Desktop shopping ($900-1k budget)

Iruka

I am desktop shopping. I need a dedicated graphics card, preferably nividia, and I need a computer that can run the CS5 suite, and 3Ds max, and probably zbrush. Gaming is pretty secondary, any computer I get should run minecraft and thats all I need.

I've been a dell user for like 6-7 years now, and I've had a good experience on the XPS side, but the prices aren't always the best. I dont really have the time build a PC, I need to get back to artwork and I already have to wait to build up the proper funds for the purchase. What I'm looking for is an opinion on other brands right now, from folks who have made recent computer purchases. I've only ever had major brands (HP and Dell,) I dont care about pretty lights or any of that, I just need the most power for the price.

bowen

Are you looking for prefabbed or are you looking to build it yourself? This changes things considerably.

Prefabbed you'll end up getting less machine, but you get warranties and all that fancy stuff which might be preferable. Building yourself you get more bang for your buck.

I assume you don't need keyboard/mouse/monitor too, right?

wakkawa

MOBO - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121506&Tpk=dh67bl - $90
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115072 -$220
560ti - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130604 -$250
16gig DDR3 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178382 -$88
DVDburner - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289 -$18
500gig HDD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145299 -$90
OEMwindows7 -http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986 -$99
MICROATX case+500w(good)PSU - -$150

This is pretty much the computer I bought about 4 months ago. It's pretty awesome, and it's a microATX.

You can save money by reusing some old components. HDD, dvd drive, Windows, case, or whatever else you might have.

Iruka

I have a cheap monitor that can suffice until I can drop another 300 on one. the 900 is the budget for a computer and a key board and mouse.

Unfortunately, I don't really have the time to build one. While I'm good with computers I'd much rather get my year to blame someone else if something breaks. I need to get a working computer in here in the next two weeks or so, and its already a hassle to get things shipped to me, the last thing I need is to keep track of 20 packages of parts. If the savings are huge I may be talked into it, But only if we are talking at least a hundred dollars difference for the prebuilt equivalent.

Im not really buying a dream computer, here, just need a work horse for now. I don't even plan to load any games on it, really, but my work needs happen to require a bit of power.

Wakk: How long did the shipping take and how easily did you put it together?

I also have a laptop that is failing is many ways, so part salvaging is probably not going to happen.

Draygo

Building it yourself you usually still have warranties, you just have to understand they go by a part by part basis. Hard drives for example typically come with a 3 year warrantee from the manufacturer if they are OEM drives. RAM is typically limited lifetime. Motherboard 3-5 years, etc.

If your hard drive goes bad in an HP computer one and a half years after you purchased it and a half year after your included HP warrantee expires, you are SOL. You cant take out the hard drive and try to RMA it to the hard drive manufacturer.

As far as building a pc goes, it doesn't take that much time. 1-3 hours for assembly (depending on how experienced you are) and 1-2 hours to install the operating system (during which you can do other things for the most part).

As far as major brands ive been leaning on the lenovo lately. Their cases (non slim) tend to have a lot of room if you want to slap in a more powerful graphics card, whereas dell sometimes has cases that are very compact but restricted, but that varies from model to model so...

I havent been liking hp as of late, keep getting issues with them more than any other brand at the moment. Plus hp has been preloading pcs with tons of junk. Both Dell and Lenovo have been reliable so far for me. Also I would avoid compaq (owned by HP), emachine, and any other 'cheap to sell' brand.

Building it yourself your warrantees will last longer without any extra charge, the only thing is you need to disassemble and go through the return process with the manufacturer yourself (RMA).

Draygo

Also that list linked above includes the most powerful processer for your dollar on the market right now. The i5-2500k is a real workhorse and can handle everything you can throw at it. If you get the i5-2500 instead of the k version you lose overclocking but you save 10-20 bucks. Also wakka linked a pretty powerful graphics card, you can simply go with a much cheaper one for now if you arnt using it for games and knock off 200$ off of wakas price.

Djeet

It would seem to me that since the primary use of this machine being CS5, 3Ds max and zbrush, and gaming is secondary (Minecraft being the only game specified) with no indication that he's interested in overclocking, then Iruka might actually benefit by getting a i7-2600 and dialing down the GPU to a 560 or 6870.

Edit: Not that Minecraft needs such a powerful GPU, but I wouldn't know what kind of GPU to recommend for a machine that's primarily for rendering and other pro graphics work.

wakkawa

The parts were all from newegg, so they only took about a week or so. Most of the parts were all in the same package. Was only 3 boxes and they all arrived on the same day.

I personally got this case:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144140

Replaced the included PSU with a different PSU as the one that came with it was super shitty. The build time for it was only a couple hours. I wouldn't recommend that case however. It's really open for a microATX and had a sliding tray the mobo went on. It also has some pretty good airflow with a 120mm fan. So building in it was awesome. The problem though is the front USBs broke, and the audio in the front was really shitty as well. Materials are pretty cheap too.

The graphics card was so I could play BF3 on high. So yeah you could get a cheaper one if you wanted. I did a lot of research on the parts I was putting in it. Basically looking at benchmark after benchmark to get the best parts for my money.

Iruka

That does sound good.... I could also maybe afford a small SSD and get a monitor now instead of having to wait. goddammit how did I get sold on this.

Let me do some research and make a full list of parts, then you all can tell me if my set up works. If this is a hassle I will scorn all of your internet handles for at least a few weeks, I hope you know.

Wakk, with such a compact case, is cooling an issue? What constitutes a good PSU? I'd probably want a more hardy case in trade for like the absolute cream of the video cards, but I'd also like to not worry about doing this in another year, if I happen to not have the funds. So getting good stuff now and not skimping is fine, 3dsMax 2013 is right around the corner.

wakkawa

There is always the chance you will have to RMA a part. Soooooooooooo yeaaaaahhh.
Newegg has a great return policy though!

I haven't had any problems with cooling in mine. It has a lot of fans for such a small case. Also you don't have to go micro. I just did it so I could put it in a suitcase if I had to.

A good psu is generally an antec. 500w psu - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371035 I think that's what I have. Normally if the psu costs less than $50 it's going to be crappy. And another odd way to tell if it's a good PSU is by weight. No idea why, but the cheap ones don't weigh anything.

The PSU, or mobo are the parts most likely to be DOA it seems.

The mobo I linked has no on board video card, so you have to get one.

EDIT: Also appears the ram I linked wasn't the same one I got. The MOBO supports only 1333, so something like this would work better I suppose:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178333

MrDelish

I wouldn't recommend getting an SSD unless it's 160GB+, which are $200+ right now. I have one at 160 GB and it's nearly full with what seems like very little on it.

Iruka

I would probably get a small one for the specific purpose of backing up my art to, not as a main drive. I currently have two 500gb externals, so Im not really hurting for space, but I am hurting for stable back up for emergencies.

DirtyDirtyVagrant

May I recommend a video card.

Now, I'm not sure if this is kosher for a micto ATX case (I'm not really sure I'd go with that form factor in any case), but I have one of these -from a different manufacturer - and it's amazing. I'm relatively sure that your requirements are well within the capabilities of this card, and it's super-inexpensive, as video cards go.

MrDelish

Iruka wrote:

I would probably get a small one for the specific purpose of backing up my art to, not as a main drive. I currently have two 500gb externals, so Im not really hurting for space, but I am hurting for stable back up for emergencies.

Two small hard drives can easily be powered by a desktop and would be more than reliable and cost less than an SSD, though.

Iruka

reading reviews I suppose SSDs are less reliable than I had heard when they first came out, thats unfortunate.


So the only place to put my computer has no access to an ethernet port, I need a wifi connection. I hear USB dongles are awful. What are my options for that if I build a system?

Gaslight

Iruka wrote:

reading reviews I suppose SSDs are less reliable than I had heard when they first came out, thats unfortunate.


So the only place to put my computer has no access to an ethernet port, I need a wifi connection. I hear USB dongles are awful. What are my options for that if I build a system?

Just get a PCI wireless card. A perfectly fine one will cost about $20 at the most. I use one in my box since I was also in a position where my other option was drilling holes in multiple floors/ceilings and running about 40 feet of ethernet cable through them.

rts

Build it build it build it!

It's pretty easy to put a system together yourself. Just get a nice clean workspace, a bowl or cup for screws and follow directions. You will probably find it to be a very satisfying experience honestly.

Mr.Ritz

Built it your self and if you pick the right parts you can usually land 3 year warranties on a good amount of the hardware.

Iruka

Okay, so lets look at this cart here, Tell me if this set up would work:

Case................. Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower
Power Supply.... Antec EarthWatts EA-500D Green 500W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V
MotherBoard..... Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
Processor.......... Intel Core i5-2500 Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2000
Memory............ PNY Optima 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (x2 for 16gb)
Harddrive.......... WD 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5 Bare Drive
Video Card........ EVGA GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
Wireless............. Intel Wi-Fi Link Wireless Adapter IEEE 802.11a/b/g, IEEE802.11n Draft Mini PCI Express Up to 300Mbps
DVD burner........ LITE-ON DVD Burner
Windows............ Windows 7 64bit

That in the cart is at the cap (1k with shipping) admittedly with the videocard and the 16gigs of ram it is better than the dell equivalent price wise. I still need a monitor, and keyboard, though. Is everything in this setup compatible with everything else?

bowen

Everything appears to be good from a casual glance, the big contenders are CPU and mobo + ram, but you look like you did some research into compatibility there but I didn't look too deeply at that.

Also moes' subforum of G&T has a good CPU thing, you might want to pass it by there, they have good knowledge. You do a lot of graphics work so someone there might know what's better for graphics. I imagine i5 is fine.

rts

Is that wireless card for notebooks?

Iruka

Mmm, I Guess it is, I didn't notice that it says mini PCI express and not just PCI express, I was shopping for the intel brand name... there's a D-link for 50bucks, and this rosewill for 25 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166063 Is rosewill an okay manufacturer?

MrDelish

Iruka wrote:

Mmm, I Guess it is, I didn't notice that it says mini PCI express and not just PCI express, I was shopping for the intel brand name... there's a D-link for 50bucks, and this rosewill for 25 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166063 Is rosewill an okay manufacturer?

I always look at the reviews regardless of manufacturer but that Rosewill adapter reviewed really well.

Eat it You Nasty Pig.

I have a USB wireless dongle (netgear, fwiw) and I've been happy with it. It has the occasional hiccups like any wireless setup has, but other than that it's been great (plus I can unplug it and use it with my netbook if I wanna.)

Also you might consider stepping up to a P67 mobo and an i5-2500k; the 2500ks can overclock to 3.8 or so without breaking a sweat (easily above 4.0 with aftermarket cooling.) You only have to spend an extra 50-70 bucks for a pretty big performance increase, and you don't need the H67's onboard video anyway.

Iruka

Unfortunately budget constraints mean that going 70-100 bucks over 1k will equal me not being able to purchase a good, color correct monitor for another month, which simply cant happen. I'm getting 90% of this purchase from my dad, but while the budget is reasonable its not very flexable.

I dont think I need to overclock it, either. Minecraft isnt the most demanding of games, and as far as I know, Photoshop benefits the most from the simple fact of having multiple cores in the processor and obs and goobs of ram. I do most of my gaming on the console side, these days, and even then its barely a few hours a week.

DirtyDirtyVagrant

If that's the case, then you don't need a GTX 560. You don't need anywhere near that kind of power for what you intend to do. You might do this one and save yourself about $60.

Djeet

And roll any savings into an i7-2600, as HT actually benefits 3D rendering.

Rye

• I would recommend an internal WiFi card. I've said it before - the external USB ones get hot and/or die much faster.
• Check these identical parts on Amazon. The money saved on shipping and taxes can save you 20-30% on equally priced items, on top of Amazon's stuff being competitively priced. For example, a couple seconds of searching for your hard drive shows it for $10 less and with no taxes ($20 or more saved on just one item).
• Your hard drive is 3gb/s and you board allows for 6bg/s. It's a tiny issue of perhaps slightly overpaying for something you won't be using. The performance gains on 6gb/s are negligible.
• You'd never know the difference between 16gb and 8gb of memory if you're just using Photoshop and minecraft.

Iruka

Well I might play skyrim, its just not important. Cutting it down to 8gb of ram for now I guess wouldnt hurt, it'll be easy to spend the 30 bucks later. For wifi I plan to use the internal card as my BF has an external usb one and its terrible.

I switched out the processor for an i7-2600 and the video card for the MSI one DDV just linked and the carts at $983, with no monitor or keyboard of course. That can be done. Right now the shipping is only 10bucks for the whole lot, too.

Rye

With taxes you'll be paying an extra ~$100 at checkout. I recently purchased about 1/2 my parts on newegg and the others on Amazon because the prices were lower on some and I didn't have to pay tax.

Just throwing it out there. It's not necessary and you're not getting raped if you don't use amazon.

Iruka

Cool, I will keep that In mind when I'm actually buying, since i'll probably get my keyboard and and some other stuff on the amazon side.

So, right now the build is at
Case................. Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower
Power Supply.... Antec EarthWatts EA-500D Green 500W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V
MotherBoard..... Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
Processor.......... Intel i7-2600 3.4GHz 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 2000 BX80623I72600
Memory............ PNY Optima 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
Harddrive.......... WD 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5 Bare Drive
Video Card........ MSI N550GTX-Ti Cyclone OC GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI
Wireless............. Intel Wi-Fi Link Wireless Adapter IEEE 802.11a/b/g, IEEE802.11n Draft Mini PCI Express Up to 300Mbps
DVD burner........ LITE-ON DVD Burner
Windows............ Windows 7 64bit


Other stuff (May not have to buy a keyboard and for the most part I use my tablet mouse/a cheap usb mouse for games
Monitor..............http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176200 (maybe? I've liked most HP displays. Alot of cheaper monitors but good colors isnt something I should skimp on, then again I dont want to throw down 400 if I dont have to. )
Keyboard...........http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126043

bowen

HP makes solid displays, I think acer is the best at the moment though. The comparable 20" version is $80 something from acer. I've got two ~21" acers that are amazing.

Keyboard is solid, if on the expensive side. I have a cheapo $15 one from logitech though.

minirhyder

I got this keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823155044
And it's a piece of wonderful. It's not backlit though, but can't expect it to be for the price.

I have the Rosewill case and it's pretty great, but there isn't a whole lot of space for cable management, so keep that in mind.

Siska

May want to look into getting a gold certified PSU. They can extend the life of your computer.
Here are 2 Rosewill ones:
450w - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 - $69.99 + $5.99 shipping.
550w - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182068 - $79.99 + FREE shipping (so $4 more than the above.)

*Edit* Also, in case you are unfamiliar with newegg and haven't noticed, they frequently have combo deals and other special offers (for instance I got a free $20 DVD burner with my MOBO purchase 4 months ago). First thing I noticed on your list is that you get $5-10 off if you buy the motherboard you chose and Windows 7 together as a combo. Mobo+Win7 home edition link - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.791361.13-121-506
It can add up, so keep a list of several possibles and get the one that has the best deal on the day of purchase (deals change every month). Mobo/ram/CPU/Video combos are very common and can be +$20 off.

illig

i'm going to go against what most people recommended - just to give an alternate opinion

1. how comfortable are you troubleshooting and do you mind spending time on fixing your own machine?

when i was younger (erm... although i'm not that old now) i wouldn't mind at all... but now, i really appreciate being able to call Apple or Lenovo and have them troubleshoot and replace something rather than doing it myself after a long work week. Basically, i want everything to work b/c my time is more valuable to now. Look through the forums at the number of posts that start with "the computer beeps , and fans turn on, but i don't get a picture - HALP!". Do you want to do this?

If you don't mind - roll your own.

If you prefer not to - have someone build/test your machine and get a warranty. Note that almost any Dell, Lenovo, Alienware, Origin, Falcon North West, etc. PC will be just as customizable as anything you build yourself.

2. focus on the components that affect you the most - and you'll notice most.

You picked an old timey spinny platter HD when the performance of an SSD is a tremendous, and immediately noticeable upgrade in absolutely everything you do on the PC. If you use a PC with a modern SSD, you will not be able to go back to a normal HD (it's like going back to a Pentium II after using a modern i7 ). And you don't have to sacrifice storage - get a 60-120GB SSD for a boot drive ($100-200) and then a mechanical HD for storage and programs.

You're staying with your "cheap monitor" when that's your primary interface with the machine! Spend the cash on a new gorgeous large HD display and you'll be glad you did.

You're staying with your current KBD and mouse - are they high quality components or some freebie Dell items? Again - this is what you constantly touch/use when on the PC. A keyboard with wonderful tactile feedback, and a high quality laser mouse (or a multitouch touchpad?) are a great investment.

Honestly - you'd probably be just as happy if you kept your current PC, threw in an SSD boot drive (keep your current HD for data, applications), added a newer video card, got a new screen (keep your old one as a secondary - 2 screens are better than 1!), and upgraded your kbd/mouse.

<Edit>

OK, so here's what i'd recommend, assuming it's OK with your current setup:

1. SSD - 60-120GB SSD with a reliable controller - $100-200

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227759

2. Display

A. Holy grail for graphics work - a 2560 x 1440 (WQHD) display - $1K

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824260038&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Monitors+-+LCD+Flat+Panel-_-DELL-_-24260038

B. Something reasonable for mere mortals - a 1920 x 1200 display in 24-26" size - $300-400

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176174&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Monitors+-+LCD+Flat+Panel-_-Hewlett-Packard-_-24176174

3. Input devices - $50-100/each

up to you really, but the apple touchpads are amazing

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC380LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA1Mg

KBD is really up to you, but don't cheap out

wakkawa

I have two of those DELL monitors at work.

They are nice.

Iruka

If My dad pitches in more than I anticipate, I will spring for a nicer dell monitor.

Illig, thanks for the alternative opinions I appreciate them. Right now I actually dont have a PC, I have a laptop, and there is nothing to salvage from it. My most important piece of hardware is my tablet, which I just replaced with a shiney new one, and it comes with a nice mouse and I use the tablet itself for browsing. keyboards and mice outside of that are secondary, I don't do a whole lot of typing, anyway.

I'll also probably be saving up for further purchases later, something I couldn't really do with the laptop. I just need to get the purchase done within the next week or so, because my lack of a computer that can run cs5 is getting in the way of my freelance. I can build a dream system later in life, right now I have to be practical with the set in stone budget. As for the trouble shooting, I can handle it, and for the last 3 years my laptop has been warranty-less and I've been diagnosing/repairing it myself anyway. If I'm willing to take 3 broken ipods and combine them until I have a working one, I should probably be just as willing to be hands on with my computer. In 5 years god willing, I will only build a computer because thats what I want to do.

i will consider a SDD for a boot drive, though. It all highly depends on my dads wallet, which I cant control.

oh, and @Siska thanks for the heads up, I will go through my cart and make sure there are no good deals Im missing out on when its time to pull the trigger. It will probably be another week, hopfully I wont have to completely re-budget if these prices fluctuate.

XArchangelX

I use this:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/guides/2011/12/ars-technica-system-guide-december-2011.ars

And just upgrade individual pieces as the budget allows.