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UK study suggests that mainstream men's magazines normalize hostile sexism

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    a rape is not a violent attack?

    No, not every rape includes the use of violent force (example from someone I used to chat online with: girl falls asleep on a couch next to a guy. She wakes up to find him groping her, with his hand down her pants. That's pretty definitely rape, but it didn't involve an attack or (arguably) sadistic intent).

    With Love and Courage
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Arch wrote:
    HamHamJ wrote:
    Feral wrote:
    HamHamJ wrote:
    And maybe serial rapists are an entirely different species than acquaintance rape.

    Date rapists tend to repeat their behavior, too.

    But as far as I know, they generally do not move on to stalking women in parks at night. And the latter sort don't really do date rape.

    This is, unfortunately a non-sequitor. I am not saying this to single you out particularly, but it is pretty well established that the majority of rapes (statistics point to about 2/3) were committed not by some violent stalker in the park at night.

    As RAINN succinctly put it (and PLEASE don't use this as a springboard for the downplaying of female perpetrated rape) : "He's not hiding in the bushes."

    This has been a theme in this thread from what I have noticed- that people seem to be drawing a distinction between the garish portrayal made popular by the media (the scary man in a trenchcoat who hunts down nubile young women) and the reality (that most rapes...73%!) are perpetrated by friends of the victim.

    Yes, violent "attack in the park" rapes DO occur, but they are far from the majority. If memory serves, the study from 2002 Feral linked also mentioned this, and it was telling that the investigators could find, on college campuses, people who had raped multiple partners.

    Right, but they DO occur. HamHamJ made no comments on their frequency at all so why is that relevant to his point?

    People are drawing a distinction because one exists. Their relative frequencies isn't really at issue in that discussion at all.

    Now, you could say the distinction is irrelevant vis a vis the psychology of the perpetrator. Which it certainly could be.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote:
    Thanks to the groundbreaking work of notable theorist Whoopi Goldberg, we now know that there's rape, and then there's rape-rape.

    Let's be clear about that: Goldberg was talking about Polanski's case, where he provided a minor with some alcohol and then forced himself on her while she told him to stop, and contrasting that with the crimes committed by Charles Manson (who raped & murdered Polanski's pregnant wife during a home invasion & killing spree).

    It should also be clear the Whoopi was very obviously trying to imply that Polanski wasn't that bad because, hey, he wasn't Charles Manson!

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    The Ender wrote:
    Thanks to the groundbreaking work of notable theorist Whoopi Goldberg, we now know that there's rape, and then there's rape-rape.

    Let's be clear about that: Goldberg was talking about Polanski's case, where he provided a minor with some alcohol and then forced himself on her while she told him to stop, and contrasting that with the crimes committed by Charles Manson (who raped & murdered Polanski's pregnant wife during a home invasion & killing spree).

    Really, rape is a violation of consent, and we all know that there's a difference between getting old people drunk and fast-talking them into signing away their stuff to you and holding up a gun to an old person's head and beating him until he signs the document and then eating him.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    I should say that I have some sympathy for Polanski's case: the man was no doubt completely fucked-up by what happened to his wife, and it looked as though the judge was going to lock him up in the same detention center where they keep Manson.


    Nobody should defend what he did or (as some people did) insist that the merit of his work should somehow supercede the rape of a 13 year old, but it's clear enough that Dalton was far more interested in a pound of flesh than a just resolution.

    With Love and Courage
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    shryke wrote:
    The Ender wrote:
    Thanks to the groundbreaking work of notable theorist Whoopi Goldberg, we now know that there's rape, and then there's rape-rape.

    Let's be clear about that: Goldberg was talking about Polanski's case, where he provided a minor with some alcohol and then forced himself on her while she told him to stop, and contrasting that with the crimes committed by Charles Manson (who raped & murdered Polanski's pregnant wife during a home invasion & killing spree).

    It should also be clear the Whoopi was very obviously trying to imply that Polanski wasn't that bad because, hey, he wasn't Charles Manson!


    What? Charles Manson didn't murder her and Sharon Tate was NOT raped.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Well, unless you have a pretty restrictive view of what rape is, yes, Tate was raped. Of the four fatal stab wounds she recieved, two were internal wounds inflicted by raping her with a barbeque fork.

    And I don't know of a single modern analysis of the murders that doesn't posit Manson as an active participant.

    With Love and Courage
  • Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The Ender wrote:
    Well, unless you have a pretty restrictive view of what rape is, yes, Tate was raped. Of the four fatal stab wounds she recieved, two were internal wounds inflicted by raping her with a barbeque fork.

    And I don't know of a single modern analysis of the murders that doesn't posit Manson as an active participant.

    What?!? I've read three different books on Helter Skelter for an Abnormal Psyche class project and none of them ever mentioned that. Where are you seeing that exactly? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm curious to see where it came from. Everything I ever read says that the fork was used in the LaBianaca murders, NOT the Tate murders and she certainly wasn't raped in any way shape or form; none of the female victims were. The autopsy report even mentions no evidence was found for it.

    And I've never seen anything that called him an active participant in the Tate murders, he wasn't there. Guilty, yes; participant, no. How can you be an active participant if you were never at the crime scene at the time of the murders? He may have orchestrated and ordered but Susan Atkins or Tex Watson was the one who stabbed her 16 times. I'm just quibbling definition here, by the way, all of them were definitely responsible.

    edit: Also, if you could PM me any links etc that would be appreciated as I think this is getting a little off topic.

    Magic Pink on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Oh, this is charming - VT frat holds a "who would you rape?" survey: http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/us/vermont-rape-survey/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    Needless to say, the school wasn't amused, and the frat is suspended.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    Oh, this is charming - VT frat holds a "who would you rape?" survey: http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/15/us/vermont-rape-survey/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    Needless to say, the school wasn't amused, and the frat is suspended.
    Well, don't leave us hanging. Who did they decide was the most rape-worthy?

    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The Ender wrote:
    a rape is not a violent attack?

    No, not every rape includes the use of violent force (example from someone I used to chat online with: girl falls asleep on a couch next to a guy. She wakes up to find him groping her, with his hand down her pants. That's pretty definitely rape, but it didn't involve an attack or (arguably) sadistic intent).

    Nah, pretty sure that's still violent. Maybe it's not Mel Gibson violent, but violent nonetheless.

    Lilnoobs on
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