Hot damn is Super Castlevania IV overrated

cr0w

As a straight-up remake of the original Castlevania, SCIV succeeds. As anything else, it's not very enjoyable. When it was released, it was great, and the Mode 7 effects were just short of mind-blowing, but if you're just now playing it for the first time, it's easy not to like it at all. I first played it at length after SOTN came out, because I didn't have an SNES at the time SCIV came out and just never got around to it, so I can see exactly what TSR is talking about.

That being said, Rondo of Blood vs. SCIV is almost apples vs. oranges for the limitations of the SNES compared to the PC Engine alone, but as others have mentioned, there were also two years separating them. It's still a very important game in the overall Castlevania series, just not a very good one when you compare it to others.

TheSonicRetard

cr0w wrote:

As a straight-up remake of the original Castlevania, SCIV succeeds. As anything else, it's not very enjoyable. When it was released, it was great, and the Mode 7 effects were just short of mind-blowing, but if you're just now playing it for the first time, it's easy not to like it at all. I first played it at length after SOTN came out, because I didn't have an SNES at the time SCIV came out and just never got around to it, so I can see exactly what TSR is talking about.

That being said, Rondo of Blood vs. SCIV is almost apples vs. oranges for the limitations of the SNES compared to the PC Engine alone, but as others have mentioned, there were also two years separating them. It's still a very important game in the overall Castlevania series, just not a very good one when you compare it to others.

The thing about Rondo is that it really doesn't do anything new. It's basically Castlevania 3, with several years of refinement in between. With that in mind, I think that, in all the ways in which Rondo is superior to Castlevania IV, that Castlevania 3 is superior in the same ways.

Henroid

cr0w wrote:

As a straight-up remake of the original Castlevania, SCIV succeeds. As anything else, it's not very enjoyable.

This is what confuses the shit out of me. To me, a remake incorporates the original game's layout as much as possible, while polishing it up where it needs it. The Playstation release (I forget the title, I owned it when I lived in California) was an actual remake, in that regard. As far as I can tell, SCV4 is a retelling of Simon Belmont's fight. But it certainly isn't a remake. It's a disingenuous description people need to stop using.

Magus`

SCIV sounds to me like one of those games people are amazed with cause it was new and exciting, like FFVII. Not to say FFVII was a bad game, but it hasn't aged well.

hadoken

Yeah, the game isn't the most fantastic when played now, but it is important to consider the context it comes from. It was great back then, and I actually love the graphics still. Sprites <3

Henroid

Magus` wrote:

SCIV sounds to me like one of those games people are amazed with cause it was new and exciting, like FFVII. Not to say FFVII was a bad game, but it hasn't aged well.

The Castlevania game that hasn't aged well, for me, is Symphony of the Night.

TheSonicRetard

Henroid wrote:

cr0w wrote:

As a straight-up remake of the original Castlevania, SCIV succeeds. As anything else, it's not very enjoyable.

This is what confuses the shit out of me. To me, a remake incorporates the original game's layout as much as possible, while polishing it up where it needs it. The Playstation release (I forget the title, I owned it when I lived in California) was an actual remake, in that regard. As far as I can tell, SCV4 is a retelling of Simon Belmont's fight. But it certainly isn't a remake. It's a disingenuous description people need to stop using.

I can see where the claims of it being a remake come in, however. I don't think anyone is actually saying it's the same game as castlevania I, but to be sure it retreads a lot of ground. I view it as a spiritual remake in the same way that Wonderboy in Monster World is a spiritual remake of Monster Land, or how Super Metroid is a spiritual remake of the original. They're technically sequels, they do a lot of new things (especially with regards to Super Metroid), yet they retread enough ground that, as a whole, it renders a playthrough of the original lagrely unneccessary save for super fans of the series.

Chen

Henroid wrote:

Chen wrote:

snip

Is that in-game music, or is that the arrangement? Either way, pretty rad.

It's an in-game arrangement of Ebony Wings in Harmony of Dispair, which was originally arranged for Order of Ecclesia, the one I linked earlier in the thread.

Another favourite of mine is this arrangement of the Castle Corridor in Aria of Sorrow:

Magus`

Henroid wrote:

Magus` wrote:

SCIV sounds to me like one of those games people are amazed with cause it was new and exciting, like FFVII. Not to say FFVII was a bad game, but it hasn't aged well.

The Castlevania game that hasn't aged well, for me, is Symphony of the Night.

SotN is fun if way too easy.

Henroid

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Henroid wrote:

cr0w wrote:

As a straight-up remake of the original Castlevania, SCIV succeeds. As anything else, it's not very enjoyable.

This is what confuses the shit out of me. To me, a remake incorporates the original game's layout as much as possible, while polishing it up where it needs it. The Playstation release (I forget the title, I owned it when I lived in California) was an actual remake, in that regard. As far as I can tell, SCV4 is a retelling of Simon Belmont's fight. But it certainly isn't a remake. It's a disingenuous description people need to stop using.

I can see where the claims of it being a remake come in, however. I don't think anyone is actually saying it's the same game as castlevania I, but to be sure it retreads a lot of ground. I view it as a spiritual remake in the same way that Wonderboy in Monster World is a spiritual remake of Monster Land, or how Super Metroid is a spiritual remake of the original. They're technically sequels, they do a lot of new things (especially with regards to Super Metroid), yet they retread enough ground that, as a whole, it renders a playthrough of the original lagrely unneccessary save for super fans of the series.

If it's all about spiritual succession, then fine, I can agree to that.

Though I take issue with your comparison to Super Metroid; Super Metroid added a LOT to the game, wheras Castlevania IV was just "look how cool the SNES is." <_<

Aeyther

I wouldn't say SC4 is overrated, as far as the older 8/16 bit games go, it definitely ranks as one of the top ones. While it's not as hard as Castlevania1-3 or Rondo, it seems to have just enough difficulty to keep one interested instead of walking away after the 10th game over. I don't understand why it seems "lifeless", the opening scene is great, the music is good, and stages all are Castlevania'y. Personally, while I do like C1 and C3, I have a much better time replaying SC4 than banging my head against the wall trying to refinish C1 or C3. As far as the music goes, I will say that SC4's version of Bloody Tears is not my favorite. However, the levels each have some great music.

Favorites

Spoiler:

cr0w

Henroid wrote:

cr0w wrote:

As a straight-up remake of the original Castlevania, SCIV succeeds. As anything else, it's not very enjoyable.

This is what confuses the shit out of me. To me, a remake incorporates the original game's layout as much as possible, while polishing it up where it needs it. The Playstation release (I forget the title, I owned it when I lived in California) was an actual remake, in that regard. As far as I can tell, SCV4 is a retelling of Simon Belmont's fight. But it certainly isn't a remake. It's a disingenuous description people need to stop using.

Castlevania Chronicles.

As far as the remake thing goes, it's a retelling of Castlevania 1's story, so I consider it a remake. Just my personal view of it.

Henroid

Chen wrote:

Henroid wrote:

Chen wrote:

snip

Is that in-game music, or is that the arrangement? Either way, pretty rad.

It's an in-game arrangement of Ebony Wings in Harmony of Dispair, which was originally arranged for Order of Ecclesia, the one I linked earlier in the thread.

Another favourite of mine is this arrangement of the Castle Corridor in Aria of Sorrow:

*snip*

Chen, it's me you're talking to - I know where the song originally hails from.

I just wanted to know if this was a straight-from-the-game track or the composed version (which Michiru Yamane does a lot and <3 her).

Listening to this one right now, I'll get to the Castle Corridor music soon:

TheSonicRetard

Magus` wrote:

SCIV sounds to me like one of those games people are amazed with cause it was new and exciting, like FFVII. Not to say FFVII was a bad game, but it hasn't aged well.

I'd say that pretty much sums up my views on the game as well. I'm sure, back in 1990, that this game made an incredible impression on people (as evident by it's lofty status today), but I think, under all the glam, it's not that great of a game.

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly put myself in a of-the-time mindset, being that I'm a giant retro gamer. I've been writing 5 page reviews of Amiga games lately, so I'm certainly taking nothing for granted (speaking of which - Guardian on the Amiga is one of the most impressive titles I've seen in a long time. One of the few games which actually wowed me).

Henroid

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Magus` wrote:

SCIV sounds to me like one of those games people are amazed with cause it was new and exciting, like FFVII. Not to say FFVII was a bad game, but it hasn't aged well.

I'd say that pretty much sums up my views on the game as well. I'm sure, back in 1990, that this game made an incredible impression on people (as evident by it's lofty status today), but I think, under all the glam, it's not that great of a game.

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly put myself in a of-the-time mindset, being that I'm a giant retro gamer. I've been writing 5 page reviews of Amiga games lately, so I'm certainly taking nothing for granted (speaking of which - Guardian on the Amiga is one of the most impressive titles I've seen in a long time. One of the few games which actually wowed me).

I had to put myself in the mindset of a decade ago when I played Deus Ex for the first time earlier this year. It's definitely a skill someone has to have to be able to look at things from within the era it originally came out in. That said, even when I play CV4 in that mindset of "early Super Nintendo era," it just... doesn't give me the same drive as other games did.

TheSonicRetard

Henroid wrote:

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Magus` wrote:

SCIV sounds to me like one of those games people are amazed with cause it was new and exciting, like FFVII. Not to say FFVII was a bad game, but it hasn't aged well.

I'd say that pretty much sums up my views on the game as well. I'm sure, back in 1990, that this game made an incredible impression on people (as evident by it's lofty status today), but I think, under all the glam, it's not that great of a game.

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly put myself in a of-the-time mindset, being that I'm a giant retro gamer. I've been writing 5 page reviews of Amiga games lately, so I'm certainly taking nothing for granted (speaking of which - Guardian on the Amiga is one of the most impressive titles I've seen in a long time. One of the few games which actually wowed me).

I had to put myself in the mindset of a decade ago when I played Deus Ex for the first time earlier this year. It's definitely a skill someone has to have to be able to look at things from within the era it originally came out in. That said, even when I play CV4 in that mindset of "early Super Nintendo era," it just... doesn't give me the same drive as other games did.

Bingo, that's the exact reason I feel this game is overrated. I just don't think it's a good game. I don't think it's a bad game either - a bad game is one with fundamental flaws, one that quite literally doesn't work. Castlevania IV avoids that. But it's not a good game, let alone the best in the series.

EDIT: If you want an example of a bad game - I picked up Shaq Fu for the Amiga 1200. Shaq Fu is already terrible, but the Amiga 1200 port uses 1 goddamn button.

Chen

Henroid wrote:

I just wanted to know if this was a straight-from-the-game track or the composed version (which Michiru Yamane does a lot and <3 her).

I... don't understand. It's from the OST so I assume it's from the game itself, although I haven't played Harmony of Despair myself. It's composed by Yasuhiro Ichihashi and arranged by Atsushi Sato.

Henroid

Chen wrote:

Henroid wrote:

I just wanted to know if this was a straight-from-the-game track or the composed version (which Michiru Yamane does a lot and <3 her).

I... don't understand. It's from the OST so I assume it's from the game itself, although I haven't played Harmony of Despair myself. It's composed by Yasuhiro Ichihashi and arranged by Atsushi Sato.

Things get mislabeled on YouTube a lot, so I have trouble identifying what terms actually mean. Sometimes people post OST, and then it's a super-arrange and not the actual game music, and sometimes people post OST and it is indeed the game music. I'm asking because there's no continuity.

Henroid

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Henroid wrote:

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Magus` wrote:

SCIV sounds to me like one of those games people are amazed with cause it was new and exciting, like FFVII. Not to say FFVII was a bad game, but it hasn't aged well.

I'd say that pretty much sums up my views on the game as well. I'm sure, back in 1990, that this game made an incredible impression on people (as evident by it's lofty status today), but I think, under all the glam, it's not that great of a game.

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly put myself in a of-the-time mindset, being that I'm a giant retro gamer. I've been writing 5 page reviews of Amiga games lately, so I'm certainly taking nothing for granted (speaking of which - Guardian on the Amiga is one of the most impressive titles I've seen in a long time. One of the few games which actually wowed me).

I had to put myself in the mindset of a decade ago when I played Deus Ex for the first time earlier this year. It's definitely a skill someone has to have to be able to look at things from within the era it originally came out in. That said, even when I play CV4 in that mindset of "early Super Nintendo era," it just... doesn't give me the same drive as other games did.

Bingo, that's the exact reason I feel this game is overrated. I just don't think it's a good game. I don't think it's a bad game either - a bad game is one with fundamental flaws, one that quite literally doesn't work. Castlevania IV avoids that. But it's not a good game, let alone the best in the series.

And the thing is, I'm comparing it to, say, Mega Man X, Super Metroid, Super Mario World, A Link to the Past... all of those did something for their respective series. Castlevania 4 didn't bring anything to the table, and that's why it fails to excite me. I mean, along with the music and aesthetic.

TheSonicRetard wrote:

EDIT: If you want an example of a bad game - I picked up Shaq Fu for the Amiga 1200. Shaq Fu is already terrible, but the Amiga 1200 port uses 1 goddamn button.

That's hilarious as shit. :^:

Henroid

Harmony of Despair's version of Order of the Demon doesn't really impress me. The arranged version from OoE is superior. I can see how some will see this to be similar or "the same" but it's not.

TheSonicRetard

Henroid wrote:

TheSonicRetard wrote:

EDIT: If you want an example of a bad game - I picked up Shaq Fu for the Amiga 1200. Shaq Fu is already terrible, but the Amiga 1200 port uses 1 goddamn button.

That's hilarious as shit. :^:

Mr. Grinch can attest for how terrible the Amiga port of Shaq Fu is. I mean... the controls are as follows:

Fast Kick: Down + Left
Power Kick: Down + Right
Tant: Button + Left
Fast Punch: Button + Down + Left
Power Punch: Button + Down + Right
run: Button + Right
block: Button + down

Awful awful awful. What's even more incredible is that I got the game alongside another game called Shadow Fighter, which is also a 1-button fighting game for the Amiga... except that game rules. It's awesome. A vastly underrated gem.

As for Megaman X, I also got that game for christmas, and, despite having played it in the past on both my DOS PC and renting the SNES version a few times, it's still awesome. A great game, and a true SNES classic.

DisruptorX2

Castlevania 4 is...bleh. I don't even remember the music, whereas I can hear the NES music instantly in my head when I think of it. The gameplay was forgettable, too.

At least you could shoot the whip in different directions though. You couldn't do that in Dracula X.

RainbowDespair

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

Monsty

TheSonicRetard wrote:

The idea that you're so offended that I made a discussion on a game I got for christmas plays into my claim that there is massive group think associated with this game.

There's no conspiracy here. Many people like the game a lot more than you do. That's all. You've obviously made up your mind(with proper research, I must say) so there's not really any discussion here. I can't make you like the gameplay, graphics, or music more by talking about them.

TheSonicRetard

RainbowDespair wrote:

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

You are really not in tuned with the reception of Castlevania IV if you think the concensus is that level headed. There are numerous review outlets which, to this day, claim it's the best in the entire series.

How can you call it trolling if there is no one to troll? Going against the grain is not trolling.

EDIT: As to your sarcastic hyperbole: I have been tempted many times to make a thread about how completely overrated UN Squadron is, however. Especially when Screw Attack claimed it was the best shmup of all time.

RainbowDespair

TheSonicRetard wrote:

RainbowDespair wrote:

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

You are really not in tuned with the reception of Castlevania IV if you think the concensus is that level headed. There are numerous review outlets which, to this day, claim it's the best in the entire series.

Links please.

As to your sarcastic hyperbole: I have been tempted many times to make a thread about how completely overrated UN Squadron is, however. Especially when Screw Attack claimed it was the best shmup of all time.

Okay, I'm seeing a pattern. You don't like SNES music. U.N. Squadron isn't anything too special as far as gameplay but it has a fantastic soundtrack. Likewise, the best thing about Super Castlevania is the soundtrack (although other entries in the series are even better in that regard).

Darmak

I don't know, Castlevania IV happens to be my favorite game in the series, with 2, 1, 3, and all the metroidvania games behind it (in that order).

edit: and before anyone gets the idea in their head that I dislike any of the Castlevania games, I don't. Every one that I've played I've loved. I just love them in that order is all.

Rorus Raz

I really don't see the point of a thread that is basically a polemic against one game. People are already getting short with each other.

TheSonicRetard

"RainbowDespair wrote:

Links please.

That is pathetic of you, but ok:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/angry-video-screwattack/59132
http://www.deltaattack.com/2010/08/01/castlevania-the-three-best-in-the-series-2009-and-older/
http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php?topic=45.0
http://www.vgmuseum.com/mrp/rev-cv4.htm

I can keep going on, but at this point why bother since you clearly are ignorant of the reception to the game.

As to your sarcastic hyperbole: I have been tempted many times to make a thread about how completely overrated UN Squadron is, however. Especially when Screw Attack claimed it was the best shmup of all time.

Okay, I'm seeing a pattern. You don't like SNES music. U.N. Squadron isn't anything too special as far as gameplay but it has a fantastic soundtrack. Likewise, the best thing about Super Castlevania is the soundtrack (although other entries in the series are even better in that regard).

Except A) I love SNES music, B) I play the Amiga version of US Squadron because it has superior music, and C) There are much better shmups with better music out there.

A good soundtrack does not a good game make. Especially in Castlevania 4's case, since that is an awful soundtrack.

Dibbit

TheSonicRetard wrote:

RainbowDespair wrote:

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

You are really not in tuned with the reception of Castlevania IV if you think the concensus is that level headed. There are numerous review outlets which, to this day, claim it's the best in the entire series.
<snip>

Are you sure about this?
Not trying to be antagonistic on purpose, but maybe it gave a different impression to the mainly Sega-side console owners.

I can just say as someone who had a (S)NES that Castlevania IV was all about the technical impressive stuff that it could do.
We had all seen (and fallen in love with) the fancy things that games like sonic could do, and we also wanted parallax scrolling, and big sprites, and fancy GFX effects, and Mario on the nes looked old and dated next to the brand new awesome Sonic. Castlevania didn't have the speed,(for some reason, fast sprites = powerful; I was young) but it had all kinda special candy. Things like that idle whip waving thing belmont can do served no purpose that I know of except "Look! Whip physics!

Edit:
1) I might be too far out of the loop, though, because the only castlevania that I've heard of that's "the absolute best" is SotN.

2) Also, I'm getting old, Sonic was already released when castlevania came out, wasn't it? Or am I just inventing things out of whole-cloth?

Henroid

RainbowDespair wrote:

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

Labeling a contradictory opinion as "trolling" is pretty childish.

TheSonicRetard

Rorus Raz wrote:

I really don't see the point of a thread that is basically a polemic against one game. People are already getting short with each other.

But if this was a thread singing the praises of said game...?

It would be one thing if I came in here without any support for my claims. I think I've been thourough and detailed in my assessment. This shouldn't be a forum where all we do is praise games.

RainbowDespair

Henroid wrote:

RainbowDespair wrote:

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

Labeling a contradictory opinion as "trolling" is pretty childish.

TheSonicRetard wrote:

I can only conclude that the hype for this game is a combination of nintendo fanboyism, nostalgia, and group think.

Sounds like trolling to me.

Rorus Raz

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Rorus Raz wrote:

I really don't see the point of a thread that is basically a polemic against one game. People are already getting short with each other.

But if this was a thread singing the praises of said game...?

It would be one thing if I came in here without any support for my claims. I think I've been thourough and detailed in my assessment. This shouldn't be a forum where all we do is praise games.

Because praise of a game generally promotes polite conversation. When the point of a thread is to attack a game, you're basically trolling.

No, this isn't a place solely for praise, but as you can see already the comments in here are getting unfriendly.

Zxerol

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Rorus Raz wrote:

I really don't see the point of a thread that is basically a polemic against one game. People are already getting short with each other.

But if this was a thread singing the praises of said game...?

It would be one thing if I came in here without any support for my claims. I think I've been thourough and detailed in my assessment. This shouldn't be a forum where all we do is praise games.

But why dude? This isn't a recent game where there's an active thread and you're discussing your opinions on the game or anything. This fucker is 20 years old. Why do you feel the need to start up a soapbox to tell everyone that, yes, this old ass game indeed does suck and everyone back in the day was totally wrong.

TheSonicRetard

Dibbit wrote:

TheSonicRetard wrote:

RainbowDespair wrote:

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

You are really not in tuned with the reception of Castlevania IV if you think the concensus is that level headed. There are numerous review outlets which, to this day, claim it's the best in the entire series.
<snip>

Are you sure about this?
Not trying to be antagonistic on purpose, but maybe it gave a different impression to the mainly Sega-side console owners.
I can just say as someone who had a (S)NES that Castlevania IV was all about the technical impressive stuff that it could do.
We had all seen (and fallen in love with) the fancy things that games like sonic could do, and we also wanted parallax scrolling, and big sprites, and fancy GFX effects, and Mario on the nes looked old and dated next to the brand new awesome Sonic. Castlevania didn't have the speed,(for some reason, fast sprites = powerful; I was young) but it had all kinda special candy. Things like that idle whip waving thing belmont can do served no purpose that I know of except "Look! Whip physics!

I didn't pay attention to castlevania when it was new, so I don't know how my view can be labeled as sega-tinted. My impressions of the game are entirely based on modern reputation, and there are countless people who have told me, for years and years, that it's either one of the best in the series, or THE best in the series. I don't agree with either of those claims. As a tech demo, I might be more fogiving, but my main point of contention comes from not the game being bested by the PC Engine game, which came later, but by it being bested by Castlevania III, which ran on weaker hardware and was released years prior.

Henroid

RainbowDespair wrote:

Henroid wrote:

RainbowDespair wrote:

I guess my main problem with this thread and why it feels like trolling is who was overrating Super Castlevania to begin with? I thought the general consensus was that it was a rather good LAUNCH title - it was a decent game that showed off many of the SNES's capabilities, both with its visuals and audio. It's not a timeless classic (although some of the songs are still great).

What's next - starting a thread to say that Gradius 3 and Actraiser are overrated?

Labeling a contradictory opinion as "trolling" is pretty childish.

TheSonicRetard wrote:

I can only conclude that the hype for this game is a combination of nintendo fanboyism, nostalgia, and group think.

Sounds like trolling to me.

He's not saying it to get on people's nerves. That's the objective of trolling. Being insulting is not trolling, Rainbow.

Nostalgia, for the record, is the big thing here, if there's any legitimacy to be pulled from the quote.

chocobolicious

Because negative behavior is harder to support than positive behavior. Though admittedly all your 'support' has been simply opinion. I've not actually seen any factual comparison such as level layouts or actual verifiable mechanical gripes. Basically just, 'I think it sucks because it doesn't impress me' which is pretty difficult a platform to place an entire thread upon. It also sounds a lot like hating for the sake of it being a popular opinion, much like bringing up UN Squadron (Which was, in the end, a fantastic game and still fantastic.)

TheSonicRetard

Rorus Raz wrote:

TheSonicRetard wrote:

Rorus Raz wrote:

I really don't see the point of a thread that is basically a polemic against one game. People are already getting short with each other.

But if this was a thread singing the praises of said game...?

It would be one thing if I came in here without any support for my claims. I think I've been thourough and detailed in my assessment. This shouldn't be a forum where all we do is praise games.

Because praise of a game generally promotes polite conversation. When the point of a thread is to attack a game, you're basically trolling.

No, this isn't a place solely for praise, but as you can see already the comments in here are getting unfriendly.

I'm baffled by the mindset that discussing an oft-praised game, and NOT agreeing is trolling. Do you think I posted this thread to piss people off? I posted this thread because I just got the game and want to discuss my christmas present and what I've been playing, just like every other thread on this forum.

TheSonicRetard

chocobolicious wrote:

Because negative behavior is harder to support than positive behavior. Though admittedly all your 'support' has been simply opinion. I've not actually seen any factual comparison such as level layouts or actual verifiable mechanical gripes. Basically just, 'I think it sucks because it doesn't impress me' which is pretty difficult a platform to place an entire thread upon. It also sounds a lot like hating for the sake of it being a popular opinion, much like bringing up UN Squadron (Which was, in the end, a fantastic game and still fantastic.)

You're not looking hard enough, then, because I broke down AI comparisons and explained Rondo's multi-tiered, multi-path level design vs C4's linear progression.