How to turn an idea into a story; when do you leave the ink in the bottle?

GotrM15

I am a young man, with a virgin pen: I've never written anything longer than a poem, and even those sparingly. I'd like to write more: short stories, novels, more poems, even an epic!

My problem is that I have an assortment of ideas, and some intuition of how hard it is to actually write a novel. That's a lot of words, and then you've got to rip out like a third of it and put in 50% more detail once you're done (the first time). It sounds like a nightmare. And while it's one I'm willing to endure, I'm worried about what happens when I get about 3/4ths into a novel (or even a short story) and say to myself, "Forget it, I'm done. This is boring me now, I'm not even doing this for a living anyway. Caputs."

I have a lot of larval stories in this brain of mine, waiting to be applied to paper (or cathode ray tubes, as the case may be). When those of you who have written more than I sit down a think, "What would I like to write about," do you have more ideas than you have time to deal with too? And how do you decide when to let one go, and keep another one? Is it something I just have to try a bunch until I get a feel for how I deal with the writing process? Or when I think of "the one," will I just fall in love with it and be unable to resist working it out?

What have been your experiences? Help out the tadpole writers, please!

ElJeffe

Don't start by writing a novel. Pick an idea that can be explored in a few thousand words or less and then write. Then write something else.

The first thing you write will be bad. Accept this. Nobody picks up a pen for the first time and writes something great. This is fine. But if you start out writing something with 80k words, and you realize halfway through that it is, in fact, bad, it will be extremely demoralizing. Because you just spent the last month or two or three making something not very good, and you still haven't even finished it.

Start small. Write somethijng short and cmplete and get feedback. Wash, rinse, repeat. And when you get to the point where your writing is good (or at least better), you can then start fresh and make something you're proud of.

chiasaur11

Jeffe has good advice.

Another tip? Get Stephen King's On Writing if you can find a copy for a price you're willing to pay. It's an excellent resource.

One of the best books on the subject. Better, a lot of libraries carry it.

DocWalrus

I pretty much exclusively write short stories, and I've kind of gotten a method down for writing and finishing them.

1. Get an idea for a story (good job, you already did that a million times.)
2. Flesh it out a little, focus on a handful of interesting/exciting scenes.
3. Write the first draft. Make it like a Gears of War level, basically: a string of a few well-done scenes connected with boring filler.
4. Now you have a story that doesn't suck at 3 or 4 parts, but the rest is clearly flawed. Now that the big things are out of the way(for now), focus on improving the filler between major scenes. Replace the filler bullshit by fleshing out characters, painting the environment of the story, setting the mood etc.
5.Repeat 4 like a hundred times until you and the people you show it to can't think of any flaws.
6. Read it out loud to yourself as you edit it, rewriting sentences that are clunky or awkward. Repeat until the story flows smoothly at all times.

And there you go. This should get you started, but it's not always this simple of a process. I'm still not a great writer, but I've come a long way by developing this kind of method.

TheBigEasy

GotrM15 wrote:

When those of you who have written more than I sit down a think, "What would I like to write about," do you have more ideas than you have time to deal with too?

Write them down. Every idea you get - put them in a notebook. You don't have to do anything with those ideas right away, just keep em somewhere before you forget them. Don't try and use them all at once or right when you get them. Let them simmer for a while in the notebook, then come back and have a look at what you can use.

Other than that ... what Jeffe said. Take one idea and start writing. Don't try a novel at first. There is a form called flash fiction, that is a 1000 words or less. Try that. Then try a bigger story.

It's like with every other skill you are trying to aquire. Practise, practise, practise or in this case, write, write, write - and then write some more.

ElJeffe

First: chiasaur is dead-on about On Writing. It is a great resource and also very interesting as regards how King became a writer.

Second: Along with what TBE said regarding flash-fiction, you don't even necessarily need to write complete stories. At least not at first. Write a single scene, or something that conveys a single emotion or event. If you're having trouble laying down a complete narrative arc (which is not uncommon at all), there are plenty of elements to the craft that you can work on by creating pocket moments in time that can't necessarily stand alone, but still communicate something worthwhile. It can help you work on dialogue, scene setting, description, or just simple things like grammar and style.

TheBigEasy

Add another recommendation for "On Writing" ... I got the 10th anniversary edition for my birthday last month and I am currently reading it ... sooo good.

Quoth

I'll add my support for writing short short stories, but with the caveat that they can present their own difficulties. It's not easy to successfully establish all the components of a good story in so few words, but at least it's over quickly so as Jeffe said, you haven't sunk a ton of time into something crappy. It can also be great if you have a lot of ideas, because there's an element of instant gratification. It's also a more natural transition from poetry because short fiction can be more lyrical and less narrative, so like Jeffe said again, you can do things like focus on dialog or atmosphere or some other component.

geardrops

GotrM15 wrote:

My problem is that I have an assortment of ideas, and some intuition of how hard it is to actually write a novel. That's a lot of words, and then you've got to rip out like a third of it and put in 50% more detail once you're done (the first time). It sounds like a nightmare. And while it's one I'm willing to endure, I'm worried about what happens when I get about 3/4ths into a novel (or even a short story) and say to myself, "Forget it, I'm done. This is boring me now, I'm not even doing this for a living anyway. Caputs."

So, you should be aware, this is likely to happen. My first novel was trunked about 3/4 through. Be braced for that. As long as you are writing and earnestly putting effort into improving your craft, no time spent writing is a waste. Even that trunked 3/4 of a novel and the several short stories of mine which will NEVER see the light of day, those were all very useful learning tools for me. Without them, I never would have written the stuff that finally DID sell.

Accept that for a time your writing will likely suck. But if you don't do it, you'll never improve

OremLK

On Writing is good if you are a discovery writer. Discovery writer meaning, somebody who just sits down and starts writing without an outline. King talks a lot about his process, which works for some people and will work horribly for others. I'm an outliner, so I feel On Writing was a big setback for me as I took it as gospel in my younger years. However, it's still an enjoyable book; King's voice is ever a pleasure to read and his memoir is very interesting.

A book I found more valuable was Characters & Viewpoint by Orson Scott Card. He's more analytical in his approach to writing and you'll gain a lot of understanding about how and why a story works through reading it.

I also recommend the Writing Excuses podcast which has a lot to offer to an inexperienced writer.

In terms of the original question, about going from idea to story: I strongly advise combining two or more ideas and letting the conflict and interplay between them bring out the story. Most stories are flat with only one idea, even short stories, but especially longer works.

But yeah, I agree with everyone else that it's most important to just write, and don't be afraid to write garbage. I finished my first novel by simply saying I don't care how shit this is, I'm going to finish it anyway. (It's pretty shit, but I finished a whole novel, which is more than many aspiring writers do, and learned a lot in the process.) If you're an outliner, do at least a simple outline first. You may have to try writing with and without an outline to find out which you are. Whichever approach makes it easiest for you to push through to the end is probably the one for you

TheBigEasy

OremLK wrote:

But yeah, I agree with everyone else that it's most important to just write, and don't be afraid to write garbage. I finished my first novel by simply saying I don't care how shit this is, I'm going to finish it anyway. (It's pretty shit, but I finished a whole novel, which is more than many aspiring writers do, and learned a lot in the process.) If you're an outliner, do at least a simple outline first. You may have to try writing with and without an outline to find out which you are. Whichever approach makes it easiest for you to push through to the end is probably the one for you

I still haven't found out. On my current WiP I keep constantly changing stuff, don't find the right mood to sit down and just write that shit, not sure how long/big I want it to be, keep changing between 'I need to outline this stuff down to every detail' and 'Nah, let's just write and fix it in editing' ...

Sigh ... writing is hard.

ElJeffe

OremLK wrote:

On Writing is good if you are a discovery writer. Discovery writer meaning, somebody who just sits down and starts writing without an outline. King talks a lot about his process, which works for some people and will work horribly for others. I'm an outliner, so I feel On Writing was a big setback for me as I took it as gospel in my younger years. However, it's still an enjoyable book; King's voice is ever a pleasure to read and his memoir is very interesting.

I'll disagree slightly and say that whatever type of writer you are, On Writing has some good advice. Such as: Be honest in your writing (an example King uses is to know when to write that someone is evacuating their bowels versus when they're taking a shit). Also: Avoid excessively purple writing (which everyone should know but a lot seem to forget). He also has some good advice on editing your own work.

Whichever approach makes it easiest for you to push through to the end is probably the one for you

But yes, this is important to remember. There is very little gospel to be found when it comes to writing. Everyone will have their own methods, and the only correct way is the way that makes you write good stuff. Pretty much the only constant is "Write a lot of words until your words start being good and not bad. And then keep writing."

OremLK

Yeah, there is definitely some good stuff in On Writing. Just realize that King is a very persuasive and charismatic guy and despite the fact that he's always going to make it sound good, a lot of the stuff he says may not be true for you. I think this is more a problem with On Writing than of some other "how to write" things I've read/listened to/been taught, because King leaves little room for differing methods. If I remember right he basically comes out and says "If you outline and know your ending ahead of time you're a filthy liar of an author and BAD. NO." This I think is not absolutely true and can be very damaging advice to try to follow if you're an outliner.

Quoth

Another good book: The Art of Dramatic Writing by Lajos Egri

http://www.writerswrite.com/fiction/egri.htm

GotrM15

I've been without the Internet for so long, so I'd almost lost track of this thread!

Thank you all so much for all the advice -- I can assure you: it'll help. I just have to sit down and actually do something now But knowing what might happen, what might be a challenge, and how I can get around all that to finish a story will let me start.

Many thanks, and I'll be sure to settle something here once it's written!