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Constitution Dead?
hanskey
Registered User
Registered User
I'm going to keep this simple. There have been several recent laws that have some severe consequences and there are several interpretations of what this means.
First, we had the Patriot Act.
Then, the NDAA, which while controversy swirls, certainly continues to abrogate the Writ of Habeas Corpus.
Now the next move is The Enemy Expatriation Act, wherein an American Citizen may be stripped of citizenship without trial of any kind:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/06/new-bill-known-as-enemy-expatriation-act-would-allow-government-to-strip-citizenship-without-conviction/
And for a far more articulate take than my own on the rise of corporate power and how it has supplanted democracy, I bring you an interview of Chris Hedges going by the YouTube name of "Brace Yourself! The American Empire Is Over & The Descent Is Going To Be Horrifying!":
It is my belief that the great dream, that great democratic experiment known as the U. S. Constitution is now dead, for all intents and purposes. It was sacrificed to our multinational corporations, in what Hedges calls a "slow coup". As such, I see no legitimacy left in our government. Unfortunately, these issues cannot be addressed through electoral politics, because that process is now entirely controlled by multinational corporations thanks in part to the SCOTUS's Citizens United decision and ALEC. The corporations own the politicians, some of the citizens and ALL the voting machines, but I feel a bit of hope, that the Occupy/99% movement will succeed somehow.
I guess there is some hope thanks to infighting as well:
http://ampedstatus.org/full-blown-civil-war-erupts-on-wall-street-as-reality-finally-hits-the-financial-elite-they-start-turning-on-each-other/
Looks like Wall Streeters are suing each other for billions/trillions..
Hopefully one of you wonderful people can correct me and point out something that doesn't suck in America and spell diminishing returns for all the children of the earth.
First, we had the Patriot Act.
Then, the NDAA, which while controversy swirls, certainly continues to abrogate the Writ of Habeas Corpus.
Now the next move is The Enemy Expatriation Act, wherein an American Citizen may be stripped of citizenship without trial of any kind:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/06/new-bill-known-as-enemy-expatriation-act-would-allow-government-to-strip-citizenship-without-conviction/
And for a far more articulate take than my own on the rise of corporate power and how it has supplanted democracy, I bring you an interview of Chris Hedges going by the YouTube name of "Brace Yourself! The American Empire Is Over & The Descent Is Going To Be Horrifying!":
It is my belief that the great dream, that great democratic experiment known as the U. S. Constitution is now dead, for all intents and purposes. It was sacrificed to our multinational corporations, in what Hedges calls a "slow coup". As such, I see no legitimacy left in our government. Unfortunately, these issues cannot be addressed through electoral politics, because that process is now entirely controlled by multinational corporations thanks in part to the SCOTUS's Citizens United decision and ALEC. The corporations own the politicians, some of the citizens and ALL the voting machines, but I feel a bit of hope, that the Occupy/99% movement will succeed somehow.
I guess there is some hope thanks to infighting as well:
http://ampedstatus.org/full-blown-civil-war-erupts-on-wall-street-as-reality-finally-hits-the-financial-elite-they-start-turning-on-each-other/
Looks like Wall Streeters are suing each other for billions/trillions..
Hopefully one of you wonderful people can correct me and point out something that doesn't suck in America and spell diminishing returns for all the children of the earth.
hanskey on
This discussion has been closed.
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My Band "The Wicked Girls" http://soundcloud.com/the-wicked-girls/sets
Meh. If it has legs then it will have to be in spite of my rant or because you actually followed the links and informed yourself prior to posting. Of course, had you done that, then hyperbole would not have been your word of choice.
DEAL. WITH. IT.
If you think this constitutes our darkest days then we may have read very different history books...
We must also read different links, because you obviously did not read those I posted or you could probably come up with a more substantive retort. You know ... related to the material ... in the links.
No. Hyperbole still sticks. The same war-drums and cries of the imminent collapse of civil liberties were heard when the Patriot Act was rolled out; that the FEMA camps and forced internment were but a pen-stroke away. Didn't happen.
This line, from your precious links, is why the hyperbole label will be forever affixed to threads like this:
Saying someone is "terrorizing" someone, and labeling a group as terrorists are two very different things. However, if you think ANY conservative congressman would ever step up and try to get the Occupy movement labeled as a terrorist group in the vein of AQ, I got some swampland to sell ya.
You seem to believe that the NDAA is quite substantively worse in its treatment of people and abdication of our stated ideals than, say, the Indian Removal Act of 1830. I disagree.
I am. Frankly that article reads like very well written legal propaganda defending extra-constitutional powers granted illegally under the Patriot Act, by a treasonous Congress and President. It also equates the President's assertion of power as equivalent to actual law, which it is clearly not. It also focuses very clearly on those facets of NDAA that are the least different than existing assertions/laws, while overlooking most of the actual law.
But hey, if you want to conflate well-written legal opinion with verifiable fact, then be my guest. Just don't expect me to drink the kool-aid with you.
Morally I see it as remarkably similar. In the case of the Indian Removal Act of 1830 we (well the President and the Congress) trampled the rights of natives that we had contracts with in the form of treaties. In the case of NDAA our rights are trashed by our President and Congress at the behest of corporate America.
As for how the NDAA plays out on the ground: we''ll never know if they do it the way they are supposed to, but even before they passed it the U.S. government was illegally renditioning citizens including several well-known cases involving minors being abducted from their homes by our government, never to be heard of again (at least not to this date).
That chill you feel down your spine is a long line of native american ghosts queuing up to kick you square in the balls for not knowing anything about anything.
I'm simply shocked that you really think that a return to the tyrannical practice of imprisonment without trial is good, or OK, or anything other than the practical end of democracy. That's what I find chilling. Although, I appreciate you bringing up mostly irrelevant data. At least the democracy was something like functioning in the 1830's, although it did not include most of the people it should have (women, minorities, etc.).
To whom are you referring?
You suck at this. You do realize this? It doesn't matter if your a fair bit Cherokee that does make you an expert on what happened to them nor does it mean you can't be told your wrong.
You made a poor OP and are being super combative. So nobody really wants to converse with you.
My Band "The Wicked Girls" http://soundcloud.com/the-wicked-girls/sets
If you don't have a better source, I think that says a lot about the point of view you are trying to assert.
I don't mean to offend you personally, but I think we've all built up an allergy to videos of that kind. It is a propaganda video, plain and simple. Attempting to use it as a starting point for a debate is not a good idea in the first place. And then when people disagree with your perspective, you claim to be "shocked" at their attitude. Maybe you really are shocked or maybe you're saying so as a rhetorical tactic but either way it's kind of tiresome.
I'm sorry, I don't know much about NDAA in particular but when I click on a thread because "zombies" are in the thread title (and that is really the only reason I clicked in here) and see a Zeitgeist-esque video with Nazis at the halfway mark and you talking about how "shocked" you are that people don't care about the government disappearing people in the middle of the night, well it's hard to take you seriously.
Also, isn't this NDAA thread #3?
Personally, I'm perfectly happy to combat for now, then when I'm not so angry at our elites I'll ignore this thread, like everyone else.
If no one wants to post, then why is the thread so busy I can barely keep up?
Oh yes. Right on. Exactly.
My Band "The Wicked Girls" http://soundcloud.com/the-wicked-girls/sets
Some call them multinational corporations, some call them people.
I call them zombies, because they are mindless fictional mockeries of real humanity.
Again, I'm not trying to personally annoy or insult you, but I don't think it's the OP that's so bad as much as it's the "the government is disappearing people into the night look at this video comparing our society to Nazi Germany and I can't believe you people aren't bothered by all this I'm so shocked!" that people are taking issue with.
Because, come on. Do you really believe all this? Like, truly? Do you really believe we're at our darkest days? Do you really believe the government is actually, actively disappearing people? Do you really believe our society either even remotely resembles a totalitarian regime, or is headed in that direction?
Those aren't rhetorical questions: I'm genuinely curious if you believe everything you've posted or you are exaggerating or what. Because I cannot wrap my head around people that genuinely believe these things and it's kind of difficult to argue with them on an even keel.
The fact that it's impossible to tell whether you're being sarcastic here is just one of the reasons that no one is willing to listen to you.
If I can't convince even an internet discussion then how big a threat can I be? How courageous you must be for anonymously snarking at someone you will never meet.
Zombies is the selling point there.
That's right, keep talking. It's like you can't even help yourself.
The NDAA doesn't appear in law until after the execution of Osama and our exit from Iraq?
The only thing that the NDAA will be useful for right now is in suppressing the Occupy Wall Street movement. It's such an obvious tie-in I'm sure everyone just assumed you'd work it out in the end.
Also there's zombies I guess
As I recall there were parts of the PATRIOT act that streamlined data transfer and agency interaction. These are good things.
Plus he's issued a public disagreement with the new powers given to the Executive and a refusal to use them,
But I guess I know what you'll say to that.
My Band "The Wicked Girls" http://soundcloud.com/the-wicked-girls/sets
People disapproved of my decision to abandon higher cognition and consume human flesh, but now who's got the upper hand? Or leg, I'm not picky
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Whelp thats it folks, shows over.
He also sadly believes wire-taping is constitutional as long as its random. Which I disagree about and am not happy with him over.
My Band "The Wicked Girls" http://soundcloud.com/the-wicked-girls/sets