Especially as there doesn't seem to be any primer in the game.
There's no one shouting "Do a barrel roll" when that first boss does an AoE. There's no one saying "I think you should look at stat X, seeing as how you're a Y".
This video explains why I think that is a good thing. (Ignore most of the MegaMan stuff. Just about the "Help" that new players get now a days.)
That video was a FANTASTIC watch. I think game devs today need to be reading that like right now. Less in your face tutorials and more intuitive figuring things out.
I can't believe how brilliant Megaman X is, I must have played it a dozen times but didn't realize how well thought out learning the mechanics was until I saw this
I am making that a requirement for my raids any more.
I don't understand those images. They're too small to see anything.
Mostly he's pointing out poor skill choices.
Also, having seen players attempt and fail the jump in Wailing Caverns (which I believe was removed in Cataclysm???!??!), I look forward with great anticipation to the lamentations of the noobs in GW2.
It was. They also removed most of the eastern section of the dungeon because it was too much like a maze. All the bosses therein were shoved closer to other ones in the south. I was disappointed.
As much as I want everyone who plays GW2 to have fun and not become frustrated with a better system because of their own human failings, I can't say I won't enjoy crushing them with a two handed hammer or watching them fail to dodge my bullets. Learning how to create a great build that's your own, to dodge, to self heal, to avoid danger and use your environment to your advantage, these are the things which will make the game something special. If some people can't handle putting time and effort into learning that then maybe the community is better off without them.
Yeah, I'm not so sure why people are worried about other people who don't play MMOs very well. I mean, the instanced dungeons are only 5-person groups, and surely folks can find 5 reasonably competent friends with whom to run exploration-mode dungeons. As for world events, maybe some folks will die a lot, but that's no biggie. Hauling them back to life will give us thieves something to do while we're backed away from the main action using our healing skill. Assuming we're not using the "get health back by attacking" one, that is.
It's not about that. It's about looking out for the players to make sure they have all the info they need. You don't design games for the minute percentage of people who look at the title of a game and know everything about how to play it. You design them so that people who are not used to the conventions of a genre of games are going to be able to figure it out without forcing them to feel like idiots because "of course you double click the third mouse button to double jump, didn't you read the 100 page prerelease forums topics?!"
It's about making the game accessible to the people who will make it successful, and that's not the people who already know everything about the game before they buy it.
I'm worried about the above, because if the game isn't accessible it isn't going to be as successful as it could be, and I want it to be as successful as it could possibly be.
And all the discussion about how the megaman X video proves that they don't need it is missing that the Guild Wars combat is very obviously nowhere near as intuitive as the video suggests games should be, as many people just getting into it through the press beta completely missed important parts of the mechanics.
Yeah, I'm not so sure why people are worried about other people who don't play MMOs very well. I mean, the instanced dungeons are only 5-person groups, and surely folks can find 5 reasonably competent friends with whom to run exploration-mode dungeons. As for world events, maybe some folks will die a lot, but that's no biggie. Hauling them back to life will give us thieves something to do while we're backed away from the main action using our healing skill. Assuming we're not using the "get health back by attacking" one, that is.
It's not about that. It's about looking out for the players to make sure they have all the info they need. You don't design games for the minute percentage of people who look at the title of a game and know everything about how to play it. You design them so that people who are not used to the conventions of a genre of games are going to be able to figure it out without forcing them to feel like idiots because "of course you double click the third mouse button to double jump, didn't you read the 100 page prerelease forums topics?!"
It's about making the game accessible to the people who will make it successful, and that's not the people who already know everything about the game before they buy it.
I'm worried about the above, because if the game isn't accessible it isn't going to be as successful as it could be, and I want it to be as successful as it could possibly be.
And all the discussion about how the megaman X video proves that they don't need it is missing that the Guild Wars combat is very obviously nowhere near as intuitive as the video suggests games should be, as many people just getting into it through the press beta completely missed important parts of the mechanics.
Or maybe they didn't care? You can explain to someone every mechanic in a game and even tell them what they are doing wrong and what they should do to get past a certain. It doesn't mean they WILL.
I've seen plenty of the press things where people mention dodging (this means they know it exists) and yet they still don't use it. Even if they know how helpful it can be... unless they NEED to (and even then.....) they will use as few mechanics as possible.
People play games VERY differently. This is hard for people to grasp. I've seen this many times. I've told people how to beat a boss in a game. They die 5 more times not doing what I say until they just barel manage to skate through. They aren't interested in doing everything perfectly. They just want to keep doing what they are doing.
Pfft, Charr had their Gods/masters killed by the 'inferior' races, twice! Can't really have too much pride in worshipping the crap out of two different species (second one less than the first) only to watch them get beat down by mere mortals who aren't you.
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
The charr do have a pretty awesome backstory, but they look dumb.
People like the Charr because they're roman legionnaire/mongol cat minotaur men who got dunked by humans and said "You know what was wrong with our approach? Being a bunch of spineless gooses who rely on deities to give us power. Fuck that, and fuck everyone responsible for that dumb idea. Lets do science to this bitch"
AND SO THEY DID AND GUNS/TANKS HAPPENED AND HUMANS GOT DUNKED. KING ADELBERN IS A NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
I want to know a bit more about Sylvari and gear. I doubt they'll prance around in the same clothes the other races use.
0
Options
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
So I've decided to use SpongeBob Squarepants's surprisingly long and impressive list of Production Music as intro music for my Streams, most of which will be GW2 related.
The things we do while waiting for beta...
0
Options
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
And I personally like the Charr because they are hideous. Arenanet had the balls to make a beast race and not bow to the internets desire for everything ever to be ~so svelte and sexy~. No they are completely inhuman and unpleasant to look at and I dig it.
They didn't go the retarded Worgen route with this.
I want to know a bit more about Sylvari and gear. I doubt they'll prance around in the same clothes the other races use.
They in fact will, after a certain point. Every race has what is more or less 'racial' armor types, that only they can wear(I think). While the Sylvari can choose to wear their armor made out of leafs, plants, bark and such they can also wear normal armor.
And I personally like the Charr because they are hideous. Arenanet had the balls to make a beast race and not bow to the internets desire for everything ever to be ~so svelte and sexy~. No they are completely inhuman and unpleasant to look at and I dig it.
They didn't go the retarded Worgen route with this.
Part of the reason they are my first race to play. I like playing the usual fare like humans and I like playing as both genders, but, as a change, I'd like to play around with something that's maybe not Aion monkeyman levels of OMFG KILL IT WITH FIRE ugly, but has enough character and depth and flavour to make ugly work. They want Charr to fit, but be different.
When I shoot you with my gun, I want the last thought in your head to be the humiliating realization that a cat cow man thing kicked your ass.
0
Options
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I want to know a bit more about Sylvari and gear. I doubt they'll prance around in the same clothes the other races use.
They in fact will, after a certain point. Every race has what is more or less 'racial' armor types, that only they can wear(I think). While the Sylvari can choose to wear their armor made out of leafs, plants, bark and such they can also wear normal armor.
And the versatility of dyes, armor sets and customization available means that if you wanna go full plant, you can.
And I personally like the Charr because they are hideous. Arenanet had the balls to make a beast race and not bow to the internets desire for everything ever to be ~so svelte and sexy~. No they are completely inhuman and unpleasant to look at and I dig it.
They didn't go the retarded Worgen route with this.
AKA 'No boobs!' *cough*everybeastlywowrace*cough*
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
I expect to see just as many Female Charr as I have Female Worgen. Which is say, almost none whatsoever. Though I guess the only way to tell a female charr from a male is....close inspection?
man were going to hit page 100 before beta invites go out.
0
Options
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Humie for me. Much less beastlike, searching for their gods, and I don't want to be a snow barbarian/floppy eared goblin/plant people(I saw Little Shop of Horrors, nothing good can come from big concious plants)/Cat people. However, I will always call the charr the charrathi.
I want to know a bit more about Sylvari and gear. I doubt they'll prance around in the same clothes the other races use.
They in fact will, after a certain point. Every race has what is more or less 'racial' armor types, that only they can wear(I think). While the Sylvari can choose to wear their armor made out of leafs, plants, bark and such they can also wear normal armor.
This is correct. There are race-specific armors, but all races can wear general armors.
And I personally like the Charr because they are hideous. Arenanet had the balls to make a beast race and not bow to the internets desire for everything ever to be ~so svelte and sexy~. No they are completely inhuman and unpleasant to look at and I dig it.
They didn't go the retarded Worgen route with this.
AKA 'No boobs!' *cough*everybeastlywowrace*cough*
But they do have boobs... Six of them in fact.
World's best janitor
0
Options
SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
If you guys keep bitching after the game comes out I will TURN THIS GUILD AROUND SO HARD.
And I personally like the Charr because they are hideous. Arenanet had the balls to make a beast race and not bow to the internets desire for everything ever to be ~so svelte and sexy~. No they are completely inhuman and unpleasant to look at and I dig it.
They didn't go the retarded Worgen route with this.
AKA 'No boobs!' *cough*everybeastlywowrace*cough*
But they do have boobs... Six of them in fact.
Doesn't matter. Arenanet has done us the service of not being mouthbreathing creepers and drawing unending and exclusive attention to them.
And I personally like the Charr because they are hideous. Arenanet had the balls to make a beast race and not bow to the internets desire for everything ever to be ~so svelte and sexy~. No they are completely inhuman and unpleasant to look at and I dig it.
They didn't go the retarded Worgen route with this.
Yeah, I'm not so sure why people are worried about other people who don't play MMOs very well. I mean, the instanced dungeons are only 5-person groups, and surely folks can find 5 reasonably competent friends with whom to run exploration-mode dungeons. As for world events, maybe some folks will die a lot, but that's no biggie. Hauling them back to life will give us thieves something to do while we're backed away from the main action using our healing skill. Assuming we're not using the "get health back by attacking" one, that is.
It's not about that. It's about looking out for the players to make sure they have all the info they need. You don't design games for the minute percentage of people who look at the title of a game and know everything about how to play it. You design them so that people who are not used to the conventions of a genre of games are going to be able to figure it out without forcing them to feel like idiots because "of course you double click the third mouse button to double jump, didn't you read the 100 page prerelease forums topics?!"
It's about making the game accessible to the people who will make it successful, and that's not the people who already know everything about the game before they buy it.
I'm worried about the above, because if the game isn't accessible it isn't going to be as successful as it could be, and I want it to be as successful as it could possibly be.
And all the discussion about how the megaman X video proves that they don't need it is missing that the Guild Wars combat is very obviously nowhere near as intuitive as the video suggests games should be, as many people just getting into it through the press beta completely missed important parts of the mechanics.
This has been, and continues to be, a major failing of MMOs in particular. Look at a "game" like Farmville. It's instantly accessible. Hell, my 70-year old mother-in-law plays Farmville and LOVES it. Imagine your grandmother sitting down to play a recent MMO. Not with you hovering over her telling her what to do, but just sitting down and playing it. Do you think she would "get" how things work, or be able to perform anything beyond the most rudimentary actions?
A few years back, I had a chance to show my step-father a flight sim. He had never flown a plane before, but was completely fascinated by the concept. He simply did not understand how to control the plane. Period. For example, when you turn a car, you just rotate a steering wheel and the car goes that way. But an aircraft doesn't have (very good) side-to-side control; it's primarily up-and-down. So to turn, you rotate the plane until "up" is the way you want to go, then pull straight back. I watched him muddle through the simplest mission possible and he simply could not "get" how to make it work. It wasn't that he was "bad" at the game, he just didn't have the toolset to figure it out, nor the experience to even understand basic instruction. When I was telling him how-to, it was like I was speaking a foreign language.
The point is that the average person just simply doesn't "understand" MMO play. We, as enthusiasts of the genre, take things in stride and adapt to new playstyles. For non-MMO players, the whole concept of "controlling a person in a fantasy world" is new, much less gameplay elements like skill chains, weapons swapping and dodging! The average (casual) gamer, knows push left/right/forward/back to move and fire to attack. And that's it.
One of my coworkers introduced his wife to Guild Wars several years back. She's a pretty smart lady, has a masters degree, is a teacher, blah blah. I still remember how excited she was at one of our company events, because she had just discovered that you could type /dance and your "person" (to use her words) would do a little dance. She had been playing (off and on) for about a year at that point. Emotes were something she hadn't even considered as a possibility, much less how to actually perform them.
0
Options
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I feel like getting a inexperienced gamer even to play an MMO is sort of like...having someone new to chess play with a timer. It's just WAY more complex than other kinds of games.
I feel like getting a inexperienced gamer even to play an MMO is sort of like...having someone new to chess play with a timer. It's just WAY more complex than other kinds of games.
18 minutes of WvW from TB. Now, this isn't commentated as far as I can tell (I don't have sound at work), but it is footage if you want to watch. I think the actual commentary is some gaming news stuff. Maybe just mute it and watch if you are bored.
QuirkyLittleTyrantA Mug Featuring Pichu On A CloudRegistered Userregular
The social part of MMOs really threw me for the loop initially. The actual game part was fairly easy to grasp - understanding the game's economy and navigating dungeons as a group was something else entirely.
Posts
I am making that a requirement for my raids any more.
It was. They also removed most of the eastern section of the dungeon because it was too much like a maze. All the bosses therein were shoved closer to other ones in the south. I was disappointed.
As much as I want everyone who plays GW2 to have fun and not become frustrated with a better system because of their own human failings, I can't say I won't enjoy crushing them with a two handed hammer or watching them fail to dodge my bullets. Learning how to create a great build that's your own, to dodge, to self heal, to avoid danger and use your environment to your advantage, these are the things which will make the game something special. If some people can't handle putting time and effort into learning that then maybe the community is better off without them.
They also happen to be the best.
I mean, if you wanna roll an inferior race, that's fine too.
It's not about that. It's about looking out for the players to make sure they have all the info they need. You don't design games for the minute percentage of people who look at the title of a game and know everything about how to play it. You design them so that people who are not used to the conventions of a genre of games are going to be able to figure it out without forcing them to feel like idiots because "of course you double click the third mouse button to double jump, didn't you read the 100 page prerelease forums topics?!"
It's about making the game accessible to the people who will make it successful, and that's not the people who already know everything about the game before they buy it.
I'm worried about the above, because if the game isn't accessible it isn't going to be as successful as it could be, and I want it to be as successful as it could possibly be.
And all the discussion about how the megaman X video proves that they don't need it is missing that the Guild Wars combat is very obviously nowhere near as intuitive as the video suggests games should be, as many people just getting into it through the press beta completely missed important parts of the mechanics.
Probably the same reason so many people like Wolverine. A badass is a badass.
The charr slayed their masters. Twice. Three times, even. They slayed them good.
You don't want to pretend to be masters of the best. Probably better to just beg for your life.
Or maybe they didn't care? You can explain to someone every mechanic in a game and even tell them what they are doing wrong and what they should do to get past a certain. It doesn't mean they WILL.
I've seen plenty of the press things where people mention dodging (this means they know it exists) and yet they still don't use it. Even if they know how helpful it can be... unless they NEED to (and even then.....) they will use as few mechanics as possible.
People play games VERY differently. This is hard for people to grasp. I've seen this many times. I've told people how to beat a boss in a game. They die 5 more times not doing what I say until they just barel manage to skate through. They aren't interested in doing everything perfectly. They just want to keep doing what they are doing.
Pfft, Charr had their Gods/masters killed by the 'inferior' races, twice! Can't really have too much pride in worshipping the crap out of two different species (second one less than the first) only to watch them get beat down by mere mortals who aren't you.
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
People like the Charr because they're roman legionnaire/mongol cat minotaur men who got dunked by humans and said "You know what was wrong with our approach? Being a bunch of spineless gooses who rely on deities to give us power. Fuck that, and fuck everyone responsible for that dumb idea. Lets do science to this bitch"
AND SO THEY DID AND GUNS/TANKS HAPPENED AND HUMANS GOT DUNKED. KING ADELBERN IS A NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
NOOBLORD
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
The things we do while waiting for beta...
They can, but they'd also got planty racial gear.
They didn't go the retarded Worgen route with this.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
They in fact will, after a certain point. Every race has what is more or less 'racial' armor types, that only they can wear(I think). While the Sylvari can choose to wear their armor made out of leafs, plants, bark and such they can also wear normal armor.
Part of the reason they are my first race to play. I like playing the usual fare like humans and I like playing as both genders, but, as a change, I'd like to play around with something that's maybe not Aion monkeyman levels of OMFG KILL IT WITH FIRE ugly, but has enough character and depth and flavour to make ugly work. They want Charr to fit, but be different.
When I shoot you with my gun, I want the last thought in your head to be the humiliating realization that a cat cow man thing kicked your ass.
And the versatility of dyes, armor sets and customization available means that if you wanna go full plant, you can.
AKA 'No boobs!' *cough*everybeastlywowrace*cough*
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
This is correct. There are race-specific armors, but all races can wear general armors.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
Doesn't matter. Arenanet has done us the service of not being mouthbreathing creepers and drawing unending and exclusive attention to them.
We should do the same, unlike TERA!
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Stop giving Caedere ideas.
Hands off our WANG, you.
This has been, and continues to be, a major failing of MMOs in particular. Look at a "game" like Farmville. It's instantly accessible. Hell, my 70-year old mother-in-law plays Farmville and LOVES it. Imagine your grandmother sitting down to play a recent MMO. Not with you hovering over her telling her what to do, but just sitting down and playing it. Do you think she would "get" how things work, or be able to perform anything beyond the most rudimentary actions?
A few years back, I had a chance to show my step-father a flight sim. He had never flown a plane before, but was completely fascinated by the concept. He simply did not understand how to control the plane. Period. For example, when you turn a car, you just rotate a steering wheel and the car goes that way. But an aircraft doesn't have (very good) side-to-side control; it's primarily up-and-down. So to turn, you rotate the plane until "up" is the way you want to go, then pull straight back. I watched him muddle through the simplest mission possible and he simply could not "get" how to make it work. It wasn't that he was "bad" at the game, he just didn't have the toolset to figure it out, nor the experience to even understand basic instruction. When I was telling him how-to, it was like I was speaking a foreign language.
The point is that the average person just simply doesn't "understand" MMO play. We, as enthusiasts of the genre, take things in stride and adapt to new playstyles. For non-MMO players, the whole concept of "controlling a person in a fantasy world" is new, much less gameplay elements like skill chains, weapons swapping and dodging! The average (casual) gamer, knows push left/right/forward/back to move and fire to attack. And that's it.
One of my coworkers introduced his wife to Guild Wars several years back. She's a pretty smart lady, has a masters degree, is a teacher, blah blah. I still remember how excited she was at one of our company events, because she had just discovered that you could type /dance and your "person" (to use her words) would do a little dance. She had been playing (off and on) for about a year at that point. Emotes were something she hadn't even considered as a possibility, much less how to actually perform them.
Don't worry, Arthil has the OP template I e-mailed him all edited and ready to go. He'll post the next thread while I await freedom from jail.
[GW2] New Event Nearby - March Beta!
GW2: Tavalisk.9463
Lady Charr have longer fur growing on their tails, too. Dude Charr have this lion tuft thing.
Steam: ZappRowsdower
Not really, no.
It's really not that hard to get rolling though.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
Steam: ZappRowsdower