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[Chat]nequa don't live here no mo'

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Posts

  • GrifterGrifter TorontoSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    I miss my dog :(

    But I get to see him and bring him back to Canada with me in five weeks :D

  • GrifterGrifter TorontoSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    Sounds like a good day to pull out the ol' kite board.

  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    Man I wanna do that so badly some day

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  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    squidbunny wrote: »
    Godfather wrote: »
    before it's too late like what happened to graphic novels.

    Spoken like someone who hasn't picked up a comic since Youngblood....
    Godfather wrote: »
    better graphics, (varying) better gameplay, bigger explosions and ruder titties.

    ... or picked up a game they didn't see advertised on Spike. Please would you and ninjai just stop already.

    Hey cool, I don't know what Youngblood is, but thanks for trying. Allan Moore said it best
    These days, the majority of the comic book audience is 40-somethings who are not necessarily interested in comic books as a medium or panel progression or sequential narrative. They are probably interested in Wolverine. There is a large nostalgic component in there and there's nothing wrong with it. But if those people then begin to influence the books themselves or increasingly the movies or the television series then they will want their story to refer to stories that they remember. It becomes very incestuous and over a few decades you get a very limited dwindling gene pool. And you get stories that have become weak through inbreeding.
    — Alan Moore

    There is a lot I love about comics, but the general reception comics get from the casual joe is because of what Moore mentioned, and it drives me up the wall. I'd rather see more original works sell better and define the medium then the same 60-year-old characters with silly nonsensical plotlines.

    Godfather on
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  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    edited April 2012
    What original comics have you read, spread word of, and supported lately? Supporting the arts is like fucking forest fires, I don't remember smokey the bear telling me that pissing and moaning solved problems.

    If you love the medium so much, tell people about the comics you like and find the new hotness and share it with everyone you know. It starts with you. And plus, No one starts hating batman because some dudes who are angry at popular shit tell them its stupid.

    Iruka on
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  • NibCromNibCrom Registered User regular
    Iruka wins.

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  • Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Alan Moore is talking about fans of Marvel and DC comics. There are a lot more American comics than what he's either intentionally not including in his argument, or ignoring/blind to as a Crazy Old Man (many of his works are masterpieces to be sure, but he isn't exactly with it anymore).

    Homestuck routinely gets a million unique visitors a day, whereas a Marvel super event (those are the ones that sell the most issues) sells incredibly well at 100,000 issues. Which is the majority?

    Comics as a medium is fine.

    Toji Suzuhara on
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  • NicNic Registered User
    Succinct and accurate, Toji. You said what I was going to say better and with less words.

  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    I hope there will be a Homestuck Movie one day, and that its 10 hours long.

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  • NicNic Registered User
    Iruka wrote: »
    I hope there will be a Homestuck Movie one day, and that its 10 hours long.

    And a stage adaptation where the plot is decided by crowd suggestions. And is cast by the Whose Line guys.

  • KochikensKochikens Lovely-Cuddle-Blanket-Stephen-Fry-Awesomer Registered User regular
    I actually JUST watched an interview where he mentioned how great what a lot of people are still doing in comics is and how much he still loves them, even if he hates the industry.

  • NicNic Registered User
    Yeah, people get Moore confused more often than not, and I think it has to do with the fact that the more 'extreme' of his opinions are the ones making the headlines. He's a pretty reasonable dude, if a bit of a curmudgeon at times.

  • GrifterGrifter TorontoSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    Hmmm... Most of the people that I've seen at the local comic book stores aren't in their 40's. And most of the people that I've seen at SDCC and FanExpo are a huge cross section of people. While Alan Moore has written some great comics, you have to remember that doesn't make him an expert on all things comics. The man isn't very happy with DC & Marvel in general and I'm pretty sure that he's incredibly pissed with WB for screwing up a couple of his best works when they converted them to film.

    The stuff being done in comics today is pretty great, in my opinion. This is true of the stuff that independents are doing online as well as some of the indie and main stream comics. I mean, 15 years ago we didn't have things like Freak Angels around. I think that's been one of the coolest series in the passed couple of years. Yes, some of the big crossovers can be really annoying but I really enjoyed some of the bigger events like Marvel's Civil War or DC's Sinestro Wars.

    Is there a lot of crap out there? Yeah, but there's been a lot of crap for a long time. This is especially true of when Alan Moore was young. Hell, he was writing for some of those big publishers with characters that'd been around for a long time and he wrote for the Image guys too.

    While it's fine and dandy to sit up on the high horse and look down your nose at the comic industry, I think it's a rather myopic view.

  • m3nacem3nace Registered User regular
    Alan Moore is specifically a critic of the comic industry, industry. He also says
    I don't regret having left the comics industry at all. I don't even know that there's much of a comics industry left. The comics medium is wonderful and will endure forever. Luckily, that's independent of whatever the industry tries to do with it. I'm talking about the American industry here, which I think it will either be gone or unrecognizable within five years.
    So as we said all along, ignore the regurgitated bullshit the industry pumps out and look beyond that.

  • FugitiveFugitive Registered User regular
    Alan Moore is talking about fans of Marvel and DC comics. There are a lot more American comics than what he's either intentionally not including in his argument, or ignoring/blind to as a Crazy Old Man (many of his works are masterpieces to be sure, but he isn't exactly with it anymore).

    Homestuck routinely gets a million unique visitors a day, whereas a Marvel super event (those are the ones that sell the most issues) sells incredibly well at 100,000 issues. Which is the majority?

    Comics as a medium is fine.

    Yeah I don't even consider myself a casual comic reader (outside of webcomics), and its pretty obvious that Moore is referring to what DC and Marvel mostly throw their weight behind, just like how you can make the same argument about what the major film studios choose to back.

    Like, it doesn't even make sense as a statement about the medium as a whole.

  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Grifter wrote: »
    Is there a lot of crap out there? Yeah, but there's been a lot of crap for a long time.
    I think what people like Godfather and I have an issue with is that, as grandiose and as myopic as it may seem, while there are exceptions to the rule, a majority of people who aren't fluent in comics are only presented with the skin deep, half assed, re-hashed, rebooted, bull-shit that sits on the racks at barnes and nobles or heroes and dragons. If there is good stuff out there no one is presenting it, or I've already seen it.

    And I'm not familiar enough to tell the difference. How can you fault anyone for not knowing, and not knowing how to become informed?

    Every time a discussion on comics arises, anyone who doesn't glorify comics is ostracized. Accusations are strewn instead of trying to be educational. (FYI I'm not talking about AOB, MD or Iruka here) Until I read "Understanding comics" I honestly had no fucking idea what I was looking at aside from the same tri-colored onesy spedo'd out formulaic "super-heroes", and after hearing the same story told the same way, only with a different illustrator, I lost interest.

    I can't really be expected to have the inclination to stand there and thumb through any of the thousands upon thousands of issues/series that are out there when 9 times out of 10 it is a waste of time. And coming from grifter, it sounds like I'm not wrong. You have to wade through a lot of bull shit to get to the good stuff.



    edit: In short, things like homestuck, PA, lackadaisy etc... I'm not, noone is, trying to say that this kind of stuff doesn't exist, or that it isn't any good, because they're fantastic... What I am saying however is that I don't know where to find this level of epic awesome all the time, and that most of what is available is not epic awesome.



    speaking of.... there are like 3 series that I can't remember what they're called :C its making me sad right now... i don't have them bookmarked because I formatted my pc

    one was Old City blues... cool... The other one had like mushrooms? They talk and one was always super depressed n shit... i can't remember much more than that but it was awesome.

    ninjai on
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  • EncEnc FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I have never read an American comic book, not even one (correction, I have some Calvin and Hobbes books from way back). I have a small amount of manga, and I read scores of webcomics daily, but the print medium? Never really had a chance to get into it.

    As someone not too interested in over-the-top super hero sort of things, is there a suggested comic to ease into the medium? I'd like to start studying those artists along with my other studies.

    Enc on
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  • KochikensKochikens Lovely-Cuddle-Blanket-Stephen-Fry-Awesomer Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    I have never read an American comic book, not even one (correction, I have some Calvin and Hobbes books from way back). I have a small amount of manga, and I read scores of webcomics daily, but the print medium? Never really had a chance to get into it.

    As someone not too interested in over-the-top super hero sort of things, is there a suggested comic to ease into the medium? I'd like to start studying those artists along with my other studies.

    What sort of webcomics/manga do you like? There are lots of non-super hero american comics we could recommend.

  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    YAY FOUND IT

    edit:
    Enc I'm with you. I really think it is the color limitation of the printed medium that makes me shy away from it. I don't know if it exists to the same extent as back in the early Stan Lee days, but having nothing but primary colors to work with to me just doesn't look very good. I tend to stick to black and white print primarily.

    ninjai on
    Mice scratching at the walls inside of your head.
    This is a warning that my sig was too tall.
    You could have sent me a PM or something.
  • EncEnc FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I'm a fan of character driven dramas along with urban fantasy and high fantasy.

    From Me to You, Natsume Yujinko, The Wallflower, Honey Clover and Mushi-Shi are what my wife and I currently have.

    Webcomic-wise, Gunnerkrigg Court, The Meek (back when it updated), and Para-Ten were my favorites in recent memory.

    Enc on
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    3ds Friend Code: 5043-2266-3066
  • squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    ninjai wrote: »
    I really think it is the color limitation of the printed medium that makes me shy away from it. I don't know if it exists to the same extent as back in the early Stan Lee days, but having nothing but primary colors to work with to me just doesn't look very good. I tend to stick to black and white print primarily.

    This is the kind of thing that makes us come off as discounting your opinions, ninjai. This is a completely obsolete assessment of printed comics and it makes it very evident that you have not picked up many comics in the last 10 years. And to your point about faulting people for not knowing better ... I don't think anyone faults you for that. It's the not knowing but then proceeding to shit all over the medium regardless that we (or I, at any rate) take exception to. If you're legitimately interested in comics; read some comics. If comics don't interest you, then leave it alone and stop pontificating about things you (by your own admission) don't know anything about.

    @Enc: If you're into longform character dramas in webcomic form check out Deliliah Dirk and the Turkish Lt. (though it's kind of a light-hearted adventurey thing it's too good not to recommend and it's done now and you can read it in an hour or less), Toji's comic Alpha Flag, and Warren Ellis' Freakangels (which someone else mentioned & is also done, now.) Oh oh oh, and since you said "fantasy" I can't not mention my for-fun improv comic with Toji in the hopes that he'll feel guilty enough to continue it: Poison Pen Letter.

    I'd recommend you read Sandman but the art has not held up at all and honestly has become sort of a barrier of entry, which is sad because it's a great story. The Flight books are fantastic and a lot of libraries carry them. Related, Kazu Kibuishi's Amulet series is for kids but I like it, anyway, for its art & whimsy. Oh, read We3 if you haven't. Short, classic & wrenching. Jimmy Corrigan, the Smartest Kid on Earth is pretty great if unrelentingly depressing and real. Um, American Virgin is pretty interesting and of a digestible size but might not be everyone's taste. Blankets is also a thing people should read.

    You can tell my comics consumption has drastically slowed. These are all really old. I'd have to think about this awhile to come up with any really interesting recommendations but by then Kochi will have rattled off about 1000.

    Speaking of comics to read and Craig Thompson.... Has anyone read Habibi? I haven't read it and have heard really mixed things; mostly that it's gorgeous but it handles sex retardedly and sort of caricaturizes Islam?

    TODAY IS DOG DAY, BTW.

    squidbunny on
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  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    squidbunny wrote: »

    This is the kind of thing that makes us come off as discounting your opinions, ninjai. This is a completely obsolete assessment of printed comics and it makes it very evident that you have not picked up many comics in the last 10 years. It's the not knowing but then proceeding to shit all over the medium regardless that we (or I, at any rate) take exception to. If you're legitimately interested in comics; read some comics. If comics don't interest you, then leave it alone and stop pontificating about things you (by your own admission) don't know anything about.

    Part 1
    I guess that is fine, but I only know about that limitation from having read understanding/making comics. I didn't know about it beforehand. What I have a problem with is that the shelves at local comic stores (to the layman) look like they are littered with what might as well be the same cover, with the same characters, doing the same shit they've been doing for 40+ years. That's all I really understand...

    So I stay away from them. They aren't doing a very good job at targeting people like me with that kind of marketing.

    Part 2
    I didn't know anything about comics aside from what I read as a kid. I didn't proceed to shit all over the medium from my perspective, I thought I was informed so I thought I had an informed opinion.

    They do interest me, but I still can't find anything past what I already know I like, which isn't much.

    Flight
    Tekkon Kinkreet
    Akira
    Abara
    Calvin+hobbes (and a few others from the funnies)
    and the few webcomics I've listed. (and a few I'm forgetting)
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/ref=wish_list

    You can see some other stuff I'm interested in trying on my wishlist, but the list still isn't very long


    Other than that I really have no idea where to start looking. Every time I go in person to these local stores they get waaaay too nerded out on me and shoo me out for not liking super heroes as a genre.

    ninjai on
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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Fland SudAméricaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Ninjai, look for a writter, not a character, in my case, Warren Ellis is the man, ever since I read City of Silence, I respect the way he presents the plots, and mostly the way he displays his characters. Give it a try.

    Edit: and if you dont like his comics I will personally punch you in both your eyes.

    FANTOMAS on
  • GrifterGrifter TorontoSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    ninjai wrote: »
    Grifter wrote: »
    Is there a lot of crap out there? Yeah, but there's been a lot of crap for a long time.
    I think what people like Godfather and I have an issue with is that, as grandiose and as myopic as it may seem, while there are exceptions to the rule, a majority of people who aren't fluent in comics are only presented with the skin deep, half assed, re-hashed, rebooted, bull-shit that sits on the racks at barnes and nobles or heroes and dragons. If there is good stuff out there no one is presenting it, or I've already seen it.

    And I'm not familiar enough to tell the difference. How can you fault anyone for not knowing, and not knowing how to become informed?

    Every time a discussion on comics arises, anyone who doesn't glorify comics is ostracized. Accusations are strewn instead of trying to be educational. (FYI I'm not talking about AOB, MD or Iruka here) Until I read "Understanding comics" I honestly had no fucking idea what I was looking at aside from the same tri-colored onesy spedo'd out formulaic "super-heroes", and after hearing the same story told the same way, only with a different illustrator, I lost interest.

    I can't really be expected to have the inclination to stand there and thumb through any of the thousands upon thousands of issues/series that are out there when 9 times out of 10 it is a waste of time. And coming from grifter, it sounds like I'm not wrong. You have to wade through a lot of bull shit to get to the good stuff.



    edit: In short, things like homestuck, PA, lackadaisy etc... I'm not, noone is, trying to say that this kind of stuff doesn't exist, or that it isn't any good, because they're fantastic... What I am saying however is that I don't know where to find this level of epic awesome all the time, and that most of what is available is not epic awesome.



    speaking of.... there are like 3 series that I can't remember what they're called :C its making me sad right now... i don't have them bookmarked because I formatted my pc

    one was Old City blues... cool... The other one had like mushrooms? They talk and one was always super depressed n shit... i can't remember much more than that but it was awesome.

    Way to cherry pick a quote out of context from me. While there is a decent amount of crap out there, I believe there is a great deal of awesome stuff too. And I don't think you need to wade in very far to find it. While there is plenty of super hero spandex to go around there is also shitloads of excellent story telling in the realm of comics. This is true for all genres of the medium, if you ask me. If you look at the DC imprint Vertigo, you'll find a whole lot of excellent mature reading. It's also pretty easy to figure out which writers are producing quality stuff. Books like Fables, Unwritten, and American Vampire are great reads with some pretty cool artwork.

    Image comics has a bunch of fun comics like Walking Dead, Prophet, Powers, Morning Glories a whole host of other good stuff. I really don't feel like listing out the shit load of good comics. There are just too many.

    While we're at it, there are a whole lot of actually well done "super hero" comics out there. Things like Kingdom Come are just amazingly well done on both the story and the artwork.

    I also, really don't like your argument of "I've already seen that good stuff. I want more." That really doesn't hold up very well. An amazing film doesn't come out every week that's easy to find. An amazing new album doesn't drop every week and just magically drop into your lap. There is a shit ton of bad music out there. It's never been easier for people to create in all three of the mediums being discussed. Technology has been great for creators. We can publish our own comics, create our own films, record our own tracks. Is everybody going to produce amazing stuff? Oh, hell no. This forum is proof of that everytime somebody wanders in trying to pimp their shitty new web comics. Does that give you the right to shit over the entire medium as a whole? Fuck no.

    I don't know exactly what your problem is but it sounds like you just want things to show up on you computer for you. I don't think you've ever had to go bin diving trying to find things like everyone else that actually enjoys the work that's out there. I've gone through thousands of boxes in used book stores looking for cheap comics that people didn't know were awesome when they took their son's box of old books out to the side of the road. I did the same when I was really into vinyl DJing. The fact of the matter is, with things like Comixology, Netflix, iTunes, YouTube and the internet in general, we have the opportunity to be able to find amazing stuff all the time. If you're unwilling to put the work to find good stuff in any medium then that's your problem. Creators are putting it out there.

  • squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    ninjai wrote: »
    Every time I go in person to these local stores they get waaaay too nerded out on me and shoo me out for not liking super heroes as a genre.

    Well fuck those people, seriously.

    I don't honestly know if it'd be to your taste, ninjai, but as an addendum to my previous recommendations to Enc: it's so obvious I forget to mention it but Hellboy really was pretty great. I can't speak to how it and BPRD are now, though. That whole thing kind of became a franchise, which has the potential for disaster. If Spex were here he'd probably have about 8000 words to say on the subject.

    If you're a big Flight fan you might also like Out of Picture and Liquid City. They're the same kind of idea: art-heavy anthologies with loose themes. I don't think they're quite on par with Flight though; Out of Picture is pretty spare, story-wise, and Liquid City just ... didn't grip me as much.

    Warren Ellis is pretty great, yeah. Even pre-existing superheroes turn to gold in his hands. Nextwave is laugh out loud stuff, all the way, and the art doesn't hurt.

    Transmetropolitan is my fav Ellis thing, but I think it might be because I'm also a big Hunter S. Thompson fan and the caricature succeeds with me even if it is broad and goofy.

    Comics got a lot more approachable when everything started being collected into TPBs, eliminating the need to track down issues of floppies. Of course all the kids read everything on their iThings now.


    squidbunny on
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  • KochikensKochikens Lovely-Cuddle-Blanket-Stephen-Fry-Awesomer Registered User regular
    squidbunny wrote: »
    You can tell my comics consumption has drastically slowed. These are all really old. I'd have to think about this awhile to come up with any really interesting recommendations but by then Kochi will have rattled off about 1000.

    nah I'm totally about to go to sleep and am gonna be sleeping on these recommendations, letting them brew in my brain thinker box

  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Ninjai, look for a writter, not a character, in my case, Warren Ellis is the man, ever since I read City of Silence, I respect the way he presents the plots, and mostly the way he displays his characters. Give it a try.

    Edit: and if you dont like his comics I will personally punch you in both your eyes.

    IDK if it's just me, but I can't get into stories if I can't get into the artwork. It's the same for me with music, I don't really give a shit what the guy is saying if the music isn't there to back it up, and I just don't really get into art like what I see in City of Silence.
    Spoiler:

    Here's some images from things that I like for an example...
    Spoiler:

    ninjai on
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  • EncEnc FloridaRegistered User regular
    squidbunny wrote: »
    A lot of great recommendations

    Thanks! I've heard good things about Sandman (i'm a big fan of Gaiman's work), so I'll probably follow that.

    I've had t Deliliah Dirk bookmarked for months and never got around to reading it.

    I'm gonna do that today, I think.

    Guns make you stupid. Better to fight your wars with duct tape. Duct tape makes you smart.
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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Fland SudAméricaRegistered User regular
    Well, like it was said above, theres AWESOME stuff out there, most likely for everyone. In city of silence, the art fits and meshes PERFECTLY with the setting and the plot, I think the art on Planetary fits pretty well the "heroes-sque" stories told there, etc.

    But its confusing, first you complain about comics being repetitive (while they are not), but now you say you dont care about the text...
    My advise to you is, read Google Images.

  • squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    Does anyone else have an issue with the boards just like, not adding posts from people when you refresh one time ... and then next time a bunch of new, extra posts are all interspersed throughout that it didn't bother to dovetail in last time? o_O

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  • EncEnc FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012

    The SE++ webcomics thread is the place you should go. If something good and new comes out, it usually ends up there.

    Enc on
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  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Grifter wrote: »
    An amazing new album doesn't drop every week and just magically drop into your lap.
    I know where too look for this though. I know how to dig and how to find the ultra independent music that recorded and published the album solo on soundcloud/bandcamp... I have almost 1.5 t worth of music thanks to zune and bandcamp, this is where I spend most of my time "bin diving".

    Idk where to look for good comics/webcomics because there are SO MANY sources for shitty manga ripoffs.

    And honestly "shit over the medium"... where is this coming from? I have chosen my words carfully this time to avoid confrontation.
    squidbunny wrote: »
    ninjai wrote: »
    Every time I go in person to these local stores they get waaaay too nerded out on me and shoo me out for not liking super heroes as a genre.

    If Spex were here he'd probably have about 8000 words to say on the subject.
    Yeah we've been there already, and I'll check out more of the stuff you and grift suggested.


    edit again: IDK if this is what you're talking about Grift but it looks awesome

    ninjai on
    Mice scratching at the walls inside of your head.
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  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    squidbunny wrote: »
    Does anyone else have an issue with the boards just like, not adding posts from people when you refresh one time ... and then next time a bunch of new, extra posts are all interspersed throughout that it didn't bother to dovetail in last time? o_O
    I'm having the same problem

    Also to grift and u, I've added pretty much everything you guys recommended to my wishlist. GOooOoOOod stuff from what I'm seeing on amazon and google.
    1848871-dirk_anger_teevee_nextwave.jpg


    loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    But its confusing, first you complain about comics being repetitive (while they are not), but now you say you dont care about the text...
    My advise to you is, read Google Images.


    While I really do like sparse use of text and allowing the art to tell the story, (calvin and hobbes, blame, some flight stuff) that is not what I said. I said I can't get into the story if I can't get into the art.... Does not translate to "I don't care about the text."...

    ninjai on
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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Fland SudAméricaRegistered User regular
    I know, I was pretty absolute and picky about quoting there, my mistake. I did read the post correctly but for some pirmal urge I was compelled to answer like a smartass.

  • ninjaininjai Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    I know, I was pretty absolute and picky about quoting there, my mistake. I did read the post correctly but for some pirmal urge I was compelled to answer like a smartass.

    is k :D

    Mice scratching at the walls inside of your head.
    This is a warning that my sig was too tall.
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  • F87F87 So Say We All Registered User regular
    Damn tornadoes! Blowin' around all our shit! I'm starting to think I should just leave Oklahoma for safety D :

  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    The SE++ webcomics thread is the place you should go. If something good and new comes out, it usually ends up there.

    Enc you have ruined a life.


  • EncEnc FloridaRegistered User regular
    There's something everywhere, though. Blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, typhoons.

    Pretty much the only safe place is New England, and there you have to deal with people with funny accents.

    Guns make you stupid. Better to fight your wars with duct tape. Duct tape makes you smart.
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  • GrifterGrifter TorontoSuper Moderator, Moderator mod
    ninjai wrote: »
    squidbunny wrote: »

    This is the kind of thing that makes us come off as discounting your opinions, ninjai. This is a completely obsolete assessment of printed comics and it makes it very evident that you have not picked up many comics in the last 10 years. It's the not knowing but then proceeding to shit all over the medium regardless that we (or I, at any rate) take exception to. If you're legitimately interested in comics; read some comics. If comics don't interest you, then leave it alone and stop pontificating about things you (by your own admission) don't know anything about.

    Part 1
    I guess that is fine, but I only know about that limitation from having read understanding/making comics. I didn't know about it beforehand. What I have a problem with is that the shelves at local comic stores (to the layman) look like they are littered with what might as well be the same cover, with the same characters, doing the same shit they've been doing for 40+ years. That's all I really understand...

    So I stay away from them. They aren't doing a very good job at targeting people like me with that kind of marketing.

    Part 2
    I didn't know anything about comics aside from what I read as a kid. I didn't proceed to shit all over the medium from my perspective, I thought I was informed so I thought I had an informed opinion.

    They do interest me, but I still can't find anything past what I already know I like, which isn't much.

    Flight
    Tekkon Kinkreet
    Akira
    Abara
    Calvin+hobbes (and a few others from the funnies)
    and the few webcomics I've listed. (and a few I'm forgetting)
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/ref=wish_list

    You can see some other stuff I'm interested in trying on my wishlist, but the list still isn't very long


    Other than that I really have no idea where to start looking. Every time I go in person to these local stores they get waaaay too nerded out on me and shoo me out for not liking super heroes as a genre.

    I have an issue with the opinion you're expressing here. Scott McCloud is a pretty smart guy but I'm not sure if you're understanding what he's said in those books or if he's making a bad reference since I haven't really read either of those. Not that I don't like him, I just never got around to reading any of his books. Surely, your own eyes can see the quality of some of the printed works out there. I mean, if you're just into web comics and think that they have all the bad ass colours and print comics can only work in primary or whatever then I'm confused. Home printers have been spitting out photo quality prints for a pretty long time now. Surely one could make the next step and understand that a modern press can do the same thing.

    Your comment about book displays at comic stores isn't entirely invalid. However, couldn't one say the same thing about any book store? I mean, how is one to know that one reference book about the French Revolution is any better than another book about the same subject material? How would I know that one vampire novel is better than the other? How do we know that one film about zombies is better than another? Well, the internet has lots of information about it. Today we have places like Amazon and Rotten Tomatoes that do book and film reviews online so that you have an idea of what you're buying. For comics we have places like Comic Book Resources that provide us with reviews and such. There was, up until fairly recently, a little magazine called Wizard that provided good reference on what's out there in the world of comics. They're just online now, I think.

    Like I said, that hot new album that you found on bandcamp or wherever was a conscious choice of you going out there and looking for something. The fact that you dismissed the entire comic medium because you think there's just "too much" out there is plain silly to me. There is Comixology where you can buy digital books online on the same day that they ship in print. There are tons of places online to find suggestions and reviews of comics.

    http://bit.ly/Ij5e0r

    Anyway, I think the point has been made and you've admitted to your own ignorance being the contributing factor to your issues with comic books as a whole. You just don't know what to look for and haven't bothered looking.

This discussion has been closed.