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The Obama Administration: Re-Elected! 332-206 (Probably)
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How has America already failed?
I guess if you just want him to shoot everyone that is currently held there, that is technically true.
But something about that seems wrong to me.
You do know you're dead wrong, right?
Someone has to fund the thing, Someone has to take the prisoners, someone has to host the trial. All these things were stopped by both parties in Congress.
Yeah. That wasn't Obama's fault.
Most of us here plan to vote for Obama.
Take that however you wish.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
We no longer have a functioning Democracy. We have a single party system controlled by lobbyists from corporate and special interest groups. They even write laws that congress is passing. They pass laws to stomp out 'unfair competition' and create regulatory departments that are then taken over by the corporations that payed to have them created.
Congress has been locked at 535 members to keep congressional districts growing to make it harder and more expensive to get in. The system has been rigged to make it so no 3rd party candidate has a chance.
You're right. Clearly we should let the United States die rather then save it. Better to have Snow Crash then no cash, amirite?
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Anyone that wants to go form a socialist commune on what used to be Federal land, let me know. Taking some names, getting some things together while the rest of the nation still thinks there's a chance of recovery. I figure we can hire a contracting firm and charge it to the Fed, and our new fortress may be complete before they realize the country is actually gone.
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You realize this has largely been true for the last two hundred years right? When was the last time a third party won a presidential election, or had major representation in the legislature? Pretending these are new issues, or not structural ones that have been around since the inception of the country, is pure goosery.
If your thesis was correct, America should have completely collapsed during the Gilded Age more than a century ago. Hell, it was worse back then.
There is no saving it. Unless you have some ideas? Hint: Voting and running for congress wont work. It's been tried.
Big Business didn't start taking over until the early 1900s, the gilded age was much better for business. As for third party having representation in the legislature? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)
Yea it's always been a problem, but they've been making it even worse. It's absolutely impossible now.
Roosevelt lost that election, badly, and the Progressive Party didn't exactly last long after that single election.
Your example is also one hundred years old.
Also since you're constantly proven wrong about your claims and when that happens to just change the subject I'm not sure why you think you have all the answers.
My Band "The Wicked Girls" http://soundcloud.com/the-wicked-girls/sets
And what would you have done, oh Pony, Destroyer of Worlds?
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No, third parties in the US have had a long and vibrant history. The reason that third parties can't get traction today is twofold - one, no third party is willing to do the tough yeoman work to actually get traction, like competing in and winning local and state elections and building a solid reputation; and two, because the people who ARE willing to do that yeoman work find that it's a lot more effective to work within the existing parties to actually effect the changes they want.
I'd take third parties more seriously if they'd stop being really bad jokes.
Wait for the inevitable collapse, by that time people will be fed up enough with Democrats and Republicans that maybe people can get in and fix things. More and more people are getting fed up to the point where the government is cracking down pretty hard, even the smallest political movements are infiltrated by the FBI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens'_Commission_to_Investigate_the_FBI
There's also this: http://freestateproject.org/
Time for me to do my voting system routine:
Duverger's Law - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law
Unless there's really fucking strong localised support for a third party movement, they might as well be dead because they've got no base to fall on. That's why it's so hard for other parties to get a foothold in American politics, the system just favours a two party duality - any other party outside of that duopoly either adapts and takes the place of one of them, or dies off. That's just how it works, and personally I think it'd be really nice if you guys could change that soon. Sure, proportional representation carries with it the stigma of "paralyzing compromise", but personally I'd say that's just how democracies are supposed to work anyway. You deal, you compromise, and make sure no single group of assholes get to rule the day.
/my2cents
Remind me how well that worked out for the 'Liberatarian (aka; anti-federalist pretending to be a libertarian)' candidate this primary season?
23% of the republican vote?!?
Amazing.
Truly this is our future.
That sort of speech is not welcome, nor should it come with the expectation of protection.
+1 Endearment, sir.
Have you read up on American history? Third parties have played a significant role throughout, both for good (Populist/Progressive) and ill (Know-Nothing). Everyone loves to cite Duverger's Law, but it doesn't tell the whole story, and that becomes clear with even a cursory look at the history of politics in the US. Hell, if you actually are looking at dynamics, there's a solid argument to be made that we've had a three-party system in the US for most of the 20th century, with the "Dixiecrat" faction playing kingmaker between the Republicans and Democrats. (Part of the reason that we're seeing them lose their shit the past few years is because Obama won election without their support, which is a direct threat to them.)
No, the reason that third parties currently fail in the US is because the current ones are an absolute joke. They don't try to build popular support and win at the lower levels - they grasp for the brass ring, hoping that winning a major office will get people to join them. Which doesn't work.
:^:
Wasn't too pleased to read this update from the ACLU:
http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/cia-we-do-not-concede-or-not-concede-waterboarding-illegal
No, I haven't read much of American history, but from what I've read it would appear that any party that surfaces to challenge the two parties that were at the time dominant either overthrew one of them or vanished after a while. They gained popular support by focusing on single issues/ anything that made the public angry and unless they were incorporated into the dominant parties or surpassed them they simply vanished after a period of time. Yes, to me it would seem that they could influence public discourse and perhaps to some extent big party policy (and we see this today also in the Tea Party to some extent), but if they didn't succeed one party or got their politics assimilated into the "two party system", they sank.
And you have to admit that the bar for admittance into the American political/ party game via the current voting system is indeed damn high for pretty much anyone, people would have a much easier time getting their voices heard if they wouldn't have to break ~40% to get represented.
If you're talking about Ron Paul the GOP has been openly committing fraud against him:
Edit: Also the FSP already has 15 people in the house of representatives.
Morons. Why do people not think about their actions? How did they think this was going to go? Ugh.
But how about this? We'll stop putting up things like this when they stop flying confederate flags and accusing Obama of being black in public.
Both sides of this argument are silly. Putting Obama's face on the (would be) stars & stripes is dumb, but political figures have been wrapping themselves in the flag for centuries now; the awesomely named John Masterjohn should just roll his eyes and move on, if you ask me.
Cult of personality? No more than any successful politician or public figure (including the radio and FOX News jabberjaws who will inevitably go on and on about this). Lenny Kravitz's song is equally true now as it was when he first sang it.
Printing money holds off inflation? I think I will use this statement as a standard to calibrate my assessment of your statements by.
Borderlands 2 PA Xbox Metatag - Bazillion Guns
So why didn't he win more than 23% of the vote in the state where the FreeStateProject actually is, rather than some random video about Georgia?
(Edit: Also, random Georgia video is titled delegate fraud, which is not equal to voter fraud, aka has no effect on him only winning 23% of the vote, but I'm not going to take any time watching the video, since it is irrelevant to New Hampshire)
Also, can I get a cite for that 15 people in the house of Representatives? The closest I see is wikipedia claiming "12 "Free Staters" (project early movers) were elected to the 400-member New Hampshire House of Representatives." which is a significantly different claim than what you put forth. 3% is not all that impressive.
To be fair when your most famous mascots are Ron Paul and Ayn Rand it isn't going to get many voters.
You remind me of those Romans who lamented the hopeless decline of Rome throughout its thousand year history. Your country ain't finished yet. Oh, unless you all want it to be. In which case, can England have the nice bits back?
Wat.
How about we stop flying tacky flags over our headquarters because it's a sensible thing to do. What's next - macaroni art displayed in the lobby that resembles the POTUS?
You don't want my statue
I agree, and if it's my decision I wouldn't put it up. But I don't really think that the GOP has a leg to stand on here by screaming PERSONALITY CULT.
How many bitcoins equals one knut, again?
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That's the Feds logic not mine. They think by giving discounts it will encourage investments but all it does is risk hyperinflation. To undo the damage will require interest rates as high as 15% for years on end.
The 12 is an old number, the 15 is from a more recent interview with Reason magazine. Just because it's only 15 now doesn't mean the numbers wont go up. More people are moving to NH.
The fraud video shows fraud is taking place, if you want voter numbers here's a link: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/220691?page=1 Just because there's no hard evidence yet doesn't mean it's not happening.
Really?
Good luck with that Evilution.
Also; that link is a GOLD MINE of comedy. Thanks for that.
The vote total for ron paul was much higher than the vote total for ron paul, because we (ron pauls fan club) said so!
Edit: Anyways. This isn't the Ron Paul Sucks thread. Sorry for derailing it. I'll stop now. Scouts honor.