Battlefield 3: Come join us, the water is warm but the natives have guns

mojojoeo

Nalouto wrote:

What are these foregrip nerfs you speak of, patch notes?

Not a patch yet. posed changes by the guy that makes them.

Spoiler:

'm working on a retweak of the accessories in the game currently, as I feel the player is limited in choice due to a few accessories being the clear winners in almost all categories. While this unfortunately means nerfing those that are over used, the goal here is to focus on improving the under performing and under used attachments. Additionally it is the intention for an unmodified weapon to offer the best balance of Recoil, Accuracy, and Stealth. Right now this is preliminary, I've already asked for feedback on different attachments, and there's several good threads here and on Battlelog that discuss the weapons. Again, I'm not promising this will go live, and I'm not promising there will be an update, I'm looking for feedback and a discussion.

Thanks, Alan "Demize99" Kertz

Foregrip

The Foregrip is for players who who are in close combat and highly mobile fighting situations. It reduces the horizontal recoil forces that make maintaining a consistant aim on target difficult, however it makes aimed shots more difficult.

+34% reduction in horizontal recoil (adjust based on gun)
-20% penalty to base accuracy when aimed

Rationale: The Foregrip is quite powerful on weapons with high amounts of horizontal recoil, and is generally the goto attachment for everyone using Assault Rifles and Carbines. Currently it has no downside, which makes it a pure bonus upgrade and is a no brainer. Adjusting the foregrip on a per gun basis will prevent the foregrip from over powering some guns, and also means it doesn't need to be globally nerfed into oblivion. For example, 50% of the FAMAS's recoil is 0.3deg, while 50% of the G3A3's recoil is only 0.1deg. A global 0.1deg might work better, generally it will need to be on a per gun basis. The 20% penalty to aimed fire is about equal to a single shot fired on a Carbine.

Bipod

The Bipod is for Players who wish to setup a position and hold it against the enemy, or make long range shots effectively. When deployed recoil and dispersion are substantially reduced and scope sway is eliminated (except under suppression).

+Reduction in horizontal and vertical recoil (% depends on gun type)
+Reduction in dispersion (% depends on gun type/ammo type)
-Has to be setup to get the benefit

Rationale: The Bipod is underused, has a large penalty of needing to be stationary, yet today doesn't offer enough benefits on Carbines and Assault Rifles to be worth using. A buff of the bipod for these, and perhaps even LMG weapons is likely necessary.

Suppressor

The Suppressor is for players who are mostly focused on Stealth. It uses low velocity rounds, which means better stealth at the cost of reduced range. The Suppressor adds bulk to a weapon due to its size, making firing from the hip more difficult, though a high quality Suppressor provides a small aimed accuracy bonus and reduces the muzzle rise when firing.

+Does not appear on minimap when firing.
+Reduces sound and visual muzzle signature
-Reduced range for both min and max, damage stays the same.
-50% penalty to base accuracy from the hip
+25% bonus to base accuracy when aimed
+10% reduced vertical recoil

Rationale: Today the Suppressor's main penalty is the slower bullet speed, the current 34% penalty to hip fire is almost ignore-able at any range you would hip fire, and with the upcoming buff to aim speed (time to accurate when aiming) the downside needs to be larger. Additionally, the damage over range is only actually applied for LMGs and ARs, removing it and replacing it with a reduced to range makes this more consistent for all weapon types and focuses it more on close range (For reference, today an AR kills with 5 rounds at 40m and drops off to 7 shots, with a suppressor this would be 25m, but beyond 25m the damage would be a flat 6 shots.) Today the Suppressor also gives a 50% bonus to aimed accuracy, which is the same as the heavy barrel, but without the additional recoil. In fact the suppressor reduces vertical recoil by 10%, an amount which is essentially negligible, but is just one more reason to use the suppressor instead of other accessories. Reducing this bonus makes sense, and allows the suppressor to offset the foregrip penalty, while not being as good as the heavy barrel. This is of course over all a nerf but hopefully a minor one to what is essentially not an overpowered, just over used/general purpose, accessory.

Heavy Barrel

The Heavy Barrel is for players who are focused on Accurate Aimed fire. It uses high velocity rounds, which means the bullet drop is reduced and the max range of the weapon is increased at the cost of an increase in auto fire dispersion. The Heavy Barrel adds bulk to a weapon due to its weight, making firing from the hip more difficult, though it gives a substantial increase in aimed accuracy bonus.

+Increased maximum range, damage stays the same.
-25% increased dispersion per shot
+50% bonus to base accuracy when aimed
-25% penalty to base accuracy from the hip

Rationale: The Heavy Barrel gets used decently often today, though I think mostly because it's available quite a bit earlier than the Suppressor for Assault Rifles and Carbines. Frankly, the penalty today to recoil, as well as a penalty to deviation, makes the aimed accuracy increase useless, especially since the Suppressor has the accuracy bonus as well. So, let's pull the recoil penalty off this baby entirely, keep the auto fire accuracy penalty to keep it focused on small bursts of accurate aimed fire, and finally, push the maximum range of the rounds out a bit. This will give the Heavy Barrel better performance in medium range by extending the 5 shots to kill window of a 556 or 545 AR from 40 to 65m. Past 65m, the damage would be the same. This is a rather large buff.

Flash Suppressor

The Flash Suppressor is for players who want some additional Stealth, without the range and accuracy penalties of a Suppressor. It works as a recoil compensator, reducing recoil, though it adds a slight bit of bulk making firing from the hip more difficult.

+Reduces visual muzzle signature
+20% reduced vertical recoil
-20% penalty to base accuracy from the hip

Rationale: The Flash Suppressor is underwhelming generally. While it hides the muzzle flash it doesn't hide you on the minimap. I considered allowing it to hide on the minimap, but then it begins to just be a Suppressor without the aim bonus and range penalties. I want it to be something different. By allowing the Flash Suppressor to work as a recoil Compensator, the FS becomes a middle ground between the Suppressor and Heavy Barrel. If you're otherwise happy with the range, damage, and accuracy of your weapon, then the FS should be a nice buff to manageable recoil, without a whole lot of penalty. This is also a large buff.

Target Pointer

The Target Pointer is for players who want to run and gun from the hip. The laser is visible, making the user more visibile to other combatants and thus less Stealthy.

-Visible Laser
+Laser can dazzle opponents
+33% increase in base accuracy from the hip

Rationale: The Target Pointer works well for its role, and generally feels like it doesn't need to be changed.

So, what do you think?

BigDes

Hmm, I dunno if I like that foregrip nerf so much

Surely it shouldn't make you less accurate than no grip? Or am I misunderstanding?

I would rather something like it take you longer to reload or longer to lds

mojojoeo

BigDes wrote:

Hmm, I dunno if I like that foregrip nerf so much

Surely it shouldn't make you less accurate than no grip? Or am I misunderstanding?

I would rather something like it take you longer to reload or longer to lds

Your accuracy is WORSE aiming. better hip-firing. Which makes it worse than the laser minus the fact the laser gives away your position.

The only thing that bothers me is that they seem to not want straight upgrades from the parts- thats shitty. you have to work to unlock them.

DietarySupplement

Olivaw wrote:

BigDes wrote:

Olivaw wrote:

I really hate the unlock that requires me to win five squad deathmatches

Who the fuck thought that was a good idea

Dunno

I've just resigned myself to the fact that I will never get that gun or the sniper rifles

Oh I'll get it

I just have to figure out some way to cheese it somehow

There has to be a way outside of actually playing squad deathmatch because no one in their right mind wants to do that

Friend me on Battlelog and I can join up and help ya.

0Replace4Displace

mojojoeo wrote:

BigDes wrote:

Hmm, I dunno if I like that foregrip nerf so much

Surely it shouldn't make you less accurate than no grip? Or am I misunderstanding?

I would rather something like it take you longer to reload or longer to lds

Your accuracy is WORSE aiming. better hip-firing. Which makes it worse than the laser minus the fact the laser gives away your position.

The only thing that bothers me is that they seem to not want straight upgrades from the parts- thats shitty. you have to work to unlock them.

They said they wanted the naked gun to be neutral and have attachments give benefits as well as negative effects or prerequisites.

"Work" is a dumb term to apply. It does not take long to unlock all the non-optic attachments.

milski

Straight upgrades are kinda stupid, considering the game is supposed to be theoretically balanced. And it's not hard to unlock them, since you do so by actually playing the game; if shooting people in BF3 is work, not fun, you probably shouldn't be playing it.

Besides, Tac Light and laser pointer are both straight upgrades, since you can turn them off at will. Just use them for blinding in CQC shootouts.

mojojoeo

0Replace4Displace wrote:

mojojoeo wrote:

BigDes wrote:

Hmm, I dunno if I like that foregrip nerf so much

Surely it shouldn't make you less accurate than no grip? Or am I misunderstanding?

I would rather something like it take you longer to reload or longer to lds

Your accuracy is WORSE aiming. better hip-firing. Which makes it worse than the laser minus the fact the laser gives away your position.

The only thing that bothers me is that they seem to not want straight upgrades from the parts- thats shitty. you have to work to unlock them.

They said they wanted the naked gun to be neutral and have attachments give benefits as well as negative effects or prerequisites.

"Work" is a dumb term to apply. It does not take long to unlock all the non-optic attachments.

It was a joke.

We are not all idiot savants on the battlefield, shi. metro 64 hardcore is hard work.
[sp0iler] Hold down fire, hold down fire, hold down fire. [sp0iler]

un-sarcastically, I dont see the point of it as all it means is the guns that are good at range will get the range bits and the short ones get the short bits. The guns themselves provide most of the flavor.

BigDes

So the pp-19 is not for me

Torgairon

I was thrilled with the concept of the pp-19 and its 50 bullet clip until I realized it was basically a less effective p90. then again, the golden gun is a less effective gun than the p90.

edit: I know we've had someone extolling the virtues of the KH2002 before, but that gun is what I expected the an-94 to be - so much low-recoil bursty pain. the rex is really fun too, so now I have to grind the first co-op mission for a couple hours and get all the other co-op guns.

0Replace4Displace

It is an AK P90. I don't see how you can't like it.

Torgairon

the p90 suffers no imitations

jefe414

Torgairon wrote:

the p90 suffers no imitations

Good enough for Jack O'Neil, good enough for me.

milski

I really, really fucking hate how suicides always count as such even if you hurt the guy beforehand. If I put a burst in a guy's chest, he shouldn't get to deny my kill by rocketing his feet.

AlwaysNewDepths

BigDes wrote:

So the pp-19 is not for me

Yeah it takes a ton of bullets to kill someone. The only way it shines is hip firing with the laser, the aiming recticle is incredibly small then.

Dac

First time playing in like six weeks, obviously my sniping skills are rusty and I was getting killed a lot.

Then I switched to MAVing and got 30 Surveillance Efficiency ribbons in a high-ticket Caspian game. It's awesome that people seem to be actually paying attention and exploiting the advantage I'm giving them. Back around release, teammates would look at the guy you spotted around the corner... Then would turn around and sprint away, allowing themselves to be shot in the back.

Senshi

why you guys don't have this in the OP is a mystery

emp123

CarbonFire wrote:

That_Guy wrote:

In BF3, it has always taken 3 c4 bricks to drop a tank. 4 or more if the tank has ablative armor. Each armor zone will negate a single rocket or c4 brick. Theoretically you could drop all 6 c4 bricks and only disable the tank.

I've had that happen before that with a jihad jeep. 6 bricks on the grill/hood, right into the back of the tank....disabled :?

Awkward

That_Guy

Senshi wrote:

why you guys don't have this in the OP is a mystery

Because it hurts my ears to listen to, god damn.

wakkawa

Ramping a jihad jeep into the secondary story of a building to kill a sniper in it is awesome.

Much more awesome than killing a tank.

Satsumomo

Isn't that tweak list from Reddit something some dude came up with and not an official list?

Also, old thread doesn't have a link to this one.

John Zoidberg

wakkawa wrote:

Ramping a jihad jeep into the secondary story of a building to kill a sniper in it is awesome.

Much more awesome than killing a tank.

Were you out of bullets?

Spoiler:

Mulletude

Lt Muffin360 wrote:

So does anyone else find that Seine Crossing is a fantastic shotgun map?

Also, I went from the 870 once I finished unlocking all the attachments to the MK3A1, why does it take 6 years to load the MK3A1 when it takes like 5 seconds to load 7 rounds INDIVIDUALLY into the 870?

You are a wonderful murder machine of an addition to our little group. I may be playing whilst drinking later on for mega fun times.

Ninja Snarl P

Learned a couple of important things today. First, frag shotgun shells can totally suicide you, even if they were first applied to an enemy face. That was a fun discovery.

Much, much less fun is how stupid the unlock system is when applied to air vehicles. What's that? You don't have flares yet? Enjoy dying 15 times to missiles so you can get the one or two kills to get the dumb flares. Such a dumb thing to have to die over.

That_Guy

Ninja Snarl P wrote:

Learned a couple of important things today. First, frag shotgun shells can totally suicide you, even if they were first applied to an enemy face. That was a fun discovery.

Much, much less fun is how stupid the unlock system is when applied to air vehicles. What's that? You don't have flares yet? Enjoy dying 15 times to missiles so you can get the one or two kills to get the dumb flares. Such a dumb thing to have to die over.

When we get going tonight, you can gun. That is the best way to get the first unlocks for the choppers. As for the jets, that is just going to involve a lot of pain. Try whoring the Russian jet on Wake or Oman. The US jet should be an easy target for you. Alternatively, liberal application of lawn darting tanks also works.

Mulletude

Maybe I got lucky, but my first time in a jet I shot down a plane and got my flares.

That_Guy

And speaking of Lawndarting tanks, join me in mumble and we can find a server to play on.

Mr.Sunshine

I played one game of Rush and strafed tanks. Kharg rush in the Su-25, they're pretty much sitting ducks in their LAV's during the first set of Mcoms.

Ninja Snarl P

I'll actually have to see if I'll be able to be on tonight. My brother is heading back to college so we've got family stuff going on.

Looking forward to playing with PA folks again; been playing pub stuff just to grind out some equipment. Needed at least the basics like defibs and an AA launcher.

Gennenalyse Rueben

I ended up buying this after a friend of mine started playing it. Looks like I can't play on the PA servers since I can't afford to get that map pack thing right now, though. That's kind of disappointing. Not that you should particularly want me, I'm not any good at the game.

Technicus Rex

That_Guy wrote:

Ninja Snarl P wrote:

Learned a couple of important things today. First, frag shotgun shells can totally suicide you, even if they were first applied to an enemy face. That was a fun discovery.

Much, much less fun is how stupid the unlock system is when applied to air vehicles. What's that? You don't have flares yet? Enjoy dying 15 times to missiles so you can get the one or two kills to get the dumb flares. Such a dumb thing to have to die over.

When we get going tonight, you can gun. That is the best way to get the first unlocks for the choppers. As for the jets, that is just going to involve a lot of pain. Try whoring the Russian jet on Wake or Oman. The US jet should be an easy target for you. Alternatively, liberal application of lawn darting tanks also works.

I think mostly flag attack bonus's unlocked jet flare for me. Get a buddy to place an attack order and just buzz around it as much as you can. (edit: works better if you set the attack order yourself before getting in the jet) Also the jets you get in rush have a much more powerful cannon you can use to take out tanks and helo's.

Warcry

Ugh, another nine hour workday. Got a day off tomorrow though, I shall be BF3ing it up.

Mulletude

Gennenalyse Rueben wrote:

I ended up buying this after a friend of mine started playing it. Looks like I can't play on the PA servers since I can't afford to get that map pack thing right now, though. That's kind of disappointing. Not that you should particularly want me, I'm not any good at the game.

Playing with PA will make you a man.

HarshLanguage

Well, being bad at the game never stopped me from playing!

0Replace4Displace

Fun games tonight. Being killed by the server's admin because I killed him a few times was super funtimes.

emp123

Maybe if you didn't hack...

TheOtherHorseman

my first problems with BF3

whenever I log into servers, the only thing I can do is walk around because I can't use weapons, with nothing being equipped on my screen
and one server pre-emptively punkbuster-kicked me as I tried to join?

:\

AF-IX

Man, I like Conquest Assault (CA) mode to be sprinkled in around regular Conquest as much as the next fella...but tonight was silly.

Got a few great matches in before the server fed us nonstop CA (w/no vehicles in any match).

Shit got old fast.

Still, good games with the ol' regulars & Angry Puppy tonight.

MrDelish

That_Guy wrote:

Senshi wrote:

why you guys don't have this in the OP is a mystery

Because it hurts my ears to listen to, god damn.

you just don't know art

Hacksaw

I take back what I said about sniping.

The second I got the M40, everything became monumentally easier.

JebusUD

Lt Muffin360 wrote:

Karrde1842 wrote:

At least on the Xbox, it takes 2 to disable a tank, but it can still shoot for a bit before it goes boom. So I just take the extra second or two to apply that third c4 to make sure I get the kill. And one of my buddies told me you can still set off c4 you placed before you died. Can anyone confirm?

Edit: Beated.

Yeah, if you planted C4 and died, when you respawn you can pull out the clicker and set it off. I do believe that it will disappear after like 5-10 seconds after you respawn however.

I have no proof of the last one, just something that I think I noticed. I did the die, respawn, explode several times last night however, I know that works.

The clacker wont set them off. But if they are stuck to the tank and shot with a rocket or grenade thent hey will blow up.