Ya know I have a friends who loves to give me crap cause I'm such a fanboy when it comes to GW2. Says that there is no way that it can possibly live up to all the hype I'm giving it. And to be honest I sometimes wonder if he may be somewhat closer to right than wrong. Then I come by and read these threads and my faith in the game is renewed. Even if it's only half as good as these threads lead me to believe it will be then I will be one happy camper.
TheDrome
I had a friend like that as well. Giant skeptic.
But the more he saw, the farther he fell. Now, he is like us. He is one of us.
Ya know I have a friends who loves to give me crap cause I'm such a fanboy when it comes to GW2. Says that there is no way that it can possibly live up to all the hype I'm giving it. And to be honest I sometimes wonder if he may be somewhat closer to right than wrong. Then I come by and read these threads and my faith in the game is renewed. Even if it's only half as good as these threads lead me to believe it will be then I will be one happy camper.
What I'm most interested by is how ANet are handling the hype. My experience of the hype for TOR was that it was a combination of nostalgia for the Star Wars brand and it being developed by BioWare, neither of which really told me anything about how the game would be like to play.
In contrast, I know an awful lot about what GW2 will probably be like to play, and also that the developers are really concentrating on making the game fun to play first and then building an interesting experience around that core.
So the hype for TOR will wear off fairly sharply when people stop pretending to be Jedi and realise that it's not all that different from WoW. I think the focus of making GW2 a fun game to play in its own right will blunt the impact of the end of its initial hype phase.
I don't think it's fair to write off SWTOR completely as being "bland", especially when a lot of the mechanics that make it not a WoW clone are in GW2 and are going to push what we want out of MMOs. The "MMO Successor" race has been a series of progressions that will eventually lead to the next big thing. SW:TOR is going to push MMOs devs into making better stories and more varied worlds, with player characters being able to do more than simply grunt or tell a few off-color jokes and NPCs being more than the same person (voice and look) over and over again. Similarly, WAR pushed the envelope with area quests and open world PVP, bringing a new perspective to how you handle "Go there and do this" when there are 20 people being told to do that at the same time. Rift took the idea of area quests that WAR brought to the table, and pushed it even further, making random events that could draw in an entire population of players to work together. ANet has directly pointed to CoH as the originator of their "Sidekick" system that allows better interactions between players of drastically different levels.
You can't write off any of these MMOs, they all bring something to the dev community that makes the MMO intrinsically better despite the flaws.
I don't think it's fair to write off SWTOR completely as being "bland", especially when a lot of the mechanics that make it not a WoW clone are in GW2 and are going to push what we want out of MMOs.
I don't think calling TOR bland is the same as writing it off. I mean, I am enjoying it, but "bland" is a pretty relevant criticism. Blandness of a game doesn't discount all of its successes, of which TOR has many I will agree.
I don't think it's fair to write off SWTOR completely as being "bland", especially when a lot of the mechanics that make it not a WoW clone are in GW2 and are going to push what we want out of MMOs.
I don't think calling TOR bland is the same as writing it off. I mean, I am enjoying it, but "bland" is a pretty relevant criticism. Blandness of a game doesn't discount all of its successes, of which TOR has many I will agree.
I found it to be bland, even with the supposed great Story telling, which I didn't find great. The Voice Over to me is a gimmick more than a great innovation, due to fact that one point, you are hitting the space bar going, Yeah yeah yeah. Be this as you level to 50 or more so for me, when I created a new character and started hitting the same area quests that I had already done with previous characters.
What I'm most interested by is how ANet are handling the hype. My experience of the hype for TOR was that it was a combination of nostalgia for the Star Wars brand and it being developed by BioWare, neither of which really told me anything about how the game would be like to play.
In contrast, I know an awful lot about what GW2 will probably be like to play, and also that the developers are really concentrating on making the game fun to play first and then building an interesting experience around that core.
So the hype for TOR will wear off fairly sharply when people stop pretending to be Jedi and realise that it's not all that different from WoW. I think the focus of making GW2 a fun game to play in its own right will blunt the impact of the end of its initial hype phase.
I don't think it's fair to write off SWTOR completely as being "bland", especially when a lot of the mechanics that make it not a WoW clone are in GW2 and are going to push what we want out of MMOs. The "MMO Successor" race has been a series of progressions that will eventually lead to the next big thing. SW:TOR is going to push MMOs devs into making better stories and more varied worlds, with player characters being able to do more than simply grunt or tell a few off-color jokes and NPCs being more than the same person (voice and look) over and over again. Similarly, WAR pushed the envelope with area quests and open world PVP, bringing a new perspective to how you handle "Go there and do this" when there are 20 people being told to do that at the same time. Rift took the idea of area quests that WAR brought to the table, and pushed it even further, making random events that could draw in an entire population of players to work together. ANet has directly pointed to CoH as the originator of their "Sidekick" system that allows better interactions between players of drastically different levels.
You can't write off any of these MMOs, they all bring something to the dev community that makes the MMO intrinsically better despite the flaws.
Full disclosure: GW2 is the first MMO to which I've ever paid much attention. I don't think TOR is a copy of WoW at all, only that the marketing for it which filtered down to me largely consisted of pushing the Star Wars and BioWare brands without really telling me anything about the game.
I recognise the pedigree of a lot of the ideas put into GW2, but ANet's handling of the hype for it has mostly been to show off how fun the game will be to play instead of relying so much on their brand.
I'd never in a million years call CoH a WoW clone.
Considering it came out BEFORE WoW >.o.
Wow was the first multiplayer game except goldeneye
SHUT YOUR LYING MOUTH
it was perfect dark
Me and my friends played so much Perfect Dark. So much. We were late back to school many times from lunch due to "just finish this match". Slo-mo, pistols only on Temple with all dark sims was great fun. Oh, and Facility, slo-mo, prox-mines, n-bombs, and shotguns, with all dark sims.
Bar brawls are going to be awesome. I'm really glad that they introduced activities and the like for you to do if/when you get bored of combat and exploring.
Here's my take...WoW for a lot of people, myself included was like going to Disney World as a six year old for the first time...it was magical and amazing. You were too young to see the people behind the costumes, realize the roller coasters were actually pretty slow or that all that candy and food was ridiculously expensive. It was the happiest place on earth.
ToR (or other "next gen" MMO), to me, is like going back to Disney World now as a 30-something adult and having all of the glitz and polish there, with none of the magic.
But anyway, I'm sure we all don't want this to devolve into a thread bashing not-GW2 for being awful...and GW2 might not be the end-all be-all...but when I watch some of those videos, my pant-splitting wang tells me otherwise.
Bar brawls are going to be awesome. I'm really glad that they introduced activities and the like for you to do if/when you get bored of combat and exploring.
I think one of the poster-children for Age of Conan disappointments was that they never put out drunken bar brawling. Just one more item in the massive list of things they promised and never delivered.
It's a silly fluff feature, but silly fluff features are what you need for when the players aren't out SAVING DA WORLD from the big bad(s).
steejee on
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
Seconded for the not not-GW2-bashing! I was talking only from my own experience, and I'm sure other MMOs are fun to play for the most part. It's just that it took GW2 and my nodding along to the Manifesto video to get me engaged with a style of gameplay I had previously associated with taking on a second job. This is a carrot-free zone, I think.
Yeah, it's not that carrots are gone, it's just that there are carrots everywhere, every way you look. Pick up a carrot with a friend? It turns into two carrots, and then, as you eat them, you realize that the entire world around you has become nothing but fractally splintering carrots, filling every direction, Euclidean and non, with ribbed orange madness.
I would be... okay with carrots if they didn't end up like other MMOs where it was not only the main gimmick, it was ultimately required. I loved how the original was designed where there was a peak for an armor's effectiveness, and variances were more cosmetic than anything else. That way, you aren't forced to one area because you didn't spend X amount of hours getting better gear to be able to progress to the next area, you can just go if you wished.
Transmutation stones help, but all I really want is the assurance that they won't go completely overboard with how gear is handled.
Other than what stats are on an item, the amount is all the same for whatever 'tiered level thingamajigger' an item is in. At max level you'll snag a piece of equipment more for that it looks really cool, rather than it being better. And with Transmutation stones, which hopefully are available in-game via karma, you can keep a look you like. Or what I like to do, mix and match to make something unique.
And on top of all that you can color things, most items seeming to be 1-2 different color types available. I just hope they still let you color weapons, and therefore color shields.
Ya know I have a friends who loves to give me crap cause I'm such a fanboy when it comes to GW2. Says that there is no way that it can possibly live up to all the hype I'm giving it. And to be honest I sometimes wonder if he may be somewhat closer to right than wrong. Then I come by and read these threads and my faith in the game is renewed. Even if it's only half as good as these threads lead me to believe it will be then I will be one happy camper.
The thing that makes me excited about all the GW2 promotion that's gone on is absolutely none of it is CGI cutscenes not produced by the company making it. I mean, that's how people announce video games these days, is some stylish opening movie at E3, where they show the character doing things that at best you will be able to do a fascimile of with your controller. But with say the Gamescom trailer, that's all happening. The undead dragon is leaping out exactly the way he does in-game. The rocket jumps and lich transformations are all ripped straight from the game. You might not have the dramatic camera angle or the music scoring it, but everything that you have seen promotionally is literally in the game. You are watching the game, and in watching the game you want to play the game.
That's pretty fucking cool.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
What I'm most interested by is how ANet are handling the hype. My experience of the hype for TOR was that it was a combination of nostalgia for the Star Wars brand and it being developed by BioWare, neither of which really told me anything about how the game would be like to play.
In contrast, I know an awful lot about what GW2 will probably be like to play, and also that the developers are really concentrating on making the game fun to play first and then building an interesting experience around that core.
So the hype for TOR will wear off fairly sharply when people stop pretending to be Jedi and realise that it's not all that different from WoW. I think the focus of making GW2 a fun game to play in its own right will blunt the impact of the end of its initial hype phase.
I don't think it's fair to write off SWTOR completely as being "bland", especially when a lot of the mechanics that make it not a WoW clone are in GW2 and are going to push what we want out of MMOs. The "MMO Successor" race has been a series of progressions that will eventually lead to the next big thing. SW:TOR is going to push MMOs devs into making better stories and more varied worlds, with player characters being able to do more than simply grunt or tell a few off-color jokes and NPCs being more than the same person (voice and look) over and over again. Similarly, WAR pushed the envelope with area quests and open world PVP, bringing a new perspective to how you handle "Go there and do this" when there are 20 people being told to do that at the same time. Rift took the idea of area quests that WAR brought to the table, and pushed it even further, making random events that could draw in an entire population of players to work together. ANet has directly pointed to CoH as the originator of their "Sidekick" system that allows better interactions between players of drastically different levels.
You can't write off any of these MMOs, they all bring something to the dev community that makes the MMO intrinsically better despite the flaws.
This is why I always buy MMOs that try something new or different. The game may turn out pretty "meh", but I like to pretend my purchases help encourage other Devs to stop for a minute and think, "Maybe we should try something new."
Hell, the entire success of WoW is based on the principle of taking everything that was good from past MMOs and removing what wasn't. I'm not even sure of anything in WoW at release that was new to MMOs (I'm willing to bet most of the stuff added after release wasn't new either).
I'm not knocking Blizzard for that practice, it works, but now I want to see another game come along and do what WoW did to MMOs seven or so years ago and take all the new and interesting features from MMOs of the past several years, cut the crap we don't like, and sell it to me.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The questing system and the focus on it was fairly new. Also, afaik, somewhat unplanned for. They hadn't intended to do 1-60 quest content but the testers and such loved it so much they felt it had to be done.
The biggest thing WoW did new and keeps improving on was the idea that MMOs didn't have to be a huge grind or punishing or ultra-realistic. They sacrificed realism for gameplay.
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
The questing system and the focus on it was fairly new. Also, afaik, somewhat unplanned for. They hadn't intended to do 1-60 quest content but the testers and such loved it so much they felt it had to be done.
The biggest thing WoW did new and keeps improving on was the idea that MMOs didn't have to be a huge grind or punishing or ultra-realistic. They sacrificed realism for gameplay.
And it worked for a long time and still does to an extent today.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited January 2012
Some of the Devs at Blizzard have said in an interview that all they really did was take what was fun, fix what was broken, and throw away what sucked from past MMOs. And it did work! WoW was amazing fun, but now we've been playing WoW in one form or another for nigh on eight years. I think it is time for some fresh blood.
And I agree with Dedwrekka that we are seeing that happen. Slowly, but surely, each new MMO is trying something fresh, taking what worked for others, and expanding the modern MMO. Now I am hoping to see another Dev come along and do what Blizzard did all those years ago and take what is awesome, fix what is broken, and throw out what is old and crappy.
My money is on Blizzard. :P
For added fun down memory lane, check out this link for a Timeline of MMOs!
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Ya know I have a friends who loves to give me crap cause I'm such a fanboy when it comes to GW2. Says that there is no way that it can possibly live up to all the hype I'm giving it. And to be honest I sometimes wonder if he may be somewhat closer to right than wrong. Then I come by and read these threads and my faith in the game is renewed. Even if it's only half as good as these threads lead me to believe it will be then I will be one happy camper.
TheDrome
You probably just have Shitty Friends!
Very true.
TheDrome
Why in gods name do you sign your posts.
It's just how I roll.
TheDrome
Not anymore.
Sterica on
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
This is particularly amusing considering NCSoft's lawsuit against TERA.
Honestly now when I see that pic I can't help but imagine this exchange:
NCSoft: "I'm glad you decided to be the bigger man and let this mess all be water under the bridge!"
TERA: "Yeah, yeah... bigger man. Hey, fun fact, I roofied your ale... asshole."
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
This is particularly amusing considering NCSoft's lawsuit against TERA.
Honestly now when I see that pic I can't help but imagine this exchange:
NCSoft: "I'm glad you decided to be the bigger man and let this mess all be water under the bridge!"
TERA: "Yeah, yeah... bigger man. Hey, fun fact, I roofied your ale... asshole."
This is particularly amusing considering NCSoft's lawsuit against TERA.
Honestly now when I see that pic I can't help but imagine this exchange:
NCSoft: "I'm glad you decided to be the bigger man and let this mess all be water under the bridge!"
TERA: "Yeah, yeah... bigger man. Hey, fun fact, I roofied your ale... asshole."
NCsoft isn't GW2/ArenaNet
But ArenaNet is a part of NCsoft.
Though I imagine about as much as Blizzard is a part of Activision.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
This is particularly amusing considering NCSoft's lawsuit against TERA.
Honestly now when I see that pic I can't help but imagine this exchange:
NCSoft: "I'm glad you decided to be the bigger man and let this mess all be water under the bridge!"
TERA: "Yeah, yeah... bigger man. Hey, fun fact, I roofied your ale... asshole."
NCsoft isn't GW2/ArenaNet
But ArenaNet is a part of NCsoft.
Though I imagine about as much as Blizzard is a part of Activision.
Insomuch... not at all. NCsoft handles publishing.
Wow really? In so much bitching we do in these threads, we're going to latch onto the way someone signs a post? And then Infract them? This is truly befuddling to me.
edit: Of course now I realize, he edited out some stuff I've not seen so there's more to the story.
To be fair I think it's actually against the forum rules, and it was also only a minor infraction, which is exactly what happens when people disobey the forums rules inadvertently. Like posting a huge image on accident.
Posts
I had a friend like that as well. Giant skeptic.
But the more he saw, the farther he fell. Now, he is like us.
He is one of us.
Why in gods name do you sign your posts.
Gotta do what you gotta do.
I don't think it's fair to write off SWTOR completely as being "bland", especially when a lot of the mechanics that make it not a WoW clone are in GW2 and are going to push what we want out of MMOs. The "MMO Successor" race has been a series of progressions that will eventually lead to the next big thing. SW:TOR is going to push MMOs devs into making better stories and more varied worlds, with player characters being able to do more than simply grunt or tell a few off-color jokes and NPCs being more than the same person (voice and look) over and over again. Similarly, WAR pushed the envelope with area quests and open world PVP, bringing a new perspective to how you handle "Go there and do this" when there are 20 people being told to do that at the same time. Rift took the idea of area quests that WAR brought to the table, and pushed it even further, making random events that could draw in an entire population of players to work together. ANet has directly pointed to CoH as the originator of their "Sidekick" system that allows better interactions between players of drastically different levels.
You can't write off any of these MMOs, they all bring something to the dev community that makes the MMO intrinsically better despite the flaws.
I don't think calling TOR bland is the same as writing it off. I mean, I am enjoying it, but "bland" is a pretty relevant criticism. Blandness of a game doesn't discount all of its successes, of which TOR has many I will agree.
I found it to be bland, even with the supposed great Story telling, which I didn't find great. The Voice Over to me is a gimmick more than a great innovation, due to fact that one point, you are hitting the space bar going, Yeah yeah yeah. Be this as you level to 50 or more so for me, when I created a new character and started hitting the same area quests that I had already done with previous characters.
Considering it came out BEFORE WoW >.o.
Wow was the first multiplayer game except goldeneye
SHUT YOUR LYING MOUTH
it was perfect dark
Full disclosure: GW2 is the first MMO to which I've ever paid much attention. I don't think TOR is a copy of WoW at all, only that the marketing for it which filtered down to me largely consisted of pushing the Star Wars and BioWare brands without really telling me anything about the game.
I recognise the pedigree of a lot of the ideas put into GW2, but ANet's handling of the hype for it has mostly been to show off how fun the game will be to play instead of relying so much on their brand.
Me and my friends played so much Perfect Dark. So much. We were late back to school many times from lunch due to "just finish this match". Slo-mo, pistols only on Temple with all dark sims was great fun. Oh, and Facility, slo-mo, prox-mines, n-bombs, and shotguns, with all dark sims.
GW2: Tavalisk.9463
ToR (or other "next gen" MMO), to me, is like going back to Disney World now as a 30-something adult and having all of the glitz and polish there, with none of the magic.
But anyway, I'm sure we all don't want this to devolve into a thread bashing not-GW2 for being awful...and GW2 might not be the end-all be-all...but when I watch some of those videos, my pant-splitting wang tells me otherwise.
I think one of the poster-children for Age of Conan disappointments was that they never put out drunken bar brawling. Just one more item in the massive list of things they promised and never delivered.
It's a silly fluff feature, but silly fluff features are what you need for when the players aren't out SAVING DA WORLD from the big bad(s).
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
But they also say there is a ton of CARROT, but no STICK.
Then you blink and it's all gone.
Transmutation stones help, but all I really want is the assurance that they won't go completely overboard with how gear is handled.
EDIT: Alright, I should be fine then.
Other than what stats are on an item, the amount is all the same for whatever 'tiered level thingamajigger' an item is in. At max level you'll snag a piece of equipment more for that it looks really cool, rather than it being better. And with Transmutation stones, which hopefully are available in-game via karma, you can keep a look you like. Or what I like to do, mix and match to make something unique.
And on top of all that you can color things, most items seeming to be 1-2 different color types available. I just hope they still let you color weapons, and therefore color shields.
It's just how I roll.
TheDrome
That's pretty fucking cool.
This is why I always buy MMOs that try something new or different. The game may turn out pretty "meh", but I like to pretend my purchases help encourage other Devs to stop for a minute and think, "Maybe we should try something new."
Hell, the entire success of WoW is based on the principle of taking everything that was good from past MMOs and removing what wasn't. I'm not even sure of anything in WoW at release that was new to MMOs (I'm willing to bet most of the stuff added after release wasn't new either).
I'm not knocking Blizzard for that practice, it works, but now I want to see another game come along and do what WoW did to MMOs seven or so years ago and take all the new and interesting features from MMOs of the past several years, cut the crap we don't like, and sell it to me.
The biggest thing WoW did new and keeps improving on was the idea that MMOs didn't have to be a huge grind or punishing or ultra-realistic. They sacrificed realism for gameplay.
And it worked for a long time and still does to an extent today.
And I agree with Dedwrekka that we are seeing that happen. Slowly, but surely, each new MMO is trying something fresh, taking what worked for others, and expanding the modern MMO. Now I am hoping to see another Dev come along and do what Blizzard did all those years ago and take what is awesome, fix what is broken, and throw out what is old and crappy.
My money is on Blizzard. :P
For added fun down memory lane, check out this link for a Timeline of MMOs!
This is particularly amusing considering NCSoft's lawsuit against TERA.
Honestly now when I see that pic I can't help but imagine this exchange:
NCSoft: "I'm glad you decided to be the bigger man and let this mess all be water under the bridge!"
TERA: "Yeah, yeah... bigger man. Hey, fun fact, I roofied your ale... asshole."
NCsoft isn't GW2/ArenaNet
Not terribly surprising.
But ArenaNet is a part of NCsoft.
Though I imagine about as much as Blizzard is a part of Activision.
Insomuch... not at all. NCsoft handles publishing.
edit: Of course now I realize, he edited out some stuff I've not seen so there's more to the story.
It's really not a thing.