Either way I think that variation is a product of our own personal morality clashing. We each have a limit in our heads about how far you an justify going before you've gone to far. I think its the writers intent that they never cross then line but where the line is is different.
Snyder's line is pretty conservative. He can lie, be a vigilante but hasn't really done anything outrageous.
On the extreme side you have Miller. I truly believe Miller thinks his batman is a good guy. However he kills people, starts a revolution trying to overthrow the government, kidnaps a kid ect.
All super-heroes in comics, excluding the ones with official government backing like Captain America, are technically crossing the line by existing.
Batman's pretty notorious for doing outrageous things even on his best days, though he's still better than anti-heroes like Punisher. This includes Nolan's Batman, he is better at controlling his impulses. Destroying the phone sonar device in TDK was a responsible decision to avoid being reliant on it later on.
Miller's has a few versions. The Year One Batman was fine. The TDR version was a genuine psycho. After that he's basically Marv in a Batman suit.
Whether Batman is fascist or not is actually a nice example of the core difference between the DC and Marvel Universe, in that the the DC Universe is entirely fantastical whereas the Marvel Universe goes for pseudo-realism. If Batman was in the Marvel Universe, then he'd be ethically questionable, either fascist, or mad, or both, because those are the pseudo-realistic interpretations of what he does. In the DC Universe he isn't, because the writers say so. In the DC Universe, someone can be who Batman is and do what Batman does without being mad or a fascist.
Some people say that Batman is a Marvel superhero strapped in the DC Universe, but really that isn't true. By the traits that are unique to DC, Batman fits perfectly into the setting he is from.
Batman's been openly fascist in the DCU. In the years prior to the Infinite Crisis he was slowly turning into Batdick. They retconned his paranoia into being a side effect from Zatanna's mind-wipe.
I think DC's characters are a little more set in stone than Marvel's. The biggest change that has been done to any of the major Justice League players is the whole Batman Inc. deal, which has been some of the best Batman comics in the past decade.
Marvel plays a little more fast and loose with characters. They keep the same basic core values(Spider-Man will always be the quippy nerd, Captain America will always be a moral paragon, etc.) but aren't afraid to shake things up. Spider-Man, the perpetual broke loner, is now a wealthy scientist and a member of both the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. Captain America gave up the mantle and because NotNick Fury for a while. Asgard is now a part of Earth and Odin has left, leaving Thor no longer a prince nor noble in the new Republic of Asgardia.
I don't think either approach is inherently bad or good, but DC is often faced with the problem of their heroes and stories becoming stagnant and boring. The New 52 helped with this in some ways(Action Comics, Swamp Thing and Animal Man in particular) but it didn't go nearly far enough.
Aquaman disputes that. First he was a nice ocean king, then a jerk with a beard and hook hand then a Cthulhu monstrosity while he was replaced by a young clone then he got a magic water hand then he got rebooted into a nice guy whose a joke to everyone in the DCU.
Wonder Woman's had some drastic changes, too. Most of the time it applies to her supporting cast, though.
there were some great titles that came from the reboot though, which i'm grateful for
There were
But I think the dynamism in Marvel's current titles far outweighs those in DCs. Even if you don't consider the quality higher (and overall, I do), then the level of growth and change Marvel has put forward in it's characters is quite impressive, despite stuff like OMD. Even if you look at books like Aquaman where there has been big changed, it doesn't feel like the growth is there so much because it just happened overnight with no real reference to what came before. And with some of the great new books like Captain Atom, they are basically an entire new character,
I think DC's characters are a little more set in stone than Marvel's. The biggest change that has been done to any of the major Justice League players is the whole Batman Inc. deal, which has been some of the best Batman comics in the past decade.
Marvel plays a little more fast and loose with characters. They keep the same basic core values(Spider-Man will always be the quippy nerd, Captain America will always be a moral paragon, etc.) but aren't afraid to shake things up. Spider-Man, the perpetual broke loner, is now a wealthy scientist and a member of both the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. Captain America gave up the mantle and because NotNick Fury for a while. Asgard is now a part of Earth and Odin has left, leaving Thor no longer a prince nor noble in the new Republic of Asgardia.
I don't think either approach is inherently bad or good, but DC is often faced with the problem of their heroes and stories becoming stagnant and boring. The New 52 helped with this in some ways(Action Comics, Swamp Thing and Animal Man in particular) but it didn't go nearly far enough.
Aquaman disputes that. First he was a nice ocean king, then a jerk with a beard and hook hand then a Cthulhu monstrosity while he was replaced by a young clone then he got a magic water hand then he got rebooted into a nice guy whose a joke to everyone in the DCU.
Wonder Woman's had some drastic changes, too. Most of the time it applies to her supporting cast, though.
Aquaman isn't really a major character
he is big in-universe, sure, but he has never been a huge seller and most public perception of him is that of a walking joke.
and this comes from someone who fucking loves Aquaman
I think DC's characters are a little more set in stone than Marvel's. The biggest change that has been done to any of the major Justice League players is the whole Batman Inc. deal, which has been some of the best Batman comics in the past decade.
Marvel plays a little more fast and loose with characters. They keep the same basic core values(Spider-Man will always be the quippy nerd, Captain America will always be a moral paragon, etc.) but aren't afraid to shake things up. Spider-Man, the perpetual broke loner, is now a wealthy scientist and a member of both the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. Captain America gave up the mantle and because NotNick Fury for a while. Asgard is now a part of Earth and Odin has left, leaving Thor no longer a prince nor noble in the new Republic of Asgardia.
I don't think either approach is inherently bad or good, but DC is often faced with the problem of their heroes and stories becoming stagnant and boring. The New 52 helped with this in some ways(Action Comics, Swamp Thing and Animal Man in particular) but it didn't go nearly far enough.
The New 52 feels more desperate to me. It feels like a corporate mandate, like sales were in a slump and they were all "FUCK IT MAKE EVERYTHING #1 AGAIN"
Whereas Marvel's stuff feels more like it's changing as a result of the authors, and not as a result of a whole bunch of suits getting together and going "we need to change shit to boost sales"
Some of it is, for sure. Blue Beetle, Teen Titans, Static Shock and others were all terrible and felt like HEY LOOK HOW COOL WE ARE was the driving force
but then you have books like Action Comics or Swamp Thing or Demon Knights where the author may have been told "Hey make new shit for the DCnU" but they clearly are telling their own story that they wanted to get onto paper.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
The latest issue of Teen Titans was so bad
Just so horribly overwritten
I'm a few behind on Superboy, but I've been relatively digging Red Hood & The Outsiders. I don't like all this magical stuff for Jason Todd, though. He was the most "grounded" member of the Bat family
I think DC's characters are a little more set in stone than Marvel's. The biggest change that has been done to any of the major Justice League players is the whole Batman Inc. deal, which has been some of the best Batman comics in the past decade.
Marvel plays a little more fast and loose with characters. They keep the same basic core values(Spider-Man will always be the quippy nerd, Captain America will always be a moral paragon, etc.) but aren't afraid to shake things up. Spider-Man, the perpetual broke loner, is now a wealthy scientist and a member of both the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. Captain America gave up the mantle and because NotNick Fury for a while. Asgard is now a part of Earth and Odin has left, leaving Thor no longer a prince nor noble in the new Republic of Asgardia.
I don't think either approach is inherently bad or good, but DC is often faced with the problem of their heroes and stories becoming stagnant and boring. The New 52 helped with this in some ways(Action Comics, Swamp Thing and Animal Man in particular) but it didn't go nearly far enough.
Aquaman disputes that. First he was a nice ocean king, then a jerk with a beard and hook hand then a Cthulhu monstrosity while he was replaced by a young clone then he got a magic water hand then he got rebooted into a nice guy whose a joke to everyone in the DCU.
Wonder Woman's had some drastic changes, too. Most of the time it applies to her supporting cast, though.
Aquaman isn't really a major character
he is big in-universe, sure, but he has never been a huge seller and most public perception of him is that of a walking joke.
and this comes from someone who fucking loves Aquaman
I'm interested to see where Johns takes the whole Aquaman is a joke thing
I mean right now it's okay as a character element. And there's some cool characterisation that comes out of it, Mera gets annoyed that people don't see Aquaman as the hero she knows he is, and so she gets more personality out of that, and Arthur is more of a stoic, take it without complaint and keep on fighting the good fight kind of guy, which we can see from that while thing as well.
But I would like to see it develop, maybe Aquaman gets a really big win over a properly scary villain and it's live on tv etc, so people start taking him more seriously and treating him with a bit more respect. That would be cool to see progress in the book.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited January 2012
Pre-DCnU I would've had Jason take over Deathstroke's role as the Teen Titan's enemy
it would make more sense for Jason to put together "anti" Titans
but I wouldn't have had him fight them. Just round up ex-Titans and do missions with them and probably "cross the line"
Personally I kind of hate Deathstroke being the Titan's arch nemesis. The dude is a master assassin what the hell is he doing fighting a bunch of teenagers?
Now, him being Nightwing's nemesis? That I can get behind.
I think DC's characters are a little more set in stone than Marvel's. The biggest change that has been done to any of the major Justice League players is the whole Batman Inc. deal, which has been some of the best Batman comics in the past decade.
Marvel plays a little more fast and loose with characters. They keep the same basic core values(Spider-Man will always be the quippy nerd, Captain America will always be a moral paragon, etc.) but aren't afraid to shake things up. Spider-Man, the perpetual broke loner, is now a wealthy scientist and a member of both the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. Captain America gave up the mantle and because NotNick Fury for a while. Asgard is now a part of Earth and Odin has left, leaving Thor no longer a prince nor noble in the new Republic of Asgardia.
I don't think either approach is inherently bad or good, but DC is often faced with the problem of their heroes and stories becoming stagnant and boring. The New 52 helped with this in some ways(Action Comics, Swamp Thing and Animal Man in particular) but it didn't go nearly far enough.
Aquaman disputes that. First he was a nice ocean king, then a jerk with a beard and hook hand then a Cthulhu monstrosity while he was replaced by a young clone then he got a magic water hand then he got rebooted into a nice guy whose a joke to everyone in the DCU.
Wonder Woman's had some drastic changes, too. Most of the time it applies to her supporting cast, though.
Aquaman isn't really a major character
he is big in-universe, sure, but he has never been a huge seller and most public perception of him is that of a walking joke.
and this comes from someone who fucking loves Aquaman
I'm interested to see where Johns takes the whole Aquaman is a joke thing
I mean right now it's okay as a character element. And there's some cool characterisation that comes out of it, Mera gets annoyed that people don't see Aquaman as the hero she knows he is, and so she gets more personality out of that, and Arthur is more of a stoic, take it without complaint and keep on fighting the good fight kind of guy, which we can see from that while thing as well.
But I would like to see it develop, maybe Aquaman gets a really big win over a properly scary villain and it's live on tv etc, so people start taking him more seriously and treating him with a bit more respect. That would be cool to see progress in the book.
I hope this happens too. I think the "Aquaman is a punchline" thing kind of needed to happen and was handled pretty well, but it better not stick around for another 5 or 6 issues.
Why can't DC portray Aquaman in their comics like in the Brave and the Bold cartoon?
I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
Why can't DC portray Aquaman in their comics like in the Brave and the Bold cartoon?
Because that portrayal works well in a comedic animated series that he is an ocassional guest star in whereas it would get really old really quick and have zero depth in an Aquaman ongoing
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
I'm a few behind on Superboy, but I've been relatively digging Red Hood & The Outsiders. I don't like all this magical stuff for Jason Todd, though. He was the most "grounded" member of the Bat family
I thought Tim was the normal one.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
Being a king of the seas overshadows his normal life on land. Plus, fighting super-villains every other week. That's got to fracture the psych a bit.
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
Pretty much. Namor is enough of a aqua-asshole for all of comics.
Plus he is totally unlikable as an arrogant angry king. He should be noble, but that doesn't mean he should be a dick.
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
Being a king of the seas overshadows his normal life on land. Plus, fighting super-villains every other week. That's got to fracture the psych a bit.
No more so than every other superhero who lives a double life
Why can't DC portray Aquaman in their comics like in the Brave and the Bold cartoon?
Because that portrayal works well in a comedic animated series that he is an ocassional guest star in whereas it would get really old really quick and have zero depth in an Aquaman ongoing
Yeah I mean that portrayal is fun, but only in small doses, or it just gets silly.
Personally I like the Aquaman in the current book. He's tired of all the shit that comes with Atlantis and really just wants to be a superhero, doing what his old man did by protecting the shore, while living a quiet life at home with Mera and the dog. He's still definitely got that stoic nobility and regal air, but he's not a dick at all, in actual fact he's a pretty nice, if quiet, guy.
If they made Aquaman Namor that would suck, because he isn't Namor, Namor is Namor. If Aquaman only did stuff under the sea then nobody would buy it because comic fans traditionally don't give much of a shit about Atlantis, and if they make him a grinning joke machine then he would get massively annoying really quickly. Current Aquaman is best and he should stay like that.
Solar on
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
Pretty much. Namor is enough of a aqua-asshole for all of comics.
Plus he is totally unlikable as an arrogant angry king. He should be noble, but that doesn't mean he should be a dick.
That's been a part of Namor since the sixties, though! Namor should never not be a prick, so that when he isn't a prick, it has more meaning
Whenever Namor shows up to help the Avengers or whatever, you're all like hell yeah
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
I can understand that interpretation and portrayal of the character.
I just prefer this one:
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Namor has been an asshole since his creation as Marvel's first hero
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
Being a king of the seas overshadows his normal life on land. Plus, fighting super-villains every other week. That's got to fracture the psych a bit.
No more so than every other superhero who lives a double life
Their double lives aren't all equal. Wonder Woman and Batman are similar in the DCU, but even they don't have the same stress level Arthur would deal with being Atlantis king. Batman hardly has a life to speak of as Bruce Wayne, and WW spends half the time with no secret identity at all. In comics Black Panther would have the most in common, though he has no secret identity in his civilian guise.
Namor should definitely be a prick to an extent (with some exceptions. He should always be Steve Rogers' bro because Invaders 4 lyfe). But he should not be a prick to the extent that he is unlike able, or all the time. He should be able to back up all the shit talk he ever makes, but not say that he can do something really stupid and then fail to do it, because he's proud, not a moron. And he should hit on beautiful women while disparaging their partners, but never really go all out and seduce them behind their backs. If Namor wants your lady, he will tell her so while you are right there, because then at least you get to fight for her, and he considers that just and fair.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
I'm a few behind on Superboy, but I've been relatively digging Red Hood & The Outsiders. I don't like all this magical stuff for Jason Todd, though. He was the most "grounded" member of the Bat family
I thought Tim was the normal one.
Tim has always associated with metas and has traveled to Apokolips and stuff.
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
I can understand that interpretation and portrayal of the character.
I just prefer this one:
See I think that Aquaman is pretty boring
Plus that is a silly thing to say. Yeah there are loads of heroes on the surface, but nearly all of the villains hang out there as well. The only villains that don't are Aquaman villains, of which there are about two.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
I can understand that interpretation and portrayal of the character.
I just prefer this one:
same
and when does decide to help out the JL he does not fuck around
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
I can understand that interpretation and portrayal of the character.
I just prefer this one:
See I think that Aquaman is pretty boring
Plus that is a silly thing to say. Yeah there are loads of heroes on the surface, but nearly all of the villains hang out there as well. The only villains that don't are Aquaman villains, of which there are about two.
there are so many things wrong here
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
I don't like Aquaman being king of the ocean
He should be king of Atlantis, but there should be other underwater cities, too
Plus that is a silly thing to say. Yeah there are loads of heroes on the surface, but nearly all of the villains hang out there as well. The only villains that don't are Aquaman villains, of which there are about two.
A Star Conquerer appeared in the ocean in Morrison's JLA. Aquaman was lucky to survive that encounter.
The seas can be messed up from the land villian's plans, too. For the world destroyers and cosmics, anyway.
Harry Dresden on
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
I can understand that interpretation and portrayal of the character.
Plus that is a silly thing to say. Yeah there are loads of heroes on the surface, but nearly all of the villains hang out there as well. The only villains that don't are Aquaman villains, of which there are about two.
This type of portrayal only really works with Aquaman being a background character. For a primary story focused on him I'll concede that it would be a terrible interpretation of the character to use.
But every once in a while when a huge event happens and Aquaman shows up to do his thing, I am all about that.
I personally like Aquaman as a regal king who doesn't give a fuck about the surface world because he is so over-worked handling the other 70% of the planet. That type of portrayal is basically a copy of Namor but I enjoy the nobility of it. Plus when he shows up with a kraken and begins smashing skulls it is an awesome event.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
I can understand that interpretation and portrayal of the character.
I just prefer this one:
See I think that Aquaman is pretty boring
Plus that is a silly thing to say. Yeah there are loads of heroes on the surface, but nearly all of the villains hang out there as well. The only villains that don't are Aquaman villains, of which there are about two.
there are so many things wrong here
Like what? Okay, you can argue that Aquaman fights against baddies that we never see because nobody cares about Atlantis, but in that case nobody cares about Atlantis so it's not even that impressive anyway. If you want to use him regularly, showing Aquaman like this does't work, because you have to constantly give him reasons as to why he is superheroing and not busy with the daily business of running a giant global kingdom.
Also it just smacks of posturing to me, like in JLA when Aquaman said to Wonder Woman "I protect the sea!" and she responds with "don't point that hook at me. And don't be silly either. "I protect the sea," what a ridiculous thing to say." These are not characters who should play misery poker with each other, they all have big burdens to bear, and Aquaman getting all indignant about it doesn't make him special.
Like what? Okay, you can argue that Aquaman fights against baddies that we never see because nobody cares about Atlantis, but in that case nobody cares about Atlantis so it's not even that impressive anyway. If you want to use him regularly, showing Aquaman like this does't work, because you have to constantly give him reasons as to why he is superheroing and not busy with the daily business of running a giant global kingdom.
Making Atlantis an interesting place can be done. The Young Justice Atlantis looked fascinating.
That said, to make him a super-hero there are ways to do this. Give him a specific mission or exiled temporarily from his country, like Priest's Black Panther or write being a super-hero is more a hobby he does on the side not 24/7. Easily done with cameos in other comics.
Also it just smacks of posturing to me, like in JLA when Aquaman said to Wonder Woman "I protect the sea!" and she responds with "don't point that hook at me. And don't be silly either. "I protect the sea," what a ridiculous thing to say." These are not characters who should play misery poker with each other, they all have big burdens to bear, and Aquaman getting all indignant about it doesn't make him special.
That exchange was meant to be a meta-joke. Super-heroes say silly things in comics all the time.
Plus whenever Aquaman is like I AM THE KING OF ALL OCEANS I AM SO BUSY YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW it loses a lot of emphasis when you realize that the oceans are pretty fucking empty
I mean the only major city we ever see is Atlantis and everywhere else are little outposts or towns
I would be willing to guess that as many people live in Metropolis or Gotham as live in Atlantis.
So unless Arthur has to deal with the rampant teen hooligan shark gangs in the Barrier Reef, his job isn't significantly more difficult than most superheroes. Especially Superman who watches over pretty much the entire world.
Posts
I love him as a crummy criminal who is easily taken down.
All super-heroes in comics, excluding the ones with official government backing like Captain America, are technically crossing the line by existing.
Batman's pretty notorious for doing outrageous things even on his best days, though he's still better than anti-heroes like Punisher. This includes Nolan's Batman, he is better at controlling his impulses. Destroying the phone sonar device in TDK was a responsible decision to avoid being reliant on it later on.
Miller's has a few versions. The Year One Batman was fine. The TDR version was a genuine psycho. After that he's basically Marv in a Batman suit.
Batman's been openly fascist in the DCU. In the years prior to the Infinite Crisis he was slowly turning into Batdick. They retconned his paranoia into being a side effect from Zatanna's mind-wipe.
Aquaman disputes that. First he was a nice ocean king, then a jerk with a beard and hook hand then a Cthulhu monstrosity while he was replaced by a young clone then he got a magic water hand then he got rebooted into a nice guy whose a joke to everyone in the DCU.
Wonder Woman's had some drastic changes, too. Most of the time it applies to her supporting cast, though.
There were
But I think the dynamism in Marvel's current titles far outweighs those in DCs. Even if you don't consider the quality higher (and overall, I do), then the level of growth and change Marvel has put forward in it's characters is quite impressive, despite stuff like OMD. Even if you look at books like Aquaman where there has been big changed, it doesn't feel like the growth is there so much because it just happened overnight with no real reference to what came before. And with some of the great new books like Captain Atom, they are basically an entire new character,
he is big in-universe, sure, but he has never been a huge seller and most public perception of him is that of a walking joke.
and this comes from someone who fucking loves Aquaman
but then you have books like Action Comics or Swamp Thing or Demon Knights where the author may have been told "Hey make new shit for the DCnU" but they clearly are telling their own story that they wanted to get onto paper.
Just so horribly overwritten
I'm a few behind on Superboy, but I've been relatively digging Red Hood & The Outsiders. I don't like all this magical stuff for Jason Todd, though. He was the most "grounded" member of the Bat family
The dude is an ex-Robin with a chip on his shoulder and two pistols. That's all I need.
I'm interested to see where Johns takes the whole Aquaman is a joke thing
I mean right now it's okay as a character element. And there's some cool characterisation that comes out of it, Mera gets annoyed that people don't see Aquaman as the hero she knows he is, and so she gets more personality out of that, and Arthur is more of a stoic, take it without complaint and keep on fighting the good fight kind of guy, which we can see from that while thing as well.
But I would like to see it develop, maybe Aquaman gets a really big win over a properly scary villain and it's live on tv etc, so people start taking him more seriously and treating him with a bit more respect. That would be cool to see progress in the book.
it would make more sense for Jason to put together "anti" Titans
but I wouldn't have had him fight them. Just round up ex-Titans and do missions with them and probably "cross the line"
Personally I kind of hate Deathstroke being the Titan's arch nemesis. The dude is a master assassin what the hell is he doing fighting a bunch of teenagers?
Now, him being Nightwing's nemesis? That I can get behind.
True. I was only countering the argument that DC characters don't get altered like Marvel's do.
:^:
I thought Tim was the normal one.
i don't like this at all
he was the son of a human and an atlantean, and as far as i remember he was raised on land
he'd have love in his heart for both
Being a king of the seas overshadows his normal life on land. Plus, fighting super-villains every other week. That's got to fracture the psych a bit.
Plus he is totally unlikable as an arrogant angry king. He should be noble, but that doesn't mean he should be a dick.
Yeah I mean that portrayal is fun, but only in small doses, or it just gets silly.
Personally I like the Aquaman in the current book. He's tired of all the shit that comes with Atlantis and really just wants to be a superhero, doing what his old man did by protecting the shore, while living a quiet life at home with Mera and the dog. He's still definitely got that stoic nobility and regal air, but he's not a dick at all, in actual fact he's a pretty nice, if quiet, guy.
If they made Aquaman Namor that would suck, because he isn't Namor, Namor is Namor. If Aquaman only did stuff under the sea then nobody would buy it because comic fans traditionally don't give much of a shit about Atlantis, and if they make him a grinning joke machine then he would get massively annoying really quickly. Current Aquaman is best and he should stay like that.
That's been a part of Namor since the sixties, though! Namor should never not be a prick, so that when he isn't a prick, it has more meaning
Whenever Namor shows up to help the Avengers or whatever, you're all like hell yeah
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I can understand that interpretation and portrayal of the character.
I just prefer this one:
Their double lives aren't all equal. Wonder Woman and Batman are similar in the DCU, but even they don't have the same stress level Arthur would deal with being Atlantis king. Batman hardly has a life to speak of as Bruce Wayne, and WW spends half the time with no secret identity at all. In comics Black Panther would have the most in common, though he has no secret identity in his civilian guise.
Tim has always associated with metas and has traveled to Apokolips and stuff.
Jason was always just street stuff
Marvel already did that with Hercules series.
See I think that Aquaman is pretty boring
Plus that is a silly thing to say. Yeah there are loads of heroes on the surface, but nearly all of the villains hang out there as well. The only villains that don't are Aquaman villains, of which there are about two.
same
and when does decide to help out the JL he does not fuck around
there are so many things wrong here
He should be king of Atlantis, but there should be other underwater cities, too
A Star Conquerer appeared in the ocean in Morrison's JLA. Aquaman was lucky to survive that encounter.
The seas can be messed up from the land villian's plans, too. For the world destroyers and cosmics, anyway.
This type of portrayal only really works with Aquaman being a background character. For a primary story focused on him I'll concede that it would be a terrible interpretation of the character to use.
But every once in a while when a huge event happens and Aquaman shows up to do his thing, I am all about that.
Like what? Okay, you can argue that Aquaman fights against baddies that we never see because nobody cares about Atlantis, but in that case nobody cares about Atlantis so it's not even that impressive anyway. If you want to use him regularly, showing Aquaman like this does't work, because you have to constantly give him reasons as to why he is superheroing and not busy with the daily business of running a giant global kingdom.
Also it just smacks of posturing to me, like in JLA when Aquaman said to Wonder Woman "I protect the sea!" and she responds with "don't point that hook at me. And don't be silly either. "I protect the sea," what a ridiculous thing to say." These are not characters who should play misery poker with each other, they all have big burdens to bear, and Aquaman getting all indignant about it doesn't make him special.
Making Atlantis an interesting place can be done. The Young Justice Atlantis looked fascinating.
That said, to make him a super-hero there are ways to do this. Give him a specific mission or exiled temporarily from his country, like Priest's Black Panther or write being a super-hero is more a hobby he does on the side not 24/7. Easily done with cameos in other comics.
That exchange was meant to be a meta-joke. Super-heroes say silly things in comics all the time.
I mean the only major city we ever see is Atlantis and everywhere else are little outposts or towns
I would be willing to guess that as many people live in Metropolis or Gotham as live in Atlantis.
So unless Arthur has to deal with the rampant teen hooligan shark gangs in the Barrier Reef, his job isn't significantly more difficult than most superheroes. Especially Superman who watches over pretty much the entire world.