It's a good thing they can teleport so they only have to attack when their opponent doesn't want to
well except of course that if you blink away from a roach it is back up on your ass taking potshots again in about 2 seconds because it has stupid fast movespeed.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
To stop the forcefield on ramp thing Zerg's just need to spread their units around their base.
Just like Protoss against Terran drops!
or terran against protoss with warp prisms!
of course the difference is against toss you better have foreseen the amount of army at each place because there's no army repositioning to be done. (if they get a sentry close to the ramp)
It's a good thing they can teleport so they only have to attack when their opponent doesn't want to
well except of course that if you blink away from a roach it is back up on your ass taking potshots again in about 2 seconds because it has stupid fast movespeed.
A roach will pull 2 roachlengths ahead of a stalker if they walk side by side the length of the entire maximum map length in Starcraft 2. For all intents and purposes its the same speed as a stalker not even considering blink.
redraptor on
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
Smart Zergs stutter step their roaches all up in yo shit so that even if you are blink microing, they can still reach the hurt ones at the back.
They have the same movespeed, if you have things controlled right they actually can not do that unless you are fighting on creep like a brain scientist.
But most protoss just leaves their stalker balls unminded while they pan over to their 12 inactive gateways on one base and think hrmmm I need more of these to keep that money down.
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
They have the same movespeed, if you have things controlled right they actually can not do that unless you are fighting on creep like a brain scientist.
But most protoss just leaves their stalker balls unminded while they pan over to their 12 inactive gateways on one base and think hrmmm I need more of these to keep that money down.
people actually believe this
it's hilarious
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
oh my god protoss
what a fucking joke of a game I just played. up like 70 supply and then I lose.
because of... archons I guess? the big battle where there was the most pathetic fucking trade was against archons.
I guess I made a couple too few ghosts olol
I hardly fucking macro'd perfectly in the half hour game but I was ahead through all of it. all.of.it
so I guess 'm just the worst.
edit - archons and colossus. didn't have enough vikingsa nd ghosts, only 70 supply more so I guess that makes sense
edit - hahahaha 30 more scvs. I also split my army to drop him (this was dumb, he was still on 3 bases, killing that army wins me the game but I ddin't think he'd attack me) at the wrong time. silly me. he keeps his shit together and it's unkillable, I split mine up making him even stronger. than boom just warp in DTs INSTANTLY and my drops are done.
Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
Archons and Collosi are among the most cost and supply efficient units Protoss has, Vari.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
yes I know
I didn't know it was that extreme obviously, or didn't expect exactly what happened to happen. doesn't mean I don't know they are good units
they are actually among the best units in the game, at least against terran. and zerg. and protoss.
edit - alright the game was mine except that I split up my army. sucks but I can look at it as a positive game... he was high ranked masters and I would have won if not for a bad mistake at a bad time with not enough tech at home to save my ass.
could certainly have spent money better, if I remembered to hit 3/3 on time maybe I win the game sooner. not bad all told, just he got that blob and I didn't have enough in one spot to kill it.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
The fact that blink micro is useless against roaches on or off creep if the Zerg player isn't retarded isn't an opinion thats up for debate, its simply a fact.
If a Zerg is not a moron, he will move his roaches up in front of your stalkers and in amongst the formation during the fight, and blink micro is totally useless. The only thing you can do in tht situation is blink the entire ball away and run totally. Blink micro is only useful against bad Zergs who don't fight in melee range with roaches.
Mass roach from a stable Zerg economy is essentially unbeatable without plenty of forcefields to handle it.
The stalkers are the same speed as the roaches, you can move them back when the roaches move up. I won teh debate oh wait I wasn't allowed to have one.
The fact that blink micro is useless against roaches on or off creep if the Zerg player isn't retarded isn't an opinion thats up for debate, its simply a fact.
i missed you
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
Koreans must be retarded, they get a useless upgrade every game
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Nothing about the Protoss race is cost-efficient, Seguer, except for perhaps upgraded chargelots.
In fact the entire Protoss race is built around being cost-inefficient but very very supply efficient.
This is why they are strong in the late-game, when supply, not cost, is the limiting factor on an army.
And also why they are relatively much weaker in the midgame compared to the other races, when cost, and not supply, is the limiting factor on your army.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I don't think that's true at all Dhal, that no unit is cost-efficient?
Koreans must be retarded, they get a useless upgrade every game
Blink is really good even if roaches are on the field. It makes stalkers very very mobile. But against roaches, it does NOT help in a straight up fight.
Koreans must be retarded, they get a useless upgrade every game
Blink is really good even if roaches are on the field. It makes stalkers very very mobile. But against roaches, it does NOT help in a straight up fight.
Koreans must be retarded, they get a useless upgrade every game
Blink is really good even if roaches are on the field. It makes stalkers very very mobile. But against roaches, it does NOT help in a straight up fight.
I would be willing to bet that three hydras would destroy one colossus if they were not stacked. Obviously haven't tested that. And the Colossus is still more expensive than three hydras, by 50 gas.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
My argument probably shouldn't be stated in absolutes, because I haven't tested everything, but I don't think it's particularly disputable that Protoss units are known for supply efficiency and not cost efficiency - That is what causes the entire deathball problem that everyone hates so much.
I don't think that's true at all Dhal, that no unit is cost-efficient?
I don't think any Protoss unit is capable of beating its equal cost in any combination of Zerg or Protoss units.
I'd need a cost guide or something
but I don't know, I'm not sure it's that simple. I guess I'd question that that's a fair way to do it since like, 1 marine blows dick but a bunch of marines is amazing, hence they are cost efficient.
DTs are infinitely cost efficient if we do what you propose since they are infinitely invisible.
edit - I agree that they are quite supply efficient. I just also think they are relatively cost efficient for the most parts. it's still a difficult thing to talk about... a zealot gets zero kills but protects your stalkers for 3 seconds, what is that worth? ... depends.
I don't think that's true at all Dhal, that no unit is cost-efficient?
I don't think any Protoss unit is capable of beating its equal cost in any combination of Zerg or Protoss units.
I'd need a cost guide or something
but I don't know, I'm not sure it's that simple. I guess I'd question that that's a fair way to do it since like, 1 marine blows dick but a bunch of marines is amazing, hence they are cost efficient.
DTs are infinitely cost efficient if we do what you propose since they are infinitely invisible.
You're right, its not that simple and it was a silly thing for me to suggest.
I think, however, that if you were to take three armies, one from each race, and limit their numbers by cost, the Protoss would have the weakest army, whereas if you took three armies and limited them by supply, the Protoss would have the strongest.
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
I would be willing to bet that three hydras would destroy one colossus if they were not stacked. Obviously haven't tested that. And the Colossus is still more expensive than three hydras, by 50 gas.
You're an idiot
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
i think you mean silly goose.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I don't think that's true at all Dhal, that no unit is cost-efficient?
I don't think any Protoss unit is capable of beating its equal cost in any combination of Zerg or Protoss units.
I'd need a cost guide or something
but I don't know, I'm not sure it's that simple. I guess I'd question that that's a fair way to do it since like, 1 marine blows dick but a bunch of marines is amazing, hence they are cost efficient.
DTs are infinitely cost efficient if we do what you propose since they are infinitely invisible.
You're right, its not that simple and it was a silly thing for me to suggest.
I think, however, that if you were to take three armies, one from each race, and limit their numbers by cost, the Protoss would have the weakest army, whereas if you took three armies and limited them by supply, the Protoss would have the strongest.
now this could be a lot of fun haha
I do get your point though, that kind of solidified it for me better. I'm still not sure to what extent I agree.
Ok all. I'm back on the ground after a 5 hour flight. You can stop your inane pusedo-balance rambling about stalkers like you're all copper leaguers from the beta!
>_<
Kambing on
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well except of course that if you blink away from a roach it is back up on your ass taking potshots again in about 2 seconds because it has stupid fast movespeed.
or terran against protoss with warp prisms!
of course the difference is against toss you better have foreseen the amount of army at each place because there's no army repositioning to be done. (if they get a sentry close to the ramp)
A roach will pull 2 roachlengths ahead of a stalker if they walk side by side the length of the entire maximum map length in Starcraft 2. For all intents and purposes its the same speed as a stalker not even considering blink.
But most protoss just leaves their stalker balls unminded while they pan over to their 12 inactive gateways on one base and think hrmmm I need more of these to keep that money down.
people actually believe this
it's hilarious
what a fucking joke of a game I just played. up like 70 supply and then I lose.
because of... archons I guess? the big battle where there was the most pathetic fucking trade was against archons.
I guess I made a couple too few ghosts olol
I hardly fucking macro'd perfectly in the half hour game but I was ahead through all of it. all.of.it
so I guess 'm just the worst.
edit - archons and colossus. didn't have enough vikingsa nd ghosts, only 70 supply more so I guess that makes sense
edit - hahahaha 30 more scvs. I also split my army to drop him (this was dumb, he was still on 3 bases, killing that army wins me the game but I ddin't think he'd attack me) at the wrong time. silly me. he keeps his shit together and it's unkillable, I split mine up making him even stronger. than boom just warp in DTs INSTANTLY and my drops are done.
I didn't know it was that extreme obviously, or didn't expect exactly what happened to happen. doesn't mean I don't know they are good units
they are actually among the best units in the game, at least against terran. and zerg. and protoss.
edit - alright the game was mine except that I split up my army. sucks but I can look at it as a positive game... he was high ranked masters and I would have won if not for a bad mistake at a bad time with not enough tech at home to save my ass.
could certainly have spent money better, if I remembered to hit 3/3 on time maybe I win the game sooner. not bad all told, just he got that blob and I didn't have enough in one spot to kill it.
sorry for ranting
If a Zerg is not a moron, he will move his roaches up in front of your stalkers and in amongst the formation during the fight, and blink micro is totally useless. The only thing you can do in tht situation is blink the entire ball away and run totally. Blink micro is only useful against bad Zergs who don't fight in melee range with roaches.
Mass roach from a stable Zerg economy is essentially unbeatable without plenty of forcefields to handle it.
i missed you
In fact the entire Protoss race is built around being cost-inefficient but very very supply efficient.
This is why they are strong in the late-game, when supply, not cost, is the limiting factor on an army.
And also why they are relatively much weaker in the midgame compared to the other races, when cost, and not supply, is the limiting factor on your army.
Blink is really good even if roaches are on the field. It makes stalkers very very mobile. But against roaches, it does NOT help in a straight up fight.
Also, HTs, DTs, Colossi, Immortals, Carriers and Archons aren't cost efficient? Seriously?
What about when Toss is doing this sorta thing:
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oh right dhal's back. that's what it is.
I am very happy you're back, you help keep this thread going and interesting.
those roaches aren't doing the thing dhal said causes a problem against blink
I don't think any Protoss unit is capable of beating its equal cost in any combination of Zerg or Terran units.
I would be willing to bet that three hydras would destroy one colossus if they were not stacked. Obviously haven't tested that. And the Colossus is still more expensive than three hydras, by 50 gas.
edit: oh, thought of another good one!
voids vs blords
I'd need a cost guide or something
but I don't know, I'm not sure it's that simple. I guess I'd question that that's a fair way to do it since like, 1 marine blows dick but a bunch of marines is amazing, hence they are cost efficient.
DTs are infinitely cost efficient if we do what you propose since they are infinitely invisible.
edit - I agree that they are quite supply efficient. I just also think they are relatively cost efficient for the most parts. it's still a difficult thing to talk about... a zealot gets zero kills but protects your stalkers for 3 seconds, what is that worth? ... depends.
You're right, its not that simple and it was a silly thing for me to suggest.
I think, however, that if you were to take three armies, one from each race, and limit their numbers by cost, the Protoss would have the weakest army, whereas if you took three armies and limited them by supply, the Protoss would have the strongest.
You're an idiot
now this could be a lot of fun haha
I do get your point though, that kind of solidified it for me better. I'm still not sure to what extent I agree.
how dare you
wait I mean how are you
>_<