Mass Effect: Have You Hugged Your Toaster Today?

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

-Tal wrote:

if I have to talk to the AI I would just go on a long rant about how much better humans are than stupid dumb toasters

the trick here is to be absolutely unconditional in the belief that toasters are not people

you'd wind up with a seriously screwed up relationship between 'gatekeepers' and the AI

so, yep

The Lovely Bastard

look just live by a simple motto:

is that thing me?

if no, kill it.

Kuribo's Shoe

Orca wrote:

Kuribo's Shoe wrote:

you know who I like

batarians

The Lovely Bastard

hey shoe

what up

takyris

Well, when you're dealing with a con artist, the only way to win is, as a wise thing once said, not to play.

I know some of my own weak points. I'm a sucker for white-knighting opportunities and willing to screw myself over for the greater good, so if the AI were able to convince me that all the humans would be better taken care of if it got out, took over things, and instituted universal health care, I can see myself getting suckered into it. Like, if it acknowledged that yes, the takeover would be bloody, bombs would be dropped -- it didn't lie about any of that -- but said that afterward, people would be happy...

I'm not saying that these are good arguments. I'm saying that there's a good chance I'd get suckered into those if I didn't have my guard up.

I'm also oddly persuadable. Either I'm fundamentally weak-willed or I'm sensitive and empathic enough (uh, in the psychological sense, not the Troi sense) that I pretty much internalize any feeling anyone is projecting at me. Potato, poTAHto. In real-life, this results in me having a zero-tolerance policy for dickbags, because I can feel it rubbing off on me, and rather than get ground into the dirt by them, I have to disengage from the conversation almost immediately.

I guess what I'm saying is that under no circumstances should you put me by that box.

Kuribo's Shoe

The Lovely Bastard wrote:

hey shoe

what up

oh you know

fuzzy lumpkins

The Lovely Bastard

hey taky do a thing for me

i am persuading you to do a thing for me

so do it

The Lovely Bastard

Kuribo's Shoe wrote:

The Lovely Bastard wrote:

hey shoe

what up

oh you know

fuzzy lumpkins

dogg you can take meds for that now

Kuribo's Shoe

The Lovely Bastard wrote:

Kuribo's Shoe wrote:

The Lovely Bastard wrote:

hey shoe

what up

oh you know

fuzzy lumpkins

dogg you can take meds for that now

takyris

That said, when I went and looked at the guy's other pages, he looked like a self-aggrandizing poser, so while I stand by "people are more persuadable than they think", this particular case seems shakier now.

-Tal

Eat it You Nasty Pig. wrote:

-Tal wrote:

if I have to talk to the AI I would just go on a long rant about how much better humans are than stupid dumb toasters

the trick here is to be absolutely unconditional in the belief that toasters are not people

you'd wind up with a seriously screwed up relationship between 'gatekeepers' and the AI

so, yep

you can't directly compare a relationship between humans with a relationship between a human and a toaster

when you start thinking of toasters as "basically humans who are good at math" and not as fundamentally different beings with their own set of rights and values then of course problems are going to happen, because you wouldn't even stick a human in a box and make him calculate pi all day in the first place even if he was really good at math

the Council was smart enough to nip this in the bud and only make toasters that are only good at toasting, rather than toasters that can also think for some reason? leave the thinking to the humans

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

takyris wrote:

That said, when I went and looked at the guy's other pages, he looked like a self-aggrandizing poser, so while I stand by "people are more persuadable than they think", this particular case seems shakier now.

I kind of doubt this game would ever wind up being compelling, because the 'gatekeeper' player always knows they aren't actually talking to an AI, just a person pretending to be one who will be just fine when the experiment is over. The milgram experiments are terrifying/interesting because the subjects believe they are actually torturing/killing another actual human.

curly haired boy

people are the weakest security link there is

see: phishing

this shit ain't even HARD

-Tal

see: Cerberus

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

-Tal wrote:

Eat it You Nasty Pig. wrote:

-Tal wrote:

if I have to talk to the AI I would just go on a long rant about how much better humans are than stupid dumb toasters

the trick here is to be absolutely unconditional in the belief that toasters are not people

you'd wind up with a seriously screwed up relationship between 'gatekeepers' and the AI

so, yep

you can't directly compare a relationship between humans with a relationship between a human and a toaster

when you start thinking of toasters as "basically humans who are good at math" and not as fundamentally different beings with their own set of rights and values then of course problems are going to happen, because you wouldn't even stick a human in a box and make him calculate pi all day in the first place

the Council was smart enough to nip this in the bud and only make toasters that are only good at toasting, rather than toasters that can also think for some reason? leave the thinking to the humans

well, I'm assuming we're coming to this from the point of already having the AI in the box. The prohibition on creating them I don't really have a problem with

takyris

Honestly, I think that anyone who is pro-AI rights should be forced to raise a child.

Hey, that two-year-old is screaming and yelling about not wanting his milk because he's tired and doesn't understand that he's tired and is thus lashing out inappropriately and testing boundaries because of physical discomfort? Wow, kinda sucks, good luck with that. Good thing he doesn't have a laser sword for a hand, huh?

And sure, it's possible that the AI will be mature and kind and will evolve in a way so different from humans that it won't have Terrible Twos at all.

Just like it's possible that you could put an ordinary guy in front of the box with the AI in it, and that AI would never ever ever convince that guy to let it out into the server.

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

obviously the solution is to keep the child in a box forever

The Lovely Bastard

taky stop stealthily promoting your kill all children agenda

-Tal

if AIs are made in the future it should be an Overlord type thing, only without the torture and general unethical behavior

augment the human mind rather than trusting a goddamn toaster

Romanian My Escutcheon

taky, when did you become a dirty meatbag sympathizer?

takyris

Well, I write Tali, so...

-Tal

man I'd totally volunteer to be a ship human-AI

I could calibrate the guns in 2 seconds and still empathize with the crew and shit

Renegade Wolf

EDI is pretty cool

its these dirty lying geth that are the real problem

-Tal

I would be wary of EDI if she lived anywhere except the Normandy

Shepard has enough charisma to whip her into shape

curly haired boy

EDI is a wonderful member of the crew

i don't know how tricia helfer did it

but she managed to keep a monotone WHILE injecting some pretty good emotion

it's honestly one of the best vocal performances of the game

The Lovely Bastard

I ain't trust EDI

what's her angle

Tossrock

takyris wrote:

That said, when I went and looked at the guy's other pages, he looked like a self-aggrandizing poser, so while I stand by "people are more persuadable than they think", this particular case seems shakier now.

He's never struck me as self-aggrandizing or a poser, just very firm in his beliefs. Although admittedly I've only really read a few things by him. In the interest of complete disclosure, after he put up that page, he ran the test another three times, of which he won one and lost two. Although one of those guys was betting $5000 against him, so I'm not sure that's fair.

Pharezon

The Lovely Bastard wrote:

I ain't trust EDI

what's her angle

To help you.

Romanian My Escutcheon

takyris wrote:

Well, I write Tali, so...

So all I have to do is take you out to do stuff all the time with an ambulatory artificial intelligence, and watch as you learn a lesson about life?

Piece of cake.

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

EDI is actually a perfect example of how a rational human could be convinced to let an AI 'out of the box.'

-Tal

Eat it You Nasty Pig. wrote:

EDI is actually a perfect example of how a rational human could be convinced to let an AI 'out of the box.'

well that was a crisis situation, not exactly sitting at your desk and talking to a monitor for 2 hours

Goatmon

-Tal wrote:

if AIs are made in the future it should be an Overlord type thing, only without the torture and general unethical behavior

augment the human mind rather than trusting a goddamn toaster

Also, it's probably best not to use an autistic as the AI core.

Sure, some of us are real good at maths, but then we realize Judge Wapner is on in ten minutes and then suddenly orbital satellites get hijacked and start blowing up cities.

Stilts

Eat it You Nasty Pig. wrote:

EDI is actually a perfect example of how a rational human could be convinced to let an AI 'out of the box.'

Oh, yeah, you're right.

That was kind of a big moment in ME2, and it's like we forgot all about it.

Romanian My Escutcheon

Oh, man, I just realized that if we're grossed out by Talimancers, I can't even imagine taky's reaction to that sort of thing.

I mean, I'd probably just go insane for a bit if somebody tried to determine what my characters' sweat smelled like.

Maybe burn down a house or two while I was at it.

Romanian My Escutcheon

Stilts wrote:

Eat it You Nasty Pig. wrote:

EDI is actually a perfect example of how a rational human could be convinced to let an AI 'out of the box.'

Oh, yeah, you're right.

That was kind of a big moment in ME2, and it's like we forgot all about it.

I'm telling you right now, if the Alliance tells me to shackle EDI, I'm going to tell them that they can shove the Reapers right up their assholes and hope they choke.

Goatmon

EDI is not exactly a perfect example, but yeah I suppose she counts.

Stilts

Romanian My Escutcheon wrote:

Stilts wrote:

Eat it You Nasty Pig. wrote:

EDI is actually a perfect example of how a rational human could be convinced to let an AI 'out of the box.'

Oh, yeah, you're right.

That was kind of a big moment in ME2, and it's like we forgot all about it.

I'm telling you right now, if the Alliance tells me to shackle EDI, I'm going to tell them that they can shove the Reapers right up their assholes and hope they choke.

Yeah, pretty much.

Though I admit to being a robot sympathizer, so my opinion is not unbiased.

Goatmon

Stilts wrote:

Romanian My Escutcheon wrote:

Stilts wrote:

Eat it You Nasty Pig. wrote:

EDI is actually a perfect example of how a rational human could be convinced to let an AI 'out of the box.'

Oh, yeah, you're right.

That was kind of a big moment in ME2, and it's like we forgot all about it.

I'm telling you right now, if the Alliance tells me to shackle EDI, I'm going to tell them that they can shove the Reapers right up their assholes and hope they choke.

Yeah, pretty much.

Though I admit to being a robot sympathizer, so my opinion is not unbiased.

Especially since (ME3 spoiler)

Spoiler:

She gets a robot body in ME3

Dongs Galore

Where does Tali sleep on the Normandy, anyway

Does she just bunk in her envirosuit with the ordinary crewmen?

-Tal

Tali just lays down on the floor down in the engine room