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When should a game series end?

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Posts

  • GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff Registered User regular
    The one thing we gotta remember when going "there aren't any new IPs anymore!", is that all these sequels were at one point new IPs. Just something I thought about while reading through the thread that I don't think anybody mentioned.

    I'm not sure what that contributes though. I guess I'll say I don't have issues with new games as long as there some time and innovation between iterations. I can't imagine coughing up the dough for the new CoD every year. And I don't. Cuz I don't like them. But my point is that those games are out every year and I can't imagine there's as much innovation as there should be. But I may be ignorant to the facts there.

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  • Zoku GojiraZoku Gojira Registered User regular
    When the next installment is going to be a franchise reboot that attempts to fix what was wrong with the last installment, which also happened to be a disastrous franchise reboot.

    When the next installment is going to be packaged with the original, not as a Limited Edition but because that's the only reason anyone will buy it.

    When the hook is that the once-affable protagonist is now an emo extreme sports fanatic.

    When the hook is that they're taking emphasis off the driving in a driving game.

    "The universe is change, life is opinion." - Marcus Aurelius
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Plenty of them do, but also have sequels. A good example is the Avatar cartoon series. It resolves very nicely, tells the story it needed to tell, but there is a sequel set 200 years later coming out in the nearish future that I have high hopes for.

    Actually, The Legend of Korra only takes place ~60 years or so after the first Avatar series.
    Spoiler:

    On topic - I think Henroid's answer is the best so far. It all depends on the games' genre, plot, and overall prestige. There's no answer for all franchises. Instead, they need to be looked at individually.

    If I were to name a series that, at the very least, needs to get to the point, it would be Assassin's Creed. Far too much time spent in the same era, and not enough of the meta-plot explained.

    On the opposite side, I'd love to see a new Chrono game. SE has ported the original to a variety of devices lately, and it would be nice to see them recognize that they have the licence to more than just Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

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  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Alright, I'll bite at guessing the corresponding franchises!

    When the next installment is going to be a franchise reboot that attempts to fix what was wrong with the last installment, which also happened to be a disastrous franchise reboot.

    Sonic the Hedgehog?

    When the next installment is going to be packaged with the original, not as a Limited Edition but because that's the only reason anyone will buy it.

    Don't know this one.

    When the hook is that the once-affable protagonist is now an emo extreme sports fanatic.

    Pretty sure this is Prince of Persia.

    When the hook is that they're taking emphasis off the driving in a driving game.

    This has to be Need for Speed.

    Rehab on
  • -Tal-Tal They be ballin' in the D league I be speakin' SwaghiliRegistered User regular
    I think the second one refers to Arkham City, which is not a bad game??

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  • AuburnTigerAuburnTiger Registered User regular
    I was gonna say that the second one was Alice: Madness Returns, but I think that one was a limited edition.

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    I should've elaborated on something in my post; another thing that matters is intent. It probably matters most. Are the developers intending to appease the diehard fans, the stock holders, or turn around their / the IP's image?

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  • Zoku GojiraZoku Gojira Registered User regular
    Wasn't referring to Batman or Alice, those were actual good follow-ups to the original. Now that I think about it, can't remember any solid examples.

    "The universe is change, life is opinion." - Marcus Aurelius
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    I guess the point a franchise should stop is when the game you're making has no reason to carry the name other than to attract/defraud a captive fanbase.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    When the gameplay stops advancing with each iteration and becomes derivative.
    In some cases (for example shadow of the collosus) the actual gameplay may be strongly tied up with the narrative and atmosphere of the story, in which case you can still look at it from a gameplay perspective if you include those things.

    I'm roughly ten million percent gameplay focused though. For example, imagine a game with a plot and story so compelling, so interesting, that then ends its arc with, I don't know, something incredibly final and satisfying.

    IF they brought out another installment that had excellent gameplay and the story was lip service I would still think it 100% worthwhile as a game. So best to keep that in mind when dealing with me.

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  • DraguscloudDraguscloud Registered User regular
    When the next installment is going to be packaged with the original, not as a Limited Edition but because that's the only reason anyone will buy it.

    Riddick

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  • JackKieserJackKieser Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote:
    I should've elaborated on something in my post; another thing that matters is intent. It probably matters most. Are the developers intending to appease the diehard fans, the stock holders, or turn around their / the IP's image?

    See, the problem with this (and with some of your original points) is that it has nothing to do with the actual game / IP it's dealing with. After all, it assumes that publishers / fans even know what's good for them; look at series like Tony Hawk / Guitar Hero, or the Sonic franchise. Many times, the whims of either a bunch of people who's only interest in an IP is money or the whims of a mob with no knowledge of formal game design is not how the future of an IP should be dealt with.

    Sure, there WILL be exceptions. Publishers will get lucky extending an IP past its prime. Sometimes, the mob gets things right. On the whole, though, that's why I think the 3-part system I posted last page is strong: because it focuses solely on the IP and its design / purpose. Bringing in random variables like the desires of fans or publishers FEELS nice, because we want to feel like our desires matter, but artistically, it harms more than helps.

    Spoiler:
  • -Tal-Tal They be ballin' in the D league I be speakin' SwaghiliRegistered User regular
    When the next installment is going to be packaged with the original, not as a Limited Edition but because that's the only reason anyone will buy it.

    Riddick

    but Riddick is actually an awesome game

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  • RakaiRakai Registered User regular
    There needs to be more Riddick games.

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  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote:
    When the next installment is going to be packaged with the original, not as a Limited Edition but because that's the only reason anyone will buy it.

    Riddick

    but Riddick is actually an awesome game
    Eh I really couldn't recommend Dark Athena if it didn't come with a Butcher Bay remake.

    (But it does, so keep your eye out for steam sales and whatnot!)

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  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Okay so, how about naming a series that looked to be brimming with potential and that you looked forward to after hearing about a sequel to the first game, only for things to go horribly awry?

    I myself would have to go with Viewtiful Joe for the Franchise Fuckup Award.

    Rehab on
  • -Tal-Tal They be ballin' in the D league I be speakin' SwaghiliRegistered User regular
    Red Faction Armageddon

    Guerrilla so good how did they destroy the entire series

    yK8ftCf.png
  • HewnHewn Registered User regular
    I never want the Elder Scrolls to end. I want to be 90, in the old folks home, asking the nurse to turn up the speaker volume so I can figure out how to start the Dark Brotherhood quests.

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    When should a game series end?

    Realistically: When it stops making money

    Personal opinion: When it stops being fun.

    Fairy-land reason: Because the last game in the series was so fucking awesome there is no way to top it.

    -Tal wrote:
    Red Faction Armageddon

    Guerrilla so good how did they destroy the entire series

    It makes me sad to agree with this. I wonder if the two games were actually made by the same team, since there seems to have been some disconnect on what makes Red Faction awesome.

    Hint: generic brown tunnels is not what made Red Faction awesome.

    Axen on
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    Axen wrote:
    Fairy-land reason: Because the last game in the series was so fucking awesome there is no way to top it.

    I can think of a few examples offhand where this line of thinking would have been enormously detrimental though. Unless that is what you were going for there and its a bad fairyland, of course.

  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    Sumanai wrote:
    Unfortunately franchises almost never end on a high note because publishers always try to milk it until it fails miserably or they stop being profitable.

    This happens in games, tv shows, films, etc. more and more nowadays. It's sad to see certain great games/shows being dragged for years until it just ends in the mud.

    Not in High Art. Too bad Videogames don't fall into High Art.
    :rotate:

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    For m its quite simple. A franchise does not encompass only one story. For example, the story of the first deus ex game was self contained. It did leave room for a sequel, but did not force one. More games have been set in the same world, but they too are selfcontained stories.

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  • KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    Rehab wrote:
    Alright, I'll bite at guessing the corresponding franchises!

    When the next installment is going to be a franchise reboot that attempts to fix what was wrong with the last installment, which also happened to be a disastrous franchise reboot.

    Sonic the Hedgehog?

    When the next installment is going to be packaged with the original, not as a Limited Edition but because that's the only reason anyone will buy it.

    Don't know this one.

    When the hook is that the once-affable protagonist is now an emo extreme sports fanatic.

    Pretty sure this is Prince of Persia.

    When the hook is that they're taking emphasis off the driving in a driving game.

    This has to be Need for Speed.


    I'm thinking the one you couldn't pick out would be White Knight Chronicles.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Lilnoobs wrote:
    Sumanai wrote:
    Unfortunately franchises almost never end on a high note because publishers always try to milk it until it fails miserably or they stop being profitable.

    This happens in games, tv shows, films, etc. more and more nowadays. It's sad to see certain great games/shows being dragged for years until it just ends in the mud.

    Not in High Art. Too bad Videogames don't fall into High Art.
    :rotate:

    I can't think of an art medium that isn't affected by this. Shit, even paintings come in series.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Rehab wrote:
    Axen wrote:
    Fairy-land reason: Because the last game in the series was so fucking awesome there is no way to top it.

    I can think of a few examples offhand where this line of thinking would have been enormously detrimental though. Unless that is what you were going for there and its a bad fairyland, of course.

    I was thinking more along the lines of Seinfeld, get out at the top of your game. The fairyland part is of course the fact that that would never happen because of the monies to be made.

    It seems to me, more often that not, that if a Dev/Publisher (whoever makes these calls) has a hot franchise on their hands, they will milk the shit out of it until all that remains is a broken shell of the awesome it used to be. I understand it is business, but it is still sad to watch a series you love get grind down to nothing (only to have to wait ten or so years for the "reboot" only to watch it happen all over again).

    Some call me cynical. :P

  • Chases Street DemonsChases Street Demons Registered User regular
    I don't think that fun/popular franchises have to end, nor should they end arbitrarily to satisfy some sort of desire to have been "in" on the event while it lasted. The trilogy is another arbitrary ending point that doesn't hold water when translated across formats - it may have worked fine for plays but there's no reason to limit a story to three tales when the audience wants more.

    And for those bemoaning the lack of new IPs - all of these series were brand spanking new at some point. There will continue to be new IPs developed as the current ones fall out of favor or stop making money. It's a business/popularity contest. Why on earth would they stop making Modern Warfare games when they reap so much money?

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  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    This is really more of a subjective, case-by-case sort of thing, isn't it? There are just so many factors and variables...

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  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    JackKieser wrote:
    Henroid wrote:
    I should've elaborated on something in my post; another thing that matters is intent. It probably matters most. Are the developers intending to appease the diehard fans, the stock holders, or turn around their / the IP's image?

    See, the problem with this (and with some of your original points) is that it has nothing to do with the actual game / IP it's dealing with. After all, it assumes that publishers / fans even know what's good for them; look at series like Tony Hawk / Guitar Hero, or the Sonic franchise. Many times, the whims of either a bunch of people who's only interest in an IP is money or the whims of a mob with no knowledge of formal game design is not how the future of an IP should be dealt with.

    Sure, there WILL be exceptions. Publishers will get lucky extending an IP past its prime. Sometimes, the mob gets things right. On the whole, though, that's why I think the 3-part system I posted last page is strong: because it focuses solely on the IP and its design / purpose. Bringing in random variables like the desires of fans or publishers FEELS nice, because we want to feel like our desires matter, but artistically, it harms more than helps.

    I get what you're saying, but it sounds like you're taking the "glass is half-empty" position. We're both arguing that it can be for insidious or genuine reasons why the series is made to continue, but it seems like you're more pessimistic on the issue saying that it's most likely just about money. Which is kind of a slippery statement to make in the first place because this is very much a business; money will always be an issue to some extent.

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  • JackKieserJackKieser Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote:
    I get what you're saying, but it sounds like you're taking the "glass is half-empty" position. We're both arguing that it can be for insidious or genuine reasons why the series is made to continue, but it seems like you're more pessimistic on the issue saying that it's most likely just about money. Which is kind of a slippery statement to make in the first place because this is very much a business; money will always be an issue to some extent.

    No, that's not what I said. I said that for publishers it's just about money (and it is; no stockholder cares about "artistic value"; they invest for the monies), and for fans it's about a love for the series, but neither should be used when deciding whether to extend an IP past it's limit. Investors will tank a series for easy money (see: Kotick and GH) and fans have no idea what they want.

    I mean, listen, fans are great. But, gamers bitch. A lot. And most of the time, they don't even know what they want, because they can't articulate what they want. That's why they are fans, and not designers. Let me give you an example.

    Schindler's List is a great movie. I'm sure a lot of people love it. I'm sure there are people who would love to see more of Schindler's story. Does that mean there should be a Schindler's List 2? Of course not, because the movie was never intended to have a sequel. It would be the film equivalent of my first IP classification. Fans are wrong a lot , and shouldn't really be relied on. If a series wasn't made for a sequel or wasn't made with a sequel in mind, a sequel shouldn't be made.

    Spoiler:
  • quarthinosquarthinos Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    nevermind.. I fail at reading :(

    quarthinos on
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    JackKieser wrote:
    Henroid wrote:
    I get what you're saying, but it sounds like you're taking the "glass is half-empty" position. We're both arguing that it can be for insidious or genuine reasons why the series is made to continue, but it seems like you're more pessimistic on the issue saying that it's most likely just about money. Which is kind of a slippery statement to make in the first place because this is very much a business; money will always be an issue to some extent.

    No, that's not what I said. I said that for publishers it's just about money (and it is; no stockholder cares about "artistic value"; they invest for the monies), and for fans it's about a love for the series, but neither should be used when deciding whether to extend an IP past it's limit. Investors will tank a series for easy money (see: Kotick and GH) and fans have no idea what they want.

    I mean, listen, fans are great. But, gamers bitch. A lot. And most of the time, they don't even know what they want, because they can't articulate what they want. That's why they are fans, and not designers. Let me give you an example.

    Schindler's List is a great movie. I'm sure a lot of people love it. I'm sure there are people who would love to see more of Schindler's story. Does that mean there should be a Schindler's List 2? Of course not, because the movie was never intended to have a sequel. It would be the film equivalent of my first IP classification. Fans are wrong a lot , and shouldn't really be relied on. If a series wasn't made for a sequel or wasn't made with a sequel in mind, a sequel shouldn't be made.

    Oh okay, I see what you meant now. And I agree. Sorry for misunderstanding.

    (Side note: Schindler's List is my favorite film of all time and I would hate everything forever if they decided to make a sequel or prequel)

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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote:
    Red Faction Armageddon

    Guerrilla so good how did they destroy the entire series

    Hey, I liked Armageddon. Blowing everything to pieces and then putting them back together again with techno magic is exactly what the series needed. And Mr. Toots in cute.

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  • Lindsey LohanLindsey Lohan Registered User regular
    I don't think there's a good answer to this. There are too many examples of series that should have ended long ago only to rise from the ashes. The new Tomb Raider looks great and who thought a non-Insomniac Spyro game would be worth sinking cash into?

    I think there's never a reason to truly end a series of games, however extended hiatuses are sometimes needed.

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  • CyborgZetaCyborgZeta Registered User regular
    Ov3rcharge wrote:
    Series should end when the original creator jumps ship to get away from said series, (Assassin's Creed/Silent Hill)
    Yes, like the Spyro games.

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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal Flo-ridaRegistered User regular
    when they stop making money

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  • VikingViking Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote:
    -Tal wrote:
    Red Faction Armageddon

    Guerrilla so good how did they destroy the entire series

    Hey, I liked Armageddon. Blowing everything to pieces and then putting them back together again with techno magic is exactly what the series needed. And Mr. Toots in cute.
    I don't get the "Armageddon ruined the franchise" comments, Armageddon is just like the first two games in the series.... if anything Guerilla is the game that was unlike the series as a whole.


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  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Rehab wrote:
    When the next installment is going to be packaged with the original, not as a Limited Edition but because that's the only reason anyone will buy it.

    Don't know this one.
    Pretty sure this is White Knight Chronicles.

    Bartholamue on
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