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[SWcolonTOR] Damage Thread: I find your lack of DPS disturbing.

Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo FF69B4Registered User, Moderator mod
edited December 2011 in MMO Extravaganza
Damage is, of course, the most important role in the game. Without it, mobs would stay alive indefinitely and nothing would get accomplished. Good dps means faster runs, less stress on tanks and healers, and more successful runs overall. So here is where you all can discuss rotations, consumable usage, specs, etc.


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Every advanced class in the game can DPS. So it's more a matter of how you like to dps and what you enjoy doing in your off-time. So I'll list that info here.

Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior
Guardian/Juggernaut: Use a single lightsaber to get the job done. Can spec for tanking as well. Primary resource builds from certain moves and is spent by others.

Sentinel/Marauder: When one lightsaver isn't enough, try out this AC. Dual-wields for your pleasure, but only has DPS specs.

Jedi Consular/Sith Inquisitor
Shadow/Assassin: Wields that fancy lightsaber made famous by Darth Maul. Has an energy bar similar to rogues from that Blizzard game. Utilized stealth and positional attacks to dish out damage, but also shoot lightning or pebbles at people for some extra oomph. Can also tank.

Sage/Sorcerer: Uses only one saber, but damage is primarily dealt via the force. Pick your flavor! Vanilla telekinesis Republic or chocolate lightning Empire! Becomes more of a ranged class, and the energy bar is much larger than the Shadow/Assassin, becoming more akin to a mana bar. Pack heals, and can spec for healing.

Trooper/Bounty Hunter
Vanguard/Powertech: Front-line brutes that pack real stopping power. Pretty much give up most range capacity for nastier weaponry. Use an Ammo/Heat meter that either drops (Ammo) or builds up (Heat). Functionally the same, however, and your regen gets worse the lower/higher your Ammo/Heat is. Can also spec for tanking.

Commando/Mercenary: Ranged classes that utilize explosives and rifles to take down their targets. Same resource system as the other ACs, they have some healing capabilities and can spec for such.

Smuggler/Agent
Scoundrel/Operative: A closer-ranged style that uses either close-range guns (Smuggler) or knives (Operative) to dish out damage. Can stealth, allowing them to get into the optimal position before a fight. Have an energy bar similar to Shadow/Assassin, but regen gets better/worse as your energy stays high/low. Pack heals, and can serve as a healer if specced for it.

Gunslinger/Sniper: Long-range fights that make use of cover to not only avoid certain attacks but also make use of some their own special attacks (Scoundrel/Operative also have this, but make less use of it). Same resources system as the other Smuggler/Agent ACs. Can only spec for damage. So if you hate healing or tanking, you'll have extra spec options.

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Specs will be added here as we get more clarity as to what works and what doesn't.

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Skill Calculator

Bobkins Flymo on
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Posts

  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    Sith Assassin erry'day. I enjoy the thought of tanking with a two headed lightsaber while having the option to also DPS with it, thus being able to switch between the two roles for ethier grouping or soloing content. Also, the SI progression video had some slick digs for Assassins at cap. Having lightning and stealth is good too. The only downside is no in-combat healing for myself, but that would probably make us downright uber OP in most situations.

    I'm guessing the Madness tree is the better of the two DPS trees to start off with as a main spec? Deception feels slightly more PvP friendly to me at the moment with the odd service skill or talent put in.

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  • hoodie13hoodie13 Registered User regular
    I'm going damage in most of my alts, at least for levelling up.

    This is the build I'm using for my main, a Trooper Commando. It'll take advantage of the Combat Support cells while still going mostly for damage. I'd like to have Kolto Bomb, but the main goal of this build is killing fast and hard, and supercharging as soon as possible.

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  • TurambarTurambar Captain 'Crawler of the Warship XavierRegistered User regular
    Slinging guns all day

    Default PvE Sharpshooter build
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrbdMsRtzZbcZG.1

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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    This is basically what I've kludged together for a Sage damage build. Mostly focused on building Telekinetic Throw into something crazy.

    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600ZforMd0rZcMcRsrzM.1

  • JohannenJohannen Registered User
    edited December 2011
    I'm trying to work out how to spec my Healer inquisitor sorcerer. I want to go a healer as i've never done it before, but it seems like the game tries to push you into being an "UNLIMITED POWER" monkey constantly.

    Edit: the reason I put this here is because I will probably want to dps at the same time as healing and want to know how best to do that.

    Johannen on
  • DecoyDecoy Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    In beta I was able to pull off my companion quite a bit, so I got a wild hair to try the Dirty Fighting Tree at launch. The steady damage from the dots/bleeds should keep me from pulling as much, but will obviously be weaker in the upfront damage. Also, I went scoundrel because I wanted the benefits of stealth, which I feel is a good trade off (utility wise) from the benefits of levels 1 and 2 of the SS tree.

    This is, very sadly, what Im going to try and roll with.

    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701ZGhZGbbkrrGdhR.1

    If anyone has any Dirty Fighting Tree exp, I'd love to hear it.

    Decoy on
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  • CripTonicCripTonic Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    People really need to stop taking Alacrity talents in their specs as DPS. It is absolutely not a DPS stat as it does not affect resource regeneration rates, or cooldowns, which are the limiting factors for all DPS classes (Sages/Sorcs are a bit of an exception in this regard, since they have a silly tier-4 talent in Telekinetics/Lightning that makes their free skill give them clear casts.)

    CripTonic on
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  • vamenvamen Registered User regular
    I'm sure people will figure that out once the game has been out for more than 8 hours =p

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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo FF69B4 Registered User, Moderator mod
    Doesn't it lower GCD?

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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    Doesn't it lower GCD?

    I think what Crip is saying is that the GCD isn't what holds you back from a DPS perspective, but resource management/regen.

  • DecoyDecoy Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    CripTonic wrote:
    People really need to stop taking Alacrity talents in their specs as DPS. It is absolutely not a DPS stat as it does not affect resource regeneration rates, or cooldowns, which are the limiting factors for all DPS classes (Sages/Sorcs are a bit of an exception in this regard, since they have a silly tier-4 talent in Telekinetics/Lightning that makes their free skill give them clear casts.)

    I took it because I was under the impression it effected haste. If that's not the case well, so be it.

    And like it was said, the games barely been up for any time at all. "Need to stop taking it" implies people have been falsely gauging its value for longer than a few hours. :)

    Decoy on
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  • CripTonicCripTonic Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The sole purpose of haste is to speed up channels and casts so healing feels more responsive. It's actually really hard to run out of resources on healing classes unless you chain off big heals. DPS classes can all run out by spamming their most basic, no-cooldown skills.

    As far as haste affecting the GCD, I had about 12% on my Mercenary and I never noticed it because you virtually never use non-cast time skills as a healer.

    CripTonic on
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  • cptruggedcptrugged Aim For The North Pole!Registered User regular
    Does a sped up channel compress the damage ticks as well as to raise overall dps? I would think a quicker channeled full auto would be quite a bonus.

  • CripTonicCripTonic Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    hasting full auto is bad because you have a talent that allows it to restore ammo on crit, but it has a 3s ICD which is not affected by haste. If you crit the second attack of Full Auto and chain into a Grav Round, that grav round cannot restore ammo when it crits, because having haste will force the sequence under 3s.

    So, again, Alacrity is not a DPS stat, and actually lowers your DPS if you're a Merc/Commando.

    CripTonic on
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  • NaphtaliNaphtali Null Registered User regular
    This might be a silly question, but what are the stats you should be looking for DPS for each class?

    I don't think I've ever seen a breakdown of what class/spec wants what stats.

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  • Silas BrownSilas Brown Registered User regular
    I can't speak for the other classes, but for the Smuggler and the Imperial Agent, it's Cunning all the way.

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  • lostprophetlostprophet Registered User
    For the bounty hunter and trooper the primary damage stat is aim

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Naphtali wrote:
    This might be a silly question, but what are the stats you should be looking for DPS for each class?

    I don't think I've ever seen a breakdown of what class/spec wants what stats.

    I think it's mostly done by base class. JK likes Strength, Smuggler likes Cunning, Trooper likes Aim and Consular likes Willpower, and obviously their Sith analogues are identical.

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  • EchoEcho staring is caring Moderator mod
    The Codex has lots of stuff on what staff classes want, including your companions.

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Echo wrote:
    The Codex has lots of stuff on what staff classes want, including your companions.

    Yeah, the Codex is supremely helpful in this game. It also mentions things like what your companions like or don't like (*hint, hint*).

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  • quarthinosquarthinos Registered User regular
    You forgot that Gunslinger/Sniper use a gun in EACH HAND!

  • TurambarTurambar Captain 'Crawler of the Warship XavierRegistered User regular
    Snipers use a rifle

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    Origin: Turamb | Steam: Turambar | 3DS: 3411-1109-4537 | NNID: Turambar
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary When has it ever been any different?Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I thought the IA use rifles for both specs and the BH uses the dual pistols.

    Corehealer on
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  • HardtargetHardtarget Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    so I made a gunslinger and want to focus on y'know.. gunslinging, which I guess means damage. Any suggestions on how to spec out my talent tree?
    edit - actually nevermind:
    Turambar wrote:
    Slinging guns all day

    Default PvE Sharpshooter build
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrbdMsRtzZbcZG.1
    this looks like a really good build

    Hardtarget on
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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    I have a request.

    Call it SW:TOR in the thread title, not SWTOR. It doesn't line up with the rest of the threads and is going to make me insane!

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  • TurambarTurambar Captain 'Crawler of the Warship XavierRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Hardtarget wrote:
    so I made a gunslinger and want to focus on y'know.. gunslinging, which I guess means damage. Any suggestions on how to spec out my talent tree?
    edit - actually nevermind:
    Turambar wrote:
    Slinging guns all day

    Default PvE Sharpshooter build
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrbdMsRtzZbcZG.1
    this looks like a really good build

    The Diversion and Lay Low talents are basically fillers and can be put into whatever
    Like CripTonic said, Black Market Mods isn't very useful, but there aren't really any other damage enhancing talents. Speed Shot should benefit from it at least
    You could take Hot Pursuit instead, but it seems to me whenever you're running seems to be good time to use Flurrys and regen some energy
    Dirty Escape is a great talent for PvP and soloing, but for straight up damage I don't think it would be worth sacrificing Bravado

    I don't have any experience beyond the stress test myself, but from what I've read most Sharpshooters are speccing something like that
    It will probably need some tuning once we get experience, though it should work for the time being

    edit: An alternative:
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bsrbdMRRgzZbcbZh.1
    (2 points from Black Market Mods to Hot Pursuit, 1 point from Burst Volley to Lay Low)

    Turambar on
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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo FF69B4 Registered User, Moderator mod
    Infidel wrote:
    I have a request.

    Call it SW:TOR in the thread title, not SWTOR. It doesn't line up with the rest of the threads and is going to make me insane!
    I guess I can do that.

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  • TRICorpTRICorp Registered User
    Alright. Getting prepped for my estimated early access. Going Bounty Hunter, and going to be doing alot of PvP. Heres my build so far:
    http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3010MZ0cZMIrrdGGRs.1

    Rail shot with extra crit dmg, cooldown reduction, and -90% armor pen. looks sick!

    XBox Live: TRISkull
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    Infidel wrote:
    I have a request.

    Call it SW:TOR in the thread title, not SWTOR. It doesn't line up with the rest of the threads and is going to make me insane!
    I guess I can do that.

    You've failed me for the last time, Rorus.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    So is Jugg dps enough to make leveling easy enough? After doing the rogue thing for seven years I'm not exactly eager to jump right into an AC that's melee dos only again. I'd like to at least be able to spec into tank mode for flashpoints and stuff

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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    Javen wrote:
    So is Jugg dps enough to make leveling easy enough? After doing the rogue thing for seven years I'm not exactly eager to jump right into an AC that's melee dos only again. I'd like to at least be able to spec into tank mode for flashpoints and stuff

    I solo'd into my 20s as full tank as I could make myself. Attack something, spam shit and do damage, have Vette do lots of damage while you tank, repeat. (Be sure to keep her geared up with quest rewards and you'll notice the damage jump.)

    Can't say how things are beyond that but it doesn't look like you get to a point where it's unbearably slow or anything.

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  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    So.

    I'm thinking about rolling a class that's pure damage, with no alternative spec. And my reasoning is:

    (1) In WoW when I rolled a druid, I focused purely on healing and I didn't have much interest in taking advantage of my off-specs
    (2) I want to DPS and focus purely on damage
    (3) I think I'd like to pick a class where each talent tree deals with damage, so I have more thoughtful choices than just "I'm going to get talents in the damage tree"

    I think I'll go with sniper over the marauder, since the cover mechanic looks pretty interesting and ranged damage > melee damage.

  • Rikidou HyuugaRikidou Hyuuga Registered User regular
    cool thread

    now to totally muck it up: we have a lot of different flavors of DPS in here.

    Which flavor stands above the rest as the *best* flavor?

  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    cool thread

    now to totally muck it up: we have a lot of different flavors of DPS in here.

    Which flavor stands above the rest as the *best* flavor?

    Still unclear.

    Gunslingers/Sentinels and their mirrors will theoretically do 5% more DPS than anyone else at endgame right now in exchange for losing the ability to switch to a healing or tanking spec.

    Really they fall into a few camps though. The non-force classes need to pace themselves because their regen increases if they have more energy, and while they can burst in a pinch, they're designed for sustained DPS. Sages can blow through their resources quicker and burst more effectively but will tend to have issues keeping enough Force later in the fight if they're not doing efficient rotations because they have a flat regen rate that's lower than anyone else's. Assassins are melee Sages with a ton of positional abilities, 1/5 or 1/6 the force pool and some abilities to help it regen faster. Knights and Warriors of all stripes are limited by their energy system which requires them to build rage, and Sentinels/Marauders are pretty squishy.

    The ones who are ranged and use cast time nukes are the Sage, Commando and Gunslinger. Everyone else tends to mix it up within 10m at most.

    Z0re on
  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    I'd imagine that ranged classes would be superior, generally speaking. You don't have to run around chasing mobs in order to hit them. Gunslinger [aka Sniper] should be better than Sentinel [aka Marauder].

  • Silas BrownSilas Brown Registered User regular
    So what are early gunslinger rotations looking like for you guys? I've done three Esseles runs and I feel like I could be doing better.

    Right now I focus on smaller guys... if they're clustered, I started with a grenade, then spam my charged blast. For bigger guys, I use my sabotage bomb and then spam my charged blast. For bosses, I put up the DoT, use my Aimed Shot when it's up, and then spam my Charged Blast, using Smuggler's Luck when necessary.

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  • DecoyDecoy Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The more I look at the Smuggler's Scoundrel Scrapper Tree, the more I wish it was a wee bit more optimized. For the most part it seems ok, but there are a few odd choices for higher talents. They obviously want me to play as a close up melee character with things like...

    Upper Hand triggering off of Blaster Whip/Shoot First/Buffed Sucker Punch (4m ranges).
    Buffs to Blaster Whip, Back Blast, Shoot First (4m ranges).
    The level 20 skill Sucker Punch (4m range).

    But then they do things like...

    4th tier talent Stopping Power: Why would I want to only immobilize a target I'm already in melee range with when I already have Dirty Kick to stun them.
    5th tier Turn the Tables: 3% boost to bleeds when the only non-cover based bleed we have til 48 is Vital Shot.
    Quick Getaway in the 4th tier of Dirty Fighting.

    So for a good while, it seems like the basics are just:

    Stealth in proc'ing Upper Hand with Shoot First or Blaster Whip.
    Maintain Upper Hand via Blaster Whip or Buffed Sucker Punch w/ an active bleed.
    Keep Pugnacity rolling.
    Throw in free Back Blasts and Quick Shots as filler.

    Obviously that's extremely basic and doesn't factor in utility, but it seems like pretty much what I should be doing. Any other Scrappers out there that can help point out anything I'm missing, I'd really appreciate the help.

    Decoy on
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  • XaviarXaviar Registered User regular
    Anyone have a good Sniper build?

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  • MelksterMelkster Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    That's one of the thing that excites me about the sniper. There seems to be tons of room for figuring out what's optimal.

    A cursory look is pretty obvious: One tree is about sustained damage with DoTs. Another is about straight-up burst damage with huge crits and long cooldowns. Another is about AOE. But there's tons of crossover between the three talent trees that finding an optimum build should be an interesting endeavor.

    Melkster on
  • SpenzkriegSpenzkrieg Registered User
    Thinking about scrapping my scoundrel to re-roll as a gunslinger. I'll be using this as a solo build but will be rolling the standard thoroughfare of FPs and will want to do PvP and raids end-game.



    Thoughts?

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