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Opinions on this pre-built?

Gigazombie CybermageGigazombie Cybermage Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
Well, since my current computer is slowly dying, dirt old, and with its hard drive full to bursting I decided its time for a new PC. Well, I can't get around it since I need one for doing online papers and projects for my classes next semester. So whatever's left after I pay for my classes and supplies I'm going to use to get: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/HP+-+Pavilion+Desktop+/+AMD+A-Series+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1.5TB+Hard+Drive/3294237.p?skuId=3294237&id=1218391161087

I'm sort of on a budget, though I do already have a video card ready to install (XFX Radeon 6770 HD). I just wish it told me what power supply they have in there. How does it look for the price?

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Posts

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Well, the new AMD CPUs haven't been well received and you are right that the crux of the matter is what kind of PSU they put in there.

    From the user reviews:
    Don't forget that the stock 300W power supply is not sufficient for an advanced Video card

    I think finding a pre-built from a major company that doesn't have a GPU already that has a PSU that can handle even a 6770 isn't going to be easy.

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    (Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    If you're up for building your own $600 would put together something great considering you already have a video card.

    Just looking at stuff and this combo actually looks decent: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.660856
    You'll need a copy of Windows 7 but you can get a discount since you're a student!

    Hard drive prices are so screwed now though, what's your current hard drive size? If it's half-decent I would be tempted to back up stuff and see if you can get by just buying the other parts you need.

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  • Gigazombie CybermageGigazombie Cybermage Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2011
    Oh yeah, 300W isn't near enough. I suppose I'll have to add in a PSU too. :/ What have they been saying about the new cpu's?

    Edit: Vengy, my current hard drive is only 160GB. ;P Oh, and I have no idea how to put together my own PC. The extent of my hardware knowledge stops at pulling stuff out and plugging in different stuff.

    Gigazombie Cybermage on
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  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, 300W isn't near enough. I suppose I'll have to add in a PSU too. :/ What have they been saying about the new cpu's?

    Edit: Vengy, my current hard drive is only 160GB. ;P Oh, and I have no idea how to put together my own PC. The extent of my hardware knowledge stops at pulling stuff out and plugging in different stuff.

    Well, then building a system should be easy for you, since you can skip the pulling stuff out step!

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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    Building a computer is literally plugging shit in to the only place it could possible be plugged into.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • Gigazombie CybermageGigazombie Cybermage Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Don't you have to solder some stuff?

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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, 300W isn't near enough. I suppose I'll have to add in a PSU too. :/ What have they been saying about the new cpu's?

    Edit: Vengy, my current hard drive is only 160GB. ;P Oh, and I have no idea how to put together my own PC. The extent of my hardware knowledge stops at pulling stuff out and plugging in different stuff.

    If you've swapped out components before, you'll be fine to build from scratch. It doesn't get any more difficult than what you've already done.

    Is your current case reusable? There's an extra $50 right there.

    If you can re-use your case, then I would go with:

    HDD) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145565
    MOBO) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157231
    CPU) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074
    RAM) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428
    PSU) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031

    That takes you to $520 so far. Which leaves room to swap some of that stuff out for better/more features if you want. Or a nice $80 case?

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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Don't you have to solder some stuff?

    Not a thing. With a lot of newer cases, you don't even need a screwdriver.

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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    Don't you have to solder some stuff?

    Not a thing. With a lot of newer cases, you don't even need a screwdriver.

    If you can figure out how to hook up a cable box to a TV, you can build a computer. The ONLY maybe hard part, is lining up the CPU with the motherboard and locking it into place. And if you can use a George Foreman grill, you can do that too.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • Gigazombie CybermageGigazombie Cybermage Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Hmmm... I'll have to keep this in mind. Maybe I'll look up some tutorials.

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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular

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  • MrDelishMrDelish Registered User regular
    The "hardest" part is putting thermal paste on the back of the CPU and the feeling that the motherboard is going to break as you're clicking it into place in the case. It's really not that hard to assemble a computer, especially with the computer build thread's denizens to help you with any questions you might have.

  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I'm normally all for pre-builts from Best Buy because that is how I make money but I've had three of these come into the Geek Squad precinct I work at in the past week and a half with the same motherboard issue. Either we got a bad shipment, or all of the units for this series HP produced had a flaw.

    Occasionally you'll see something so cheap that it doesn't make any sense not to buy a pre-built. If you're posting here, you probably have sufficient problem-solving skills to figure out how to put together a unit, though. Keep the cost of the OS in mind if you don't have a spare copy of Windows laying around and you don't want to use Linux, however. A full version of Windows 7 Home Premium should run you around $200 if you don't have a student discount from your school or something, so the build chrishallett quoted you is actually going to be $720. Still not too bad. If you do want to get a pre-built one that will be a bit cheaper (if you don't have a spare OS lying around), I'd recommend something like this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+-+Desktop+/+Intel®+Core™+i5+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3155928.p?id=1218380518359&skuId=3155928 instead of the HP.

    This asus http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop+/+AMD+A-Series+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3237058.p?id=1218388673178&skuId=3237058 would also work out a bit better, I think.

    Both of those have cases that are waaaaay better designed than the HP. The Asus has the same AMD processor, which I'm not sure is a good idea to begin with, but it's got a faster HDD (7200 vs 5400 on the HP). You'll still need a new PSU with either, I believe. Snag that Antec from Newegg for $70 though, and you're still possibly saving $150. The price comparison really hinges on your OS situation.

    In any event, I wouldn't get the HP. Shitty HDD and a good chance it's not going to work out of the box.

    Mai-Kero on
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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
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  • Gigazombie CybermageGigazombie Cybermage Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    I'm normally all for pre-builts from Best Buy because that is how I make money but I've had three of these come into the Geek Squad precinct I work at in the past week and a half with the same motherboard issue. Either we got a bad shipment, or all of the units for this series HP produced had a flaw.

    Occasionally you'll see something so cheap that it doesn't make any sense not to buy a pre-built. If you're posting here, you probably have sufficient problem-solving skills to figure out how to put together a unit, though. Keep the cost of the OS in mind if you don't have a spare copy of Windows laying around and you don't want to use Linux, however. A full version of Windows 7 Home Premium should run you around $200 if you don't have a student discount from your school or something, so the build chrishallett quoted you is actually going to be $720. Still not too bad. If you do want to get a pre-built one that will be a bit cheaper (if you don't have a spare OS lying around), I'd recommend something like this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+-+Desktop+/+Intel®+Core™+i5+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3155928.p?id=1218380518359&skuId=3155928 instead of the HP.

    This asus http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop+/+AMD+A-Series+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3237058.p?id=1218388673178&skuId=3237058 would also work out a bit better, I think.

    Both of those have cases that are waaaaay better designed than the HP. The Asus has the same AMD processor, which I'm not sure is a good idea to begin with, but it's got a faster HDD (7200 vs 5400 on the HP). You'll still need a new PSU with either, I believe. Snag that Antec from Newegg for $70 though, and you're still possibly saving $150. The price comparison really hinges on your OS situation.

    In any event, I wouldn't get the HP. Shitty HDD and a good chance it's not going to work out of the box.

    Seeing the reviews for the Gateway, it doesn't seem that much better. Seems like it isn't expandable to 16GB. You say the mobo with the other ones suck too? Geez... are all prebuilts trash?

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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User

    Yea, what? I paid $80 for mine on sale. I don't know where that $200 figure is coming from.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    I'm normally all for pre-builts from Best Buy because that is how I make money but I've had three of these come into the Geek Squad precinct I work at in the past week and a half with the same motherboard issue. Either we got a bad shipment, or all of the units for this series HP produced had a flaw.

    Occasionally you'll see something so cheap that it doesn't make any sense not to buy a pre-built. If you're posting here, you probably have sufficient problem-solving skills to figure out how to put together a unit, though. Keep the cost of the OS in mind if you don't have a spare copy of Windows laying around and you don't want to use Linux, however. A full version of Windows 7 Home Premium should run you around $200 if you don't have a student discount from your school or something, so the build chrishallett quoted you is actually going to be $720. Still not too bad. If you do want to get a pre-built one that will be a bit cheaper (if you don't have a spare OS lying around), I'd recommend something like this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+-+Desktop+/+Intel®+Core™+i5+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3155928.p?id=1218380518359&skuId=3155928 instead of the HP.

    This asus http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop+/+AMD+A-Series+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3237058.p?id=1218388673178&skuId=3237058 would also work out a bit better, I think.

    Both of those have cases that are waaaaay better designed than the HP. The Asus has the same AMD processor, which I'm not sure is a good idea to begin with, but it's got a faster HDD (7200 vs 5400 on the HP). You'll still need a new PSU with either, I believe. Snag that Antec from Newegg for $70 though, and you're still possibly saving $150. The price comparison really hinges on your OS situation.

    In any event, I wouldn't get the HP. Shitty HDD and a good chance it's not going to work out of the box.

    Seeing the reviews for the Gateway, it doesn't seem that much better. Seems like it isn't expandable to 16GB. You say the mobo with the other ones suck too? Geez... are all prebuilts trash?

    Kinda, yeah. You either get low powered or end of line componentry for a 'reasonable' price, or the good stuff for $Texas.

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  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    Skoal Cat wrote:

    Yea, what? I paid $80 for mine on sale. I don't know where that $200 figure is coming from.
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Windows+7+Home+Premium+-+Windows/9497555.p?id=1218114707064&skuId=9497555&st=windows 7 home premium&lp=1&cp=1

    I was thinking of the actual retail version. I guess the only disadvantage of the OEM license is that he's not technically allowed to transfer it to another PC, although I'm not sure how strict Microsoft is on that.

    nigh.jpg
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    I'm normally all for pre-builts from Best Buy because that is how I make money but I've had three of these come into the Geek Squad precinct I work at in the past week and a half with the same motherboard issue. Either we got a bad shipment, or all of the units for this series HP produced had a flaw.

    Occasionally you'll see something so cheap that it doesn't make any sense not to buy a pre-built. If you're posting here, you probably have sufficient problem-solving skills to figure out how to put together a unit, though. Keep the cost of the OS in mind if you don't have a spare copy of Windows laying around and you don't want to use Linux, however. A full version of Windows 7 Home Premium should run you around $200 if you don't have a student discount from your school or something, so the build chrishallett quoted you is actually going to be $720. Still not too bad. If you do want to get a pre-built one that will be a bit cheaper (if you don't have a spare OS lying around), I'd recommend something like this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+-+Desktop+/+Intel®+Core™+i5+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3155928.p?id=1218380518359&skuId=3155928 instead of the HP.

    This asus http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Essentio+Desktop+/+AMD+A-Series+Processor+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/3237058.p?id=1218388673178&skuId=3237058 would also work out a bit better, I think.

    Both of those have cases that are waaaaay better designed than the HP. The Asus has the same AMD processor, which I'm not sure is a good idea to begin with, but it's got a faster HDD (7200 vs 5400 on the HP). You'll still need a new PSU with either, I believe. Snag that Antec from Newegg for $70 though, and you're still possibly saving $150. The price comparison really hinges on your OS situation.

    In any event, I wouldn't get the HP. Shitty HDD and a good chance it's not going to work out of the box.

    Seeing the reviews for the Gateway, it doesn't seem that much better. Seems like it isn't expandable to 16GB. You say the mobo with the other ones suck too? Geez... are all prebuilts trash?

    Kinda, yeah. You either get low powered or end of line componentry for a 'reasonable' price, or the good stuff for $Texas.

    I would say trash, really. They're just not really for people that want to upgrade much. The industry doesn't really plan around upgrade-able components, it would rather you buy another machine a few years from now.

    nigh.jpg
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Mai-Kero wrote: »
    Skoal Cat wrote:

    Yea, what? I paid $80 for mine on sale. I don't know where that $200 figure is coming from.
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Windows+7+Home+Premium+-+Windows/9497555.p?id=1218114707064&skuId=9497555&st=windows 7 home premium&lp=1&cp=1

    I was thinking of the actual retail version. I guess the only disadvantage of the OEM license is that he's not technically allowed to transfer it to another PC, although I'm not sure how strict Microsoft is on that.

    Windows 8 is coming out next year, so he'll probably be more likely to upgrade to that rather than reinstall 7 on his next p.c.?

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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    Seeing the reviews for the Gateway, it doesn't seem that much better. Seems like it isn't expandable to 16GB. You say the mobo with the other ones suck too? Geez... are all prebuilts trash?

    They aren't trash, they just aren't designed to be mucked with beyond maybe adding RAM and a HDD. They are specced out to be able to reliably run what's installed for a year or 2 for the absolute cheapest pricepoint. So the PSU is usually not a nice 80plus PSU, and is sized to just what the computer needs (no headroom for a nice GPU upgrade). The mobo is never an off-the-shelf retail board and is the lowest number of layers to deliver the capabilities desired, so BIOS/firmwares* aren't released as often, there's no compelling reason for these boards to support CPUs or functionality that didn't originally ship for the OEM, and OC capabilities are compromised if present at all. You may get de-contented chipsets or lesser OEM CPUs that aren't available in the retail channel (all to get the price down). There may be proprietary cooling systems you have to deal with to get at the CPU.

    Some of the OEM gaming-centric systems (e.g. Alienware) might have decent PSU's and better motherboards and cases, but if you're trying to turn a budget-oriented consumer system into a higher-end gaming system, be prepared to deal with some hurdles.


    *That Gateway not taking 16GB for example. With a retail motherboard that would probably get sorted out with a BIOS update, with some OEM board Gateway who knows when and if it'll get sorted?

  • TheCanManTheCanMan Registered User regular
    Just for a bit of piece of mind, I just built a PC for the first time over the weekend. It took ~3hrs to get all the parts together (and most of that time was reading, playing around with cable routing options, and deciding how to mount my 2.5" SSD since I didn't have a 3.5" bracket). It really is as easy as everyone says it is. Just take your time and it's pretty much idiot proof.

    One tip I saw that came in pretty handy is to use a piece of paper to make a template of your motherboard's standoff pattern. That way you can be sure that everything lines up the way it's supposed to.

    The other suggested tip that I'd say is almost a necessity (for a new build anyway) is to put the CPU and cooler onto your motherboard BEFORE you attach it to your case. That way you can support the motherboard much better when you're pushing down on it while attaching the CPU cooler. Everyone says how scary that part is, but I wasn't scared in the least.

    And if you have a .edu email address (to prove that you're a student), you can get Win7 Professional for $65.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote:
    Don't you have to solder some stuff?

    Not a thing. With a lot of newer cases, you don't even need a screwdriver.

    If you can figure out how to hook up a cable box to a TV, you can build a computer. The ONLY maybe hard part, is lining up the CPU with the motherboard and locking it into place. And if you can use a George Foreman grill, you can do that too.

    That, and inserting the individual pin contacts into the motherboard--the tiny ones that are still extremely common for some stupid bullshit reason. Hope you've got really long tweezers or really thin, long hands.

    Also, diagnosing a dud. But that may or may not happen--god willing, of course, it doesn't.

    It's gotten a lot easier, but with my own astigmatism and my lack of free time, I'm pretty much exclusively "case w/ motherboard" at this point. That being said, a lot of people will enjoy that 5 hours (or whatever) just for the experience--I've done enough times to know I hate doing it (to me, it's like building a model aircraft, except with extremely expensive and sometimes extremely sensitive components), and with the added possibility that a certain part has decided not to work.

    If you like it, by all means. If you don't, there are a lot of shortcuts...from the exact same companies that you would buy the parts from anyway, at the same price.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Well, the new AMD CPUs haven't been well received and you are right that the crux of the matter is what kind of PSU they put in there.

    From the user reviews:
    Don't forget that the stock 300W power supply is not sufficient for an advanced Video card

    I think finding a pre-built from a major company that doesn't have a GPU already that has a PSU that can handle even a 6770 isn't going to be easy.

    The new AMD CPU's havent been well recieved because they aren't any more powerful than the ones that were already on the market. I have a 1090T @ 3.8 ghz and it performs in the same league i the vast majority of apps as the new 8 core variant in the same speed range. But at a lot less of the cost. i have 6 cores instead of 8 but whoopdie do nothing even uses 4 these days other than encoding.

    Buut back on topic. The above posters are right, build your own PC. You will save yourself money and you will get a better PC out of it. You already have a video card so the rest shouldnt be a problem at all.

    Elimination on
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  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote:
    Skoal Cat wrote:
    Don't you have to solder some stuff?

    Not a thing. With a lot of newer cases, you don't even need a screwdriver.

    If you can figure out how to hook up a cable box to a TV, you can build a computer. The ONLY maybe hard part, is lining up the CPU with the motherboard and locking it into place. And if you can use a George Foreman grill, you can do that too.

    That, and inserting the individual pin contacts into the motherboard--the tiny ones that are still extremely common for some stupid bullshit reason. Hope you've got really long tweezers or really thin, long hands.

    Also, diagnosing a dud. But that may or may not happen--god willing, of course, it doesn't.

    It's gotten a lot easier, but with my own astigmatism and my lack of free time, I'm pretty much exclusively "case w/ motherboard" at this point. That being said, a lot of people will enjoy that 5 hours (or whatever) just for the experience--I've done enough times to know I hate doing it (to me, it's like building a model aircraft, except with extremely expensive and sometimes extremely sensitive components), and with the added possibility that a certain part has decided not to work.

    If you like it, by all means. If you don't, there are a lot of shortcuts...from the exact same companies that you would buy the parts from anyway, at the same price.

    I somewhat take objection to the model aircraft comparison. Building a PC is actually easier in my opinion because unlike a model aircraft, nothing has to be glued.

    1Slimus.jpg
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Gaslight wrote:
    Synthesis wrote:
    Skoal Cat wrote:
    Don't you have to solder some stuff?

    Not a thing. With a lot of newer cases, you don't even need a screwdriver.

    If you can figure out how to hook up a cable box to a TV, you can build a computer. The ONLY maybe hard part, is lining up the CPU with the motherboard and locking it into place. And if you can use a George Foreman grill, you can do that too.

    That, and inserting the individual pin contacts into the motherboard--the tiny ones that are still extremely common for some stupid bullshit reason. Hope you've got really long tweezers or really thin, long hands.

    Also, diagnosing a dud. But that may or may not happen--god willing, of course, it doesn't.

    It's gotten a lot easier, but with my own astigmatism and my lack of free time, I'm pretty much exclusively "case w/ motherboard" at this point. That being said, a lot of people will enjoy that 5 hours (or whatever) just for the experience--I've done enough times to know I hate doing it (to me, it's like building a model aircraft, except with extremely expensive and sometimes extremely sensitive components), and with the added possibility that a certain part has decided not to work.

    If you like it, by all means. If you don't, there are a lot of shortcuts...from the exact same companies that you would buy the parts from anyway, at the same price.

    I somewhat take objection to the model aircraft comparison. Building a PC is actually easier in my opinion because unlike a model aircraft, nothing has to be glued.

    In that case, I'd somewhat object to that--a model airplane is easier, because many of the most complex models will not need any gluing. This is particularly true for Japanese and Taiwanese non-powered models, and not for American models, for some reason. Lots of complex models require no gluing, from snapping together parts to small screws to simple sockets that hold by friction for small models.

    Compared to building any PC, which at least involves screwing in the motherboard always. Plus, even the most sketchy model manufacturer's product having a particular part that flat out doesn't work is several times better than the chance of running into a dud among motherboards, RAM modules, GPUs and CPUs (and other peripherals). Doubly so if you bought a sketchy model or from a sketchy seller.

    There's a reason I didn't say "painting a model". Is it possible to build a screw-free PC? I certainly can't think of a case that doesn't require motherboard screws at hte very least.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    Screws are difficult?

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • TefTef Registered User regular
    Screws can be a mild annoyance when they're that little and there's a big old fan getting in the way. Having big ham-hands probably doesn't help either

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Having a heatink or the wall of case division in your way can be an annoying, and in some cases, immovable object in your way.

    I don't think using model glue is hard, but hey, some people do.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Aaron Hernandez shot me through the heartRegistered User regular
    Mai-Kero wrote: »
    Skoal Cat wrote:

    Yea, what? I paid $80 for mine on sale. I don't know where that $200 figure is coming from.
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Windows+7+Home+Premium+-+Windows/9497555.p?id=1218114707064&skuId=9497555&st=windows 7 home premium&lp=1&cp=1

    I was thinking of the actual retail version. I guess the only disadvantage of the OEM license is that he's not technically allowed to transfer it to another PC, although I'm not sure how strict Microsoft is on that.

    Windows 8 is coming out next year, so he'll probably be more likely to upgrade to that rather than reinstall 7 on his next p.c.?

    I'd figure in a few things before the W8 installation:

    Is the W8 launch version going to be like Vista or ME in its bugs? Price point? I find it better to wait on new versions of Windows for many reasons.

    Microsoft is "sort of" strict in their licensing, but the general rule is that with a single-license version of Windows it can only be on 1 PC at a time. If you're upgrading PC's in order to replace an older one, the new one can have your old copy of Windows. You may need to call MS customer service and they'll throw a new product key at you but that's a quick and rather painless process.

    Spoiler:
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