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[SKREEONK!] Godzilla and Other Giant Monsters Super Thread
Hexmage-PA
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
In 1954 a group of filmmakers composed of Tomoyuki Tanaka, Ishiro Honda, Eiji Tsuburaya, and Shigeru Kayama created a new monster movie whose impact would leave a colossal footprint in pop culture. The Japanese audience know the film and its titular monster as Gojira, but you may know the creature as:
When you think of Godzilla, do you see an enraged, radioactive menace?
Or a judo-chopping wrestler that makes Adam West's Batman look like Christian Bale's Batman?
Do you think Godzilla breathes fire, or that he's 400 feet tall? Do you think Godzilla is a skinny hermaphrodite who runs from the military and whose most terrifying feature is his fecundity (please say no to this one)?
I plan to eventually post overviews of the Godzilla franchise as a whole, individual movies, monsters, and whatever the hell else in this thread, but what I'm most interested in right now is how well acquainted you are with Godzilla and what you think of the franchise. Have you only ever seen Godzilla vs Megalon, or have you seen every movie right up to 2004's Godzilla: Final Wars? Do you have a favorite film in the franchise, or do you think they're all terrible B-movie schlock?
We can also speculate about Legendary Picture's upcoming attempt at an American Godzilla movie. I know the last one didn't turn out so well, but this teaser image for the new film gives me hope:
Of course, discussion regarding other giant monster films made by Godzilla's parent company, Toho, is allowed. You godless heathens can even talk about King Kong, Gamera, the Cloverfield Monster, and other non-Toho giant monsters if you really want to.
When you think of Godzilla, do you see an enraged, radioactive menace?
Or a judo-chopping wrestler that makes Adam West's Batman look like Christian Bale's Batman?
Do you think Godzilla breathes fire, or that he's 400 feet tall? Do you think Godzilla is a skinny hermaphrodite who runs from the military and whose most terrifying feature is his fecundity (please say no to this one)?
I plan to eventually post overviews of the Godzilla franchise as a whole, individual movies, monsters, and whatever the hell else in this thread, but what I'm most interested in right now is how well acquainted you are with Godzilla and what you think of the franchise. Have you only ever seen Godzilla vs Megalon, or have you seen every movie right up to 2004's Godzilla: Final Wars? Do you have a favorite film in the franchise, or do you think they're all terrible B-movie schlock?
We can also speculate about Legendary Picture's upcoming attempt at an American Godzilla movie. I know the last one didn't turn out so well, but this teaser image for the new film gives me hope:
Of course, discussion regarding other giant monster films made by Godzilla's parent company, Toho, is allowed. You godless heathens can even talk about King Kong, Gamera, the Cloverfield Monster, and other non-Toho giant monsters if you really want to.
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I've also seen most of the Millenium movies, and snagged the first "vs. Mechagodzilla" with King Caesar on iTunes as well as "vs. Destroyah".
Ha, fuck, this discussion just reminded me I have a Czech Godzilla movie poster as my avatar. Yeah, I like Godzilla. I'm not HUUUUUUGE on the lore though, I just watch them because monster movies are awesome.
Yeah, I rented that game so many times I should of just brought the game....
Not the movie, the monster.
The hell you say?
That monster is now known officially as Zilla; furthermore, it was defeated by the real Godzilla in the shortest fight in the entire Godzilla franchise.
At least in this movie Zilla actually fights instead of running away. Despite this, I don't dislike Zilla: it's not his fault someone tried to pass him off as the real King of the Monsters.
In addition, Toho is a-okay with the Godzilla: The Series offspring of Zilla, actually calling it Godzilla.
I might know everything there is to know about godzilla
I read this book over and over when I was a kid and used to watch every movie ever
I have seen every film godzilla has been in and loved them all to some degree or other
I would probably kill your grandmother for a mint edition of that book, mine fell apart because I read it all the time
Ah, youth
I'm sad it didn't.
A number of the Godzilla movies are on Crackle right now! I just watched Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla for the first time yesterday due to it!
Also, it truly is amazing how serious the original film, and 1984 (to a point) are in comparison to most of the rest of the (Americanized) series. I am hoping the Legendary does a proper American version, where he isn't some scared animal, and truly is a radical force of nature more akin to his origins.
I'll probably write down my thoughts on the individual Godzilla movies in a day or so.
Don't make me go all Uragaan on your ass.
Also, while the Showa Gamera run was goofy, the trilogy that came out in the 90s was pretty good.
I thought they were. The first sequel added a ton of monsters, including Jet Jaguar, and was pretty much more of the same great monster fun. The second sequel added some motion controls if you played it on the Wii and some new monsters created specifically for the game. I bought them both and didn't regret it.
The GBA Godzilla and the DS one that came out along with the first and third games, respectively, were alright too, in terms of some portable Godzilla goodness. The GBA one is more of a fighter, kind of like King of the Monsters, and the DS one is a on rails shooter where you control monsters instead of vehicles.
That's too bad, because Godzilla vs Space Godzilla is probably the worst, or second worst, of all the Heisei films. It's not a good Godzilla film.
I, on the other hand, just watched Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla on Crackle, and that is a fucking awesome Godzilla film. You should check it out.
And that's about all I remember about actually watching the Godzilla films. I need to correct this at some point.
Godzilla: Final Wars was a great movie, exactly what you'd expect for a "We're done, we're pulling all the stops out" Godzilla movie.
Yeah, starting with Godzilla 2000, there are a half dozen that really aren't bad.
http://www.amazon.com/Godzilla-Criterion-Collection-Blu-ray-Takashi/dp/B005VU9LKE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325604960&sr=8-1
Both the Japanese and American versions, completely restored with a load of extras.
I used to watch and love the old movies!
That's right, Netflix.
The Godzilla series goes something like this (and I'll elaborate on each series later):
Showa Series (1954-1975) - 15 films. Godzilla is 50 meters tall in this series.This is the series that went full on goofy by the end, with Godzilla suplexing giant beetles and flying backwards through the air using his atomic ray like a rocket (that thankfully happened only once), although the very last film (Terror of Mechagodzilla) made a too little, too late attempt at seriousness.
Heisei Series (1985-1995) - 7 films. Godzilla reaches his record height of 100 meters in this series. Ignores every previous movie but the original. Godzilla is not anthropomorphized and stays a pissed-off beast. Though the monster battles don't devolve into silly wrestling matches, they actually have the opposite problem of looking stiff and immobile, with energy beams blasts making up much of the action.
Millenium Series (1999-2004) - 6 films. This series is unique in that the films are not all connected; most presumably include the original Godzilla movie in their timelines, but after that include wildly different scenarios (one timeline even includes the American Godzilla movie: "The Americans say it was Godzilla, but our guys have doubts."). Toho wanted filmmakers to experiment with Godzilla for the first three films before choosing who they wanted in charge of the franchise (despite being an experimental phase, I'd contend that only the third of these films made any significant attempt to reinvent the franchise). This attempt at reviving Godzilla ultimately failed, but ended with Godzilla: Final Wars, the Japanese Godzilla film with the biggest budget and the most controversial content among Godzilla fans.
I personally like the Millenium series the best because it lacks the silliness found in the later Showa series while still retaining the action-packed monster battles that were lacking in the Heisei series.
The Return of Godzilla (1984):
While you could consider this a reboot of the franchise, Godzilla 1984 is actually more of a continuation of the original 1954 film, in the same way that Superman Returns continued the story of Superman 1 and 2, while forgetting 3 and 4. It's also one of the few films that centers on Godzilla, without having him fight any other kaiju. This means that, just like Batman Begins, we get to focus on the titular monster and aren't sidetracked or distracted by any flashy villains. The entire plot is about Godzilla's threat to Japan and the government's efforts to stop him at any cost, which makes it one of the more grounded and realistic stories in the series. The resulting tone is rather dark and gritty, rather then silly and campy. Taking place in 1984, the height of the Cold War, also means that American and Soviet tensions are high and actually factor into the narrative. There's a rather important subplot involving the Russians launching a nuke from an orbiting satellite which feels appropriate and makes sense in this setting.
Now, while you might think this is a pretty positive review, I'm actually not very fond of Godzilla 1984. A big part of the problem for me lies in Godzilla himself. Frankly, the suit stinks. Godzilla in this film looks rather terrible and reminds me of the ugly suits used in the Showa era, even though this was made in 1984 with more modern practical technology and materials. Godzilla's face is the worst aspect, with a lumpy mishapen snout that seems to have no real idea what it's supposed to be. The mouth has fangs like a vampire, which make no sense and look bad. I also hate the eyes, which are incredibly large and prominent. Large eyes are wrong for Godzilla, because they work against the sense of scale that you need for the monster. Large eyeballs make the rest of the creature look smaller and more diminutive by comparison, which is not what you should be doing. Also, the irises are small, which leaves a lot of white. This is problematic because the large amount of white just exposes the fact that it's an artificial painted ball in an animatronic head. The whiteness of the eyes also gives a more human-like appearance which robs the monster of its ferocity and bestial nature.
The positioning of the eyes is also incredibly jarring and awkward. Many have commented that Godzilla 1984 has dead, zombie eyes. This is because the eyes are positioned as looking up, as if they were right about to roll into the back of his head. This does give it a very dead look, which I intensely disliked. Godzilla is a man in a rubber suit, but he should look like a real, living breathing animal. The odd eyes just made it look dead, or an artificial automaton, which hardly seems desirable.
It always amused me, knowing that Japan had a constitution that really didn't allow any sort of a military after WWII, only self defense forces... and seeing them putting out all these advanced tanks with like, giant laser cannons mounted on em... even freaking super weapons like the Super X. Like, who else had laser canon tanks? Why keep fighting Godzilla, you could've conquered the rest of the world with this sorta armament! It was nuts.
Remember the Super X? This super ship thingy from Godzilla 1985? The Super X was like, this really small kinda bulb shaped turd that flew around, didn't it? I remember not liking it one bit. It just looked so boring. I think Godzilla destroyed the Super X by pushing a building on it. The Super X was a bad bad design.
Godzilla vs Biollante (1989):
I don't know how anyone can like this film, Godzilla vs. Biollante. It's been a long time since I've watched it, but from what I recall, it was mostly about some secret agents... and then some scientist guy who had a dead daughter... and he grew a plant infused with Godzilla's DNA... and the plant became Biollante with the soul of his dead daughter? Is that right? Now, the dead daughter thing was insane. That was just retarded. But the worst problem is that... really, I don't think Godzilla and Biollante fight until the end of the film. And then, it's like a three minute fight. Like, WTF? That's it, that's all we get? A three minute perfunctory battle where Biollante cuts Godzilla's hand? It was really, really disappointing. A Godzilla film needs more then just a three minute battle at the end to be called a Godzilla film.
And I actually really liked Biollante's design too. When I saw the commercials and trailers for the film, in this dinky little model store I used to go to as a kid, I thought Biollante looked fantastic. He's one of the most imaginative monster designs you'll find, cause he's this plant monster hybrid. Long sorta gator-like mouth, with lots of rows of teeth, just like Godzilla himself. Also had a few tusks along the side. And those tentacles that could bite all over, that was pretty nasty. It just sorta floated around on the water in its humongous bulk. I thought that was very imposing. It's one of the few designs in a Godzilla film that really did not give away that it was a rubber suit with a man inside.
Also, just a personal preference here... I think the best part of this film was the fact that they made the best looking Godzilla suit ever. The Heisei series technically started with Godzilla 1984, but with the sequel Godzilla vs. Biollante onwards, they went with an entirely new suit that had smaller eyes and a feline upper lip and nose. This is really important. Cause... you wouldn't think that a giant sea lizard would look right with the face of a feline, but in actuality it fit perfectly. The smaller eyes just enhanced the rest of his size, while the irises were huge and left very little white showing, which made him look incredibly fearsome and animalistic. The multiple rows of teeth in the mouth of this new design eluded to other marine lifeforms like sharks. They kept the slightly elongated neck and bulked up the lower torso and legs, which added to his menace and stature. If you look at Godzilla, his body structure is kinda like a pyramid. The chest was made a bit more muscular too, I think. Also, his tail was as long as ever. Godzilla's always had a tail that's slightly a bit longer then you might expect, which works as a way of allowing the filmmakers to have him swing it behind him in fanciful directions, as well as effectively use like a giant whip.
Godzilla vs King Ghidorah (1991):
Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah is my favorite Godzilla film. Just an awe-inspiring series of monster battles in this movie. I dunno about any of the time travel theory or if it made any particular sense, but the film was just so impressively creative when I watched it as a child. I mean, Mecha King Ghidorah? Where did they come up with that stuff? And the giant claw that shoots out from the torso? Genius! It even has a scene of a giant nuclear submarine sailing along the sea floor and suddenly getting raped by Big G. That's a Godzilla trope that just never gets old. It's like Bond saying "Bond, James Bond." You want that sort of stuff in your Godzilla film.
One of the most important aspects of the Heisei series was that it was a return to serious Godzilla movies. That's not to say that there aren't silly elements in this film, because it certainly has them, but for the most part it tries to avoid the mistakes made in the Showa movies from the 60s and 70s (I believe one of those stupid films even had Godzilla acting as the guardian of a little Japanese kid getting bullied at school or some shit). One of those mistakes is the "Godzilla as hero/protector of the earth" trope. Here, Godzilla is rightfully considered a pure force of nature, unyielding and devastating to everything and everyone around him. He's not here to save Japan from King Ghidorah, he just killed him because he got in the way. After their first battle, Godzilla merrily continues his path of destruction towards Tokyo. Mr Shindo, the rich businessman and war veteran, believes that Godzilla is his friend and saved his life in World War 2. Yet what happens? Godzilla marches right up to his skyscraper and kills him with an atomic blast from point blank range. This is not a hero or friend to humanity. This is how Godzilla should always be portrayed; an unthinking, unfeeling, senseless monster of destruction.
Now, I mentioned that this film does have some silly elements to it. Most of these involve the silly caricatures of the American time travelers, cackling wildly as they plot the destruction of Japan. The acting here is not exactly subtle. But by far the most egregious and ridiculous scene involves M-11, the super bionic android brought back by the time travelers. Obviously a rip off of the Terminator films, M-11 is ordered by the evil Americans to chase our protagonists, who are driving away in a Jeep. The ensuing chase scene, with M-11 bionically running in hilarious fashion to keep up with the Jeep, has to be one of the most embarrassing and laugh-inducing things I've ever seen. So if you only watch Godzilla films for the sheer camp value, don't fret as you'll still have plenty to enjoy here.
There's also a later scene when the M-11 gets reprogrammed and joins the side of the good guys. How do we know this? Well, because he immediately reboots, sits up, and responds to our protagonist with the line, "Yes... my boss." Now, they must've had a terrible, terrible Japanese translator when they did this dub, because "my boss" sounds awful and almost nonsensical. A more appropriate response would've been "Yes... master" or "Yes... commander." My boss? Wow, that translator should've been fired for incompetence.
But despite these flaws, I still find the film marvelously entertaining and incredibly inventive. The film also continues the use of the suit built for Biollante, which I consider to be the best looking Godzilla suit ever made. This distinctive and powerful Godzilla design would endure as the iconic look of Godzilla until the very end of the Heisei series in "Godzilla vs. Destoroyah."
And uh... just look at that poster. Holy shit. That is an amazing poster.
My copy isn't in mint condition, but there's not much wrong with it other than some bent corners.
This book is pretty great, too. Its author, Professor William Tsutsui, examines the history of the Godzilla series and its cultural impact.
Total agreement here.
Although, what did you think of GMK's depiction of an actively malevolent Godzilla? It seemed like he was aware of individual people and actually went out of his way to fuck with them before smashing them.
I used to like the Heisei design a lot, but now I can't help but see that incarnation of Godzilla as having ludicrously huge thighs. Sure, you could argue that they help him stand up, but I prefer the G2K design's relatively equal distribution of bulk (as well as nearly everything else about that design).
GMK had Godzillla literally as a demon didn't it? Personally I loved that version.
Eiji Tsuburaya: Master of Monsters: Defending the Earth with Ultraman and Godzilla by August Ragone is a knowledgeable and in-depth look at the life of the creator of most of the suits in the early series. Covers some of his other work, but it is mainly about his work in giant monster movies. Great pictures too.
Monsters Are Attacking Tokyo!: The Incredible World of Japanese Fantasy Films by Stuart Galbraith IV, Yukari Fujii and Atsushi Sakahara is enjoyable too. I remember it having a ton of interviews with actors from the films and was a nice change of pace from the drier, more critical books on the series.
Any time the author of that article refers to a feature of Godzilla's body as "magical" I mentally interpret that to mean "unknown to modern science". I am completely okay with the notion of daikaiju (that means "giant mysterious beast" for the uninitiated) possessing bizarre anatomical features that couldn't have conceivably evolved naturally to thinly justify their existence and abilities (Godzilla's entire body could be laced with naturally-occurring carbon nanotubes for all I care). I'm pretty sure such features have been officially referenced; unless I'm mistaken, I remember reading somewhere that a Japanese art book justified Rodan's flight by stating that the creature somehow manipulates the Earth's magnetic field in relation to itself (come to think of it, wasn't that also the explanation for how Megaguirus could fly?).
Besides, just because something is impossible in our reality doesn't mean it couldn't be possible in some similar universe. This is even true with the Godzilla franchise: most timelines have the Oxygen Destroyer completely dissolving Godzilla, whereas the Godzilla X Mechagodzilla and Tokyo SOS timeline has the skeleton remaining intact.
Something like that. The way I understand it, the spirits of the Japanese who died in World War II and were forgotten possessed the original Godzilla's remains and caused them to regenerate.
I often hear this complaint about it, but honestly I don't mind at all. I mean, think about it... Godzilla is an absurdly gigantic creature. It's 100 meters tall. It weighs as much as an aircraft carrier. It's stupendously, mindbogglingly huge. And I'm supposed to find the thighs somehow ludicrous because of their size? Doesn't bother me at all. Honestly, for something that big, Godzilla probably needs ludicrously large legs.
GMK? Uh, to be honest... I only watched that movie once, and it was in the background while I was looking at stuff online. Couldn't really tell you about the depiction there, cause I don't really remember much from it. However, I did dislike the suit they used. Godzilla without any pupils just looked bizarre to me. *shrug*
EDIT: Actually, I'd say that a relatively equal distribution of bulk, as you put it, is precisely what a Godzilla suit should avoid, because that equal distribution of bulk tends to make Godzilla look more like what it actually is, which is a man inside a rubber suit. You don't want to believe that it's a man inside a hot stuffy suit when you're watching a Godzilla movie, you want to be able to suspend your disbelief. Having that more equal distribution makes it look more like a man to me. With the more exaggerated and extreme proportions of the Heisei suit, with the small head, small arms, and ludicrously huge legs, the silhouette becomes much more unnatural and decidedly less humanoid, which I think is a good thing.
I can see your point; I just think that Godzilla's proportions look somewhat silly when looking at him straight-on.
BTW, thanks for posting your film impressions! I'm going to do some of my own and post them as soon as I can.
http://godzilla.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Godzilla_Suits
http://www.historyvortex.org/GodzillaEvolution.html
http://gojirastomp.tripod.com/gsuit/indexm.html
You know what, I love the Heisei Era. Thats easier to say. Still waiting for 1984 (Return of Godzilla) to hit bluray (DVD if I must).
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I wanted to come back to this:
Honestly I never had a problem with the Super X design, it was designed as form over function (it needed to be able to survive multiple direct breath attacks) and actually defeated Godzilla in their first encounter. The reason it ultimately failed can be brought down to 2 factors:
1. That nuke causing a storm that revitalized Godzilla.
2. Tactical failures
a. Keeping on site with damaged shielding instead of immediately retreating to get refitted after Godzilla stopped moving.
b. After said damaged shielding failed, trying to LOS a monster that has a history of knocking down buildings by...hiding behind a building.
(unless I'm badly remembering how it went).
Neither of these were really a failure of design, it was more a failure to adapt to an unprecedented situation.
The Super X-2...now that was bad. I don't think they actually got a winner until the X-3.
But form over function doesn't really make any sense in a universe where you create Mecha Godzilla. What was the function of making a giant robot that looked just like Godzilla?
And no, I don't believe it was trying to hide behind a building. I think the rotors got damaged, so they had to set it down. It just so happened that they set it down right next to a huge building.
I need to right that wrong.
Also, I came into this thread mainly to see how limited it is in reference to giant monsters. I saw the first Ultraman series a couple years ago, and it totally revitalized my interest in this stuff.