorter.
The higher hip position might help, but it might also reduce his leg drive off the floor. I've read the deadlift analysis and seen the diagrams, and the bar does come off the ground with the scap-arm-bar relationship in the position you describe every time, but I've also seen thousands and thousands of deadlifts in person and I've seen a lot of people, myself included, who manage to get a more powerful leg drive off the floor by starting with the hips lower than the diagrams suggest and shooting the hips up just a little as the bar breaks the ground, and who try to do the higher-hipped start and can't lift as much. I say if it ain't broke don't fix it - T_B's form seemed to be comfortable and powerful for him so his first priority should be putting more weight on the bar in my opinion.
Notice how your hips move about two inches when you initiate the pull, before the bar starts moving? It looks like in an effort the squeeze your chest forward, you drop the hips to a position that puts the bar forward of your midfoot. Set the bar up an inch in front of your shins, and don't let it move during your set up.
That's the only minor problem I can see. I find that when I start my hips too low, I don't have as solid lumbar position. Something about tugging the bar backwards to get it over the midfoot messes with a nice flat back for me.
Nice pull!
His form is fine and the bar isn't moving before he pulls. Moving the hips necessarily doesn't change the relationship between the bar and the foot. The foot obviously stays where it is and some people move the bar, but watch it and you can see the bar doesn't move. Some people lose their lumbar curve if their hips are too low but T_B isn't. His starting position is just fine. Frankly I'd like to see a heavier weight forcing his upper back to round just a little while coming off the floor. If you aren't rounding your upper back just a little off the floor, the weight isn't heavy enough in my book, especially for healthy young men like T_B. The lift didn't look very challenging.
Woop, gotta bring this back from the dead. You're right about the bar not moving forward as he drops his hips. But if you watch the video again, and pause at 20 seconds, then pause as soon as the bar starts moving, you'll see his hips have lifted a few inches. This is because the initial low hip position puts his scapula behind the bar, and his arms vertical, but the bar won't move unless the scapula are directly over the bar, and the arms lightly angled. Slightly tweeking his initial position will make the pull seem shorter.
The higher hip position might help, but it might also reduce his leg drive off the floor. I've read the deadlift analysis and seen the diagrams, and the bar does come off the ground with the scap-arm-bar relationship in the position you describe every time, but I've also seen thousands and thousands of deadlifts in person and I've seen a lot of people, myself included, who manage to get a more powerful leg drive off the floor by starting with the hips lower than the diagrams suggest and shooting the hips up just a little as the bar breaks the ground, and who try to do the higher-hipped start and can't lift as much. I say if it ain't broke don't fix it - T_B's form seemed to be comfortable and powerful for him so his first priority should be putting more weight on the bar in my opinion.
Fair enough! I'd encourage T_B to try a more hips-up start position for some heavier warmups, it made my pulls feel easier. I agree that his form is excellent and he should throw more weight on the bar.
I know if I start with my hips higher I end up involving my lower back to a degree I'd rather not.
I've heard this before - some people find that slackening the hamstrings with a low hip position allows them to set their lower back more firmly. For me, my lower back always feels less stable after pulling hard without moving anything for the first bit of the movement i.e the situation on a heavy DL, where it won't come off the floor unless everything is lined up perfectly.
So I've uploaded some videos my room mate took of me lifting, so I could have you guys tear my form apart. I can already see some issues with my squats, namely not going quite deep enough although according to him I was going deeper during the ones he wasn't filming. My grip also seems off with the Shoulder Press and the Power Clean, I can see a bit off tilt to the left. Might get a permanent marker or something and mark where my hands need to be to help.
Any other issues I'll let you guys be the judge of, I've got six videos but they are all very short. I'll be doing something similar Wednesday so I can have my bench press and deadlift recorded. Also I know I, well... miss the right side of the rack in one video, think that might be because of my uneven grip.
Arthil I'm not going to get into specifics, other folks are better qualified to do that, but like I said before man that weight you're using is so trivial that you're never going to sort your form out. You aren't going to learn shit about shit "power cleaning" 38 lbs.
I agree man but it doesn't hurt making sure I'm doing it right with low weight before I bump it up. Either way I'm adding on at least 5 lbs Wednesday, by Friday I should be up to 48 lbs.
I'll side with Peen and say you should really go all out with the weight. It's almost impossible to really feel the form until you start putting your body under the kind of pressure where it would actually matter.
I suppose I'll try and chime in on your technique...
Squats are definitely not low enough. It looks like you've got a good back arch but to reach depth imagine a line from your hip joint to your knees and know that it should at least be parallel with the floor.
Your shoulder press is more like an incline bench press. Your body should be at an upright position to emphasize the deltoids > the chest.
As for the power clean, it looks like you're missing the point of the lift. I'll admit it's very hard to do proper with the bar so low to the ground (it'll be easier when you use bigger plates). Imagine the clean in two parts: First is the deadlift stage where you have to drag the bar up against your legs until you reach an upright locked-out position. From there, imagine a hang clean where you have to almost thrust the bar in the air with your pelvis by using all leg drive, and then simply catching it with your arms. Your arms are not used in this lift. They are simply there to catch the bar from falling. In fact, you should practice just doing hang cleans for a while until you get a hang of using leg drive.
It's funny you mention the shoulder press, a couple of videos showcasing it had their bench at around a 75 degree incline. I did do a few tests with just the bar and no plates after I put the bench together, and I found that if I set the backrest into an upright position the bar is sitting too far back for me to lift it off. If this is an issue I could try to get a chair or something and set it behind the bar, and have the rack adjusted to full height like in the videos.
I know I'll need to set them down at least one level lower for my actual bench presses Wednesday. Thanks for taking a look either way, if I can't do a proper shoulder press with my bench would an inclined bench press be a sufficient substitute?
KakodaimonosCode fondlerHelping the 1% get richerRegistered Userregular
On the squats, you've got too wide of a stance and you're leading with the knees. If you watch, see how you kind of buckle the knees first and then go down? You are also pushing your knees out during the lift. You want to start dropping the hips first and go down to parallel. I'd recommend you just try some chair squats and wall squats first.
Arthil, you're going to want to power clean from the hang position with that size of weight (starting from just above your knee). Power cleans are all about moving your hips in and up as fast as you can to throw the weight up. I disagree with mark rippetoe that it's a lift that a beginner lifter should be attempting, but then I disagree with essentially everything about the starting strength program.
For your squats you need to get deeper, but that will come with time and mobility. Start your workout by warming up your legs by kicking them straight up (without bending your knees) as high as you can and then as far back as you can) to stretch out your hamstrings and quads.
Right now your shoulder press is half way to an incline bench. A shoulder press should be straight up. You should be unracking the bar in the bottom position rather than half way up, and should be going down further before pushing back up. There are probably some mobility issues there too. A simple mobility warmup for your shoulders is simply doing arm circles, being sure to brush your ears each time.
On the squats, you've got too wide of a stance and you're leading with the knees. If you watch, see how you kind of buckle the knees first and then go down? You are also pushing your knees out during the lift. You want to start dropping the hips first and go down to parallel. I'd recommend you just try some chair squats and wall squats first.
I did feel something that could be described as a buckle actually, especially my left knee. I've thought that I was doing a shoulder width stance but if I'm not I'll get my feet in closer. As for chair squats, should I still use my weight in this? We have a chair that would be perfect downstairs I think.
And I'll do the hang cleans over the power cleans, though I see now what I've been doing wrong. Trying to push up with the bar from the ground, rather than raise it up above my knee/at my thighs before doing so.
I had actually, I've looked at videos for every lift I've been doing but apparently the videos were shitty. I know you aren't a fan but I saw one of Mark coaching someone on it, where they actually friggin' show their feet and calves.
The video I was using wasn't far back enough for me to see what was happening there. I'd gladly take recommended form videos over trying to dig them up on my own and basing my workout on bad form.
Arthil if you haven't already seen it I'd recommend mobilityWOD.com. It can get a little crossfit-ish and specialized but I've found it to be helpful for my very shitty mobility
@Methuselah Hey thanks for the additional comments. Yeah, I said in an earlier post that I've played with hip positioning before, and it's not something I'm 100% sure on yet. I found the way I pulled in that video kept my lumbar happier than when I've tried pulling with higher hips. But tomorrow is my DL day, so I'm going to play around a bit more.
Arthil - it looks like there are some mobility/flexibility issues that are keeping you from getting into the right position for a proper squat.
Your thighs should be able to at least be parallel with the floor (if not more). I'd suggest to practice trying to get into a deep a squat as possible by gripping onto a vertical pole or something for support, and seeing how much depth you can get. You will probably need to do some stretching. These are the general squat positions, for reference:
I'd suggest reading the SS book if you're doing SS.
Don't worry the crocs come off when I'm doing an actual lift. Been looking at a lot of things and I think my grip might be too wide too. I think I'll get down there tomorrow and do some squats while supporting myself just to try and recognize how it feels to be properly parallel, and of course to try some different grips on the bar.
I've also been thinking, it should be completely fine to sit on the back rest of my bench with it at a flat position if that will allow me to do a proper shoulder press, right?
I've also been thinking, it should be completely fine to sit on the back rest of my bench with it at a flat position if that will allow me to do a proper shoulder press, right?
Yes it is fine as long as the bench is stable, but you won't be doing as much work as you would if you were standing.
I've also been thinking, it should be completely fine to sit on the back rest of my bench with it at a flat position if that will allow me to do a proper shoulder press, right?
Yes it is fine as long as the bench is stable, but you won't be doing as much work as you would if you were standing.
Oh definitely but I have to do seated versions of ANY lift that brings it over my head. Just don't got the ceiling room. Bench should be stable, I actually tightened the thick ass bolt that holds the back rest onto the frame, cause it was wobbling a little Sunday when I tested it out. I guess when they said "do not tighten too much" they meant "don't tighten it to where it can't move at all."
Arthil, you're going to need to go a lot deeper on those squats and stop trying to stay so completely upright. You look like all you're doing is bending the knee when the squat is supposed to be a multi-joint exercise involving the hip, knee, and ankle. As far as the movement itself goes, flex the hip and push the knees out. You won't get far down without it. Think of moving the bar in a straight line down over the midfoot. If you need to get comfortable with the bottom position, forget the bar and just get down there and sit in it for as long as you can until it feels comfortable.
Also, don't do power cleans until you can squat and deadlift properly. Until you learn to use the hip, you're going to have a terrible time getting it right.
I think I see what you're saying, it looks like I'm afraid to let myself bend forward even a little. Going to be doing some major practice tomorrow, a lot of squatting low without a bar just to get a feel for it. Also going to try and do two things, fix where I grip the bar cause apparently that's too wide, and fix my stance which also is too wide.
Edit: As for the power clean thing, could I replace them fine with Hang Cleans or should maybe I just do Deadlifts instead until I've got better control over using my hip?
I think I see what you're saying, it looks like I'm afraid to let myself bend forward even a little. Going to be doing some major practice tomorrow, a lot of squatting low without a bar just to get a feel for it. Also going to try and do two things, fix where I grip the bar cause apparently that's too wide, and fix my stance which also is too wide.
Edit: As for the power clean thing, could I replace them fine with Hang Cleans or should maybe I just do Deadlifts instead until I've got better control over using my hip?
Just get down and sit down there something like this (if your knees want to cave in use your arms to push them out): http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/wY4gwVlO_k0/hqdefault.jpg
At the very least break parallel (hip crease going past the top of the knee joint) but if you are going to continue high-bar squatting then you'll want to learn to go as low as possible down the line. At the very least, you should feel your glutes working at the bottom of your squat.
As for the clean, you need to learn how to pull the weight off the floor such that the force moving the bar is generated by the hips/knee/ankle motion and transmitted to the bar through the back and on down locked arms. Currently you're just pulling the weight up with the arms and doing a reverse curl. The clean, on the other hand, does not involve the arm flexing to pull the weight up. Bent arms, whether they are moving the weight or not in general, just suck when it comes to heavy pulls. I'd suggest deadlifts at first as they don't require the kind of timing that a clean does. Unfortunately, the bad habits you build up now will be harder to break later.
Are you going to get the SS book? Tons of good info there.
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Eh... a little chocolate here and there wont hurt me. Besides there's three other people in the house, they'll devour it.
The higher hip position might help, but it might also reduce his leg drive off the floor. I've read the deadlift analysis and seen the diagrams, and the bar does come off the ground with the scap-arm-bar relationship in the position you describe every time, but I've also seen thousands and thousands of deadlifts in person and I've seen a lot of people, myself included, who manage to get a more powerful leg drive off the floor by starting with the hips lower than the diagrams suggest and shooting the hips up just a little as the bar breaks the ground, and who try to do the higher-hipped start and can't lift as much. I say if it ain't broke don't fix it - T_B's form seemed to be comfortable and powerful for him so his first priority should be putting more weight on the bar in my opinion.
Fair enough! I'd encourage T_B to try a more hips-up start position for some heavier warmups, it made my pulls feel easier. I agree that his form is excellent and he should throw more weight on the bar.
I've heard this before - some people find that slackening the hamstrings with a low hip position allows them to set their lower back more firmly. For me, my lower back always feels less stable after pulling hard without moving anything for the first bit of the movement i.e the situation on a heavy DL, where it won't come off the floor unless everything is lined up perfectly.
Any other issues I'll let you guys be the judge of, I've got six videos but they are all very short. I'll be doing something similar Wednesday so I can have my bench press and deadlift recorded. Also I know I, well... miss the right side of the rack in one video, think that might be because of my uneven grip.
First try with no weight on the bar for squat, not deep enough.
Second try, I think I got deep enough.
Two reps with weight on the bar.
Second shoulder press video, missed the rack on the right side.
Finally the power clean video.
Honestly, looks like your form needs a lot of work but I'm no expert so I'll leave it to the others.
Haha, I forgot to take the damn things off for my warm up, the crocs that is.
I love south american ground karate
I suppose I'll try and chime in on your technique...
Squats are definitely not low enough. It looks like you've got a good back arch but to reach depth imagine a line from your hip joint to your knees and know that it should at least be parallel with the floor.
Your shoulder press is more like an incline bench press. Your body should be at an upright position to emphasize the deltoids > the chest.
As for the power clean, it looks like you're missing the point of the lift. I'll admit it's very hard to do proper with the bar so low to the ground (it'll be easier when you use bigger plates). Imagine the clean in two parts: First is the deadlift stage where you have to drag the bar up against your legs until you reach an upright locked-out position. From there, imagine a hang clean where you have to almost thrust the bar in the air with your pelvis by using all leg drive, and then simply catching it with your arms. Your arms are not used in this lift. They are simply there to catch the bar from falling. In fact, you should practice just doing hang cleans for a while until you get a hang of using leg drive.
I know I'll need to set them down at least one level lower for my actual bench presses Wednesday. Thanks for taking a look either way, if I can't do a proper shoulder press with my bench would an inclined bench press be a sufficient substitute?
For your squats you need to get deeper, but that will come with time and mobility. Start your workout by warming up your legs by kicking them straight up (without bending your knees) as high as you can and then as far back as you can) to stretch out your hamstrings and quads.
Right now your shoulder press is half way to an incline bench. A shoulder press should be straight up. You should be unracking the bar in the bottom position rather than half way up, and should be going down further before pushing back up. There are probably some mobility issues there too. A simple mobility warmup for your shoulders is simply doing arm circles, being sure to brush your ears each time.
I did feel something that could be described as a buckle actually, especially my left knee. I've thought that I was doing a shoulder width stance but if I'm not I'll get my feet in closer. As for chair squats, should I still use my weight in this? We have a chair that would be perfect downstairs I think.
And I'll do the hang cleans over the power cleans, though I see now what I've been doing wrong. Trying to push up with the bar from the ground, rather than raise it up above my knee/at my thighs before doing so.
5x3x365
deads
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woooo
The video I was using wasn't far back enough for me to see what was happening there. I'd gladly take recommended form videos over trying to dig them up on my own and basing my workout on bad form.
Your thighs should be able to at least be parallel with the floor (if not more). I'd suggest to practice trying to get into a deep a squat as possible by gripping onto a vertical pole or something for support, and seeing how much depth you can get. You will probably need to do some stretching. These are the general squat positions, for reference:
I'd suggest reading the SS book if you're doing SS.
I've also been thinking, it should be completely fine to sit on the back rest of my bench with it at a flat position if that will allow me to do a proper shoulder press, right?
Those combined with good mornings make my lower back tight as hell though.
Feels good man.
Yes it is fine as long as the bench is stable, but you won't be doing as much work as you would if you were standing.
Oh definitely but I have to do seated versions of ANY lift that brings it over my head. Just don't got the ceiling room. Bench should be stable, I actually tightened the thick ass bolt that holds the back rest onto the frame, cause it was wobbling a little Sunday when I tested it out. I guess when they said "do not tighten too much" they meant "don't tighten it to where it can't move at all."
His face is as red as a tomato though.
Also looks like me and big l can be sock buddies.
QTF. Man, If I could get to this point strength wise and drop 20 lbs, I'd be happy as a clam.
Also, don't do power cleans until you can squat and deadlift properly. Until you learn to use the hip, you're going to have a terrible time getting it right.
Edit: As for the power clean thing, could I replace them fine with Hang Cleans or should maybe I just do Deadlifts instead until I've got better control over using my hip?
Just get down and sit down there something like this (if your knees want to cave in use your arms to push them out): http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/wY4gwVlO_k0/hqdefault.jpg
At the very least break parallel (hip crease going past the top of the knee joint) but if you are going to continue high-bar squatting then you'll want to learn to go as low as possible down the line. At the very least, you should feel your glutes working at the bottom of your squat.
As for the clean, you need to learn how to pull the weight off the floor such that the force moving the bar is generated by the hips/knee/ankle motion and transmitted to the bar through the back and on down locked arms. Currently you're just pulling the weight up with the arms and doing a reverse curl. The clean, on the other hand, does not involve the arm flexing to pull the weight up. Bent arms, whether they are moving the weight or not in general, just suck when it comes to heavy pulls. I'd suggest deadlifts at first as they don't require the kind of timing that a clean does. Unfortunately, the bad habits you build up now will be harder to break later.
Are you going to get the SS book? Tons of good info there.
nice fight at the end there, bud. good lift