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Community: Season 4 Premiere February 7, Old Timeslot

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Posts

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    you think a character being 'in character' means doing the same thing all the time. it doesn't.

    Nice strawman, there.

    Being in character simply means that the character behaves plausibly in the context based on what we know about him. Pierce surprising everyone with a heart felt speech at the end of season 2 was unexpected, but it fit within the context, because it explained things we already knew about him but didn't understand. Jeff reversal with Pierce at the start of season 3 was different, but that was explained because we already knew that Jeff was insecure and we already knew that Pierce was done with his self-destructive phase. Annie intentionally attempting to fail a class is very different from what we expect from her, but it makes sense that she would value friendship as being more important. On the other hand, the writers agreed that Annie wanting to transfer to City College was out of character for Annie, and the rationalization for it was weak at best. They agreed that Abed walking away after hearing a teacher shoot himself was also unrealistic, and the scene didn't belong.

    Abed already knew the teacher was crazy. He was already scheming to fix the problem. Then he discovers the teacher was a mass murderer who planned to kill him next, and he suddenly stops caring about the situation.

    What's the reason for the change? You can say that Abed is coming to terms with the darkness he created, or something. But that part already happened the first time he realized the teacher was crazy.

    Schrodinger on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    I mean I really don't know what else to say. I liked the episode as-is. I don't feel that it needed anything else. What do you even mean by "needed"? What criteria did they fail to satisfy? Because if it's "realism" or whatever I wonder if we're watching the same show.

    Have Abed act in character. You know, the same standard that pretty much all shows are judged by. Really not that difficult.

    If you discovered that that a teacher you admired was crazy and obsessive about you, and then later you discovered that the teacher murdered his previous students just to get to you and likely would have murdered you next, would your natural reaction be, "Change the subject to something else and go home"?

    If I were Abed - someone who was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and whose sole motivation in the episode was to try and get everyone together for Christmas in a happy way - then yes, I think I would have done the same thing. Abed's actions were completely in-character to me. It makes total sense to me that he would feel disappointment at how things turned out and not really give a shit about the Glee club teacher. And the rest of them were all still under the Glee spell, just breaking out of it by the time the Glee teacher had already flown.

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  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    he schemed to save his friends

    he was focused on his friends

    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
    Sig%20-%20Reggie%20Watts.png
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    you think a character being 'in character' means doing the same thing all the time. it doesn't.

    Nice strawman, there.

    Being in character simply means that the character behaves plausibly in the context based on what we know about him. Pierce surprising everyone with a heart felt speech at the end of season 2 was unexpected, but it fit within the context, because it explained things we already knew about him but didn't understand. Jeff reversal with Pierce at the start of season 3 was different, but that was explained because we already knew that Jeff was insecure and we already knew that Pierce was done with his self-destructive phase. Annie intentionally attempting to fail a class is very different from what we expect from her, but it makes sense that she would value friendship as being more important. On the other hand, the writers agreed that Annie wanting to transfer to City College was out of character for Annie, and the rationalization for it was weak at best. They agreed that Abed walking away after hearing a teacher shoot himself was also unrealistic, and the scene didn't belong.

    Abed already knew the teacher was crazy. He was already scheming to fix the problem. Then he discovers the teacher was a mass murderer who planned to kill him next, and he suddenly stops caring about the situation.

    What's the reason for the change? You can say that Abed is coming to terms with the darkness he created, or something. But that part already happened the first time he realized the teacher was crazy.

    He never cared about the creepiness of the teacher. What he cared about was breaking the Glee spell that he unwittingly and indirectly inflicted on his friends, so they wouldn't get suckered into doing it for eternity which is what the Glee teacher wished. The Glee teacher was totally irrelevant. What mattered was that he wanted t make sure his friends were not stuck under the Glee spell.

    And prior to that, his sole motivation in the episode was to prove that his friends could stay together for Christmas happily. Which is what he was concerned with at the end of the episode.

    Abed acted in total consistency with both his character and the episode.

    Drez on
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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 Registered User regular
    I have to admit, for a show where official cannon had students gunning each other down with paintball in order to secure rights to early registration, there are some people who are way over committed to 'realism' from the same show.

    I am in the business of saving lives.

    camo_sig2.png
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote:
    I have to admit, for a show where official cannon had students gunning each other down with paintball in order to secure rights to early registration, there are some people who are way over committed to 'realism' from the same show.

    Realism is a bad word to use. What people usually mean is internal consistency. And it's fine to argue with respect to that. Fiction is fiction, but that doesn't mean it doesn't adhere to its own self-defined rules. For instance, Superman can fly. He can't teleport. If suddenly he could teleport with no explanation, then that would be "unrealistic" in the sense that it would be internally inconsistent within the Superman mythos. (Bad example, I know.)

    I just don't agree that how Abed acted at the end of this episode is inconsistent with his character.

    Drez on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Parks and Rec is easily the best comedy on network TV. If we add cable, Archer would have an argument.

    My cousin made this game: Gem Pop. It's legitimately fun, particularly for people who enjoy Bejewled, Dr. Mario, Tetris, etc. kinds of games. Only two bucks! If you try it out, PM me with what you think of it.
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    Have Abed act in character. You know, the same standard that pretty much all shows are judged by. Really not that difficult.

    If you discovered that that a teacher you admired was crazy and obsessive about you, and then later you discovered that the teacher murdered his previous students just to get to you and likely would have murdered you next, would your natural reaction be, "Change the subject to something else and go home"?

    If I were Abed - someone who was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and whose sole motivation in the episode was to try and get everyone together for Christmas in a happy way - then yes, I think I would have done the same thing. Abed's actions were completely in-character to me. It makes total sense to me that he would feel disappointment at how things turned out and not really give a shit about the Glee club teacher. And the rest of them were all still under the Glee spell, just breaking out of it by the time the Glee teacher had already flown.[/quote]

    What disappointment?

    His plan worked. Britta not defeated the villain, but Dean's "let Britta sing!" speech saved Christmas. The spell was broken when the group got together and defended Britta for the first time ever. Everyone was cheering in the spirit of the Holidays, but in a way that they were no longer in control of the teacher.

    The only "disappointment" is the revelation that the teacher was a murderer who was planning to murder the team. And if he hadn't let that slip, he likely would have cut Britta's brake line the next day in order to salvage the rest of the group. But if that's the part where Abed was disappointed, then why wouldn't he stay behind?
    Variable wrote:
    he schemed to save his friends

    he was focused on his friends

    So Abed wanted to save his friend from a teacher who wanted to hold them captive, but not from the same teacher who was planning to murder them?

  • TexiKenTexiKen Registered User regular
    Community is still the best show on TV. Then American Dad.

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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    If I were stranded on a deserted island and I could only watch one TV show for the rest of my days, it would be seasons 3-9 of the Simpsons Community.

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  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    Have Abed act in character. You know, the same standard that pretty much all shows are judged by. Really not that difficult.

    If you discovered that that a teacher you admired was crazy and obsessive about you, and then later you discovered that the teacher murdered his previous students just to get to you and likely would have murdered you next, would your natural reaction be, "Change the subject to something else and go home"?

    If I were Abed - someone who was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and whose sole motivation in the episode was to try and get everyone together for Christmas in a happy way - then yes, I think I would have done the same thing. Abed's actions were completely in-character to me. It makes total sense to me that he would feel disappointment at how things turned out and not really give a shit about the Glee club teacher. And the rest of them were all still under the Glee spell, just breaking out of it by the time the Glee teacher had already flown.

    What disappointment?

    His plan worked. Britta not defeated the villain, but Dean's "let Britta sing!" speech saved Christmas. The spell was broken when the group got together and defended Britta for the first time ever. Everyone was cheering in the spirit of the Holidays, but in a way that they were no longer in control of the teacher.

    The only "disappointment" is the revelation that the teacher was a murderer who was planning to murder the team. And if he hadn't let that slip, he likely would have cut Britta's brake line the next day in order to salvage the rest of the group. But if that's the part where Abed was disappointed, then why wouldn't he stay behind?
    Variable wrote:
    he schemed to save his friends

    he was focused on his friends

    So Abed wanted to save his friend from a teacher who wanted to hold them captive, but not from the same teacher who was planning to murder them?
    he was on the run, going to be arrested. after a wild threat that revealed his guilt which then overtook his interest in killing them in order to form a new team. since he wouldn't be the glee club guy anymore and would in fact be in jail.

    really hoped you had come along on that at this point.

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    Realism is a bad word to use. What people usually mean is internal consistency. And it's fine to argue with respect to that. Fiction is fiction, but that doesn't mean it doesn't adhere to its own self-defined rules. For instance, Superman can fly. He can't teleport. If suddenly he could teleport with no explanation, then that would be "unrealistic" in the sense that it would be internally inconsistent within the Superman mythos. (Bad example, I know.)

    I just don't agree that how Abed acted at the end of this episode is inconsistent with his character.

    Abed is my favorite character on the show. In three seasons, he has done a lot of different things, and surprised us in a lot of different ways. And all that time, I never once complained that his character behaved inconsistently, or that he defined internal logic.

    This episode is the first time I made that complaint.

    Abed's character is one that is malleable enough to essentially do anything. My personal analysis is that his brain lacks an intuitive filter, so he processes a lot of information without structure, meaning he has to seek out a means to organize information externally rather than internally. So Chicken Fingers mafia makes sense. Han Solo makes sense. Vampire Abed makes sense. Row Boat Cop makes sense. Evil Abed makes sense. Dark Knight makes sense. Claymation makes sense. etc.

    But even then, I'm still at a complete loss to explain any reality that would explain his total lack of caring. This is a man with no built-in filter. How does a man with no built-in filter filter out something like "mass murderer"?

  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    he's fretting over his friends. I think probably the worst way to spend christmas is talking to cops... why doesn't Christmas Cheer Abed make sense?

    didn't he have trouble filtering things out in the episode where he acted like a dick to everyone? the robot one? haven't seen that in ages but I'm pretty sure he is asked to stop and doesn't? the bitch episode

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • DeebaserDeebaser Way out in the water See it swimmin'?Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote:
    I have to admit, for a show where official cannon had students gunning each other down with paintball in order to secure rights to early registration, there are some people who are way over committed to 'realism' from the same show.

    totally realistic. Back in college I would have thrown a box of adorable kittens in a wood chipper for early registration.

    #FreeThan
    #FreeScheck
    #FreeSKFM
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote:
    MegaMan001 wrote:
    I have to admit, for a show where official cannon had students gunning each other down with paintball in order to secure rights to early registration, there are some people who are way over committed to 'realism' from the same show.

    totally realistic. Back in college I would have thrown a box of adorable kittens in a wood chipper for early registration.

    My mother was the office manager of the biology department, which means she was just an 'upper secretary'. However, this gave her access to the registration system and she just added me to whatever classes I needed way before they opened.

    I am in the business of saving lives.

    camo_sig2.png
  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    you probably could have wielded a lot of power with a setup like that

    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    he's fretting over his friends. I think probably the worst way to spend christmas is talking to cops... why doesn't Christmas Cheer Abed make sense?

    didn't he have trouble filtering things out in the episode where he acted like a dick to everyone? the robot one? haven't seen that in ages but I'm pretty sure he is asked to stop and doesn't? the bitch episode

    Abed's lack of filter is mentioned in Chicken Fingers and Mean Girls. In the first one, Britta tries to encourage Abed to keep that to himself. In the second, Britta encourages Abed to be more open about it.

    That's also the reason for his Claymation Breakdown. Abed needed rituals to help him process holidays and family. When the ritual was taken away, he no longer had the filter, so he regressed to find a new one (Claymation).

  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    when he tried to start a new ritual (happy christmas with his friends) and it was taken away (freak glee club director who he has to save his friends from) he regressed to find a new one (inspector space time, NOT waiting for cops)

    edit - I feel like you're using filter in 2 different ways in that post.

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote:
    MegaMan001 wrote:
    I have to admit, for a show where official cannon had students gunning each other down with paintball in order to secure rights to early registration, there are some people who are way over committed to 'realism' from the same show.

    totally realistic. Back in college I would have thrown a box of adorable kittens in a wood chipper for early registration.

    All of the characters had a pretty clear motivation, either stated or implied. Annie is an overachiever. Abed wants to be in a movie. Troy wants to have fun with Abed. Pierce just wants to be part of a team. Britta and Jeff are the most petty. They have stated motivations, but they also hate to lose, and you can justify their behavior just on that.

    And let's face it: The idea of gunning down your fellow students is fun, even without priority registration. I'm sure lots of people were playing just to be jerks, and others in self-defense.

    If you had a chance to participate in a school wide paintball tournament, wouldn't you want to be part of it?

  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    more the motivation of the school is questionable I'd say

    not that I would question it, it's a weird school

    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    when he tried to start a new ritual (happy christmas with his friends) and it was taken away (freak glee club director who he has to save his friends from) he regressed to find a new one (inspector space time, NOT waiting for cops)

    edit - I feel like you're using filter in 2 different ways in that post.

    Filters, structure, organization, etc. A filter is basically saying, "Some pieces of information are important, and some pieces aren't." Abed has trouble making that distinction. He takes in information without an intuitive sense of meaning. That's why the real world makes no sense to Abed. That's why his Halloween story includes details that most people find unimportant, like the time between turning on the radio and hearing the key broadcast. He relies on TV and movies for structure, because that's what he's used to. But in chicken fingers, he no longer needs that, because he finds structure in chicken. In D&D, he finds structure in the game. So the idea that "Abed can only connect to people through TV and movies" is actually a misconception. That's the method he's most familiar with, but it's not literally the only way. What he really wants is less the movie itself, and more the structure that movie gives him.

    In this episode, Abed's brain is already primed for, "Wow, Glee Club director is crazy, time to fix the problem." The organization is already there. But then he abandons it.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Isn't it completely canon that people ate bad meat, became zombies, and then forgot about it after the military intervened?

    And then served the same meat the next year?

  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    wow my friends are trapped, time to fix the problem. the whole episode is about his friends.

    but yeah you used filter like 'filter what you say' in that other post, then used it the way you just described.

    it's also sort of unfair for you to develop this whole perception of abed and then blame the show for not keeping up with it (even though it does... my post goes through the exact formula you mentioned about last year's christmas although you didn't directly reply to that)

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    when he tried to start a new ritual (happy christmas with his friends) and it was taken away (freak glee club director who he has to save his friends from) he regressed to find a new one (inspector space time, NOT waiting for cops)

    edit - I feel like you're using filter in 2 different ways in that post.

    Filters, structure, organization, etc. A filter is basically saying, "Some pieces of information are important, and some pieces aren't." Abed has trouble making that distinction. He takes in information without an intuitive sense of meaning. That's why the real world makes no sense to Abed. That's why his Halloween story includes details that most people find unimportant, like the time between turning on the radio and hearing the key broadcast. He relies on TV and movies for structure, because that's what he's used to. But in chicken fingers, he no longer needs that, because he finds structure in chicken. In D&D, he finds structure in the game. So the idea that "Abed can only connect to people through TV and movies" is actually a misconception. That's the method he's most familiar with, but it's not literally the only way. What he really wants is less the movie itself, and more the structure that movie gives him.

    In this episode, Abed's brain is already primed for, "Wow, Glee Club director is crazy, time to fix the problem." The organization is already there. But then he abandons it.

    The problem isn't "Glee club director is crazy" it is "my friends are under the spell of Glee." His actions fixed that problem by breaking the spell.

    I don't even think the Glee club director was relevant to Abed. All that was relevant was that his friends were under a spell he wasn't affected by and he needed to wake them from it.

    And you've argued that Abed has no filter. So why isn't it consistent for him to treat disappointment at another failed Christmas as more important than anything else? That was his only focus in this episode.

    Drez on
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Isn't it completely canon that people ate bad meat, became zombies, and then forgot about it after the military intervened?

    And then served the same meat the next year?

    Harmon already admitted that he stretched credibility a lot with that episode, so he acknowledged the problem.

    And that the reason for giving everyone amnesia was so that it would have no impact on the characters, other than the pregnancy scare.

    http://www.avclub.com/articles/dan-harmon-walks-us-through-communitys-second-seas,57085/
    DH: We spent a good month breaking that story in every conceivable other way. We came up with every clever way you could justify zombies on a community college campus and exhausted all of them. The one with the longest shelf life was an experimental pharmaceutical that was being overprescribed.

    We broke that story, and it was like dog paddling through mud, and it just felt like cleverness for the sake of cleverness. The story just kept being dead weight, like a child that doesn’t want to leave a party and goes limp. We can move it because we’re bigger than it, but there’s something wrong. And there was a point where I said, “What is our nightmare? What is the biggest sin that we’re not supposed to be committing here? What started us down the road of thinking of ways to do a zombie movie without doing a zombie movie? What happens in our zombie movie that can’t happen in our sitcom?” Easy answer: People die. Okay, absolutely right. But how much of the zombie motif has to do with people dying? Well, a lot. It’s about diminishing numbers, but the reason numbers diminish is because when you die you become a zombie. What if you became a zombie just by being bitten? And it went down this road very quickly. And that was late in the game. If we hadn’t spent a month doing stupid Prozac metaphors, God only knows what could have happened with that episode.

    But I knew the whole time that this was further than we’d ever gone. The litmus test I used to prove that was to run through every episode in both seasons and picture myself reading the events that take place in the story in the local paper. I ran “Modern Warfare” through that. I ran chicken fingers through that. There was a shortage of chicken fingers on campus, and some kid took over the supply and was selling chicken fingers for favors. Whatever! Why did this make the paper? It was on page eight. There was a paintball game that got out of hand. Somebody built a fire in the cafeteria to warm their hands because the power went out. A guy set off a dye pack, and there were Die Hard themes. Again, it sounds interesting, but if I’m more than a city away, it’s not even in the paper. The military is covering up an experimental bio-weapon in the form of a rabies virus that spreads through bites and turns people into zombies and it was accidentally served at a Halloween party. Yeah. It’s on the cover of Time. [Laughs.] No matter where it happened. It could have happened at the North Pole, and you’d be reading about it.

    Here’s why that’s dangerous. It doesn’t really have anything to do with not believing Peter Pan can fly and now you’ve damaged the fabric of the universe. That’s not the case, because a sitcom is a fucking constant violation of all reality. That’s the point of it. It’s an opiate. You are experiencing life as life is not. In the most successful ones, you’re literally hearing 150 people laughing when you’re supposed to laugh. It has nothing to do with whether something’s believable. What it has to do with is protecting the characters’ minds within the canon. The simple example is, I don’t wanna be breaking an episode in season five where Britta is arguing with Jeff over the remote and having this thing looming over my shoulder where anybody can stop this argument at any time and say, “Britta, why are we arguing about this? The military is lying to the people it’s supposed to protect. The Pentagon invaded our campus, and it was going to murder us. We were zombies!”

    So when I narrowed it down to that being the thing that was the biggest threat, I came up with the forgivable if obvious solution of amnesia, of just going, “Well, if you’re not yourself when you’re on this stuff, it’s not that big a deal to say that when you go back to being yourself, you weren’t collecting memories.” Actually, there’s some logic there. It’s not necessarily a Bold And The Beautiful contrivance to say, “Well, you wake up from a roofie. You don’t remember.” And more importantly, even if it did feel contrived, I felt like it was a noble contrivance because I don’t want these people living in a world where that’s on the table.

    It largely had to do with this feeling that drove the whole second season, which was, I have this feeling that I’m not gonna be around next year. I’m either gonna be fired or the show’s not gonna be on the air. In either case, I’m never gonna be on NBC at 8 p.m. on Thursday night ever again. This happens to how many people in the last 30 years? And it’s Halloween? I’ve gotta do this. I will drive past this campus every day for the rest of my life and get a sour stomach if I don’t do a zombie episode for Halloween. If you told me I had a six-year order of episodes, I could probably see my way to not pollute my show with such fantasy. But it had to be done. [Laughs.]

    The writers went through a lot of work to make the zombie episode work. And that's the thing: They tried. My problem with 3x10 is that it feels like they gave up.

    Literally, 3 seconds of Chang chasing after the teacher in the background or Abed saying, "I'll call the police on the way out" would have made a huge difference. They didn't do anything like that, and it feels lazy.

    People can make all the excuses they want on why the episode didn't need this. But is there any reason at all not to include some acknowledgement? If we spotted Chang running after the teacher in the background, what exactly would the episode have lost?

    On Annie acting out of character in Rocket Science:
    This is the hardest one to solve, because it came from the best of intentions. From the get-go, we said, “Well, crazy episode. They’re in a spaceship. Why is this not just a stupid, stylistic, masturbatory, spoofy thing?” In other words, and the thing we always say is, “What’s the Jeff and Britta fucking of this paintball?” And the answer was perceived as forced by the audience and critics, which is that Annie just reveals that she’s the spy. She’s like the equivalent of a Russian spy aboard the spaceship because she’s been thinking about leaving Greendale this whole time, and it was understandably perceived as like, “Why the fuck are you forcing that on me just to tell a stupid story like that?”

    I haven’t watched that episode since. I haven’t watched any of them since they’ve aired. If the second season is like the first season, I’ll come out of the DVD commentary realizing this is a great show. But that’s the stigma I have against that episode. I feel like I fucked it from outside, and it’s a victim.

    On the teacher shooting himself:
    And I killed it. NBC didn’t want to do it, but I didn’t push back. And I think the writers were a little mad, like they thought I sold them out. But it just wasn’t Abed’s character. If he knows someone is blowing their brains out and he had a hand in it, he wouldn’t not care. That’s not Abed. I think some people were genuinely disappointed that I wasn’t punk-rock enough to endorse that storyline. But I felt that that didn’t pass my own Standards & Practices. That’s just not Abed.

    Schrodinger on
  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    the reason is abed's first reaction was to leave upset and then the scene ends

    edit - them not showing 3 seconds of footage = giving up. WOW.

    Variable on
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  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    this is such a different thing to justify than goddamn zombies. to compare them is ridiculous.

    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    I think this is actually crazier than killing a glee club

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    People can make all the excuses they want on why the episode didn't need this. But is there any reason at all not to include some acknowledgement? If we spotted Chang running after the teacher in the background, what exactly would the episode have lost?

    Wasn't your argument specifically that it was out of character for Abed not to comment? Now you're talking about Chang.

    So I will repeat/rephrase my earlier question: Why is it necessary for this to be resolved on camera, in the manner you believe it needed to be? What internal consistency did the episode violate by not having a character apprehend the Glee club teacher? Your answer before was about Abed. Since you are now talking about Chang, your earlier answer was inadequate.

    Also, what happens when they make some kind of reference to the Glee club director being arrested or whatever in one of the post-hiatus episodes. Will that exonerate the writers and characters in your eyes?

    Drez on
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  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    except we've established a way that this entirely makes sense within abed's character. in that post where I used your formula for last years christmas and related it to this years.

    edit - from hours ago, maybe the reason you didn't notice it at first but had a problem on subsequent viewings is because you were looking for proof it was bad so you were reaching? just a thought.

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    The problem isn't "Glee club director is crazy" it is "my friends are under the spell of Glee." His actions fixed that problem by breaking the spell.

    I don't even think the Glee club director was relevant to Abed. All that was relevant was that his friends were under a spell he wasn't affected by and he needed to wake them from it.

    And you've argued that Abed has no filter. So why isn't it consistent for him to treat disappointment at another failed Christmas as more important than anything else? That was his only focus in this episode.

    "I usually have one foot outside of reality, and even I'm freaking out right now."

    Abed has a problem with arbitrary distinction. Which is why he failed at Duck/Duck/Goose and why he had trouble picking a side on the see-saw. He's fine when distinction and organization is self-evident, like "Hey, Annie chloroformed the guard, that's bad" or "Hey, mass murderer. Loss of human life. Pretty important."

    Also, we actually see his shocked reaction when the teacher mentions cutting the brake line. So obviously it registered. He simply chooses to ignore it.

  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    he reacts to the admission, then jeff says something and the more pressing issue of 'I've ruined christmas for my friends' comes through this 'filter' you've constructed for abed.

    it's this whole thing you've built up about abed and the best part is this even works within it! and yet, no you just can't believe it

    edit - I'm gonna have to watch the episode where jeff is swinging the axe around. he mentions it in this episode at the end as a sign that they've gone to a 'dark' place. hopefully everyone acts in line... if abed doesn't disarm him I'm going to be very concerned. (heh, he might I really don't remember)

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    Wasn't your argument specifically that it was out of character for Abed not to comment? Now you're talking about Chang.

    The problem is that Abed changes the subject and leaves without any attempt to resolve the problem.

    If Abed had seen Chang chase after the guy and stayed behind for the police to question him afterward, then you could argue, "Well, Abed knew that Chang would either catch up to the guy, or call the police. So all he had to do was wait for the police to show up."

    But not only does Abed witness no one taking action, but then we see Abed go home, as if the storyline has been resolved.
    So I will repeat/rephrase my earlier question: Why is it necessary for this to be resolved on camera, in the manner you believe it needed to be?

    The problem isn't simply that they didn't resolve it on camera. The problem is that they closed the door on it, by having Abed change the subject and leave.
    What internal consistency did the episode violate by not having a character apprehend the Glee club teacher?
    Your answer before was about Abed. Since you are now talking about Chang, your earlier answer was inadequate.

    Chang wasn't there. I'm not complaining that Chang was out of character. I'm complaining that they could have literally added a 3 second scene where we see Chang chasing after the teacher in the background, and we would know that actions were being taken. Since we see Chang at the beginning of the episode, it's not like he was unavailable. The fact that they neglected to do even that much shows that the writers were being lazy.
    Also, what happens when they make some kind of reference to the Glee club director being arrested or whatever in one of the post-hiatus episodes. Will that exonerate the writers and characters in your eyes?

    It wouldn't change the fact that Abed walked away without giving the situation a second thought.

  • CambiataCambiata I'm an alchemist and the beat is my base metal Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote:
    MegaMan001 wrote:
    Finally saw this episode. It was great. The rap, awesome. Annie's song to Jeff, hilarious, especially when she just breaks down into trying to eat mistletoe. Britta singing her hearts song of "Me so happy me so happy!", awesome.

    You guys have so much hate.

    Eh, in this thread at least it appears that only Schrodinger really hated it. It only seems like there's more hate because he keeps insisting that because he dislikes it that means that no one should have liked it.

    No, what annoys me is that you keep claiming that I am the only person who disliked this episode. When I'm not.

    1) This is the only post I've made mention of it and 2) I never said you were the only one that disliked the episode. I said you were the only one who hated it.

    Maybe that's not enough distinction for you, so I'll break it down - everyone else who disliked it just said "this episode didn't work for me" and more or less shrugged their shoulders and moved on. The same thing that has happened on many an episode before this one that some people didn't like. Whereas you've been going on for pages and pages about why it's a terrible episode and we're terrible people for liking it and OH MY GOD THE WORLD IS ENDING. I wish you would just, I dunno, go to your therapist or smoke a doobie or do whatever it is you normally do to wind yourself down once you start having these little attacks. Because this is getting downright silly.

    -Tal wrote:
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  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    so you need closure and therefor abed must need closure

    but abed was focused on his friends

    I get that' he's your favorite but do you not see that this is pinning a lot on him? and limits what he's allowed to do in any given situation pretty severely?

    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    he reacts to the admission, then jeff says something and the more pressing issue of 'I've ruined christmas for my friends' comes through this 'filter' you've constructed for abed.

    it's this whole thing you've built up about abed and the best part is this even works within it! and yet, no you just can't believe it

    edit - I'm gonna have to watch the episode where jeff is swinging the axe around. he mentions it in this episode at the end as a sign that they've gone to a 'dark' place. hopefully everyone acts in line... if abed doesn't disarm him I'm going to be very concerned. (heh, he might I really don't remember)

    Abed joins the rest of the group running away from Jeff. He doesn't simply change the subject and walk away, even though that particular action would have made a lot more sense in that scenario since Jeff was only attacking the table and not the other members (and he left the ax in the table when he was done.).

    Heck, in the pilot, Jeff names a pencil "Steve" and breaks it in half. Abed gasps in horror.

  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    abed isn't changing the subject when he says his line. at all. it's a reaction to what JUST HAPPENED. that's the opposite of changing the subject.

    and the phrasing "simply change the subject and walk away" really makes me think you don't appreciate that the entire episode is about him trying to make a merry christmas for his friends.

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
    Sig%20-%20Reggie%20Watts.png
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    when he tried to start a new ritual (happy christmas with his friends) and it was taken away (freak glee club director who he has to save his friends from) he regressed to find a new one (inspector space time, NOT waiting for cops)

    Yeah, you're just relying on circular logic there.

    "Abed didn't call the cops because he created a reality of not calling the cops."

    We could justify the alternate ending of the suicide episode for the same reason. "Abed didn't care about a teacher blowing his brains out because he created a reality of not caring about teachers blowing their brains out."

    You haven't explained why this particular reality is actually consistent with his character.

  • VariableVariable Stroke Me Lady Fame Registered User regular
    um, because he's looking for a new christmas ritual?

    Variable on
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" - Dr. Johnson
    Sig%20-%20Reggie%20Watts.png
  • TexiKenTexiKen Registered User regular
    Argggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



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