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[SW:TOR]: PvP Thread. Ilum, you are terrible.

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Posts

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Marauders are fine with dealing with CC, and are better at it than other melee like operatives/scoundrels/shadows. Between force camo and a short CD leap(if you're annihilation) you can reclose gaps after knockbacks fairly well. Marauders are a terrific class in pvp, and they have a shitload more survivability than say a shadow dps.

    I really like melee in this game in general, but the only thing that keeps me from going insane on my guardian is the 4 seconds of CC immunity after I leap. When I play my infiltration shadow I have decent enough burst, but the survivability sucks so bad it's insane.

  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    I found operative and assassin dps both insanely easier to do, assassins actually have counters to cc other than "wait for leap to recharge", and stealth of course means they can't shut you down before you get that one leap in (and then the immediate knockback with snare/root talents). Plus both have actual ranged options, even if limited at times. I can't count the number of times people 'got away' from my operative only to tap cover and explosive probe, then throw a grenade, and watch them explode as they run. Or as an assassin where you use the cooldown ranged attack buff to hit them with lightning as they run, slowing them down enough to get a cooldown of force speed, if not finish them off outright.

    A marauder just doesn't get anything like that. It's leap, leap, or......leap. If that doesn't work, welp.

    Don't get me wrong, it's a fun class. But literally every time I kill someone I see two or three ways they could have killed me without me being able to deal with it.

    Edit: Also I want to find that person that once told me in an argument that marauders were a "stealth" class, and slap them.

    Astale on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I'll give you that operatives have a couple ranged attacks to use, but if they are caught out of stealth and kept snared/immobilized, they will never be able to close on somebody at all, and that's not going to go well. Assassin can hit somebody with 1 force lightning from range every 90 seconds, sure, but that's not killing anybody either, and if you're infiltration spec, your survivability is so laughable if you didn't catch the person off guard you're probably not winning anyway.

    You shouldn't leap as a marauder to initiate, you should wait until they've knocked you back, and as long as you do that and keep them snared, you'll be able to have good uptime on most classes. Between medium armor, guarded by the force, rebuke, and the self healing, Marauder is a crazy potent 1v1 class. You can force camo other classes defensive CDs and use a short reset of the fight. I'll give you that Marauder has a higher skill curve to play great than other classes, but they're deadly as hell when played well.

  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    Eh, I think I would be willing to admit the 'possible' upper end of dps for a marauder might end up as higher than those of assassin and operative.

    But if it does, it must be later. I'm at 17 with the marauder now, having only started recently, but at 17 on operative/assassin you can do so much more.

    Alistair wrote: »
    I use Dog as a cover for when I put dead animals in Morrigan's underthings
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Marauder doesn't even come close to being a complete class until level 38, because you don't have your best defensive cooldown until then, plus most of their talent trees are insanely top heavy, with the best stuff coming later. When I talk about class ability, i'm talking from a level 50 perspective really, because until then, it's impossible to have balance since some classes mature far earlier than others.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    In other news, on the latest PTS update, they removed the side speeders from the civil war WZ, which I think is phenomenal. That'll be a nice game changer, since it makes the sides much harder to reinforce and should allow for more fun games.

    They also lowered the amount of healing increase per point of expertise, thank god, because had they not, healers would've been stupid as shit in 1.2 with 20+% expertise.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Astale wrote: »
    Eh, I think I would be willing to admit the 'possible' upper end of dps for a marauder might end up as higher than those of assassin and operative.

    But if it does, it must be later. I'm at 17 with the marauder now, having only started recently, but at 17 on operative/assassin you can do so much more.

    I couldn't do shit at 17 on my sentinel like I can at 30.
    Night and day difference.
    You don't even have overload saber! You are a non person at that point.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Greg USN wrote: »
    I just rage logged having suffered through 3 straight matches with team members that had no idea what the hell they were doing. Oh hey let's not fight on doors or turrets. Let's not attack the healers. Let's not call for help. Yeah didn't want to be in a foul mood so I'm going to enjoy the end of fringe.

    My "daily" 1-pvp-win quest usually takes me about three days to complete, because most days I can only run one or two warzones.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    It's definitely streaky. I'm 50, so my warzone daily is 3 wins, and let me tell you, I love the days when I get 3 wins in a row and we're just steamrolling the poor imperials, because on the days when I get the herpaderps on my team, god it makes me go nuts. I don't mind losing, but when people are just doing the dumbest shit it just drives you crazy.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    I have some funny moments on losing teams on my sentinel.

    Like the time I was getting absolutely smashed in the last minute and a half of a huttball when we were 4 1 losing. I couldn't work out why everybody on their team jumped me the minute I appeared, ignoring anyone else.
    Then the end game scoreboard popped up and I had beaten everybody on my team and half of their teams dps for damage and kills. I was, more or less, the only person actually killing anyone. And thinking back, I was doing it while outnumbered and usually killing healers too. I must have built up a lot of hate on their side by the end of that game. I was the one who scored too.

    Games like those I don't mind losing, because I like to think I won something else to make up for it.

    Location: Sydney, Australia
    My Dark Souls 2 Diary Day 6 and 7 Updated
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • AlazullAlazull Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    It's definitely streaky. I'm 50, so my warzone daily is 3 wins, and let me tell you, I love the days when I get 3 wins in a row and we're just steamrolling the poor imperials, because on the days when I get the herpaderps on my team, god it makes me go nuts. I don't mind losing, but when people are just doing the dumbest shit it just drives you crazy.

    Yeah, I've grown to a point where the only thing that keeps me PvPing is knowing I can always hit 4 medals, and that win or lose it'll count towards my Ilum daily/weekly. Most of the time, I end up in retarded groups of random solos that have no idea what the hell they're doing or how to play the game. Dude, you're level 50 and you have Centurion rank and/or gear, which means you've done some PvP.

    Things you should know at that point:
    1.) You need to fight on Objectives. This means ON THE DOOR for Voidstar, ON THE TURRET CONTROLS for Civil War, AND ON THE FUCKING HUTTBALL CARRIER OR ON CENTER for Huttball. I'm so tired of losing games because someone decided to do something really stupid because they decided they wanted to.

    2.) Interrupt/kill healers. I should not have to mark them, hell, I should barely have to call them out. By now, you should know that if you see someone using an ability colored red, it's damage and if it's colored green, it's healing. This means you interrupt them if you can and focus fire them until they're dead. And YES! Healers will die! EVEN IF THERE'S MORE THAN ONE OF THEM! It just requires some team work. Sure, it's tough. It really is. But if you don't do it, your opponents never lose momentum. This means they will eventually win the fight over the objective, and therefore win the game.

    3.) If there is a plan, follow it. Don't just go off and do your own thing, because that's not good team play. At the end of the day, I've been on too many teams where we lose but all of us have high kill/death ratios. Nobody cares if you got 100 kills or did more than 100k damage if your side loses. I MVP the person who healed our team effectively, or the guy who held the door when everyone else was respawning, or the person who ninjas an objective and turns the game around for us. That's being useful.

    4.) FUCKING MVP VOTE PEOPLE. It gives a slight kick back to the person you vote for, and in every match there is someone who deserves it. Again, the person that did the most to help you or the team. It's simple, it takes no time at all, and it's just good manners.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Yeah, I typically only queue for pvp with 1-3 of my guildmates, because even 2 of us queueing together gives an advantage in some matches. Sure, we still get stomped sometimes, but even 2 good coordinated people can swing a close match in your favor.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I think the thing that most irritates me is when people are afraid to solo guard turrets on civil war, and they do it terribly. Sure, it's not the most fun job, but I can easily hold one on my DPS Guardian long enough for reinforcements. As soon as I see somebody coming I let my team know, and prepare for a stealther. I LOS the guys so they can't leap, I force them to chase me around, and when it's time to actually fight it's all CC up front. I push one away, I stasis the other, I hope he cc breakers my stasis so I can awe him, I pop my defensive cooldowns. It's not uncommon for me to live 20+ seconds against 2 guys to let my team reinforce. All too often I see people call incoming then just try to fight straight up and get annihilated 2v1.

  • SammichSammich Registered User
    edited April 2012
    For me it all depends on how the first couple of WZ's go. If we get outright destroyed with no co-ordination, ill stay off it for a while. If its close(lose or win) ill stick around to get my dailies done. Yesterday was utterly horrible for me in 50 and sub 50 PVP. Just gave up.. Couldnt take it.

    Oh and it seems that you cant buy champ bags with comms before you hit level 50, but you can buy battlemaster comms with just valor 60. Am i reading that correctly or is there a hidden level 50 requirement thats there as well(would make sense). Otherwise you can probably stock up with a few before you hit 50.

    Sammich on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    Alazull wrote: »
    2.) Interrupt/kill healers. I should not have to mark them, hell, I should barely have to call them out. By now, you should know that if you see someone using an ability colored red, it's damage and if it's colored green, it's healing. This means you interrupt them if you can and focus fire them until they're dead. And YES! Healers will die! EVEN IF THERE'S MORE THAN ONE OF THEM! It just requires some team work. Sure, it's tough. It really is. But if you don't do it, your opponents never lose momentum. This means they will eventually win the fight over the objective, and therefore win the game.

    I also want to emphasize, know which heal to interrupt. Commandos/Mercs have *one* self heal that is spammable, every other heal has a cooldown. (We can't use our "free" heal on ourselves, I assume because it can be cast while moving)

    Commando: Medical Probe
    Merc: Rapid Scan

    If we're spamming Advanced Medical Probe (Healing Scan) congrats! You've gotten us to burn our most powerful healing cooldown. We'll be f'd in about 15 seconds.

    Also, what Alazull mentioned, you need teamwork. The strength isn't the lone healer, it's the Healer + Healer + Tank spamming taunt and swapping Guard back and forth trio. You have to split us up, get someone out of LoS, CC'd, whatever.

    D3: Ish#1521 ~ Steam: Ishie ~ FFXIV: Kitty! & Baby Falafel ~ Brave Frontier: 509 675 5387
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Sammich wrote: »
    For me it all depends on how the first couple of WZ's go. If we get outright destroyed with no co-ordination, ill stay off it for a while. If its close(lose or win) ill stick around to get my dailies done. Yesterday was utterly horrible for me in 50 and sub 50 PVP. Just gave up.. Couldnt take it.

    Oh and it seems that you cant buy champ bags with comms before you hit level 50, but you can buy battlemaster comms with just valor 60. Am i reading that correctly or is there a hidden level 50 requirement thats there as well(would make sense). Otherwise you can probably stock up with a few before you hit 50.

    Your valor level is capped by your character level, so you could never be valor 60 pre 50. In 1.2 at first on test you could buy the BM pieces with warzone comms pre 50, but they fixed it to require level 50 to buy them too.

  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    I just switched to Focus spec on my Guardian. So much more fun and way more damage than Vigilance. I had been Vigilance for raids so my general strat had been going into WZs in tank stance, doing a simplified rotation and guarding allies. Focus is just balls to the wall in comparison.

    I just hit pvp rank 40 last night. I'm in all Rakata or Columni gear with almost no pvp gear. I was told that what I have is better than Centurian gear (I take a hit on every stat to gain expertise). Am I right in assuming that gear will start to flow more once I get rank 60? I assume I get reasonably more champion badges from battlemaster bags plus the chance to get battlemaster gear. Is hitting 60 something I can look forward to?

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Even if you're not valor 60 yet, you'll be full champ geared before long, just by opening bags from daily/weekly/buying them with comms. Champ gear will be stat downgrades from Rakata, which is the same boat i'm in, but 10% expertise is a much bigger deal than the stats you lose. Without pvp gear, you're going to get stomped by anybody in even full champ.

    I would have to respectfully disagree about focus v vigilance spec for pvp though. I can't stand playing in focus, and pvp in my vig spec. I don't play in soresu form, which would rape vigilance's output since being in Shien for the refunded focus is one of the main points of that spec though.

    Focus is great for the aoe bombs, and when I spec it, I always put up 450k+ damage in every warzone, but outside of sweep bombs I just hate the spec, and when I play vigilance, I can pressure healers and other soft targets much more effectively, knowing blade storm and dispatch are both going to guaranteed crit, plus I love the DoT from plasma brand. I routinely do ~300k damage in my Vig spec in a WZ, and I don't even use force sweep unless I have nothing else worthwhile off CD, so it's basically pure single target damage.

    I think they're just 2 different styles of DPS, and there's definitely something to be said for the aoe bombs of focus, especially on void star or ball carriers, but it's just not my thing.

  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I totally get where you're coming from. I just find myself doing more damage and being scarrier to players as Focus than I ever did as Vigilance. Even ungeared the few combos that I can pull off do way more burst damage to a single targets. Plus CCs is better.

    Saber Throw > Exhaust > back up a little, Force Leap > Sweep.
    If knocked back then Zealous Leap
    Filler attacks for a little bit > Stasis > Force Push > Force Leap > Sweep.

    I find myself to be much more sticky and doing much higher damage to a singled out target than I (personally) was able to do as Vigilance. Then of course there are the AoE bombs.

    Catastrophe_XXVI on
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  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    Is there still a chance to get items in the Champion bags still?

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  • CowSharkCowShark Registered User regular
    I got a Champ bag item for the first time a couple weeks ago. I'd opened about 30 bags at that point. I think I heard the chance is 5%, so... it's not a good chance.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I totally get where you're coming from. I just find myself doing more damage and being scarrier to players as Focus than I ever did as Vigilance. Even ungeared the few combos that I can pull off do way more burst damage to a single targets. Plus CCs is better.

    Saber Throw > Exhaust > back up a little, Force Leap > Sweep.
    If knocked back then Zealous Leap
    Filler attacks for a little bit > Stasis > Force Push > Force Leap > Sweep.

    I find myself to be much more sticky and doing much higher damage to a singled out target than I (personally) was able to do as Vigilance. Then of course there are the AoE bombs.

    Yeah, I think my main problem with focus is just that I lose unremitting, so I don't get that guaranteed 4 seconds of DPS time when I leap a sorc/merc or whoever, and outside the sweep bombs I feel like I have nothing good to hit. With my vig spec, I can crit 2500 with Plasma, plus the dot is ticking for ~250, then blade storm is guaranteed to crit for ~2500, then overhead slash can crit for ~3500, and once I get them to 20% dispatch crits for ~4500 on soft targets. I always feel focus starved between sweep bombs(which I seem to only get to hit for ~5k without an adrenal) even on soft targets, and since blade storm and dispatch don't auto crit, I don't get that on demand guarantee that I can kill somebody that's ~7k health, unless I have a sweep bomb ready.

    Honestly, the slight nerf to focus in 1.2 and the change to make dispatch work at 30% just further cements my love for it in 1.2, because now that auto crit dispatch comes even earlier, and the fact they're moving the saber throw adds sunders talent to vig is awesome too, because it means opening with plasma after a leap to get the dot on earlier.

    And yeah, the chance to get a champ token is like 5% now.

  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    You def have better gear than I do for pvp. I might like Vigilence better if I was seeing numbers that high but atm I don't. Focus has been a nice way for me to compete.

    Are all the patch notes out yet? I haven't had the time to look. Should I expect my new found love to be crappy after it hits?

    PSN ID: Catastrophe_xxvi
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  • ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    I am valor rank 57...have 4 or 5 pieces of champ gear and two companions outfitted with Centurion and I have NEVER had a champion piece come in a bag.

    RNG hates me.

    Chanus wrote: »

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    You def have better gear than I do for pvp. I might like Vigilence better if I was seeing numbers that high but atm I don't. Focus has been a nice way for me to compete.

    Are all the patch notes out yet? I haven't had the time to look. Should I expect my new found love to be crappy after it hits?

    Focus isn't getting hit too hard, but it is getting hit. You can find the PTS notes on the main website in the PTS forum, but the short notes for focus is 12 second CD on Sweep instead of 9, and swelling winds is only going to increase sweep damage by 20% instead of 30. This is just for Guardian/Jugg.

    Sentinel/Marauder actually got a sizeable buff to their focus/rage specs to get it more in line with jugg/guardian.

  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    Quick question:

    Everyone's aware that there's an AoE speed buff, Transcendence, right? Every time I queue with my Sentinel buddy I hear "LOLOL NICE SPEED HAX REPORTED" every other game. =/

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Everyone who isn't stupid enough to call speed hacks every time they see a sentinel/marauder use it, or a shadow/assassin force speed already knows that. Unfortunately, the dumbest people are also the ones willing to call hacks every time they see something they don't understand.

  • Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    oddly enough, i have only ever seen someone use the AOE Speed buff at the beginning of a Hutball match.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    That's because a large majority of the people playing sentinel/marauder have no idea how to take advantage of some of their toolset. You'd be surprised how something that seems so simple as "Hit the thing that gives you 30 stacks of centering-> hit your speed boost" is less apparent to the average person than you'd expect.

  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I think it's mostly that our server's Imp PvP population is 80% Inquisitors of both flavors and 20% Mercs, heh. I can't really think of any Marauder "regulars" off the top of my head.

    And Transcendence + the Watchman buff is so insanely good, our Sentinel uses it constantly: running the ball to the end zone, sprinting in after a door/bridge is capped in Voidstar, reinforcing nodes in Alderaan. I don't have a Sent, how long does it generally take to build centering?

    Ishtaar on
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  • Enosh20Enosh20 Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    oddly enough, i have only ever seen someone use the AOE Speed buff at the beginning of a Hutball match.
    well it's only party wide atm and depending on who is in your party it's not all that useful
    if there is an assassin, or jug or something else that is decent at soaking dmg and carrying the ball it's good to use it, if your party is full of fragile classes not much use in them being there first
    but yeah people don't use it even when they should

    centering, kinda depends, watchmen gives you 4 stack per ability, so 7,5 attacks, doesn't count auto attacks, only those that consume rage, the cleave ability is a good one for building it if you have some rage left over and nothing to hit since it only cost 1 rage with talents

    Enosh20 on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    It doesn't take long to build as watchman, and they have a fairly short CD ability that gives 30 stacks instantly.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    Focus has a talent that gives you 15 centering upon exiting transcendence.
    there is a spec spoken of known as "infinite transcendence" where you can more or less keep that buff going forever and ever. So I guess you can build centering while it is active unlike zen.

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  • JorilJoril Registered User regular
    So.
    Two weeks worth of Battlemaster Gear Bags from dailies and weeklies: 1 BM commendation.
    But sure, I guess if I had infinite BM bags, I'd get 25% BM commendations. Such bullshit, give us some rewards for our time!

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  • Chases Street DemonsChases Street Demons Registered User regular
    Sorry to be a newb here but I could use some quick guidance. I've got an alt BH who is within striking distance of 50. I've got 1k Merc comms, and somewhere around 500 WZ comms - getting the other 500 before 50 won't be a problem.

    What's happening with commendations in the 1.2 patch (which is supposedly dropping this week)? Should I push hard to 50 and buy the extra 5 champ bags (already got one in the bank) or will my comms be more valuable for other stuff after the patch? Any guidance appreciated - I haven't taken the PvP side too seriously in a month or so and now I'm feeling adrift.

    "Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    You may as well just save your warzone and merc comms. In 1.2, you will be able to trade merc back to WZ at 1:1, and merc is basically not used anymore for much in 1.2. You will be able to buy Battlemaster pieces with just warzone comms, and the cap for those is going up to 2000.

    Basically, once 1.2 hits, your options for pvp gear are a set called recruit that's just bought with credits, and has ~15% expertise on it but fuck all for stats. It's blue quality unmoddable gear. Then you have Battlemaster, which has no valor requirement any longer, and each piece just costs warzone comms. Then there is war hero, which is bought by trading in the battlemaster piece plus rated warzone comms, which are earned by doing ranked warzones. That set is a slight upgrade over battlemaster, like around ~2% more expertise.

    1.2 is not coming 4/10, Bioware already clarified that, but it could be 4/17. They said they'll announce ahead of time.

  • AlazullAlazull Registered User regular
    I was playing my Merc today, pre-50 pvp and I gotta say: I love playing with Marauders who know what they're doing.

    This Marauder on my team, we kept getting matched together in Civil War and Huttball. Enemies had no idea what to do. Focus on me? He tears you apart while throwing buffs out. Focus on him to try to stop him from making the group murder machines? I tear you apart.

    Also it was amazing how little attention I was payed until about halfway through warzones. Sure, it takes some learning and understanding of strategies in PvP, but Mercs/Commandos are like mobile turrets. For every 15 seconds I stand still, someone dies.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Yeah, I get frustrated playing my commando alt, because when I solo queue, I just get wrecked nonstop for the most part, so then I just take it out on mercs on my 50 guardian and just eat them for lunch and never let them stand there destroying people.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I ran into a bh in open pvp the other day after not playing my sent for several days and had to remember how to play him in the middle of the fight. I think maybe he was a tank or something. I lost in the end but I nearly had him even though I wasn't doing my proper rotation until about halfway through the fight.
    Ya really need a warm up with sentinel. When I'm not up for thinking really hard I just play something else.

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    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    So I hit 50 on my Scoundrel last night, my normal PvP buddies and I decided to do some premade alt-o-rific queues. So there's my Healy Scoundrel in her 12.5k health pool queued with a Vanguard, Funslinger and Scrapper Scoundrel. We have a grand total of 200ish Expertise between the four of us. RvR Huttball. The four pugs we get: Three more Scrapper Scoundrels and a DPS Sage, all of them also fresh 50's.

    Hilarity ensues.

    With nobody really having any Expertise on our team, anyone with the ball would basically die on contact. But, with four Shoot First/Back Blasts, anyone on their team with the ball also died on contact. We actually managed to win by making a stealth chain of Scoundrels from mid to their endzone, popping out just in time to grab the ball and pass it.

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