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Video Game Industry Thread: February's done, go to the new thread

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Posts

  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Ford Nation's Finest Crack DenRegistered User regular
    I get occasional disapproving looks on Toronto public transit for taking out a gaming portable... usually from middle aged women who probably also disapprove of my lack of makeup and any number of other things about me. I'm much more likely to have positive interactions with people because of my game devices. I've had a number of people ask me what I'm playing, etc., and I've occasionally chatted about Pokemon with some of the sheltered workshop guys who take the subway to work and back. They're way more fun to talk to than disapproving middle aged matrons, anyway. :)

    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
    3DS Friend Code: 3823-8693-5976
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  • minor incidentminor incident a crow, a scavenger type Registered User regular
    So, the ipad 3 is getting a lot of hype.

    Cool.

    People seem to be under the misconception that it's a quad-core device though. When it isn't, the CPU is a modified A5 (Hence the name,) which the iphone 4S uses, and its using a quad core powerVR gpu. Which is also what the iphone 4S uses. except its the quad core variant and probably clocked slightly higher.

    So, basically, the ipad 3 is still just an iphone with a bigger screen.

    Yet people are going to buy it. For 600$+

    This is about as bad as how apple rebranded the shuffle and ipod touch as 5th generation and used identical parts, some down to using even the same batch with identical serial numbers.

    For reference, my phone uses a proper quad-core ARM9 (The big brother to the base model the A5 is based off of.) and a quad core GPU based off of the powerVR (Again, the big brother of the powervr in the iphone 4, which again is probably the same basic design used in the GPU for the ipad 3.)

    I'll wait til someone buys one and takes it apart to verify, of course, since its vague speculation based on apple production deals, and such. Still...

    Man, Apple rips people off pretty hard, if this is the case.

    I'm also somewhat leery of their tegra vs A5 penis waving, considering most benchmarks showed the A5 barely inching out the first generation tegra 3.

    itt people don't understand what a tablet is for

    I love people who reply and simultaneously prove their goosery and add nothing to the statement at hand.

    The point, good sir, is that at this juncture the ipad 3 is looking to be running slightly rebranded parts from a year ago at a premium price. Which has actually been Apple's business model for a couple of years now if you actually pop the devices open and look at the glittery bits inside. If they can get away with it, that's fine. More power to them for preying on their less then informed consumers. It's more just a point of curiosity to me.

    Eh. The biggest factor with a tablet is the software it runs, and how well it runs that software. Benchmarks are almost completely unimportant, as is comparing processors and GPUs. If you want the games and apps that iOS offers, you get an iPad. If you want the games (heh) and apps that Android offers you get a... I don't know, a, uh... Kindle Fire? Galaxy tablet?

    The most important hardware aspect--by far--of a tablet is the screen, and Apple has just made a huuuuuge upgrade there.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Robes wrote: »
    I can see him doing that as a form of a joke due to the anticipation of Skyrim and not a sincere love and bias of the game.

    Except he also posts on quite a few forums. Even if that video was a joke, his unbridled excitement and praise of a game he had not even played was documented. He clearly went in to the game looking to love it. which calls his critical eye into question.

    His decision to post that video calls his decision making into question, too.

    What critical eye? Every review is biased. Most reviews aren't KillScreen material or anything. They're a review of a commercial product from a trusted source: if you agree with a reviewer's past reviews, he gives you a good barometer on what to expect on each new review. We just had some slagging on a reviewer for playing a game with a stated dislike, and now for elated joy? Can a reviewer not play a game they've waited for and still find the faults?

    I'd rather honest passion than stoicism in my reviewers. I'd personally hand games to reviewers with an affinity for the title they're reviewing. Much like Sterling over at Destructoid opted out of reviewing the later AC games because they were definitely not his thing.

    Critical eye does not imply a complete lack of bias - every single opinion is biased. Critical eye refers to the degree in which a reviewer will scrutinize a game. I don't trust someone who has made up their minds about a game to display a level of scrutiny that I find valuable. And I'd certainly say that, given everything within the last 2 pages, that NONE of these outlets are trusted sources to me.

    If all you got out of these two pages are that reviewers can't like a game, nor can they not dislike a game, then you missed the entire point of these last two pages worth of posts. It's not that they liked or disliked the game, is that they weren't critical with their assessment of it, and either let their bias hang out so blatantly that you question their degree of scrutiny, or flat out didn't play the game at all.

    I don't want passion out of my game reviews. I can get unlimited sources of that from every forum on the web. I'd rather have a good discussion about what the game does right, and what it does wrong, without trying to boil the argument down to "this game sucks" or "this game rules." Which is pretty much why I'm very against review scores in the first place.

    What he does, how he acts and what he writes is completely separate.

    I haven't read or watched the review in question, so it is completely possible that he wrote something that is questionable. But you are talking as if they are all connected all the time, using these examples as "proofs". They don't have to be. Assuming so is ad hominem.

    I'm not defending him. I don't give a flying whatsit about that guy. I'm critiquing your logic.

    Morninglord on
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  • minor incidentminor incident a crow, a scavenger type Registered User regular
    skeldare wrote: »
    subedii wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/scroll-of-resurrection?ref=/wow/
    So the rumor about Blizzard giving away free mounts for inviting a person back to WoW was correct. I guess it was only a matter of time before they started using social gaming ideas to keep people in the game. Now they just need to start giving people special powers for the number of friends they have in this game...

    I don't keep up with WoW, but between the threads title and this post... has WoW been on the decline or something?

    Yes, over the last year or so they've gone from 12 million active players to 10 million active players.

    And half of those two million lost subs were over a single quarter; the whole "subscribe to WoW for a year and get Diablo 3 free!" deal was done in response to the drop in subs. I've heard that the deal counteracted the decline for a while, but I would not be surprised to see WoW down another 1-2 million players come their next earnings report.

    And yeah, 8-10 million players is still a lot and more than pretty much everyone else, but the sudden and sharp decline just drives the point home that WoW was pretty much nothing but an anomaly.

    ?? It more says that the game is finally running out of steam. You can only milk a game for so long before people get tired of the same old, same old.

    Yeah it was an outlier in the sense that it far surpassed expectations of it and all other MMO's, and other MMO's should never treat it as a reference for how many subscribers they're supposed to have.

    WoW has been a phenomenal success, but the decline doesn't mean anything more than like with all games, people will eventually move on. All MMO's are eventually going to die, sooner or later, that it had this kind of run to date is pretty incredible.

    Personally I think it would be wise for Blizzard not to fight this too hard, and just focus on cracking on with whatever next MMO project they're building. Although then again, it's not like anything they've done so far really requires more than a few state tweaks here and there.

    I would love for Blizzard to make another Lost Vikings game, personally. But it'll never happen.

    I think I would die of joy if that ever happened.

    Rock & Roll Racing, motherfuckers.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    I get occasional disapproving looks on Toronto public transit for taking out a gaming portable... usually from middle aged women who probably also disapprove of my lack of makeup and any number of other things about me. I'm much more likely to have positive interactions with people because of my game devices. I've had a number of people ask me what I'm playing, etc., and I've occasionally chatted about Pokemon with some of the sheltered workshop guys who take the subway to work and back. They're way more fun to talk to than disapproving middle aged matrons, anyway. :)

    I just can't see any adult giving that much of a shit about what someone else is doing in their free time. I guess it stems from when I was in college, though, and I'd see people doing everything and anything on the bus, from writing reports on laptops, to brushing their teeth, to vomiting, to even having sex. So I quickly learned that whatever anybody does on the bus is their own prerogative.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    I really think the Ipad thing is turning into a whole 5 yard elf PC argument.
    I get a warmth in the cockles of my heart when someone ressurrects that meme.

    steam_sig.png
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    So, the ipad 3 is getting a lot of hype.

    Cool.

    People seem to be under the misconception that it's a quad-core device though. When it isn't, the CPU is a modified A5 (Hence the name,) which the iphone 4S uses, and its using a quad core powerVR gpu. Which is also what the iphone 4S uses. except its the quad core variant and probably clocked slightly higher.

    So, basically, the ipad 3 is still just an iphone with a bigger screen.

    Yet people are going to buy it. For 600$+

    This is about as bad as how apple rebranded the shuffle and ipod touch as 5th generation and used identical parts, some down to using even the same batch with identical serial numbers.

    For reference, my phone uses a proper quad-core ARM9 (The big brother to the base model the A5 is based off of.) and a quad core GPU based off of the powerVR (Again, the big brother of the powervr in the iphone 4, which again is probably the same basic design used in the GPU for the ipad 3.)

    I'll wait til someone buys one and takes it apart to verify, of course, since its vague speculation based on apple production deals, and such. Still...

    Man, Apple rips people off pretty hard, if this is the case.

    I'm also somewhat leery of their tegra vs A5 penis waving, considering most benchmarks showed the A5 barely inching out the first generation tegra 3.

    itt people don't understand what a tablet is for

    I love people who reply and simultaneously prove their goosery and add nothing to the statement at hand.

    The point, good sir, is that at this juncture the ipad 3 is looking to be running slightly rebranded parts from a year ago at a premium price. Which has actually been Apple's business model for a couple of years now if you actually pop the devices open and look at the glittery bits inside. If they can get away with it, that's fine. More power to them for preying on their less then informed consumers. It's more just a point of curiosity to me.

    ...but what if people genuinely enjoy the device, even if it's "underpowered?"

    3DS: 0344-9335-6762
  • Shady3011Shady3011 they cant troll you if there dead Registered User regular
    Peewi wrote: »
    Shady, I like that you're reposting that stuff here, but it's kinda confusing until I realized that the Kotaku guy is quoting someone else and you didn't copy over the quote tags.

    But yeah, my impression from the previous post you brought here was that he doesn't know how 4chan works.

    Yeah. Sorry about that. Nesting quotes ain't what it used to be around here.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Robes wrote: »
    I can see him doing that as a form of a joke due to the anticipation of Skyrim and not a sincere love and bias of the game.

    Except he also posts on quite a few forums. Even if that video was a joke, his unbridled excitement and praise of a game he had not even played was documented. He clearly went in to the game looking to love it. which calls his critical eye into question.

    His decision to post that video calls his decision making into question, too.

    What critical eye? Every review is biased. Most reviews aren't KillScreen material or anything. They're a review of a commercial product from a trusted source: if you agree with a reviewer's past reviews, he gives you a good barometer on what to expect on each new review. We just had some slagging on a reviewer for playing a game with a stated dislike, and now for elated joy? Can a reviewer not play a game they've waited for and still find the faults?

    I'd rather honest passion than stoicism in my reviewers. I'd personally hand games to reviewers with an affinity for the title they're reviewing. Much like Sterling over at Destructoid opted out of reviewing the later AC games because they were definitely not his thing.

    Critical eye does not imply a complete lack of bias - every single opinion is biased. Critical eye refers to the degree in which a reviewer will scrutinize a game. I don't trust someone who has made up their minds about a game to display a level of scrutiny that I find valuable. And I'd certainly say that, given everything within the last 2 pages, that NONE of these outlets are trusted sources to me.

    If all you got out of these two pages are that reviewers can't like a game, nor can they not dislike a game, then you missed the entire point of these last two pages worth of posts. It's not that they liked or disliked the game, is that they weren't critical with their assessment of it, and either let their bias hang out so blatantly that you question their degree of scrutiny, or flat out didn't play the game at all.

    I don't want passion out of my game reviews. I can get unlimited sources of that from every forum on the web. I'd rather have a good discussion about what the game does right, and what it does wrong, without trying to boil the argument down to "this game sucks" or "this game rules." Which is pretty much why I'm very against review scores in the first place.

    What he does, how he acts and what he writes is completely separate.

    I haven't read or watched the review in question, so it is completely possible that he wrote something that is questionable. But you are talking as if they are all connected all the time, using these examples as "proofs". They don't have to be. Assuming so is ad hominem.

    I'm not defending him. I don't give a flying whatsit about that guy. I'm critiquing your logic.

    Except we had pages of discussion about the flaws in his reviewing process. Refer to his review on Neir, and how he felt compelled to write an entire review based off of the very opening of the game.

    And I disagree that how one acts and how one writes are completely separate. When you spend hundreds of hours on forums gushing in anticipation about an upcoming game, film yourself dancing with the game before playing it, and subsequently write a lavish review of the game, your per-conceived notions are going to seep into your writing to some degree. If this guy had previously displayed considerable restraint, then maybe you might be more forgiving, but since he already had another high profile, controversial review which already called into question his reviewing process, why would you give him the benefit of the doubt?

    And understand that I'm not slamming this guy specifically. I'm not saying "oh that justin, he's a prick, fuck his reviews personally." I'm using him more as an example of the flaws which pervade game reviews, and game journalism, as a whole. He's not an anomaly, he's just a very public example of a lot of problems with the process.

  • skeldareskeldare Time for adventure! Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2012
    skeldare wrote: »
    subedii wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/scroll-of-resurrection?ref=/wow/
    So the rumor about Blizzard giving away free mounts for inviting a person back to WoW was correct. I guess it was only a matter of time before they started using social gaming ideas to keep people in the game. Now they just need to start giving people special powers for the number of friends they have in this game...

    I don't keep up with WoW, but between the threads title and this post... has WoW been on the decline or something?

    Yes, over the last year or so they've gone from 12 million active players to 10 million active players.

    And half of those two million lost subs were over a single quarter; the whole "subscribe to WoW for a year and get Diablo 3 free!" deal was done in response to the drop in subs. I've heard that the deal counteracted the decline for a while, but I would not be surprised to see WoW down another 1-2 million players come their next earnings report.

    And yeah, 8-10 million players is still a lot and more than pretty much everyone else, but the sudden and sharp decline just drives the point home that WoW was pretty much nothing but an anomaly.

    ?? It more says that the game is finally running out of steam. You can only milk a game for so long before people get tired of the same old, same old.

    Yeah it was an outlier in the sense that it far surpassed expectations of it and all other MMO's, and other MMO's should never treat it as a reference for how many subscribers they're supposed to have.

    WoW has been a phenomenal success, but the decline doesn't mean anything more than like with all games, people will eventually move on. All MMO's are eventually going to die, sooner or later, that it had this kind of run to date is pretty incredible.

    Personally I think it would be wise for Blizzard not to fight this too hard, and just focus on cracking on with whatever next MMO project they're building. Although then again, it's not like anything they've done so far really requires more than a few state tweaks here and there.

    I would love for Blizzard to make another Lost Vikings game, personally. But it'll never happen.

    I think I would die of joy if that ever happened.

    Rock & Roll Racing, motherfuckers.

    There are so many Blizzard games that should be remade/rebooted/rereleased. It seems like since Starcraft came out, they've been churning out the same thing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment#Titles

    Edit: Well, maybe not that many.

    skeldare on
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  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo HAPPY WAALUWEEN Registered User, Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    TSR, you do know what a Conflict of Interest actually is, right?

    eG9gdum.gif
  • Shady3011Shady3011 they cant troll you if there dead Registered User regular
    That's when you have an interesting conflict, right?

  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Critical eye does not imply a complete lack of bias - every single opinion is biased. Critical eye refers to the degree in which a reviewer will scrutinize a game. I don't trust someone who has made up their minds about a game to display a level of scrutiny that I find valuable. And I'd certainly say that, given everything within the last 2 pages, that NONE of these outlets are trusted sources to me.

    His love of the game can inform what he writes, but you've presupposed that it makes of the entirety of what he writes. False assumption.

    The fact that you don't trust any of the outlets is your decision, and a valid one.
    If all you got out of these two pages are that reviewers can't like a game, nor can they not dislike a game, then you missed the entire point of these last two pages worth of posts. It's not that they liked or disliked the game, is that they weren't critical with their assessment of it, and either let their bias hang out so blatantly that you question their degree of scrutiny, or flat out didn't play the game at all.

    Out of the last two pages, all I've seen is the Nier example. That's a poor review if it hinged on that fact alone, but pointing out that it's non-intuitive (as some here have asserted) is completely fair game.
    I don't want passion out of my game reviews.

    Then we agree to disagree.
    I can get unlimited sources of that from every forum on the web. I'd rather have a good discussion about what the game does right, and what it does wrong, without trying to boil the argument down to "this game sucks" or "this game rules." Which is pretty much why I'm very against review scores in the first place.

    This is when you get into fuzzy territory. Does right by what metric? Stacked against other titles in the genre? On the same system? Up against the intentions of the developer? On a pure novelty basis? For example, a game can be technically poor, but end up being enjoyable because it does clearly convey the developer's intent. If a sequel has perfected the gameplay of its predecessors, but it boring to the reviewer, which way does that review go?

    The answers to those questions are wholly dependent on the reviewer/critic. Some hated Dragon Age II for the changes in gameplay, while others defend it for it characterization and some of the themes it tackles. It's a decisive game that has lead to way more written criticism than other blockbuster titles. I like it that way. Much like the Eurogamer reviewer who tackled Uncharted 3. He wondered if perhaps the was too much like a theme park ride on rails, and less like an interactive experience. He gave it an 8, but for some, the game did everything right. Whose viewpoint is correct?

    (Out on errands so may not answer immediately)

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  • skeldareskeldare Time for adventure! Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Call of Duty: Conflict of Interest

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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, the ipad 3 is getting a lot of hype.

    Cool.

    People seem to be under the misconception that it's a quad-core device though. When it isn't, the CPU is a modified A5 (Hence the name,) which the iphone 4S uses, and its using a quad core powerVR gpu. Which is also what the iphone 4S uses. except its the quad core variant and probably clocked slightly higher.

    So, basically, the ipad 3 is still just an iphone with a bigger screen.

    Yet people are going to buy it. For 600$+

    This is about as bad as how apple rebranded the shuffle and ipod touch as 5th generation and used identical parts, some down to using even the same batch with identical serial numbers.

    For reference, my phone uses a proper quad-core ARM9 (The big brother to the base model the A5 is based off of.) and a quad core GPU based off of the powerVR (Again, the big brother of the powervr in the iphone 4, which again is probably the same basic design used in the GPU for the ipad 3.)

    I'll wait til someone buys one and takes it apart to verify, of course, since its vague speculation based on apple production deals, and such. Still...

    Man, Apple rips people off pretty hard, if this is the case.

    I'm also somewhat leery of their tegra vs A5 penis waving, considering most benchmarks showed the A5 barely inching out the first generation tegra 3.

    itt people don't understand what a tablet is for

    I love people who reply and simultaneously prove their goosery and add nothing to the statement at hand.

    The point, good sir, is that at this juncture the ipad 3 is looking to be running slightly rebranded parts from a year ago at a premium price. Which has actually been Apple's business model for a couple of years now if you actually pop the devices open and look at the glittery bits inside. If they can get away with it, that's fine. More power to them for preying on their less then informed consumers. It's more just a point of curiosity to me.

    ...but what if people genuinely enjoy the device, even if it's "underpowered?"

    I don't think his concern was about performance or people's enjoyment, but rather the pricing. He feels the ipad should be priced according to the tech it uses. The price point the ipad currently uses is based off of its demand.

    I'll personally spend $500 on a gaming computer that is 28 years old, so clearly this is a subject on which I can't really speak about. But I do think both sides of the argument have valid points.

  • EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    I really think the Ipad thing is turning into a whole 5 yard elf PC argument.
    I get a warmth in the cockles of my heart when someone ressurrects that meme.

    I don't understand what this means. Can someone fill me in?

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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    TSR, you do know what a Conflict of Interest actually is, right?

    Yeah, I do - any set of outside motives which could compromise the integrity of of ones actions. Do you think conflicts of interest can only be monetary or something? I'd think rampant fanboyism is definitely at odds with the task of writing an objective review.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    On the one hand, dancing with the game case is probably something you should keep to yourself, and not post to the internet for all to see. It does kinda undermine your professionalism just a tad.

    On the other hand, why the hell should it matter with regards to your review? Who gives a shit what you do when you're off the clock?

    "In my professional opinion, this game is good. You should buy it."
    "Yeah, but you danced with the case. Fuck yo' opinion."

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So, the ipad 3 is getting a lot of hype.

    Cool.

    People seem to be under the misconception that it's a quad-core device though. When it isn't, the CPU is a modified A5 (Hence the name,) which the iphone 4S uses, and its using a quad core powerVR gpu. Which is also what the iphone 4S uses. except its the quad core variant and probably clocked slightly higher.

    So, basically, the ipad 3 is still just an iphone with a bigger screen.

    Yet people are going to buy it. For 600$+

    This is about as bad as how apple rebranded the shuffle and ipod touch as 5th generation and used identical parts, some down to using even the same batch with identical serial numbers.

    For reference, my phone uses a proper quad-core ARM9 (The big brother to the base model the A5 is based off of.) and a quad core GPU based off of the powerVR (Again, the big brother of the powervr in the iphone 4, which again is probably the same basic design used in the GPU for the ipad 3.)

    I'll wait til someone buys one and takes it apart to verify, of course, since its vague speculation based on apple production deals, and such. Still...

    Man, Apple rips people off pretty hard, if this is the case.

    I'm also somewhat leery of their tegra vs A5 penis waving, considering most benchmarks showed the A5 barely inching out the first generation tegra 3.

    itt people don't understand what a tablet is for

    I love people who reply and simultaneously prove their goosery and add nothing to the statement at hand.

    The point, good sir, is that at this juncture the ipad 3 is looking to be running slightly rebranded parts from a year ago at a premium price. Which has actually been Apple's business model for a couple of years now if you actually pop the devices open and look at the glittery bits inside. If they can get away with it, that's fine. More power to them for preying on their less then informed consumers. It's more just a point of curiosity to me.

    ...but what if people genuinely enjoy the device, even if it's "underpowered?"

    It isn't even really about being underpowered or anything. It's more about the spin they put on it to continually hype up their products. I mean you watch these keynotes and they talk about it as if it's all kinds of high tech and bleeding edge when it's simply not. It's a bunch of tech repurposed from Samsung's (As all sources I can find seem to indicate them as their suppliers.) older run of Galaxy devices.

    The screen is great, and if people are happy with the device, more power to them. This is just more me observing the usual stint of Apple selling off name alone, when most other products would be dissected and people would be bemoaning the innards almost instantly. (See any android device launch and its almost immediately a comparison between chipsets and similar.)

    I suppose its just the state of their consumer base when people will gobble up a device without question, not even wondering what it is. Except 'New ipad'.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    Robes wrote: »
    I can see him doing that as a form of a joke due to the anticipation of Skyrim and not a sincere love and bias of the game.

    Except he also posts on quite a few forums. Even if that video was a joke, his unbridled excitement and praise of a game he had not even played was documented. He clearly went in to the game looking to love it. which calls his critical eye into question.

    His decision to post that video calls his decision making into question, too.

    What critical eye? Every review is biased. Most reviews aren't KillScreen material or anything. They're a review of a commercial product from a trusted source: if you agree with a reviewer's past reviews, he gives you a good barometer on what to expect on each new review. We just had some slagging on a reviewer for playing a game with a stated dislike, and now for elated joy? Can a reviewer not play a game they've waited for and still find the faults?

    I'd rather honest passion than stoicism in my reviewers. I'd personally hand games to reviewers with an affinity for the title they're reviewing. Much like Sterling over at Destructoid opted out of reviewing the later AC games because they were definitely not his thing.

    Critical eye does not imply a complete lack of bias - every single opinion is biased. Critical eye refers to the degree in which a reviewer will scrutinize a game. I don't trust someone who has made up their minds about a game to display a level of scrutiny that I find valuable. And I'd certainly say that, given everything within the last 2 pages, that NONE of these outlets are trusted sources to me.

    If all you got out of these two pages are that reviewers can't like a game, nor can they not dislike a game, then you missed the entire point of these last two pages worth of posts. It's not that they liked or disliked the game, is that they weren't critical with their assessment of it, and either let their bias hang out so blatantly that you question their degree of scrutiny, or flat out didn't play the game at all.

    I don't want passion out of my game reviews. I can get unlimited sources of that from every forum on the web. I'd rather have a good discussion about what the game does right, and what it does wrong, without trying to boil the argument down to "this game sucks" or "this game rules." Which is pretty much why I'm very against review scores in the first place.

    What he does, how he acts and what he writes is completely separate.

    I haven't read or watched the review in question, so it is completely possible that he wrote something that is questionable. But you are talking as if they are all connected all the time, using these examples as "proofs". They don't have to be. Assuming so is ad hominem.

    I'm not defending him. I don't give a flying whatsit about that guy. I'm critiquing your logic.

    Except we had pages of discussion about the flaws in his reviewing process. Refer to his review on Neir, and how he felt compelled to write an entire review based off of the very opening of the game.

    And I disagree that how one acts and how one writes are completely separate. When you spend hundreds of hours on forums gushing in anticipation about an upcoming game, film yourself dancing with the game before playing it, and subsequently write a lavish review of the game, your per-conceived notions are going to seep into your writing to some degree. If this guy had previously displayed considerable restraint, then maybe you might be more forgiving, but since he already had another high profile, controversial review which already called into question his reviewing process, why would you give him the benefit of the doubt?

    And understand that I'm not slamming this guy specifically. I'm not saying "oh that justin, he's a prick, fuck his reviews personally." I'm using him more as an example of the flaws which pervade game reviews, and game journalism, as a whole. He's not an anomaly, he's just a very public example of a lot of problems with the process.

    No, I'm saying you shouldn't assume they are connected. Noting a biased remark is fine. "This game is awesome". Well you can look at that, look at his history, link that up, explain it away, then ignore it.

    But what you are doing is two things: automatically assuming he can't write anything worth reading ever based on limited examples and automatically assuming most gaming journalism is the same.

    Both of these are actually poor judgement and reasoning on your part.

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  • Shady3011Shady3011 they cant troll you if there dead Registered User regular
    Kotaku has updated its article. Emphasis by the original poster.
    Update: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, publisher Square Enix said it has "no information on [Final Fantasy Type-0's] availability on the PS Vita."

    Sony said it would not comment on rumors or speculation.

    Some posters on the message board NeoGAF have questioned the veracity of these listings, pointing out that the above image may be Photoshopped. Although we have not been able to verify that the image is fake, a Eurogamer reader wrote in the article's comments saying that he works for Play and that there are no listings for Tales of Innocence R, Final Fantasy Type-0, or Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Nights in the retailer's system.

    NeoGAF poster Father_Brain also points out that the Eurogamer tipster has admitted he did not take a screenshot of the listing. It instead seems to have circulated from a variety of sources including the Something Awful message boards.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Critical eye does not imply a complete lack of bias - every single opinion is biased. Critical eye refers to the degree in which a reviewer will scrutinize a game. I don't trust someone who has made up their minds about a game to display a level of scrutiny that I find valuable. And I'd certainly say that, given everything within the last 2 pages, that NONE of these outlets are trusted sources to me.

    His love of the game can inform what he writes, but you've presupposed that it makes of the entirety of what he writes. False assumption.

    The fact that you don't trust any of the outlets is your decision, and a valid one.
    If all you got out of these two pages are that reviewers can't like a game, nor can they not dislike a game, then you missed the entire point of these last two pages worth of posts. It's not that they liked or disliked the game, is that they weren't critical with their assessment of it, and either let their bias hang out so blatantly that you question their degree of scrutiny, or flat out didn't play the game at all.

    Out of the last two pages, all I've seen is the Nier example. That's a poor review if it hinged on that fact alone, but pointing out that it's non-intuitive (as some here have asserted) is completely fair game.
    I don't want passion out of my game reviews.

    Then we agree to disagree.
    I can get unlimited sources of that from every forum on the web. I'd rather have a good discussion about what the game does right, and what it does wrong, without trying to boil the argument down to "this game sucks" or "this game rules." Which is pretty much why I'm very against review scores in the first place.

    This is when you get into fuzzy territory. Does right by what metric? Stacked against other titles in the genre? On the same system? Up against the intentions of the developer? On a pure novelty basis? For example, a game can be technically poor, but end up being enjoyable because it does clearly convey the developer's intent. If a sequel has perfected the gameplay of its predecessors, but it boring to the reviewer, which way does that review go?

    The answers to those questions are wholly dependent on the reviewer/critic. Some hated Dragon Age II for the changes in gameplay, while others defend it for it characterization and some of the themes it tackles. It's a decisive game that has lead to way more written criticism than other blockbuster titles. I like it that way. Much like the Eurogamer reviewer who tackled Uncharted 3. He wondered if perhaps the was too much like a theme park ride on rails, and less like an interactive experience. He gave it an 8, but for some, the game did everything right. Whose viewpoint is correct?

    (Out on errands so may not answer immediately)

    To be clear, I'm not assume that the entirety of his review is based off of his devotion to the game. I'm instead saying that his devotion to the game causes me to question his review. Are the things he writes about his enjoyment actually derived from his enjoyment of the game, or are they preconceived? Is he listing every fault in the game, or is he glossing over them because he wants to like the game so much? I'm not saying he is or isn't doing these things, I'm saying that his surrounding actions causes me to be skeptical of his claims. Which sort of goes back to your "trusted source" claim - we accept reviews because we trust them, and these sorts of actions cause me not to trust them.

    Your comment about metrics is a great point, though. I don't think that's something that should be decided on a game by game basis. I don't think you can definitively say what makes a game good or bad, but I do think you can put forth a good argument and explaination as to why you personally feel a feature is well done or not. Which is what I'm generally looking for. Essentially, less "The controls in game X are clunky" and more "I couldn't get into the controls of game X, because I've been trained on game Y's conventions and they're more natural to me, where as game X's conventions differ from what I expect in A, B, and C manner." I'm more receptive to the latter because it presents me an argument which I can decide myself if I agree or disagree with.

    that's why I don't agree with review scores - they naturally pit one game against another, and like you said, what one game does wrong for one person, it might do right for another. I'd much rather read about what one person found the game did right and wrong, than boiling down the argument to "this game is good" or 'this game is bad."

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Shady3011 wrote: »
    Kotaku has updated its article. Emphasis by the original poster.
    Update: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, publisher Square Enix said it has "no information on [Final Fantasy Type-0's] availability on the PS Vita."

    Sony said it would not comment on rumors or speculation.

    Some posters on the message board NeoGAF have questioned the veracity of these listings, pointing out that the above image may be Photoshopped. Although we have not been able to verify that the image is fake, a Eurogamer reader wrote in the article's comments saying that he works for Play and that there are no listings for Tales of Innocence R, Final Fantasy Type-0, or Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Nights in the retailer's system.

    NeoGAF poster Father_Brain also points out that the Eurogamer tipster has admitted he did not take a screenshot of the listing. It instead seems to have circulated from a variety of sources including the Something Awful message boards.

    This is just getting sad. I went to bed early last night joking and talking about other joke Vita photoshops and by the time I sit down to work the next morning its all over the web on supposedly legitimate websites. Now this.

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  • LegendofLinkLegendofLink Registered User regular
    The pricing of Apple products is the way it is because it makes them the most money. They won't sell an iDevice at a loss or even at cost because they don't need to. Demand is so high that they get to have their cake and eat it too, making money on both hardware and software sales, as opposed to just software sales. As long as the demand stays high enough, the prices won't go down. Regardless of the hardware, though, remember that you are also paying for iOS, and how much value that adds to the product varies wildly from person to person. It just so happens to have a lot of value to the general public.

  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Shady3011 wrote: »
    Kotaku has updated its article. Emphasis by the original poster.
    Update: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, publisher Square Enix said it has "no information on [Final Fantasy Type-0's] availability on the PS Vita."

    Sony said it would not comment on rumors or speculation.

    Some posters on the message board NeoGAF have questioned the veracity of these listings, pointing out that the above image may be Photoshopped. Although we have not been able to verify that the image is fake, a Eurogamer reader wrote in the article's comments saying that he works for Play and that there are no listings for Tales of Innocence R, Final Fantasy Type-0, or Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Nights in the retailer's system.

    NeoGAF poster Father_Brain also points out that the Eurogamer tipster has admitted he did not take a screenshot of the listing. It instead seems to have circulated from a variety of sources including the Something Awful message boards.

    This is clear evidence that they don't know how reporting works. You're supposed to check and see if something is real before reporting it. You don't just report whateverthefuck, assume it's real, then wait for someone to prove it's fake.

    That is so fucking backwards.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Shady3011 wrote: »
    Kotaku has updated its article. Emphasis by the original poster.
    Update: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, publisher Square Enix said it has "no information on [Final Fantasy Type-0's] availability on the PS Vita."

    Sony said it would not comment on rumors or speculation.

    Some posters on the message board NeoGAF have questioned the veracity of these listings, pointing out that the above image may be Photoshopped. Although we have not been able to verify that the image is fake, a Eurogamer reader wrote in the article's comments saying that he works for Play and that there are no listings for Tales of Innocence R, Final Fantasy Type-0, or Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Nights in the retailer's system.

    NeoGAF poster Father_Brain also points out that the Eurogamer tipster has admitted he did not take a screenshot of the listing. It instead seems to have circulated from a variety of sources including the Something Awful message boards.

    This is clear evidence that they don't know how reporting works. You're supposed to check and see if something is real before reporting it. You don't just report whateverthefuck, assume it's real, then wait for someone to prove it's fake.

    That is so fucking backwards.

    This is a consequence of the OMG MUST GET IT ONLINE TEH FIRST!!!! mentality.

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  • skeldareskeldare Time for adventure! Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Shady3011 wrote: »
    Kotaku has updated its article. Emphasis by the original poster.
    Update: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, publisher Square Enix said it has "no information on [Final Fantasy Type-0's] availability on the PS Vita."

    Sony said it would not comment on rumors or speculation.

    Some posters on the message board NeoGAF have questioned the veracity of these listings, pointing out that the above image may be Photoshopped. Although we have not been able to verify that the image is fake, a Eurogamer reader wrote in the article's comments saying that he works for Play and that there are no listings for Tales of Innocence R, Final Fantasy Type-0, or Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Nights in the retailer's system.

    NeoGAF poster Father_Brain also points out that the Eurogamer tipster has admitted he did not take a screenshot of the listing. It instead seems to have circulated from a variety of sources including the Something Awful message boards.

    This is clear evidence that they don't know how reporting works. You're supposed to check and see if something is real before reporting it. You don't just report whateverthefuck, assume it's real, then wait for someone to prove it's fake.

    That is so fucking backwards.

    Wasn't it originally posted as a rumor and then other news sites started posting it as fact?

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Death Groupie Registered User regular
    I really think the Ipad thing is turning into a whole 5 yard elf PC argument.
    I get a warmth in the cockles of my heart when someone ressurrects that meme.

    I don't understand what this means. Can someone fill me in?

    The actual post is lost to the annuals of time as far as I know, but way back before even the current generation of consoles IIRC, somebody on the PA forums tried to post about how consoles are basically "three year old PCs." Except he somehow butchered his typing and actually wrote "three yard elf PC."

    The absurdity of the phrase was only matched by it's hilarity, and thus a meme was born.

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  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    I find it terribly amusing that Kotaku Guy is putting more effort into demanding that GAF prove that the image was photoshopped than he did when he first posted the rumor in the first place.

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  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Oh hey looks like the various tabloid sites are backpedaling.

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  • Shady3011Shady3011 they cant troll you if there dead Registered User regular
    skeldare wrote: »
    Renzo wrote: »
    Shady3011 wrote: »
    Kotaku has updated its article. Emphasis by the original poster.
    Update: In response to Kotaku's request for comment, publisher Square Enix said it has "no information on [Final Fantasy Type-0's] availability on the PS Vita."

    Sony said it would not comment on rumors or speculation.

    Some posters on the message board NeoGAF have questioned the veracity of these listings, pointing out that the above image may be Photoshopped. Although we have not been able to verify that the image is fake, a Eurogamer reader wrote in the article's comments saying that he works for Play and that there are no listings for Tales of Innocence R, Final Fantasy Type-0, or Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Nights in the retailer's system.

    NeoGAF poster Father_Brain also points out that the Eurogamer tipster has admitted he did not take a screenshot of the listing. It instead seems to have circulated from a variety of sources including the Something Awful message boards.

    This is clear evidence that they don't know how reporting works. You're supposed to check and see if something is real before reporting it. You don't just report whateverthefuck, assume it's real, then wait for someone to prove it's fake.

    That is so fucking backwards.

    Wasn't it originally posted as a rumor and then other news sites started posting it as fact?

    Eurogamer posted it first as fact that the screen shot was a legitimate screen grab of those Play.com listings. No one has denied that in any of the news posts I've seen. The only rumor part here is the "validity" of these games coming to the Vita.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Zhu-Li, do the thing! Registered User regular
    Sorry guys, gotta run... I've made a new thread since we're so close to 100.

    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/156834/video-game-industry-thread-apple-does-something-or-other

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    The only legitimate screen was of the Monster Hunter one. Everything else was presumably faked. And as the Kotaku guy flat-out admitted, "it seemed plausible enough", so he put it up as fact.

    Which I guess explains why nobody is apparently going apeshit over Pokemon Grey coming to the Vita. Obvious fake is fake. Except when it's not, in which case it must be real, amirite?

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