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MythBusters cause some collateral damage

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Posts

  • ArchArch An insect, therefore, is not afraid of gravity Registered User regular
    But to actually argue about this

    We are lucky no one got hurt, accidents and bad decisions were made, Mythbusters and the crew are still positive influences, to me.

    Now, if they don't like, pay for all the damages completely then maybe we will have a problem.

  • nhrnnhrn Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote:
    Oh. This might explain things:
    Savage and Hyneman were not present; the experiment was being conducted by their colleagues Tory Belleci, Kari Byron and Grant Imahara. Shooting was stopped once the crew learned what had happened.

    Goddammit, those guys just aren't careful enough. They've done a few experiments with extremely questionable safety standards in the past (the creamer explosive, zapping Jamie as a practical joke, the 'car hitting a fruit stand' experiment, etc).


    Also, to be fair to the younger 'Busters:
    Sgt. JD Nelson, Public Information Officer and bomb technician for the Alameda County Sheriff’s office, who is a regular safety explosives expert for MythBusters, was on site and all proper safety protocol was observed. Beyond Productions is currently assessing the situation and working with those whose property was affected.”

    Though there were no injuries, there was damage to the home and a parked car. “We had some tremendous bad luck and some tremendous good luck,” Sgt. Nelson told the
    They're small points to quibble over, but it was Adam that got shocked and the younger 'Busters were forced into the 'joke' by one of the (now former) producers.

    From the information that's been released this does seem like a case of bad luck, until the investigation is complete/they release more information we can just be glad no one was hurt and instead speculate one what if any consequences there might be for the Mythbusters.

  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    As someone who has watched the first six seasons over and over again, this does not surprise me in the least. How many times have they had projectiles make an unusual bounce? Even with proper safety checks, their experiments often go awry. Also, the second team is notorious for being sketchy on how they put experiments together.

    And let's not forget that in one early air cannon test they forgot Newton's Third Law of Motion, which launched their unmounted cannon tube into the wall of the building. I love the show, but these guys are special effects guys who know enough science to be dangerous.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    Arch wrote:
    But to actually argue about this

    We are lucky no one got hurt, accidents and bad decisions were made, Mythbusters and the crew are still positive influences, to me.

    Now, if they don't like, pay for all the damages completely then maybe we will have a problem.

    Eh. I mean, if you look at it statistically, taking the average persons per a square foot and the distance the cannonball traveled do you really think it'd be a 50% chance to hit somebody?

    (Too soon?)

    Clearly we should set up a controlled set of experiments to see if you're really likely to hit somebody when you misfire a cannon at a semi-secure location.

    (Too soon.)

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  • November FifthNovember Fifth Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I am a big Mythbusters fan, but I have felt that some of their experiments in the past were really iffy.

    Cannons are extremely dangerous in general, improvised devices even more so.

    I had a history professor in college who was a retired army officer. He had a number of horror stories relating to artillery safety, usually ending with careless operators being horribly maimed or a shell being delivered to the wrong area.

    November Fifth on
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  • wakaranaiwakaranai Registered User regular
    As Grant is the only engineer out of the three, I think he'll probably be taking a large amount of the blame. I'm pretty certain that they had other engineers onsite though, so maybe not.

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    On the plus side, it's a fair bet the incident was well documented for any court cases that may come up.
    I'm just hoping the show itself doesn't get cancelled, it may not always show the science involved in planning the experiments but compared to some of the other crap on Discovery (or any other "Educational" channel)...

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • KoreanEvokeKoreanEvoke Registered User
    see317 wrote:
    On the plus side, it's a fair bet the incident was well documented for any court cases that may come up.
    I'm just hoping the show itself doesn't get cancelled, it may not always show the science involved in planning the experiments but compared to some of the other crap on Discovery (or any other "Educational" channel)...

    Agreed, as unfortunate as this was, this show is good!
    Its always nice to waste a few hours watching this show and learning (sometimes) while watching.

    There were definitely a lot of close calls here though that should not be repeated.
    In the least, their future security and preparation standards will likely be going up, so at least something good will come from it.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I am going to be depressed as fuck if this somehow snowballs into getting the show canceled. This is one of the few joys I have left on this planet.

    I've also wondered about their safety methods, but in general they've only gotten a whole ton better. In the early days they would be firing shotguns willy nilly in the shop. Now they're always heading to the bomb range at the drop of a hat.

    Knowing it was the build team though... makes a bit more sense. They've always been sketchy. In a hilarious way. But not this time I guess.

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  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I am going to be depressed as fuck if this somehow snowballs into getting the show canceled.

    Unfortunately, a show like this requires pretty expensive insurance, and their rates are going to go up a lot after this; assuming the insurer is still willing in the first place. They've had to avoid doing things in the past for insurance reasons. And now they shot a cannonball and hit two houses and a car.

    So, yeah, this might actually be a really bad thing for them.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Having read through what articles on the story are available so far, my take on it is this:

    1) A lot of the blame should be shouldered by the bomb range. According to everyone there, they set the safety standards for the test, and the crew met all of those standards, while the experts at the range supervised the whole set-up & execution.

    2) Whomever set-up the cannon & ballsed-up the trajectory needs to be let go. Dunno who it was, and I know it was probably a small mistake, but that shit just can't fly. You have to be extra careful when aiming something like a a cannon, and they weren't. Time to for them to pack-up their things and find a new job.

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  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    My big takeaway from all this is "Wait, the bomb range is 700 yards away from residential areas?!"

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  • MetroidZoidMetroidZoid Registered User regular
    If this was me, and granted, I can't say I've ever been through someone cannon-balling my house, but if it was my house, and the Discovery Channel paid all the insurance and repairs timely and Jamie and Adam signed the cannon ball and let me keep it? Yeah, I'd forgive them.

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  • Alfred J. KwakAlfred J. Kwak Registered User
    edited December 2011
    today, a lot of people learned that cannonballs bounce

    they should play more Empires or Warhammer or something

    it's actually quite interesting to see how far that ball went after the first impact

    Alfred J. Kwak on
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Boatrower-Kitteh Registered User regular
    This is just going to snowball, unfortunately. All it'll take is some sleazebag lawyer to show up and start throwing around ideas of giant potential settlements ("Hey, they're on teevee, they gotta have money!") and at least one of these silly geese will take the bait for a lawsuit.

    Which is a real damn shame- just chalk it up to what it is- a freak accident that didn't hurt anyone, pay to repair the houses and car, and apologize. Stuff like this is the reason they have that disclaimer at most commercial breaks and the show's beginning- because shit like this can go down and it could have ended very, very badly. I'm just happy that no one was hurt.

    But if anyone should be sued, I agree with it being the bomb range, because they're the ones who said it was okay to bring the damn cannon in, in the first place, as well as the county for letting a bunch of genius architects and planners build houses less than a half-mile from a BOMB RANGE, for crying out loud.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    But if anyone should be sued, I agree with it being the bomb range, because they're the ones who said it was okay to bring the damn cannon in, in the first place, as well as the county for letting a bunch of genius architects and planners build houses less than a half-mile from a BOMB RANGE, for crying out loud

    Yes, but we can't totally just absolve whomever aimed the cannon (maybe it was one of the 'Busters, maybe it was one of the experts on hand) either. That was one of the primary causes for the accident - it it's not something that should've happened, at all. You shouldn't just be 'fudging' the aim of a cannon when you've got houses down range from your firing position.

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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote:
    This is just going to snowball, unfortunately. All it'll take is some sleazebag lawyer to show up and start throwing around ideas of giant potential settlements ("Hey, they're on teevee, they gotta have money!") and at least one of these silly geese will take the bait for a lawsuit.

    Which is a real damn shame- just chalk it up to what it is- a freak accident that didn't hurt anyone, pay to repair the houses and car, and apologize. Stuff like this is the reason they have that disclaimer at most commercial breaks and the show's beginning- because shit like this can go down and it could have ended very, very badly. I'm just happy that no one was hurt.

    But if anyone should be sued, I agree with it being the bomb range, because they're the ones who said it was okay to bring the damn cannon in, in the first place, as well as the county for letting a bunch of genius architects and planners build houses less than a half-mile from a BOMB RANGE, for crying out loud.

    Considering that the family did allow Adam and Jamie to come in, survey the damage, and apologize profusely, ultimately I'm guessing it'll blow over after the show pays for the damage.

    I can't really blame them for the show getting suspended (it's not going to get cancelled, just a hiatus), because this is really the kind of thing you need to now go over a gazillion times to make sure it never ever happens again before you take on any more myths. For the myth it says they were doing- trying to shoot a cannon ball through castle walls- I'd not have used the bomb range as the venue. I'd have found a quarry with a cliff acting as a failsafe backstop. Or maybe the Mojave, with the softer ground acting as an airbag. When they get going again and restart the myth- and they will get going again- that's where I'm ultimately hoping to see them.

    On the other hand, silver lining, now we know the myth itself is heading towards Plausible.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Boatrower-Kitteh Registered User regular
    I don't think they were fudging, but at the same time, I kind of see your point on that. But I still stand by my point that the real responsibility for this should lie with the bomb range for letting them bring the cannon on premises to fire it. The sheriff's office should have known that the bomb range wasn't meant to act as an artillery range.

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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    There's really enough blame to go around. I'm not sure trying to assign proportions of blame or doing any kind of finger-pointing is going to do any good. Anyone who played any part in the process from 'cannon allowed on range' to 'hey, what's behind that hill' should really just share in the blame in a way that doesn't turn into 'everybody's to blame, so nobody's to blame'. Everyone involved should- and will, it thankfully appears- take a step back and figure out what they could have done personally to make that not have happened. There were enough failure points here that everyone ought to be making amends.

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  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Honestly? With all the crazy shit they've done over the years? To me the most shocking part of this is that it took this long for something like this to happen.

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  • HaleskarthHaleskarth Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Gosling wrote:
    There's really enough blame to go around. I'm not sure trying to assign proportions of blame or doing any kind of finger-pointing is going to do any good. Anyone who played any part in the process from 'cannon allowed on range' to 'hey, what's behind that hill' should really just share in the blame in a way that doesn't turn into 'everybody's to blame, so nobody's to blame'. Everyone involved should- and will, it thankfully appears- take a step back and figure out what they could have done personally to make that not have happened. There were enough failure points here that everyone ought to be making amends.

    Indeed.
    I'm with the elf, given the concept of Mythbusters, it seemed unlikely that at no point in shooting would something like this ever go awry. A bunch of small technical failures leading up to one accident where thankfully no one was harmed was bound to take place at some point.

    The amount of finger pointing in this thread would make you think a whole bunch of people are trying to dodge blame, while I'm sure no one involved at this point is really being like "Nope not my fault had nothing to do with this.". They're all professionals, and I'm sure they all feel pretty terrible that this would happen under any of their watch and supervision, and are probably more thankful than anyone that no one was hurt.

    Haleskarth on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Thinking back... they've done this before. I'm pretty sure it was the matchheads myth. They made a cannon out of a pipe, used a thousand matchheads as the gunpowder, and used a bowling ball as the cannonball. And it was at the bomb range where it hit the side of the hill and bounced up on it. Wouldn't surprise me if it was the same exact hill shooting the same exact direction. And that worked out just fine. Doesn't seem like a stretch to think it would be ok again. Other than the fact that this time the ball decided to play fast and loose with physics.

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  • CliffCliff Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote:
    This is just going to snowball, unfortunately. All it'll take is some sleazebag lawyer to show up and start throwing around ideas of giant potential settlements ("Hey, they're on teevee, they gotta have money!") and at least one of these silly geese will take the bait for a lawsuit.

    Which is a real damn shame- just chalk it up to what it is- a freak accident that didn't hurt anyone, pay to repair the houses and car, and apologize. Stuff like this is the reason they have that disclaimer at most commercial breaks and the show's beginning- because shit like this can go down and it could have ended very, very badly. I'm just happy that no one was hurt.

    But if anyone should be sued, I agree with it being the bomb range, because they're the ones who said it was okay to bring the damn cannon in, in the first place, as well as the county for letting a bunch of genius architects and planners build houses less than a half-mile from a BOMB RANGE, for crying out loud.

    So, just so we are clear, if I shoot a cannonball through your house, you would be the silly goose for wanting to sue me? Or would it be different because I don't have a popular show? Seriously, the amount of leeway many of you are giving these guys just because their show entertains you is quite disturbing. I mean, I like say, South Park, but if Matt and Trey almost killed several innocent people, I'm pretty sure my response wouldn't be "Yeah but... South Park is a good show."

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  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    A controlled experiment at a bomb range under the supervision of supposed experts is not anything like "LOL I'll just aim my cannon in a random direction and fire it off".

    I never knew how close to civilization that bomb range was. It's plenty far for most of your explosive experiments but way too close for firearms/cannons. Did the ball ricochet over to the houses? There's plenty of room to be firing the cannon north.

    Cabezone on
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    Cabezone wrote:
    A controlled experiment at a bomb range under the supervision of supposed experts is not anything like "LOL I'll just aim my cannon in a random direction and fire it off".
    Plus, freak accidents do happen, you can't just go "it happened, therefore they weren't careful enough". Someone mentioned an indoor firing range- I remember watching a show about a shooting case where the victim turned out to have been hit by a bullet that'd come from a range a fair distance away, after the bullet ricochet twice before exiting through a tiny window on a completely different side of the building from where the shot was fired.

  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    Cliff wrote:

    So, just so we are clear, if I shoot a cannonball through your house, you would be the silly goose for wanting to sue me? Or would it be different because I don't have a popular show? Seriously, the amount of leeway many of you are giving these guys just because their show entertains you is quite disturbing. I mean, I like say, South Park, but if Matt and Trey almost killed several innocent people, I'm pretty sure my response wouldn't be "Yeah but... South Park is a good show."

    The point of tort is to make you whole, not score a damn payday. Some punitive payment wouldn't be bad, but it shouldn't be millions of dollars, especially if no criminal charges are filed.

    Murder and this incident where no one was even injured are nowhere near the same thing.

    Quit being a goose.

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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    An incident like this really explains why they went out into the desert for the Myth of the lethality of firing guns straight up. If they had done it at the bomb range, who knows where they would have landed.

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  • WappaduWappadu Registered User regular
    MyDcmbr wrote:
    Cliff wrote:

    So, just so we are clear, if I shoot a cannonball through your house, you would be the silly goose for wanting to sue me? Or would it be different because I don't have a popular show? Seriously, the amount of leeway many of you are giving these guys just because their show entertains you is quite disturbing. I mean, I like say, South Park, but if Matt and Trey almost killed several innocent people, I'm pretty sure my response wouldn't be "Yeah but... South Park is a good show."

    The point of tort is to make you whole, not score a damn payday. Some punitive payment wouldn't be bad, but it shouldn't be millions of dollars, especially if no criminal charges are filed.

    Murder and this incident where no one was even injured are nowhere near the same thing.

    Quit being a goose.

    He didn't say murder anywhere. "Almost killed several innocent people" is exactly what happened here. Look in the mirror for your goose.

  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    Working in the TV buisness, and I seriously hope I'm so, so, so wrong, I do not see any good outcome from this. It's either going to mean the cancellation of the show, the end of the build team or a very, very long hiatus.

    I would be shocked if there's any more episodes shot between now and like May of next year, if ever.

    No insurance company will touch this show now, and if one decides to, they're going to use this as a giant payday.

    Also the news here this morning ran some sound with Adam, and he honestly sounded upset enough that I could see HIM ending things for a bit.

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  • DeebaserDeebaser Alpha Teemo Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote:
    Which is a real damn shame- just chalk it up to what it is- a freak accident that didn't hurt anyone, pay to repair the houses and car, and apologize. Stuff like this is the reason they have that disclaimer at most commercial breaks and the show's beginning- because shit like this can go down and it could have ended very, very badly. I'm just happy that no one was hurt.

    I am also happy that no one was hurt, but someone could have been killed. If I were king, anyone responsible would spend about a week in jail and have a few hundred hours of community service.

  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    "What's that? You put a cannonball through my house? Let me work behind the scenes on the show and all is forgiven."

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    Keep in mind that it doesn't sound like they purposely aimed the cannon too high... it could be something happened to cause the cannon to jerk up after the fuse was lit, with nothing they could do. Cannons by their nature are a little unwieldy.

    At any rate, this really is a bad situation. Pretty much all the news wires picked this up, so it's hardly anything that can be swept under the rug. Then again this is the Discovery Channel's most popular show, and I doubt they'll let it go without a reasonable fight. It could be that insurance rates go up, but Discovery doesn't mind the extra expense. Of course a lot of this depends on how big of a stink the victims/neighbors decide to make out of this.

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  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The first and most important thing is that nobody got hurt, which is a total miracle but truly the best thing about it. The second thing is that while I love Mythbusters, heads have to roll over this shit and someone has to be held accountable. They've done a lot of really awesome things and frankly, I'm surprised we haven't had more incidents like this with some of the shit they've done. But if this had been slightly different we could have had people seriously hurt or in more likelihood, outright killed. I really hope to see a comprehensive and pretty thorough response, with whoever screwed the pooch getting held accountable.

    Cannons are weapons of war, even if they are from a bygone era and so they still demand as much respect as possible. Doing something like this right nearby people, even with a "backstop" was simply stupid. Surely they could use one of the artillery ranges in the middle of nowhere in the US they've used in the past to do this sort of thing, where there would be absolutely no threat to people? Who on earth was their ballistics/weapons expert on this? If the cannon did indeed slip, changing the angle of the cannonball then that is a serious fail on the safety/set up of this stunt in the first place.

    Just really disappointing from them: They should have known better.
    today, a lot of people learned that cannonballs bounce

    they should play more Empires or Warhammer or something

    it's actually quite interesting to see how far that ball went after the first impact

    You know, as a teen back when I first discovered warhammer, we had so many arguments about if cannon balls did actually bounce and how far they did. Certain people felt - quite vehemently - that they would just stop when they first hit because it would stick them into the ground. I was certain that wasn't the case because I had read things called "books" that said otherwise, but some random unidentified show on TV obviously proved me wrong.

    How I somewhat wish this was around to show them back then. As well as the general irony of this being TV show related.

    Aegeri on
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    I see this as a perfect opportunity to fire some of the sausage on that show and bring in more qualified and sexy females.

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote:
    As mentioned, the cannon/cannonball was a known weapon.

    Also, while I may rile up the Mythbusters fans, it might be possible through actual science and engineering methods to predict the maximum range of any given object, considering you have most of the variables necessary to do so. Length of gun, bore size, weight of the object, cross-sectional area (and other aerodynamic properties), weight of charge, etc.

    I don't think the issue here, mind you, was an inability to predict the maximum potential range of the round/object being fired. They had a pretty good idea that it could reach populated areas, which is why they were firing it into their constructed backstop. They just didn't consider that their constructed backstop could fail.

    EDIT: Don't take any of that the wrong way, mind you...I love me some Mythbusters. But damn, this shit just seems irresponsible.

    It wouldn't be a show if they started doing in-depth calculations on things. I'm sure they do some calculations, but neither of the two hosts nor any of the other presenters are physicists.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    Adam just tweeted that the show hasn't been cancelled or suspended, they're still in production.

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  • WarcryWarcry Registered User regular
    I really hope that all the events of this incident make it onto the show.

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  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime "We're ready to believe you..." FireSideWizardRegistered User regular
    I think they just suspended production of that episode, not the show as a whole.

    Ball ammunition, even ones this size, can do crazy things while in flight. If there is some fouling in the barrell you could get a crazy spin on the ball and it will curve just like a baseball. It curves enough to hit something it shouldn't then richochets out to god-knows-where.

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  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    Warcry wrote:
    I really hope that all the events of this incident make it onto the show.

    From what I saw, when Adam and Jamie visited the family, they made a promise that it wouldn't. So you're out of luck on that. We're probably not going to know the full details of what went on because of that, but I think we can be pretty damn sure they're going to go over every single frame of tape- and there are a lot of frames; they have high-speed- to pinpoint every single thing that went wrong even a little bit.

    And whatever did go wrong, I'm half-expecting some new safety posters to show up at M7 with a picture of the hole and a phrase along the lines of "CARELESSNESS = THIS".

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