Mechanical Keyboard

Stormwatcher

Barrakketh wrote:

minor incident wrote: »

For those that can't, I can only speak for myself. I game in a dark room most of the time. I can touch type just fine and am not a "hunt and peck" typist. However, when playing a game like an MMO or RTS that routinely requires the use of keys outside of my normal left hand position, it's exceptionally handy to be able to glance down quickly and spot the key I need.

That's where re-binding keys or macros are handy. For instance, back when I played WoW basically every key near "home" (the WASD) cluster would use a different spell/ability if you were holding down one of ALT/CTRL/SHIFT.

Personally, in an MMO or FPS game I do not like using any keys that requires me to stop moving.

Many games also require you to switch hand positions regularly, or even swap off the keyboard over to a gamepad temporarily. In these situations, being able to see the keys helps get your han back into position more quickly and easily.

First off...what games actually do that? I'm curious, because that sounds fucking terrible...the only thing that makes sense is something like an MMO on a console, so FF XI is the only thing that comes to mind.

TL;DR: some people find backlighting useful, as should be evident by the fact that it's a popular feature on higher-end keyboards.

Most of what I consider "higher-end keyboards" don't have backlit keyboards. Something from Das Keyboard, Leopold, Filco, Topre, or the company that makes the Happy Hacking keyboard will usually have no backlit keys (I would say "always", but perhaps they exist somewhere in their product lineup and I've never seen them...they might be available with them overseas).

It mainly seems to be a feature on so-called gaming keyboards (at least the ones advertised as such), mechanical or otherwise.

I swap from KB to Pad and back a billion times when playing ANY sandbox game with vehicles. GTA, SR, RF...

Cantido

minor incident wrote: »

I think he means he regrets NOT dropping the money on the Ultimate. I have an Ultimate and it's really great. I can't stand non-backlit keyboards.

Bah, I meant that. I got the Blackwidow Stealth, I should have grabbd the Ult. Backlighting is good.

DoctorArch

So when I go to Fry's tomorrow it's going to be between the Ultimate Blackwidow Stealth (Blues), the Corsair K90 (Reds), or the Das Keyboard Professional Silent (Browns). Last time I was there I didn't see the Das Keyboard, but I will keep an eye out for it. Otherwise I'm going to have an unfortunate employee hook up the Blackwidow and the K90 to a computer to try them out.

If the Blackwidow is a better typer than the K90 (which it should be) I'll be picking up the Blackwidow tomorrow. If it's too noisy (which may be the case), it's back home to order a Das Keyboard.

I'll also be picking up the Razer Vespula because it's pretty, big and has a nice rest, and it goes with my hardworking Logitech MX518 (what a great mouse this has been).

minor incident

Personally, I think the Blackwidow may be a better typist's keyboard, but it's loud like a motherfucker. Good plan to test them out first. I eventually replaced my Blackwidow with a K90 due to the noise issue, but both are great keyboards.

Edit: seriously, the first night I had it, I was using it while my wife was in the kitchen. Within minutes, she yelled (from two rooms away) "what the hell is that noise?!"

DoctorArch

@minor_incident: "loud like a motherfucker" is a very big concern of mine, hence the Das Keyboard if it's too noisy (which I fully suspect may be the case). But why oh why must the Das be more expensive <whine>?

Day of the Bear

The sound of blues clacking away is the sound of work getting done!

minor incident

Day of the Bear wrote: »

The sound of blues clacking away is the sound of work getting done!

This is true. And if it didn't drive the wife crazy at night, I'd still be CLICKER-CLACKing away. Sadly, I have to settle for the THUNK-THUNK of the reds.

Day of the Bear

Also an oft overlooked point about backlit keyboards is that by necessity the lettering cannot be worn away through use.

Yes you can achieve this through other types of caps but it's certainly a side bonus of the backlit boards

DoctorArch

Hmmm...anyone have an opinion if I am missing too much by going with the Rosewill Mechanical Keyboard RK-9000BR (Browns) for 30 dollars less than the Das Keyboard Silent (Browns)?

Probably a good question for @GnomeTank.

cardboard delusions

Das is expensive, but from what I can tell Rosewill is a very solid board. I frequent geekhack.org and I haven't seen any complaints, it's a good board for a good price.

Aioua

DoctorArch wrote: »

So when I go to Fry's tomorrow it's going to be between the Ultimate Blackwidow Stealth (Blues), the Corsair K90 (Reds), or the Das Keyboard Professional Silent (Browns). Last time I was there I didn't see the Das Keyboard, but I will keep an eye out for it. Otherwise I'm going to have an unfortunate employee hook up the Blackwidow and the K90 to a computer to try them out.

[...]

If it's a Blackwidow Stealth, it's also on browns. Non-stealth Blackwidows are blues.
I'm pretty sure that's what you meant, but just to be sure. ^_^

GnomeTank

DoctorArch wrote:

Hmmm...anyone have an opinion if I am missing too much by going with the Rosewill Mechanical Keyboard RK-9000BR (Browns) for 30 dollars less than the Das Keyboard Silent (Browns)?

Probably a good question for @GnomeTank.

Probably not much. I bought the Das because it came highly recommended and has a cool name (seriously)...but I've heard good things about Rosewill boards, so if you can save 30 bucks, do it.

DoctorArch

GnomeTank wrote: »

DoctorArch wrote:

Hmmm...anyone have an opinion if I am missing too much by going with the Rosewill Mechanical Keyboard RK-9000BR (Browns) for 30 dollars less than the Das Keyboard Silent (Browns)?

Probably a good question for @GnomeTank.

Probably not much. I bought the Das because it came highly recommended and has a cool name (seriously)...but I've heard good things about Rosewill boards, so if you can save 30 bucks, do it.

Actually, it looks like Best Buy has the Das Keyboard Silent here for $133 plus free shipping.

GnomeTank

That's about what I paid for mine from Newegg.

cardboard delusions

If you aren't in a rush to get a keyboard, Newegg pretty much has a deal with the Rosewills every couple of weeks where you get back a Newegg giftcard with purchase for $20-$30.

Aiserou

minor incident wrote: »

Personally, I think the Blackwidow may be a better typist's keyboard, but it's loud like a motherfucker. Good plan to test them out first. I eventually replaced my Blackwidow with a K90 due to the noise issue, but both are great keyboards.

Edit: seriously, the first night I had it, I was using it while my wife was in the kitchen. Within minutes, she yelled (from two rooms away) "what the hell is that noise?!"

What is your opinion on the brightness of the back-lighting? A review I read (maybe the anandtech?) said that even on it's lowest setting it's very bright. He also mentioned that the paint on the keys was of dubious quality (bubbling in a few keys).

Same questions to anyone else with a K90.

I am this close to pulling the trigger on that keyboard but those two things are making me hesitant.

Aioua

Aiserou wrote: »

minor incident wrote: »

Personally, I think the Blackwidow may be a better typist's keyboard, but it's loud like a motherfucker. Good plan to test them out first. I eventually replaced my Blackwidow with a K90 due to the noise issue, but both are great keyboards.

Edit: seriously, the first night I had it, I was using it while my wife was in the kitchen. Within minutes, she yelled (from two rooms away) "what the hell is that noise?!"

What is your opinion on the brightness of the back-lighting? A review I read (maybe the anandtech?) said that even on it's lowest setting it's very bright. He also mentioned that the paint on the keys was of dubious quality (bubbling in a few keys).

Same questions to anyone else with a K90.

I am this close to pulling the trigger on that keyboard but those two things are making me hesitant.

The Blackwidow Ult has three backlight settings (well, four if you count the pulsing mode), I feel like the dimmest one is fine. It could be dimmer, I guess. It's not any brighter than my deathadder. Only real point of comparison I got.

Also I don't know what he's on about with the paint. Admittedly I've only had mine a few months, but the way they paint these there shouldn't ever be a problem.

minor incident

Aiserou wrote: »

minor incident wrote: »

Personally, I think the Blackwidow may be a better typist's keyboard, but it's loud like a motherfucker. Good plan to test them out first. I eventually replaced my Blackwidow with a K90 due to the noise issue, but both are great keyboards.

Edit: seriously, the first night I had it, I was using it while my wife was in the kitchen. Within minutes, she yelled (from two rooms away) "what the hell is that noise?!"

What is your opinion on the brightness of the back-lighting? A review I read (maybe the anandtech?) said that even on it's lowest setting it's very bright. He also mentioned that the paint on the keys was of dubious quality (bubbling in a few keys).

Same questions to anyone else with a K90.

I am this close to pulling the trigger on that keyboard but those two things are making me hesitant.

I keep mine on the lowest setting. It's not terribly bright at all. Just enough to see in the dark easily. Medium isn't too bad either, but is a little bright in total darkness.

as far as the paint, I've never seen any sort of issue like that. The k90 is built like a tank. Seriously, the only minor fault I see with it is the lack of mechanical keys for the f-keys and the home/end/insert block.

Aiserou

That's exactly what I needed to hear. Time to check my bank account and see if it can withstand the hit.

Edit: And then suddenly it's out of stock at amazon and newegg.

Edit 2: Annnnd its here! It feels so good! The space bar makes a sound like an exclamation point at the end of every word and it is glorious. The lighting doesn't seem to bright, but right now I am in an office environment so it's not exactly my gaming room with blankets over all the windows. Unfortunately I am going to be pretty busy this weekend so I won't get much time to play with it until Monday night. If I have any more relevant tidbits on it I'll try to remember to post here in case anyone else is thinking of buying a K90. This edit has largely been an excuse to go clicky claky on my new toy.

DoctorArch

After almost two weeks of switching between the Blackwidow Ultimate and the Das Keyboard Professional Silent, I think I've settled on keeping the Blackwidow. The Das Keyboard, while an amazing keyboard, is lighter than the Blackwidow and doesn't seem to "stick" to the desk like the Blackwidow does, resulting in me pushing it around on occasion while I type. The difference in sound is there as the Das Keyboard doesn't have the audible click like the Blackwidow, but the reduced resistance in the Daw Keyboard's switches seems to affect my typing. In short, when I'm typing on the Blackwidow, things just seem to flow naturally while with the Das Keyboard every now and then the keyboard itself seems to interrupt my flow.

Aiserou

So far I am pretty much in love with my K90. The only complaint I have is that my hand starts to cramp up a little when gaming, but I'm chalking that up to growing pains from moving from a Microsoft ergo keyboard to a non-ergo. Gonna try to find one of those wrist rests in a local store and see if that helps any. The keys feel great, the thing is built like a tank,macros are easy to set on the fly, and any complaints about the lights being to bright are totally unfounded.

Alt post: I will seriously pay out the ass for a backlit mechanical ergo with a big soft wrist rest like on these. That's not to much to ask, is it?

GnomeTank

I actually naturally move my keyboard around alot, because I play a a lot of RTS's that require strange hand positions...so the lightness of the Das works for me...but I'm glad you enjoy your Blackwidow.

acidlacedpenguin

Does anyone know if there exists a microswitch that requires say, two to three times more force to press than cherry blues? I want a keyboard that will turn my sausage fingers into burly manly-man kill fingers.

cardboard delusions

Cherry MX Blacks are 65g actuation force, probably close to what you're looking for. Steel Series is the most common one you'll find that uses them.

Aioua

You could also get one of the unicomps with the buckling spring switches, theyre the stiffest around afaik.

Foomy

if you want buckling spring switches, than go hunt down a pre-1994 IBM Model M. doesn't get better than that. I just recently fixed my 83 key xt keyboard for my IBM 5150 and forgot just how great buckling spring switches were to type on. I have cherry blacks in my regular pc's keyboard, and sorta wish I had gone with an IBM model M or unicomp now.

chrishallett83

Foomy wrote: »

if you want buckling spring switches, than go hunt down a pre-1994 IBM Model M. doesn't get better than that. I just recently fixed my 83 key xt keyboard for my IBM 5150 and forgot just how great buckling spring switches were to type on. I have cherry blacks in my regular pc's keyboard, and sorta wish I had gone with an IBM model M or unicomp now.

They make brand new ones...

http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html

Djeet

I'll take the dropping of the Model M in this thread as serendipity.

Can anyone explain why my Model M (PS/2) keyboard would have the Ctrl, Alt, Print Screen and Scroll Lock buttons not work? It's not Sticky Keys. It's a Dell desktop (XPS 720 H2C).

USB keyboard crapped out (toddlers!) so I replaced with my old Model M. When trying to logon I found out the Shift key didn't work (Caps Lock does), eventually the Shift key started working again (no clue why), but Alt, Print Screen and Scroll Lock do not. After much futzing with Accessibility controls, re-installing chipset drivers, re-installing USB controller drivers, re-installing keyboard drivers I've managed to not only not get those 2 buttons working, but to also break the Shift button again.

Never realized I used Ctrl so much until it was gone.

I used this app to test keyboard functionality. Hitting the broken keys shows no response in this app.

Falken

Test it on another computer.

After that, pull the entire thing apart and clean every contact, check for damage, etc... Try not to lose anything.

chrishallett83

Yeah, dirty contacts.

Triple B

So after some digging, I've concluded that my ideal keyboard does not exist. The perfect keyboard for me would have:

-Cherry MX brown (or even black) switches
-Backlighting
-Contoured/textured WASD and 1-6 keys, much like those included with the Corsair K60
-Media buttons including some kind of on-the-fly volume adjustment buttons

I've found keyboards with 2 or 3 of these features, but I've never, ever seen one with all four. These are the four requirements on which I pretty much cannot compromise. I require backlighting, brown or black switches (fucking hate blues), and media buttons. The contoured keys I suppose are not mandatory, but I feel like they'd help me a great deal when gaming, especially the 1-6 ones. I've just always had trouble with those, specifically when I'm playing an mmo or something and I'm the healer.

Any suggestions, or am I just too picky to have nice things?

GnomeTank

Media buttons are going to be hard thing to find on any high end mechanical, because most people consider them gimmicky. You can't make due with backlighting + browns and a macro program that allows you to make crazy key combos to media functions? Like Shift+Alt+F1 for volume or something.

Foomy

Well if you can find a keyboard with the other 3 options, swapping keycaps on a keyboard with cherry switches is super easy. and you can get all sorts of new keycaps, surely something would fit your style.

try asking the folks over in this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide
if anyone can point you in the direction of what you want, than that would be the place.

Triple B

Honestly, I might even consider using Cherry MX Red switches. If the Corsair K90 came with the same contoured replacement keycaps the K60 did (or if I could find just the keycaps separately), I'd jump on it. Hell even if the K60 was backlit, I'd go with that one instead. Don't know why Corsair chose to omit key features from each model like that. It's not even a matter of color so much as the contour. Just being able to find 1-6 without having to look at the damn keyboard would be such a help. Unfortunately the only keycaps I've seen that are available to buy are simply colored differently.

Malkor

I think the Das Keyboard I have now has Cherry Blue switches. Typing is perfect, but it seems like I don't press down as hard naturally while playing FPS games or even MMOs.

Then I intentionally press hard, and it seems too hard. Also @Foomy, that picture is exactly how it feels!

edit: The sounds. They're slightly intoxicating.

Kris

DoctorArch wrote: »

Hmmm...anyone have an opinion if I am missing too much by going with the Rosewill Mechanical Keyboard RK-9000BR (Browns) for 30 dollars less than the Das Keyboard Silent (Browns)?

Probably a good question for @GnomeTank.

How loud is that Rosewill (browns) in real life? Is it usable in a cubicle-esque office environment without annoying everyone around me? I want a mechanical keyboard for work since I love the feel of typing on my Blackwidow at home, but I would be murdered if I brought this thing in there to use.

GnomeTank

Here's the thing about Browns v. Blues. Browns are actually louder on a decibel scale...but the noise is much less of a "click" and more of a "thud", and it blends in to background noise MUCH easier. If you are in a cubicle by yourself, a keyboard with Browns shouldn't bother people once they are used to it. Blues probably would bother them, because it's a much harsher click sound.

minor incident

GnomeTank wrote: »

Here's the thing about Browns v. Blues. Browns are actually louder on a decibel scale...but the noise is much less of a "click" and more of a "thud", and it blends in to background noise MUCH easier. If you are in a cubicle by yourself, a keyboard with Browns shouldn't bother people once they are used to it. Blues probably would bother them, because it's a much harsher click sound.

Exactly this. It's like the difference between fingernails tapping on a desk, versus fingertips tapping on a desk. Similar volume, but a dull "thud" is much less noticeable/annoying.

Kris

GnomeTank wrote: »

Here's the thing about Browns v. Blues. Browns are actually louder on a decibel scale...but the noise is much less of a "click" and more of a "thud", and it blends in to background noise MUCH easier. If you are in a cubicle by yourself, a keyboard with Browns shouldn't bother people once they are used to it. Blues probably would bother them, because it's a much harsher click sound.

Oh, cool. Thanks for the great description. In that case, I think my wife would probably appreciate browns in my home office as well.

Cantido

Kris wrote: »

GnomeTank wrote: »

Here's the thing about Browns v. Blues. Browns are actually louder on a decibel scale...but the noise is much less of a "click" and more of a "thud", and it blends in to background noise MUCH easier. If you are in a cubicle by yourself, a keyboard with Browns shouldn't bother people once they are used to it. Blues probably would bother them, because it's a much harsher click sound.

Oh, cool. Thanks for the great description. In that case, I think my wife would probably appreciate browns in my home office as well.

This discussion compelled me to give my Quickfire a rest and put the Blackwidow Stealth back in, and I can confirm the Browns feel quieter. Gameplay wise, they require more force too.