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[SW:TOR]: PvP Thread. Ilum, you are terrible.

SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as DohaerisRegistered User, ClubPA regular
edited January 2012 in MMO Extravaganza
So! Lets discuss PvP here. I'll fill this with useful resources if someone knows of them. Because I am woefully ignorant. Warzones! Illium! Camping Imperial scum on a frozen ball at the edge of the galaxy!

To kick off, Expertise is the PvP stat. It doesn't seem to appear on gear before 50, but gives a nice boost for PvP in pretty much everything. There are also valor levels, commendations, gear upgrades, the works.

FIGHT
SanderJK wrote:

The #1 PvP tip that I'd put in the OP is:
Go into preferences, find the 'maximum zoom distance' slider. Turn that to 100%. Suddenly you have a lot better view of and oversight of what's going on.

(I don't understand why this is even an option, let alone the default being 15%)




edit: How to PvP!

Basil wrote:
Do not jump down to your goal line when the enemy carrier is ahead and has a charge.

Do root ball carriers on fire.

Do not stand in fire yourself.

Do pass to tanks who seem competent.

Do not jump into the pit when you could be open for a pass.

Do look for a pass when you are in the pit.

Do not flirt with the Hutt.

Do flirt with Rigorous Scholarship.

Do not make a futile attempt to score if the match is a tie and you have the ball in the last thirty seconds. Keep the ball. You will win if you survive.

Do hit your group buff when you respawn.

Do not leave the Void Star doors unattended on defense, even if it seems like a great idea to chase someone ten feet to the right around a corner. It isn't. Really.

Do stare longingly at the doors even in combat. They are tricky and have many suitors. They will find love behind your back if you aren't careful.

Do not stand between a warrior or inquisitor and the yawning gulf of instant death unless you like dying.

Do leave people crippled and slowed in the hallways rather than killing them on a good push to the core.

Do not delude yourself into believing that you might have killed Fexhie if only you hadn't been horribly murdered by his entire team that one time. Fexhie can not die.


Further tips for PvP: http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/o2inc/warzone_guide_strategies_and_tips/

Alderaan
Spoiler:
Huttball!
Spoiler:
VOIDSTAR
Spoiler:

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Posts

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I don't have any resources, but I can tell you I have a LOT to say about how much of a beast I am as a defense specced Guardian in PvP. I dominate all three warzones as long as I am queued with one of my guild healers. We routinely hold Alderaan points and doors in Void Star in 2v4 or 2v5 fights and still can't be killed. It pretty much takes perfect coordination to kill us, which nobody has unless they're a 4 man premade that are all highly skilled.

    Oh, and Huttball. Let me tell you about Huttball. Yeah, if I get the ball, I'm pretty much going to score. And to hurt your feelings even worse i'm going to make sure i do it by force leaping to the dumbass on your team who just respawned from death and is on the goal line. When we're 50 and my sage healers have the life grip thing they get and I have Guardian leap to use to jump to my ally who is chilling by your goal line, yeah, I predict at least one match where we skunk Empire 6-0 within less than 5 minutes. We almost get them that fast in most of my games now and I'm only 38.

  • BradicusMaximusBradicusMaximus The quackiest of psys Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    One little tidbit of info I can give to people who are still somewhat new to pvp, spend your commendations before you get 1k of them. They cap at 1k so theres a chance you could be missing out on the currency if you don't pay attention to your currency tab. Start spending them on mercenary token which is basically the 2nd tier of currency for pvp. After saving up a bit you can start buying those (purple?) bags which will drop some items and I think its 3 of the 3rd tier currency. I'm at work right now but I can give definite info when I get home.

    E: Also, the airlifts in huttball can kiss my ass

    BradicusMaximus on
    Ant000
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    As a BH Merc, Huttball can DIAF. I don't have a sprint to quickly run the ball, can't stop knockbacks, and if I get to the firetrap and have to stop, I'm hosed.

    I so prefer the other two it's not funny. And yet, all I seem to get is Huttball.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    One little tidbit of info I can give to people who are still somewhat new to pvp, spend your commendations before you get 1k of them. They cap at 1k so theres a chance you could be missing out on the currency if you don't pay attention to your currency tab. Start spending them on mercenary token which is basically the 2nd tier of currency for pvp. After saving up a bit you can start buying those (purple?) bags which will drop some items and I think its 3 of the 3rd tier currency. I'm at work right now but I can give definite info when I get home.

    E: Also, the airlifts in huttball can kiss my ass

    FYI, good info on not capping warzone, but merc commendations are not tier 2 currency. They're merely currency that comes from open world pvp and Ilum and such. You can trade from merc to warzone at 30 to 10 as well. They just want to encourage doing both, which is why the bags cost 200 of each. The bags drop the token things that trade in for the actual gear though at 50, you're right about that.

  • BradicusMaximusBradicusMaximus The quackiest of psys Registered User regular
    I actually enjoy huttball as my merc. I usually try and avoid being a ball carrier unless I'm passed to though. I'll either dps my balls off on defense or just try and heal as best I can on offense (I'm running with a bit of a hybrid build. Something like 12/16/0) Its made for mostly really awesome games. My friends and I pubstomp with a guild called Casually Addicted so that might make the experience a little less infuriating.

  • BradicusMaximusBradicusMaximus The quackiest of psys Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    One little tidbit of info I can give to people who are still somewhat new to pvp, spend your commendations before you get 1k of them. They cap at 1k so theres a chance you could be missing out on the currency if you don't pay attention to your currency tab. Start spending them on mercenary token which is basically the 2nd tier of currency for pvp. After saving up a bit you can start buying those (purple?) bags which will drop some items and I think its 3 of the 3rd tier currency. I'm at work right now but I can give definite info when I get home.

    E: Also, the airlifts in huttball can kiss my ass

    FYI, good info on not capping warzone, but merc commendations are not tier 2 currency. They're merely currency that comes from open world pvp and Ilum and such. You can trade from merc to warzone at 30 to 10 as well. They just want to encourage doing both, which is why the bags cost 200 of each. The bags drop the token things that trade in for the actual gear though at 50, you're right about that.

    Thanks for the correction! I felt like I was talking out my ass since I was just reciting from memory.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Assuran wrote:
    As a BH Merc, Huttball can DIAF. I don't have a sprint to quickly run the ball, can't stop knockbacks, and if I get to the firetrap and have to stop, I'm hosed.

    I so prefer the other two it's not funny. And yet, all I seem to get is Huttball.

    You should've picked Powertech so you could use the chain. =) That is almost as awesome in Huttball as my force leap. Or you could just be a healer and win easy by pairing up with a tank. Honestly, anybody makes a good ball carrier if they have a tank guarding them. I keep my guard on my healer, but I swap it to whomever is carrying for my team. Also, if you have a sage/sorc specced into the movement speed when they bubble you, that's awesome for a ball carrier too, but they only take that if they're pvp specced.

  • hoodie13hoodie13 Registered User regular
    I'm finding it difficult to switch back and forth between PVP and PVE, while still being as effective as I could in both. Can't wait for dual specs, whenever they show up.

    Otherwise, anyone have a good Commando spec for being an effective teammate while levelling, without being dependent on companions to do my DPS for me?

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I dunno about commando dps, but there are only about 4 or 5 talent points I'd switch around if I was actually creating a defense Guardian spec for pvp, and they're really not that big of a deal.

    Thing about all the warzones in the game right now though, is everybody is effective if they know what they're doing and help the team. In Huttball, just about everybody gets something useful. Kill ball carriers and use stuns/ccs/knockbacks on people who are trying to knock your carrier down. Alderaan, kill people, take points, and once you have them don't freaking try to get KBs, just make sure you control the other side's healers and at least do 1 damage to anybody who's trying to cap your point. Void star attack, do as much as you can to harass people so one or a couple of your teammates can get the other door before they notice, void star defense freaking AoE the doors and never let them attack.

    Warzones are so much more about people understanding what to do to win and not who is on your team. I'm coordinating on ops chat in warzones usually to help out, and it's not uncommon for my teams to win matches when we have 3 or 4 of our teammates between levels 10 and 15, having hardly any of their good abilities, if the other team doesn't coordinate.

  • SpenzkriegSpenzkrieg Registered User
    hoodie13 wrote:
    I'm finding it difficult to switch back and forth between PVP and PVE, while still being as effective as I could in both. Can't wait for dual specs, whenever they show up.

    Otherwise, anyone have a good Commando spec for being an effective teammate while levelling, without being dependent on companions to do my DPS for me?

    What's your level?


    Regardless, hop over to the DPS thread. There's a pretty good convo about Commandos going on over there.

    RS: Eide
    RC: Ais
  • TurambarTurambar Captain 'Crawler of the Warship XavierRegistered User regular
    One little tidbit of info I can give to people who are still somewhat new to pvp, spend your commendations before you get 1k of them.

    Thanks for the heads up
    I was going to save 1400 points and buy the entire level 40 set once I dinged, but I guess I'll buy a few items early

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  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Warzones are so much more about people understanding what to do to win and not who is on your team. I'm coordinating on ops chat in warzones usually to help out, and it's not uncommon for my teams to win matches when we have 3 or 4 of our teammates between levels 10 and 15, having hardly any of their good abilities, if the other team doesn't coordinate.

    Consider this limed.

    On my level 15 Sniper alt, I was in Alderaan with an assassin guildmate. The two of us, just the two of us, managed to keep the other side and their five man zerg from taking the center turret for a good three minutes, until the match ended. I'd run in, pop off shots at anyone trying to take the node, and get killed, then the assassin would run in and smack anyone trying to take the node. By the time they'd killed him, I was back, popping shots at anyone touching the node. Rinse repeat, until the match was over.

    The matches can and are often won by people who keep their eyes on the prize, and are even more fotne loss by people ignoring the objectives in favor of trying to farm kills.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, I feel I should warn you: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • SpenzkriegSpenzkrieg Registered User
    edited December 2011
    Decomposey wrote:
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Warzones are so much more about people understanding what to do to win and not who is on your team. I'm coordinating on ops chat in warzones usually to help out, and it's not uncommon for my teams to win matches when we have 3 or 4 of our teammates between levels 10 and 15, having hardly any of their good abilities, if the other team doesn't coordinate.

    Consider this limed.

    On my level 15 Sniper alt, I was in Alderaan with an assassin guildmate. The two of us, just the two of us, managed to keep the other side and their five man zerg from taking the center turret for a good three minutes, until the match ended. I'd run in, pop off shots at anyone trying to take the node, and get killed, then the assassin would run in and smack anyone trying to take the node. By the time they'd killed him, I was back, popping shots at anyone touching the node. Rinse repeat, until the match was over.

    The matches can and are often won by people who keep their eyes on the prize, and are even more fotne loss by people ignoring the objectives in favor of trying to farm kills.

    That and it seems that most Republic players are PvE folks who PvP casually or just to get commendations to buy a new set of gear.



    I don't know why, exactly, and it was this way in Beta too. I guess the lollipop goodguy mentality doesn't carry over to FROGDOG FROGDOG FROGDOG. Every match it seems like the same. Huttball? 2/3 of the Republic team is clusterfucking in the middle. With no point. Alderaan? 2/3 of the Republic team is clusterfucking in the middle while the Empire controls the peripheral turrets and the remaining 1/3 of the team go in one at a time and get destroyed.

    Spenzkrieg on
    RS: Eide
    RC: Ais
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    That's just anecdotal though. My PvE server(Shii-Cho) sometimes I run through 10 warzones in a row where we 6-0 Empire in Huttball, 3 cap them on Alderaan, don't even let them get past the first set of doors in Void Star, etc. Then sometimes it's the opposite.

    My point is there are good and bad players on both sides, but on my server, Republic is definitely not worse at PvP in general. Of course it was the same in WoW. Everybody acted like alliance had the dumb kids if they played horde, and vice versa. Instead, there are just good and shitty players on both sides and whatever you have seen most recently and most often is what shapes your perception.

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I know we have about 30 billion Sorcerers around here, so let me confirm what you already know: The Madness tree is fantastic for PVP. I often roll into Warzones with Beneb, a marauder around my level (~32 & 34 last night when we queued), and previously when I was specced for lightning he'd dominate the damage & kill totals in the match and I'd be struggling to stay alive. Last night, after swapping to madness, it turned into an actual competition. One Void Star match I topped damage for both sides with 200k, he had 198k, and the next guy was 150k. Instant cast CC? No cooldown Force Lightning which frequently procs instant casts for other spells? Yeah, go Madness if you want to melt faces in PVP.

    Bobble on
  • ShadaXoraNShadaXoraN Registered User
    In Huttball, Do NOT stand at the top of the middle first ramp above your goalline and try to rain death upon your opponents, a JK/SW will forceleap into your ass and you just gave it an open door to said goal.

    893c32626ed79cca.png
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    ShadaXoraN wrote:
    In Huttball, Do NOT stand at the top of the middle first ramp above your goalline and try to rain death upon your opponents, a JK/SW will forceleap into your ass and you just gave it an open door to said goal.

    My favorite is when I'm getting ~40m from scoring, and an imperial who just died actually thinks it's in his best interest to come out of the respawn zone instead of just fucking chilling there and giving his team a chance to stop me. I leap him as soon as he is on the goal line and do a high five emote.

    Joshmvii on
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Registered User
    Joshmvii wrote:
    ShadaXoraN wrote:
    In Huttball, Do NOT stand at the top of the middle first ramp above your goalline and try to rain death upon your opponents, a JK/SW will forceleap into your ass and you just gave it an open door to said goal.

    My favorite is when I'm getting ~40m from scoring, and an imperial who just died actually thinks it's in his best interest to come out of the respawn zone instead of just fucking chilling there and giving his team a chance to stop me. I leap him as soon as he is on the goal line and do a high five emote.

    This, all day long.

    I don't even rely on the stupid air vents or the ramp on the other side of those initial platforms to get up to the main paths in Huttball anymore, there is almost always some dumbass to Force Charge to. If he's the only one up there I'll knock him off for good measure, or else I'll save my push for anyone with a lightsaber. Best thing that happens though? It's when you're waiting for the last flame vent before the goal line to stop, and there are people waiting on the other side. (Usually requires an Inquisitor/Consular) Force charge somebody near their goal line, use your AoE slow (free with talents!) and run past them before their knockdown wears off. They'll likely be spamming their knockback, but if you can get behind them before they use it you get a nice push to the goal.

    @Joshmvii - I'm playing the mirror of your spec and class on Empire, and have a pretty good pocket healer I usually queue up with. (Unless he's reading this, then he's terrible and need to heal me more.) We do very well most of the time, but I'm not sure I can share your positive experiences with low-level players. So far on my server (an Empire side west coast PVP server) the correlation between level and ignorant awfulness is very strong - if we have more than 3-4 players in the 10-20 range it is almost always a guaranteed loss. No amount of explanation helps when you have people that think every battleground is team deathmatch.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Oh no doubt, most of the people who are level 10 to 15 clearly don't know what the fuck is going on and will just fight in the middle. I just mean I have had matches where we had 3 or 4 of them, they listened in ops chat, and we still won against a team with everybody 25+, which I didn't think would even be mechanically possible. It's just a testament to how well designed the war zones are, because just the abilities alone are not enough to make you win without coordination and doing the right stuff.

    I had a funny ass match yesterday where a Jedi Guardian on my team(level 50 and in some of the purple PvP gear) was just being a complete dumb shit. For of all, his name was Tidus, and as soon as we're prepping he starts typing in ops condescending arrogant shit like "1 go left and all else go mid, do this we win, and if you don't we'll lose because you all fucking suck" and i'm face palming so hard, because usually I put in there like "I'm tank and me and my healer are going to hold left, you guys take either mid/right and we'll let you know if we need help or whatever." More bees with honey and all that.

    Anyway, he was just doing terribly, and at one point he starts talking shit to me in ops chat, saying I'm terrible and this and that and how me and my healer are assholes for holding left(we had 2/3 at this point btw) At this point I've done about 70k damage and he had done 90ish, but I also had about 40k in protection. He was like "You're so shit look at your damage," to which I say "I'm a tank, and I'm holding my objective, but thanks anyway." He just keeps going, so I decide it's time I must troll him a bit. The following is what happened next in ops chat:

    Ashmadai(me): It's crazy man, me and Eld win like 80% of our matches when we're not grouped with dudes named after FFX characters. We probably need Auron in here too.
    Tidus: Yeah whatever u suck.
    Me: Dude, I'm going to force push you into the farplane.
    Tidus: Dude you can't hit allies
    Me: Oh crap, I just figured out why you're so bad. You're specced for blitzball!
    Tidus: No i'm not. god u nub, do ur research and read a website.
    Me: No way can we win with only 7 people and then a memory on our team.

    I'm not sure he even actually understood any of it, and maybe his name was just a coincidence, but either way, we won in spite of him. =P

    Joshmvii on
  • hoodie13hoodie13 Registered User regular
    that angers me, because now i want to make a character named Tidus and have him be awesome at huttball

    3DS Friend Code: 4398-9162-1823 ||| PSN: HoodieThirteen ||| XBL: Torn Hoodie ||| @hoodiethirteen
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    If you make him and you're willing to make your legacy on that server "Jecht-Shot" and take a screenshot of you dancing while holding the huttball, I will send you a money order IRL just for the entertainment.

  • hoodie13hoodie13 Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    If you make him and you're willing to make your legacy on that server "Jecht-Shot" and take a screenshot of you dancing while holding the huttball, I will send you a money order IRL just for the entertainment.

    I just got my legacy last night, otherwise...

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  • SpenzkriegSpenzkrieg Registered User
    To the RC folk I hounded in Alderaan:

    I'm sorry. Kind of.
    Okay, not really.


    Sincerely,
    Captain Eide
    <The Magnes Legacy>
    Rigorous Scholarship

    RS: Eide
    RC: Ais
  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    We are plotting your death at this very moment, sir.

    9KmX8eN.jpg
  • SonorkSonork New Westminster CanadaRegistered User regular
    I just got Life grip equivilant on my SI. Shit is great in Huttball. You can pull allies out of fire, up ontop a walkway or into the end zone.

    Nintendo Network ID: Sonork1
  • BradicusMaximusBradicusMaximus The quackiest of psys Registered User regular
    Played a game of huttball today. I'm standing on the 2nd tier of platforms trying to take down a couple healers. As I'm standing there I get pushed by someone into a fire pit. Coincidentally a jedi leaps on me at the time I start to fall and lands in the fire with. We burned together holding hands.

  • AvynteAvynte Registered User regular
    Standing on the goal line, shouting for a pass.

    Mr. Jugg decides to force leap over my head from the catwalks into the enemy spawn.

    welp

    ECOED.jpg
  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo FF69B4 Registered User, Moderator mod
    Wait, are you a Sorc or Assassin?

    Because I just got Force Pull, and I don't think it works on allies...

    73zrBvC.png
  • override367override367 misogynist/MRA/socially irresponsible Registered User regular
    I like huttball

    so many ways to make people die in fire

    XBLIVE: Biggestoverride
    League of Legends: override367
  • SonorkSonork New Westminster CanadaRegistered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    Wait, are you a Sorc or Assassin?

    Because I just got Force Pull, and I don't think it works on allies...

    Sorc's works on allies. I guess assassin's don't. Makes sense honestly.

    Nintendo Network ID: Sonork1
  • RialeRiale Registered User
    I have to say, I'm getting kinda tired of huttball. It has gotten so bad that I'm considering defecting to the Republic just so I can have a more balanced selection of warzones when I queue.

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  • BradicusMaximusBradicusMaximus The quackiest of psys Registered User regular
    You guys be trippin. Even when I'm getting stomped I enjoy huttball.

  • RialeRiale Registered User
    Huttball just reminds me of WSG from WoW. They both have a lot of the same problems, too. Namely, the design of the match values certain classes wayyyy over others. I prefer designs like the Alderaan warzone, because I feel like more classes have a role within it.

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  • BradicusMaximusBradicusMaximus The quackiest of psys Registered User regular
    Completely understandable. I think I enjoy it so much because its a break from the monotony of capture and control objectives.

    My suggestion for making huttball better? Add boobytrapped floors. Not really sure what should trigger it, maybe random squares are set to different timers, but seeing a ball carrier fall into a pit of spikes would be amazing.

  • hoodie13hoodie13 Registered User regular
    Heh, me and Fexhie (I think? I only really remember the Fex part) and a few others trashed the RC folks a bunch when we played. I enjoy constantly seeing RC in warzones, it's great.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Every class is valuable in Huttball, in different ways. The least valuable are those with no knockback/pull, which I think are scoundrel/operatives, but those classes are also the ones who can either stealth up on the platforms and single handedly waste a sorc/sage who is playing defense in short order, or they can stealth to the goal line undetected to prepare for the tanklips ball carrying Guardian/Jugg to guardian leap/intercede to them for a score.

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User, ClubPA regular
    So I'm fairly certain that level 50 people should be in their own warzone group. I played a game last night where we were simply dominated by a team of 5-6 level 50s, because we could do very little damage to them. This was because they all had PvP gear, whereas we did not, because it's not available before level 50.

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  • RialeRiale Registered User
    edited December 2011
    I think the Huttball arena should be bigger all around. If there was a longer area between center and goal, it would be possible to actually raise a proper defense, rather than games boiling doing to 'which side's juggernaut/guardian gets the ball first'. Also, some kind of manually activated trap via lever or button would be nice. That way, someone could operate the trap as defense and still be useful, and players who aren't running the ball would have a job (eliminate the people operating the trap) they could help out with.
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Every class is valuable in Huttball, in different ways. The least valuable are those with no knockback/pull, which I think are scoundrel/operatives, but those classes are also the ones who can either stealth up on the platforms and single handedly waste a sorc/sage who is playing defense in short order, or they can stealth to the goal line undetected to prepare for the tanklips ball carrying Guardian/Jugg to guardian leap/intercede to them for a score.

    Except that Assassins/Shadows can do both of those things (heavy damage out of stealth/stealth to goal line) but they also have movement speed bonuses, one of the best AoE knockbacks and more utility abilities. In the current PvP game, Operatives/Scoundrels are simply Assassins/Shadows with no utility in exchange for poor healing. They are absolutely less of a help to their team than just about any other class at an equal level.

    Riale on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The game doesn't boil down to which team's guard/jugg gets it first. It boils down to which team is not going to have their players position themselves in the shittiest possible spot when the other team's guard/jugg gets it, and which team uses their control abilities better, and which team is smart enough to kill the guard/jugg's healers instead of focusing only on the tank and never being able to kill him.

    I didn't say assassin/shadow can't do things a scoundrel/op can do, I said they're capable of doing the things I mentioned. It's not unusual for an 8 man warzone to have no shadows/assassins on one team at all, in which case having a scoundrel/op means that's your stealth guy doing these jobs. I'm not saying those ACs don't need some buffs either, and maybe they'll get one, but they're not useless if played right. They just don't do the same things as well as everybody else in Huttball.

    Joshmvii on
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    Huttball seems to primarily reward two strategies

    One, an organized passing game where players are in position and quickly shuffle the ball to the goal line

    Two, a semi-organized ball of angry death where an entire team gets the ball and slowly inches towards the goal line in a wave of fury

    My complaint with Huttball is mostly that option 2 is easy to perform and difficult to stop, and option one is something that is only viable with certain classes who have enough mobility / escape / cc options to pull away from a small group of attackers.

    It is my least favorite warzone.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
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