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Gay Gamers: Mario and Luigi are brothers?!

245

Posts

  • bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I always saw Voldo from Soul Caliber as gay for some reason.

  • edited February 2007
    bruin wrote: »
    I always saw Voldo from Soul Caliber as gay for some reason.
    I'm pretty sure he's just gone a bit insane due to being locked in a treasure vault for a great many years with his eyes taped over and nothing but a large collection of very fruity outfits.

  • CokomonCokomon Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    bruin wrote: »
    I always saw Voldo from Soul Caliber as gay for some reason.

    I think you are right, his back story definitely indicates something about it. His deep devotion to his dead master, Vercci, makes you wonder.

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  • SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Cokomon wrote: »
    Guys, I think you are forgetting about something:

    queers_of_war.jpg
    Queers of War
    JESUS CHRIST, MY EYES!

    I have a feeling that Cole doesn't want that thing on the Cole train at least...

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    My main point though is why should it matter. I mean, I dont know. Im straight. As a gay person, do you feel somehow offended because there arent enough gay characters in games. I think that it wouldnt bother me so much. Its just a matter of preference.

    Im not calling for any sort of prejudice or segregation, but why should there be gays in games. I dont like that sort of 'forced' equality. By pointing out that there arent enough gays you create a situation where you are assuming they are not equal. If you truly believed both groups to be equal it wouldnt matter if either was represented.

    So... gays shouldn't be bothered that there's nothing but heterosexual protagonists, but you would be bothered if you had to play a homosexual?

    Heloooooooo double standard.

    Also, how can both groups possibly be equal in the video game realm if one group is almost entirely non-existant?

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • GinsaneGinsane Registered User
    edited February 2007
    As a person, this thread makes me uncomfortable.

    Live!: Burnout Cowboy - DS: Too many.
  • CarnivoreCarnivore Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I dunno, perhaps I just can't get into games as much. I can never put "myself" into the character's shoes. Probably why I don't have much affection for silent characters, outside of a very rare few.
    Carnivore wrote: »
    Im not calling for any sort of prejudice or segregation, but why should there be gays in games. I dont like that sort of 'forced' equality. By pointing out that there arent enough gays you create a situation where you are assuming they are not equal. If you truly believed both groups to be equal it wouldnt matter if either was represented.

    The trouble right now is that they aren't equal. I can name loads of well-developed, deep heterosexual characters. I can name two well-developed, deep homosexual characters. That's not equality. Am I saying "Every straight character must have an equal and opposite gay character"? No, because that'd be retarded. I'm saying "Hey, how about some gay characters that aren't blatantly offensive stereotypes."

    But, why should there be an equal amount of gay characters. Surely, if that was the case many of them would be token gays because the real world population would no be an accurate reflection.

    Sure, perhaps at the moment it is a little imbalanced. But are you saying that, say, in the next Bioware RPG a character should be gay for the sake of it? What if the plot doesnt fit, or what if, quite frankly, the devs dont want it to be a gay character. Not out of homophobia or anything sinister, but merely as a matter of choice.

    That said, I do agree they are under-represented at the moment. But to think that at one point in the future there would be a 50:50 balance of gays to straights in games as characters is ludicrous. Homosexuals will always be a minority, and by trying to force the issue to get more and more gay characters will only make it worse in my opinion, as most of the characters will not be well rounded, developed or a good representation of the gay community, but probably a cheap stereotype and put in there for the sake of it.

    I mean, you go around any minority, african americans, gays, the disabled etc. They are always going to be under represented, thats a fact of life.

    I cant remember the last video game character I saw in a wheelchair.

    I think that disputes of minority representation are always going to be there. Its best to kind of 'ignore' the issue, as there is nothing wrong with a character not being gay, or a thousand being not gay either. It becomes an issue when someone takes offense that they arent being represented equally, when in fact by wanting to be represented equally will probably cause more harm (through sterotyping and token inclusion in plotlines).

    I think the ideal scenario is a KOTOR/Mass Effect type of game. Where the main character really has no sexual preference, and has the option to pursue either.

    I dont look at Revan in KOTOR and think 'hes gay', I think 'hes straight' because I can relate to myself. But a gay person might feel a closer connection to Carth or someone. I think Games are catching up on social issues like this.

    Dont forget, its only been, what, 10 years, 11 years since the first true 3d games came out. Its been even less with full speech characters and deep, meaningful plotlines.

    Video gaming is still in its infancy when compared to say, cinema or TV. And look how long it took them to 'come around' as it were to the issues of race and minority equality. Complaining that now, 20 years in, that there are problems with race or sexuality is a little harsh. The industry is developing, give it time I say.

    hihi.jpg
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Ginsane wrote: »
    As a person, this thread makes me uncomfortable.


    I'd like to apologize, but I can't find a reason to.

    142.jpg
  • LaPuzzaLaPuzza Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I think about Kevin Smith's comments about gay characters in his movies. His brother is gay, and he just wanted to allow his brother to see someone like himself on the screen.

    There have been some games where I have really gotten into the game and "become" the character I'm controling. Games where I feel like the main character and have feelings for the other characters. This is rare, but represents some of the best gaming experiences I have had. Aside from the obvious (gamepad/=/sword), the fewer visible seperations between myself and the main character, the better. Playing as a gay main character, just like playing as a female character, would not stop me from playing a game, but it would likely prevent me from feeling like I was the main character.

    I think this also has something to do with game companies still thinking of gamers as teenage boys who play games because we have no friends and can't get dates. Kids in that situtation, honestly, likely don't want their hobby making them question their sexuality - they get enough of that shit at school.

    If I didn't know LaPuzza wasn't a spambot I would think that was a spambot post.
  • cherv1cherv1 Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I think Killer7 guy was in a wheelchair. Never played it though.

  • CarnivoreCarnivore Registered User
    edited February 2007
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    My main point though is why should it matter. I mean, I dont know. Im straight. As a gay person, do you feel somehow offended because there arent enough gay characters in games. I think that it wouldnt bother me so much. Its just a matter of preference.

    Im not calling for any sort of prejudice or segregation, but why should there be gays in games. I dont like that sort of 'forced' equality. By pointing out that there arent enough gays you create a situation where you are assuming they are not equal. If you truly believed both groups to be equal it wouldnt matter if either was represented.

    So... gays shouldn't be bothered that there's nothing but heterosexual protagonists, but you would be bothered if you had to play a homosexual?

    Heloooooooo double standard.

    Also, how can both groups possibly be equal in the video game realm if one group is almost entirely non-existant?

    In my eyes, being gay is no different than being left handed. You are in a minority and as far as I am concerned, there is absolutely nothing different about you. I do not mean this derogatorily, I mean this in a good way. I see no prejudice, I treat anyone, all race or sexual preference, equally.

    You could argue that Link aside, left handed people are underrepresented. Why arent there more left handed characters. CS:S is one of the only FPS games where you can choose hand alignment.

    Would it be an different if I brought up similar issue that we (I am left handed) are underrepresented. I see all these right handed protagonists wandering around and I feel offended by that.

    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    Thats my point. Once you start taking offense at being underrepresented, it will never end. There arent enough female characters. There arent enough gays, or lefties, or blacks or children or so on and so on.

    Just let the industry develop, eventually things will sort itself out.

    hihi.jpg
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    In the spirit of continuing discussion, I'll add: It's completely different. Being left-handed is not something that has shaped my personality. It is not something that has made me who I am today. Yes, I hope that the fact that I'm gay is not the most interesting thing about me, but it is an aspect of my character. Being left-handed is not.

    But since we're on the subject, I always thought it was cool that Kain in Final Fantasy IV was left-handed.

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    3DS: 1607-3034-6970 | Let's Play Avadon 2!
  • CokomonCokomon Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    My main point though is why should it matter. I mean, I dont know. Im straight. As a gay person, do you feel somehow offended because there arent enough gay characters in games. I think that it wouldnt bother me so much. Its just a matter of preference.

    Im not calling for any sort of prejudice or segregation, but why should there be gays in games. I dont like that sort of 'forced' equality. By pointing out that there arent enough gays you create a situation where you are assuming they are not equal. If you truly believed both groups to be equal it wouldnt matter if either was represented.

    So... gays shouldn't be bothered that there's nothing but heterosexual protagonists, but you would be bothered if you had to play a homosexual?

    Heloooooooo double standard.

    Also, how can both groups possibly be equal in the video game realm if one group is almost entirely non-existant?

    In my eyes, being gay is no different than being left handed. You are in a minority and as far as I am concerned, there is absolutely nothing different about you. I do not mean this derogatorily, I mean this in a good way. I see no prejudice, I treat anyone, all race or sexual preference, equally.

    You could argue that Link aside, left handed people are underrepresented. Why arent there more left handed characters. CS:S is one of the only FPS games where you can choose hand alignment.

    Would it be an different if I brought up similar issue that we (I am left handed) are underrepresented. I see all these right handed protagonists wandering around and I feel offended by that.

    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    Thats my point. Once you start taking offense at being underrepresented, it will never end. There arent enough female characters. There arent enough gays, or lefties, or blacks or children or so on and so on.

    Just let the industry develop, eventually things will sort itself out.

    There aren't enough children in the Grand Theft Auto games.

    post.png
  • CarnivoreCarnivore Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    Because?

    What is the difference between being gay and left handed in terms of representation?

    Im not trying to stir shit or start flaming, it is just an interesting thought I think. I mean, why is being gay somehow a more 'high profile' minority.

    Edit: Saw your edit. I agree. I was merely postulating. Perhaps being gay affects your character in more ways than being left handed. But my point still stands. both groups are a minority, why should one have more 'right' to be equally represented then the other. That's like some fucking form of meta-discrimination or something right there.

    hihi.jpg
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    cloudeagle wrote:
    As it stands right now, the only ones people can think of are self-generated or parodies.

    Juhani Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic
    Unnamed Protagonist Fable
    Anybody The Sims

    All of those are handled maturely (or in the case of The Sims as maturely as anything else).

    steam_sig.png
  • edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?
    No.

  • Marblehead JohnsonMarblehead Johnson Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect..

    Although I totally agree, you have to realize that the previous conversation would never sound like this.

    Guy: "Dude, are you gonna go pick up that new game? It looks AWESOME!"
    Dude: "No way, man. He holds a gun in his LEFT hand... what are you, some sort of a lefty?"

    Magus` wrote: »
    It's human nature to derive meaning from that something that actually lacks it in order to suit your goals.

    Dismayed By Humanity Since 1992.
  • PenguinSephPenguinSeph Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    Because?

    What is the difference between being gay and left handed in terms of representation?

    Im not trying to stir shit or start flaming, it is just an interesting thought I think. I mean, why is being gay somehow a more 'high profile' minority.
    He edited his post while you where posting and added that
    In the spirit of continuing discussion, I'll add: It's completely different. Being left-handed is not something that has shaped my personality. It is not something that has made me who I am today. Yes, I hope that the fact that I'm gay is not the most interesting thing about me, but it is an aspect of my character. Being left-handed is not.

    But since we're on the subject, I always thought it was cool that Kain in Final Fantasy IV was left-handed.

    That one video made me giggle when he was spanking the clown and it said LEVEL UP!!!!!


    Ive always wanted to level up from spanking a clown.
  • ThreepioThreepio New Westminster, BCRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    Edit: Smooth ninja edit bro :)


    Agreed. People are not discriminated against due to their handedness (...er... any longer - BURN HER! She's a WITCH!). It is not a state of being that effects how you are perceived or your perceptions of the world (coming from someone who is partially ambidextrous - funny thing that.)

    You would not see dialog or situations change because someone signed the register in the town of Speilburg (a cookie if you know what I'm talking about) with their left hand.

    And again, I don't think anyone's looking to see a 50/50 split of hetero/alternative. But games that provide choice (Fallout was good for this, as was Fable I believe) or games where it is an accepted route should be explored. After all if 10% of the population identifies as gay (and if Kinsey was right and a large majority are in some way bisexual) - wouldn't it be nice to have at least a few characters that aren't blatant stereotypes or cardboard cutouts?

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  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote:
    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    Point the first: Link, up until Twilight Princess (Wii) was left-handed. He still is in the GameCube version.

    Point the second: It's actually thought that us left-handers make up (or would make up) 50% of the population, but schools and teachers still favor teaching children to use their right hand because it's what they are more likely to use themselves.

    steam_sig.png
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    Because?

    What is the difference between being gay and left handed in terms of representation?

    Im not trying to stir shit or start flaming, it is just an interesting thought I think. I mean, why is being gay somehow a more 'high profile' minority.

    Here is the exact point this thread turns into a heap of burning wreckage. Count me out of this one.

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • cherv1cherv1 Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I'm gay and I obviously play video games. My friends all know both these things, yet I've never put the two things together. It actually made me laugh when I saw that this article was about gays playing video games. I thought "Well what do those two things have to do with each other?"

    Also, I've never really though about how I was usually playing as a straight character in games. Just glancing at my game shelves, a lot of them are handheld games which are mostly asexual, and on the gamecube shelf it's mainly Nintendo first party games, which have mainly non-sexual references to people being married at most. And then there's a couple of James Bond games, but him being a complete womaniser is completely expected.

  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    Because?

    What is the difference between being gay and left handed in terms of representation?

    Im not trying to stir shit or start flaming, it is just an interesting thought I think. I mean, why is being gay somehow a more 'high profile' minority.

    Because nobody gets the shit kicked out of them for being left-handed? Just a guess.

    Worst thing I've heard of that happened to a left-hander was the his teachers forced him to write right-handed and he failed penmanship. Not nearly in the same league as gay folks getting the tar beaten out of them.

    steam_sig.png
  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I don't have much to add except to say that there is a lot of stupid-sounding shit in this thread, and it all seems to be coming from the same meat-eating place.

    nipplessig.jpg
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Edit: Saw your edit. I agree. I was merely postulating. Perhaps being gay affects your character in more ways than being left handed. But my point still stands. both groups are a minority, why should one have more 'right' to be equally represented then the other. That's like some fucking form of meta-discrimination or something right there.
    Because there aren't a ton of stereotypes about left handed people.
    Besides, there are plenty of left handed protagonists.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_left-handed_characters#Video_games

  • GinsaneGinsane Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Titmouse wrote: »
    Edit: Saw your edit. I agree. I was merely postulating. Perhaps being gay affects your character in more ways than being left handed. But my point still stands. both groups are a minority, why should one have more 'right' to be equally represented then the other. That's like some fucking form of meta-discrimination or something right there.
    Because there aren't a ton of stereotypes about left handed people.
    Besides, there are plenty of left handed protagonists.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_left-handed_characters#Video_games

    Oh Ziggy Stardust. I hear he swung both ways. With his hands too.

    Edit: And couldn't everyone in this thread learn something from David Bowie..? Hmmmm?

    Live!: Burnout Cowboy - DS: Too many.
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    cherv1 wrote: »
    And then there's a couple of James Bond games, but him being a complete womaniser is completely expected.

    Maybe not for long. ;)

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    3DS: 1607-3034-6970 | Let's Play Avadon 2!
  • cherv1cherv1 Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    cherv1 wrote: »
    And then there's a couple of James Bond games, but him being a complete womaniser is completely expected.

    Maybe not for long. ;)

    AHAHAHahah oh that's great.

  • Marblehead JohnsonMarblehead Johnson Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    cherv1 wrote: »
    And then there's a couple of James Bond games, but him being a complete womaniser is completely expected.

    Maybe not for long. ;)

    See, that would be a good place for Eddie Murphy's "Double-oh-nine-and-a-half" joke...

    Magus` wrote: »
    It's human nature to derive meaning from that something that actually lacks it in order to suit your goals.

    Dismayed By Humanity Since 1992.
  • SilentCoconutSilentCoconut Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I am of the opinion that sexuality has nothing to do with gaming.

    Furthermore, every time I see the word "gaymer", I want to punch a kitten.

  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I am of the opinion that sexuality has nothing to do with gaming.

    Furthermore, every time I see the word "gaymer", I want to punch a kitten.

    Now that I can agree with.

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    3DS: 1607-3034-6970 | Let's Play Avadon 2!
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    If sexuality has nothing to do with gaming, then why do people buy porno games, DoA, and the like?

    It may not be handled very maturely, but sexuality has something to do with gaming.

    steam_sig.png
  • CarnivoreCarnivore Registered User
    edited February 2007
    jclast wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    Because?

    What is the difference between being gay and left handed in terms of representation?

    Im not trying to stir shit or start flaming, it is just an interesting thought I think. I mean, why is being gay somehow a more 'high profile' minority.

    Because nobody gets the shit kicked out of them for being left-handed? Just a guess.

    Worst thing I've heard of that happened to a left-hander was the his teachers forced him to write right-handed and he failed penmanship. Not nearly in the same league as gay folks getting the tar beaten out of them.

    Maybe Im too optimistic on this issue. Or maybe in America the discrimination is much worse. In England there is no gay rights campaign to speak of, because for the most part they are treated perfectly equal. The only issue that is of any concern is gay marriage, and unlike America, it is less of a religious issue and more of a legal snafu in a way.

    I work with and have some gay friends. Until they told me I did not know. That is good, as there is nothing wrong with being gay, and in my eyes, I treat them exactly the same as I used to before I knew.

    Seems this is hot issue, so I'll leave it. Just wanna say that Im not saying left handed people should have more rights, or more publicity than gays. I know gay rights is important, and that there is much more disrimination towards them.

    But really, I wouldnt have thought that video games is the most important place to vent this equality. I mean, in the grand scheme of things it's 'just a game' and hardly indicative of society as a whole.

    I was just saying that in my opinion trying to 'force' developers to implement gay characters is artificial and probably more detrimental to their 'cause' as because the industry has not yet fully matured, the gay characters would be either criticised for being stereotypical or too shallow.

    That is a whole other point though. I mean, how do we know Gordon Freeman isnt gay. There is no sex in HL1 or 2. He could be gay. A thousand other game characters could be gay. The only hugely open heteros are worse sterotypes like Duke Nukem.

    I mean, unless a game has a specific romantic plotline, or a sex scene, is there any way to definitively say 'that character is straight' or 'that character is gay'.

    Meaning that unless the gay character is a stereotype, there is NO way to tell, unless you have a romantic plotline, and not many games do.

    So really, I cant get my head around this paradox of sorts.

    Gay people claim they are underrepresented in gaming, when in actual fact they are saying gay stereotypes are underrepresented because, unless a game has sex or romance, there is no way to tell the sexual preference of the character, unless it is a stereotype.

    I may be way off, as I said these arent really deep thoughts just general musings.

    And Houk. That was uncalled for, dont shit up a thread when there is discussion going on. You hardly contributed with your post. Nor am I saying 'my opinion is gospel accept it or fuck off'. Im just putting forward my view on this sensitive issue.

    Yes the left handed analogy was exaggerated and some people didnt get that. I never meant that lefties were 'equal' in terms of discrimination. It was just a point on the scale of things, especially in such a small genre as gaming.

    hihi.jpg
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    This is ridiculous, stupid, and a waste of time.

    C'mon.

    Who out there really thinks it is impossible for a gay person to play games?

    3DS Friend Code: 0817-5033-8184 // Nintendo Network ID: AbsoluteZero
  • cherv1cherv1 Registered User
    edited February 2007
    This is ridiculous, stupid, and a waste of time.

    C'mon.

    Who out there really thinks it is impossible for a gay person to play games?

    Maybe if their wrists were so limp that they kept dropping the controller?

    (that's all I got)

  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    This is ridiculous, stupid, and a waste of time.

    C'mon.

    Who out there really thinks it is impossible for a gay person to play games?

    I dunno, man. I'm sure there are people out there.

    I know a guy that thinks women like to play The Sims because it "gets them ready for marriage."

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  • RaggieRaggie Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I might not be the one to talk since I´m not gay, but I´ve studied media and read some comment made by gay people about gay characters on tv. They often say that seeing a gay character makes them feel "validated" and can help them come in terms with their own sexuality. Some have even been at the end of their ropes, being afraid of confronting their family or friends about their sexuality, or even have confronted them and been violently rejected. Gay teenagers are much more likely to commit suicide than hetero teens. many people have found so much comfort from seeing gay characters on tv that it has turned their lives around enough to prevent suicide. i haven´t heard of any comments on how gay people see gay game characters, but I could easily see that playing a gay character who has a romance with another character could have the same effect (it would be interesting to know though). It seems obvious to me that not being represented in the media is a problem. And no, you can´t compare lefties to this. Nobody could lose friends, be abandoned by parents, or be told you´re going to hell because you´re a left-handed.

    I also don´t believe that games can be a financial success only if you cater to the masses. Consider case Xena: The Warrior Princess. It was the biggest cash-maker of syndicated shows at the time, with a huge fan-base. Why? Because of lesbians. The majority of the show´s fans were dyke women who loved the lesbian subtext of the show. Because lesbian women had very little media representation of the time, a very large number of them tuned to Xena. It turned out that a large percentage of a 10% minority is a lot of people. In fact, many products are being marketed specifically towards gay people.

    BTW, Jade Empire had romance options for both gays and lesbians. Don´t recall their names.

    I don´t mind gay characters myself. Maybe because I´m a woman and I´m already used to having to relate to characters whose gender and sexuality are not the same as mine.

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  • edited February 2007
    Blackjack wrote: »
    cherv1 wrote: »
    And then there's a couple of James Bond games, but him being a complete womaniser is completely expected.

    Maybe not for long. ;)
    Christ, can you imagine what the people who already think Craig isn't bond because of stupid things like his hair and eye colour would do?

    I'm guessing their heads would explode and implode at the same time.

  • SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    bongi wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    cherv1 wrote: »
    And then there's a couple of James Bond games, but him being a complete womaniser is completely expected.

    Maybe not for long. ;)
    Christ, can you imagine what the people who already think Craig isn't bond because of stupid things like his hair and eye colour would do?

    I'm guessing their heads would explode and implode at the same time.
    Truly, a sight of great beauty!

  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Carnivore wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Carnivore wrote: »
    I know Im exagerrating, but really at the base level, there is no difference.

    10% of the population are gay, I'll bet more are left handed. Yet there are NO left handed protagonists. I think lack of homosexual characters is a secondary issue in that respect.

    No?

    No.

    Because?

    What is the difference between being gay and left handed in terms of representation?

    Im not trying to stir shit or start flaming, it is just an interesting thought I think. I mean, why is being gay somehow a more 'high profile' minority.

    Because nobody gets the shit kicked out of them for being left-handed? Just a guess.

    Worst thing I've heard of that happened to a left-hander was the his teachers forced him to write right-handed and he failed penmanship. Not nearly in the same league as gay folks getting the tar beaten out of them.

    Maybe Im too optimistic on this issue. Or maybe in America the discrimination is much worse. In England there is no gay rights campaign to speak of, because for the most part they are treated perfectly equal. The only issue that is of any concern is gay marriage, and unlike America, it is less of a religious issue and more of a legal snafu in a way.

    You are, and it is. Gay people (in the US, at least; I've never lived anywhere else) have to put up with name-calling, getting beaten up, and being discriminated against. They can't get married, they can't adopt children as a couple. It's shitty, and they deserve better. Video game representation is (or ought to be) the least of their concerns.
    Carnivore wrote:
    I was just saying that in my opinion trying to 'force' developers to implement gay characters is artificial and probably more detrimental to their 'cause' as because the industry has not yet fully matured, the gay characters would be either criticised for being stereotypical or too shallow.

    I agree with you here. You can't force good narrative, and if all the video game writers are straight it's going to be hard to get a decent gay character. Write what you know and all that.
    Carnivore wrote:
    That is a whole other point though. I mean, how do we know Gordon Freeman isnt gay. There is no sex in HL1 or 2. He could be gay. A thousand other game characters could be gay. The only hugely open heteros are worse sterotypes like Duke Nukem.

    I mean, unless a game has a specific romantic plotline, or a sex scene, is there any way to definitively say 'that character is straight' or 'that character is gay'.

    Meaning that unless the gay character is a stereotype, there is NO way to tell, unless you have a romantic plotline, and not many games do.

    So really, I cant get my head around this paradox of sorts.

    That's just the way shit works. Most people are straight so they assume that most other people, be they real or imagined, are straight.
    Carnivore wrote:
    Gay people claim they are underrepresented in gaming, when in actual fact they are saying gay stereotypes are underrepresented because, unless a game has sex or romance, there is no way to tell the sexual preference of the character, unless it is a stereotype.

    Maybe we play largely different types of game, but most RPGs feature a love story. Many times there's a princess (or other damsel-type) to be rescued by a guy. Heterosexuality can be assumed there. Even when there's not a love story, a character can be obviously straight. Outrun II. No love story, but when you do well, your female passenger gets hearts above her head. It's heavily implied that they're together.
    Carnivore wrote:
    Yes the left handed analogy was exaggerated and some people didnt get that. I never meant that lefties were 'equal' in terms of discrimination. It was just a point on the scale of things, especially in such a small genre as gaming.

    It was out of line. Gay people have a lot going against them (discrimination, et al). Left-handers get ink smeared on their hand when they write. There's a difference, and to claim, even in analogy, that the two are in a similar position just because you can't think of left-handed game characters is at best ignorant and at worst offensive.

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