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PA Comic: Wednesday, Jan 11, 2012 - The Way Forward

Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
edited January 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
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Steam name: munkus_beaver
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Posts

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Well that is how Vampire the Masquerade was played

    Brainleech on
    A.jpg
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    His face is all wrong for that head shape.

  • JucJuc Registered User
    Nah, she's just a girl.
    They're supposed to look different.

  • AurichAurich Registered User regular
    I like that none of those are mutually exclusive. I know what my next campaign is going to be!

  • jackisrealjackisreal Registered User
    I feel like this was drawn by Scott Kurtz

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  • AshokaAshoka A Hub subforum that works? Registered User
    edited January 2012
    I read that as moose skulls at first and thought, wow cool. I mean mouse skulls are cool too... I guess...

    Ashoka on
    WNskB.jpg
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    jackisreal wrote:
    I feel like this was drawn by Scott Kurtz

    Exactly, I thought Trenches was suddenly going on a different story tangent until I double checked and saw it was PA.

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  • OolongOolong Registered User regular
  • AurichAurich Registered User regular
    Penny Arcade does the orange/pink nose thing often. Especially, for some reason, when they're drawing a specific real person.

  • cfsbrawlcfsbrawl Registered User regular
    "We visualize our game with a powerful hallucinogen"

    made me laugh out loud.

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    yeah this is pretty much what i expect all of the 5e focus group/feedback from the fans type shit to be

    christ, wizards has a terrible idea here

  • zfleemanzfleeman Registered User regular
    I must have missed something. Has anything been announced about Fifth Edition? I'm a relatively new to D&D, so this is exciting!

  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote:
    Well that is how Vampire the Masquerade was played

    Don't you mean 'Vampire the Mousequerade'?

    "A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    zfleeman wrote:
    I must have missed something. Has anything been announced about Fifth Edition? I'm a relatively new to D&D, so this is exciting!

    5th Edition has been announced as a thing Wizards of the Coast is working on

    with this edition they are intending it to be both modular and "old school" (which is sort of mutually incompatible if you know anything about the old editions of D&D). They're attempting to reach out to their fans, both old and new, for input and playtesting.

    All good ideas in theory

    In practice, you get this comic.

  • zfleemanzfleeman Registered User regular
    5th Edition has been announced as a thing Wizards of the Coast is working on

    with this edition they are intending it to be both modular and "old school" (which is sort of mutually incompatible if you know anything about the old editions of D&D). They're attempting to reach out to their fans, both old and new, for input and playtesting.

    All good ideas in theory

    In practice, you get this comic.

    I've never played D&D, but I've DM'd a few 4e/essentials games, and had a lot of fun. I bought 3 months of D&D Insider, and went nuts. That was last year, so a new edition would probably light a new fire in my pants. Should I be this excited? I know the stipulation is for fans to get their panties in a bunch when a new version comes out.

  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    A new edition?

    already?

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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    zfleeman wrote:
    5th Edition has been announced as a thing Wizards of the Coast is working on

    with this edition they are intending it to be both modular and "old school" (which is sort of mutually incompatible if you know anything about the old editions of D&D). They're attempting to reach out to their fans, both old and new, for input and playtesting.

    All good ideas in theory

    In practice, you get this comic.

    I've never played D&D, but I've DM'd a few 4e/essentials games, and had a lot of fun. I bought 3 months of D&D Insider, and went nuts. That was last year, so a new edition would probably light a new fire in my pants. Should I be this excited? I know the stipulation is for fans to get their panties in a bunch when a new version comes out.

    actually the majority of the D&D fanbase groans, bitches, and gnashes teeth every time a new edition comes out because it makes all their previously purchased books obsolete and leads to a further fragmentation of the fanbase between people who will adopt the new edition and people who will not.

    4e, in particular, fractured the fanbase hard with 3.5 fans going with Pathfinder (a non-WotC made D&D alternative compatible with 3.5 books) and 4e.

    New editions of RPGs are not like patches to your favorite video game. They're more like sequels to a game you've already spent hundreds of dollars buying DLC for.

  • GospreyGosprey Registered User
    I want to be able to have a really pretty character sheet running on an Android tablet, with my DM running his stuff from a laptop that automatically updates me with all the status and condition effects currently impacting me. Then I hit a button, a number is generated, and I succeed or fail (or pick another option). If I want to heal another party member, I click an ability, the request goes through the DM's screen, and gets sent through to the other party member, updating automatically.

    It will be interesting to see how much of a technological leap WotC is willing to make, given that by the time it comes out, pretty much every phone will be a `smart' phone. Do we really need physical dice any more?

    I would like to think that the advance will be more than looking up rules from a PDF.

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    WotC, historically, has fucked up every single piece of technological software or hardware integration into D&D

    they literally have a track record of 0% successful pieces of software that they actually supported and functioned properly over time.

    You can, currently, use your Insider membership to access databases of creatures and their online character creator thing but only via their site through a clunky web interface

    They did, at one time, have a character generator program for 4e that was pretty slick and easy to use that you could download for free then unlock and update with a current Insider membership

    they discontinued that program for the same reason they stopped releasing PDFs of their books: they were basically really easy to pirate.

    When 3rd Edition came out, the PHB came with this nifty character creator program demo that they said they'd update and expand. That never happened.

    When 4e came out, they said they'd have a Character Creator and monster database program and adventure making tools, which they did have... for a little while before they intentionally killed it and switched everything to clunky web databases to fight piracy.

    When 4e came out, they said they'd have codes in the books you buy in the stores that would get you a digital copy and unlock that book for their tools and stuff. That happened... until they realize it basically aided piracy and they stopped doing that.

    They also had grand plans for a digital tabletop feature where you could play online with people with a 3D program akin to the (totally free and fan-made) MapTool

    that never happened

    basically don't get your hopes up that WotC will do anything right re: computer technology

  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    Some people will never accept a PRNG over dice despite the fact that all but the best dice will be more biased than a PRNG.

  • Descendant XDescendant X Registered User regular
    jackal wrote:
    Some people will never accept a PRNG over dice despite the fact that all but the best dice will be more biased than a PRNG.

    And this is an issue how? One of the joys of playing D&D is the superstition around dice. A few guys in my group still talk about the "root beer d20" that was lost almost 20 years ago. Apparently it could be relied on to roll a twenty every time you needed it to.

    Also, get off my lawn.

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  • zfleemanzfleeman Registered User regular
    When did they discontinue the monster software? I remember using that February 2011.

  • PeccaviPeccavi oh... oh my!Registered User regular
    Welp, there goes my hopes for a 4e Neverwinter Nights style game.

    kvhn.png
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo When life gives you lemons... ...eat your delicious lemonsRegistered User regular
    Peccavi wrote:
    Welp, there goes my hopes for a 4e Neverwinter Nights style game.

    I think that has yet to be officially cancelled. It could happen.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    jackal wrote:
    Some people will never accept a PRNG over dice despite the fact that all but the best dice will be more biased than a PRNG.

    And this is an issue how? One of the joys of playing D&D is the superstition around dice. A few guys in my group still talk about the "root beer d20" that was lost almost 20 years ago. Apparently it could be relied on to roll a twenty every time you needed it to.

    Also, get off my lawn.

    Man this sort of superstition is both a massive boon for general hilarity and a really frustrating scapegoat.

    Either way it's awesome and I wouldn't have it any other way, too many funny stories from the randomness of dice rolls.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Pony wrote:
    zfleeman wrote:
    5th Edition has been announced as a thing Wizards of the Coast is working on

    with this edition they are intending it to be both modular and "old school" (which is sort of mutually incompatible if you know anything about the old editions of D&D). They're attempting to reach out to their fans, both old and new, for input and playtesting.

    All good ideas in theory

    In practice, you get this comic.

    I've never played D&D, but I've DM'd a few 4e/essentials games, and had a lot of fun. I bought 3 months of D&D Insider, and went nuts. That was last year, so a new edition would probably light a new fire in my pants. Should I be this excited? I know the stipulation is for fans to get their panties in a bunch when a new version comes out.

    actually the majority of the D&D fanbase groans, bitches, and gnashes teeth every time a new edition comes out because it makes all their previously purchased books obsolete and leads to a further fragmentation of the fanbase between people who will adopt the new edition and people who will not.

    4e, in particular, fractured the fanbase hard with 3.5 fans going with Pathfinder (a non-WotC made D&D alternative compatible with 3.5 books) and 4e.

    New editions of RPGs are not like patches to your favorite video game. They're more like sequels to a game you've already spent hundreds of dollars buying DLC for.

    And to think WotC wonder why people pirate their stuff so much.

  • PeccaviPeccavi oh... oh my!Registered User regular
    Mojo_Jojo wrote:
    Peccavi wrote:
    Welp, there goes my hopes for a 4e Neverwinter Nights style game.

    I think that has yet to be officially cancelled. It could happen.

    I meant other than Neverwinter. Because Neverwinter is nothing like Neverwinter Nights.

    kvhn.png
  • TubeTube Says some shit Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Anzekay wrote:
    And to think WotC wonder why people pirate their stuff so much.

    Yeah, it's totally just to stick it to the man.

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    A couple days ago I stumbled across a place that focuses on 'sexventures,' yes specifically in regard to D&D. I couldn't help but be curious.

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  • kingworkskingworks Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote:
    A couple days ago I stumbled across a place that focuses on 'sexventures,' yes specifically in regard to D&D. I couldn't help but be curious.
    Do they redefine the "take 10" rule?

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Anzekay wrote:
    And to think WotC wonder why people pirate their stuff so much.

    Yeah, it's totally just to stick it to the man.

    I was more implying that buying all the books for one edition can be expensive, and to suddenly be faced with the prospect of spending a similar sum of money on the next edition (if you want to play all the new stuff that will continue to get updates for the forseeable future) can be frustrating to some people, in addition to suddenly having your current set of books 'obselete' to an extent. I don't know what the pricing is like outside of Australia, but the books aren't even cheap to begin with.

    That's not to say that pirating the stuff is justified, but I can certainly understand why people would (aside from the usual reasons for pirating, of course).

    And naturally there is nothing stopping you just playing the ruleset you have and forgetting the existance of a new ruleset entirely, but some people are going to want to get on board will all the new stuff but may feel a little bitter that all the money they have spent so far will be essentially useless to the new ruleset.

    Anzekay on
  • KorlashKorlash Registered User
    Anzekay wrote:
    Anzekay wrote:
    And to think WotC wonder why people pirate their stuff so much.

    Yeah, it's totally just to stick it to the man.

    I was more implying that buying all the books for one edition can be expensive, and to suddenly be faced with the prospect of spending a similar sum of money on the next edition (if you want to play all the new stuff that will continue to get updates for the forseeable future) can be frustrating to some people, in addition to suddenly having your current set of books 'obselete' to an extent. I don't know what the pricing is like outside of Australia, but the books aren't even cheap to begin with.

    That's not to say that pirating the stuff is justified, but I can certainly understand why people would (aside from the usual reasons for pirating, of course).

    And naturally there is nothing stopping you just playing the ruleset you have and forgetting the existance of a new ruleset entirely, but some people are going to want to get on board will all the new stuff but may feel a little bitter that all the money they have spent so far will be essentially useless to the new ruleset.

    As far as I know, your books don't go up in flames when the new edition comes out. You can still use them...

    396796-1.png
  • THESPOOKYTHESPOOKY There's no room for "gods" in my town. Registered User regular
    Pony wrote:
    WotC, historically, has fucked up every single piece of technological software or hardware integration into D&D

    they literally have a track record of 0% successful pieces of software that they actually supported and functioned properly over time.

    You can, currently, use your Insider membership to access databases of creatures and their online character creator thing but only via their site through a clunky web interface

    They did, at one time, have a character generator program for 4e that was pretty slick and easy to use that you could download for free then unlock and update with a current Insider membership

    they discontinued that program for the same reason they stopped releasing PDFs of their books: they were basically really easy to pirate.

    When 3rd Edition came out, the PHB came with this nifty character creator program demo that they said they'd update and expand. That never happened.

    When 4e came out, they said they'd have a Character Creator and monster database program and adventure making tools, which they did have... for a little while before they intentionally killed it and switched everything to clunky web databases to fight piracy.

    When 4e came out, they said they'd have codes in the books you buy in the stores that would get you a digital copy and unlock that book for their tools and stuff. That happened... until they realize it basically aided piracy and they stopped doing that.

    They also had grand plans for a digital tabletop feature where you could play online with people with a 3D program akin to the (totally free and fan-made) MapTool

    that never happened

    basically don't get your hopes up that WotC will do anything right re: computer technology

    The current D&Di tools are incredibly useful, it sounds like you're just upset that you have to pay for them/can't pirate them. I have never heard anyone have so much distaste for such a handy set of tools, and as to a "clunky interface"...well, I just don't even get that. You cannot blame a company for wanting to actually make money for their product, either. And there totally is a Virtual Tabletop available to all subscribers right now.

    4pPO9UB.png
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Korlash wrote:
    Anzekay wrote:
    Anzekay wrote:
    And to think WotC wonder why people pirate their stuff so much.

    Yeah, it's totally just to stick it to the man.

    I was more implying that buying all the books for one edition can be expensive, and to suddenly be faced with the prospect of spending a similar sum of money on the next edition (if you want to play all the new stuff that will continue to get updates for the forseeable future) can be frustrating to some people, in addition to suddenly having your current set of books 'obselete' to an extent. I don't know what the pricing is like outside of Australia, but the books aren't even cheap to begin with.

    That's not to say that pirating the stuff is justified, but I can certainly understand why people would (aside from the usual reasons for pirating, of course).

    And naturally there is nothing stopping you just playing the ruleset you have and forgetting the existance of a new ruleset entirely, but some people are going to want to get on board will all the new stuff but may feel a little bitter that all the money they have spent so far will be essentially useless to the new ruleset.

    As far as I know, your books don't go up in flames when the new edition comes out. You can still use them...

    I did mention that. :3

  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    I was going to post that the Surface 2 would be good for high tech d&ding, but apparently someone is already working on it. Honestly though who has $8K to spend on a gaming table.

  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    THESPOOKY wrote:
    The current D&Di tools are incredibly useful, it sounds like you're just upset that you have to pay for them/can't pirate them. I have never heard anyone have so much distaste for such a handy set of tools, and as to a "clunky interface"...well, I just don't even get that. You cannot blame a company for wanting to actually make money for their product, either. And there totally is a Virtual Tabletop available to all subscribers right now.

    Man what? Did you ever use the old character creator? Far superior to the current version. I don't really have any issue with WotC putting out a new version of D&D, but I'm not going to pretend their handling of software hasn't been atrocious.

    PSN: allenquid
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Korlash wrote:
    Anzekay wrote:
    Anzekay wrote:
    And to think WotC wonder why people pirate their stuff so much.

    Yeah, it's totally just to stick it to the man.

    I was more implying that buying all the books for one edition can be expensive, and to suddenly be faced with the prospect of spending a similar sum of money on the next edition (if you want to play all the new stuff that will continue to get updates for the forseeable future) can be frustrating to some people, in addition to suddenly having your current set of books 'obselete' to an extent. I don't know what the pricing is like outside of Australia, but the books aren't even cheap to begin with.

    That's not to say that pirating the stuff is justified, but I can certainly understand why people would (aside from the usual reasons for pirating, of course).

    And naturally there is nothing stopping you just playing the ruleset you have and forgetting the existance of a new ruleset entirely, but some people are going to want to get on board will all the new stuff but may feel a little bitter that all the money they have spent so far will be essentially useless to the new ruleset.

    As far as I know, your books don't go up in flames when the new edition comes out. You can still use them...

    People say this like it's some kind of defense against publishing frequent and highly expensive relaunches of their entire RPG line

    it isn't, and you know why?

    Because of fanbase fracturing.

    If you only ever play with the same people for the rest of your life and you and your friends are perfectly content to say "No, we're stopping here, we're just going to stick to the old edition" then cool

    there's quite a few groups like that. there's still people playing 2nd or even 1st edition D&D, for cryin' out loud. but it does mean if you want to find other people to play D&D with (and, you know, the game does sort of require having other people to play with) then you now have the issue of which edition people are into playing.

    the conversion to 4e is a really good example of this. When 4e came out, D&D was not only totally reinvisioned from the ground up with a completely different playstyle and balance to the previous edition, WotC also revised their Open Gaming Licence in such a way that it basically made it nearly impossible for third party companies to make publishing 4e products a feasible business model.

    It specifically fucked over Paizo Publishing big time, whose business model at that point was almost entirely dependent on third party publishing of D&D supplement books and campaign settings. Paizo, in turn, released Pathfinder. Pathfinder is an alternative version of 3.5, which updates the rules and alters the base classes and corrects some (but not all) of the glaring problems and balance issues in 3.5. It's designed to be backwards compatible with 3.5 books, and Paizo has continued to support it with further publishings.

    Some people hated 4e. Either they didn't like the changes made to the game, or they didn't want to buy a whole whack of new books, or both. Those people, the ones who didn't abandon playing D&D entirely, switched to Pathfinder for the most part.

    This has led to a fragmented base, where you have two editions of D&D essentially competing against each other (and in the case of some Paizo employees, not exactly playing nice while doing so) for the same group of players in the same genre of roleplaying games

    If I'm looking to play with some dudes that I meet in my local gaming shop, or some guys I meet from the forums, or whatever, and they're like "We're playing D&D!" I have no guarantee they're playing 4e. In fact, odds are just as likely they are actually playing Pathfinder. It's a fragmented base.

    To draw a video gaming analogy, imagine Valve announced Team Fortress 3 was coming out tomorrow. None of your hats, weapons, or other DLC (which with TF2 many people buy with real money) will be compatible with the new game, and there will be new classes, some old classes will disappear or be drastically changed, and basic core gameplay concepts will be changed.

    some people are like "Whooo! New Team Fortress!"

    Others, who have invested not only quite a bit of time but also money into TF2, will say "I'm happy with just playing this game, thanks."

    it now leads to the Team Fortress fanbase fragmenting into TF2 players, TF3 players, and people who play both with different groups of people

    it's reasonable to find that frustrating, as a player and a fan, and it's reasonable to complain when it happens with increasing speed and frequency

    Pony on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    jackal wrote:
    I was going to post that the Surface 2 would be good for high tech d&ding, but apparently someone is already working on it. Honestly though who has $8K to spend on a gaming table.

    same kind of people who buy this thing

  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    Pretty. Looks more than big enough to mount a surface inside too. Match made in heaven.

  • Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    wow.... Gabe is getting VERY liberal with the shape of heads. Some of those are almost disturbing.

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