[WARMACHINE & HORDES] Gargantuans is out and awesome! (Except for the Gargantuans)

OtakuD00D

I'm liking the sound of Kraye + Stormwalls. Sure they don't benefit from Iron Horse, but he has Guided Fire on models that can reliably pump out between 6 and 10 shots together per round. That's focus efficiency right there.

Full Tilt + Feat on one of them is also damn hilarious.

Dino-czar

OtakuD00D wrote: »

I'm liking the sound of Kraye + Stormwalls. Sure they don't benefit from Iron Horse, but he has Guided Fire on models that can reliably pump out between 6 and 10 shots together per round. That's focus efficiency right there.

Full Tilt + Feat on one of them is also damn hilarious.

Between 4 and 8, you mean?

SJ

Actually it would be 8 to 16.

OtakuD00D

Each of them has two cannons, don't they? Plus two metal storm guns. That's a minimum of six shots between the both of them, 10 max.

EDIT: OH MY GOD I'VE ONLY BEEN COUNTING A SINGLE METAL STORM GUN.

SJ

2 + 2 = 4 scrublord

OtakuD00D

I only counted one metal storm per Stormwall!

SJ

Yeah I know. Hence the scrublord comment /smug

admanb

OtakuD00D wrote: »

I only counted one metal storm per Stormwall!

lawl

General Nemo

I am starting a band called Scrublord, now.

kaorti

I had a really weird game tonight.

eStryker v. eStryker

My List:
Lord Commander Stryker (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Storm Lances (Leader and 2 Grunts) (7pts)
Sword Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Archduke Alain Runewood (3pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)

His list:
Lord Commander Stryker (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Sword Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Sword Knight Officer & Standard (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
* Hunter (6pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)

Notice how almost all the models are the same? That's never happened to me before. Rebukes everywhere. I went second, got my feat off first, and then he failed an assassination run into Ol' Rowdy's countercharge. Mirrormatches are weird. You can't tilt the game into a style of play where you have the advantage because your opponent can do almost the same thing.

admanb

That's pretty funny. I think I would swap lists on the spot if I saw that was going to happen. The weirdest mirror match I ever played was an eStryker guard/blades/clad list against an eHaley slances/thunderhead list. Half of our abilities didn't do anything.

kaorti

I'm not sure how it is for other factions, but Cygnar mirror matches get really weird. Electricity attacks and electricity immunity stack up to make the game go sideways. The Kreugers are similar, but at least your stuff works on the beasts.

I might have switched, but I really wanted to get back into playing eStryker after talking to you guys about him. He's a really cool caster, and he's so different from most of my other choices. I love his statline and his ability to shift between army support and super-solo.

Of course, in that game neither of us really got to do much. We both had to stay 17"+ away from each other, and our units were all rebuked. Runewood's reform + Stryker's feat giving me an unexpected 6" threat made the whole difference.

Nobody

So showed up at the store last night to try to get in a game or two, found out that 25 point lists are...not that common.

So I'm going to have to bump up to 35/50 and learn the hard way there.

On the other hand on one game I watched I saw a possible assassination run that the player missed, so I may not be entirely out of my depth

PMAvers

The more I think about it, the more I'd play the fuck out of a Doc Arkadeus tier list that let him run Cephalyx.

Svenska

Looking to get into Hordes and start something different than my Ret list. I've built a 35 point Skorne force and was wondering if anybody could tell me whats wrong with it?

Master Tormentor Morghoul
Titan Gladiator
Titan Gladiator
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Venators Slingers (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Bloodrunner Master Tormentor

I really like (and already have) the two Titans and Morg so I would like to keep em in but I'm free to change the rest

admanb

I don't know much about building Skorne lists, but in general Warmachine lists tend to go for variety over doubles. I would drop the non-UA Swordsmen and the Slingers, and fit in... other stuff. Probably a Brute to protect Morghoul with no-knockdown. You said you own and like the two Titans, but upgrading one to a Bronzeback could give the list a big boost.

kaorti

Don't get a 2nd unit of swordsmen. Nihilators are going to be more universally useful in Skorne than swordsmen. You'll want a bronzeback titan. I wouldn't double up on beast handlers to start with, though a second unit might be worthwhile when your collection gets larger.

I'd go with a minimum unit of Venator Reivers + UA instead of the slingers. The master tormentor isn't a bad choice, but an Agonizer seems to be more broadly useful. You really want aptimus marketh for your collection as well.

Morghul is a beast caster, so I'd go with at least a 3rd beast. Probably a Cyclops brute for his animus.

Edit: If I had to build a list similar to yours at 35pts, I'd go with something like this:

Points: 35/35
Master Tormentor Morghoul (*7pts)
* Cyclops Brute (5pts)
* Bronzeback Titan (10pts)
* Titan Gladiator (8pts)
* Aptimus Marketh (3pts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (3pts)
Agonizer (2pts)

These are models which will fit into a whole slew of Skorne lists, though this particular list may not be optimized.

Svenska

K, sounds good. I like the reivers looks wise better than the slingers anyways. I know that the bronzeback is the better choice, but I think I'm gonna be stubborn and stick with the two gladiators. Still pretty new to Skorne, so I'll have to read up on the rest of the guys.

Thanks for the fast help!

Nobody

Alright, so if I bump the Siege list I put together to 35, I'd be looking at something like...

Points: 35/35
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (*5pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Defender (9pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Rangers (5pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)

Though part of me really wants to toss Harlan Vesh in there instead of Gorman (mainly because I think this list as is probably swings way too far towards anti-armor and not enough anti-infantry).

And if it goes to 50 pts...

Points: 50/50
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (*5pts)
* Cyclone (9pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Defender (9pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Rangers (5pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)

Cyclone gives the much needed denial via covering fire and Boomhowler gives a strong front line I can pop into foxhole to shoot over when needed (though part of me wants to fit the OAC in there instead).

kaorti

I'd put the 2nd defender back on seige and the cyclone on the gun mages. 2d3 thunderbolt shots can really help clearing a zone in a pinch, and the cyclone hardly ever want's focus. Having mage sight on both defenders can really make a difference in a pinch too.

Rangers and gun mages are great anti-infantry. Especially with seige's feat. Boomhowler and Co. are great, but they are even better with arcane shield from Jr. Aiyana & Hold are awesome, but Explosivo really helps reduce the need for them.

Try this on for size:
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (*5pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Cyclone (9pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Rangers (5pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)

Run Boomhowler and co. up to engage, then drop covering fire on the enemy models. They can stay and try to kill 12/19 trolls with 4+ tough and then take a pow 12, or they can retreat and take freestrikes.

Nobody

kaorti wrote: »

I'd put the 2nd defender back on seige and the cyclone on the gun mages. 2d3 thunderbolt shots can really help clearing a zone in a pinch, and the cyclone hardly ever want's focus. Having mage sight on both defenders can really make a difference in a pinch too.

Rangers and gun mages are great anti-infantry. Especially with seige's feat. Boomhowler and Co. are great, but they are even better with arcane shield from Jr. Aiyana & Hold are awesome, but Explosivo really helps reduce the need for them.

Try this on for size:
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (*5pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
* * Cyclone (9pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Rangers (5pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)

Run Boomhowler and co. up to engage, then drop covering fire on the enemy models. They can stay and try to kill 12/19 trolls with 4+ tough and then take a pow 12, or they can retreat and take freestrikes.

Excellent, thank you!

What about the 35pt list? Keep as is?

EDIT: Or drop A&H for Junior and a Stormcaller?

SJ

No way would I run less than four beasts with pMorghoul, even at 35. Motherfucker loves his beasts and everyone else can fuck off.

kaorti

At 35pts I'd keep your current list. Siege isn't one of my best casters though. Experiment with it a bit, and consider replacing the gun mages with some sort of melee unit. Gun mages are great, but siege really wants rangers. Gorman is just about the best 2pt model available, but I think that siege can take him or leave him as well.

Your core list is 2 defenders, Reinholdt and rangers. The rest is debatable.

If you do take a melee unit, it's usually worth it to include the journeyman. Stormguard (with help from foxhole), Boomhowler & Co. or Sword knights can all be surprisingly tough with Arcane Shield.

SJ wrote: »

No way would I run less than four beasts with pMorghoul, even at 35. Motherfucker loves his beasts and everyone else can fuck off.

Yeah. With a lot of Skorne, more beasts is better. You probably want a Basilisk Krea a Cyclops Savage, and a Cyclops Shaman with a bunch of casters too. I stand by Nihilators as a great all purpose melee unit, but they aren't at their best with Morghul.

SJ

I'd do Gladiator, Bronzeback, Brute and Shaman. Savage is unnecessary, Brute is critical.

I like this

Points: 35/35
Master Tormentor Morghoul (*7pts)
* Cyclops Brute (5pts)
* Cyclops Shaman (5pts)
* Bronzeback Titan (10pts)
* Titan Gladiator (8pts)
* Aptimus Marketh (3pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)
Bloodrunner Master Tormentor (2pts)
Bloodrunner Master Tormentor (2pts)
Feralgeist (1pts)
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor (2pts)

If you don't like the Shaman, drop it for a Krea and drop the feralgeist foooorrrrrrrrrrr.... something. Bone grinders seem okay.

General Nemo

I'd drop all the solos and the Gobbers for a unit of Nihilators. More sustainability in a unit that doesn't need all that much support to do its job. The way Morghoul loses games is that he gets flooded with models, preventing his beasts from getting to their preferred targets.

The battlegroup is perfect, though. Brute for survivability, Shaman for upkeep hate, and two big nasties. Couldn't ask for more.

SJ

So anyways someone buy my Skorne

Svenska

K, round 2. Probably just as bad as my first attempt, but I feel like this one is better.

Also SJ, could you PM me? Would love to know what skorne stuff you're selling

Master Tormentor Morghoul
Cyclops Savage
Cyclops Shaman
Titan Gladiator
Titan Gladiator
Gatormen Posse (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Ancestral Guardian
Paingiver Task Master

tzeentchling

Replace the AG with Marketh and you're probably fine.

Svenska

Yeah? I thought the statue dude was pretty cool, and killy? Don't know a whole lot about Marketh.

For me it was either the AG or a catapult. Just something else to help deal against mass inf.

tzeentchling

Aptimus Marketh basically is pMorgoul's best friend. Spell Slave is great, letting you cast a spell for free each turn, and Soul Tap lets you upkeep spells from your warlock when your troops die. I guess he's better with Nihilators or Swordsmen, but he's still not bad with this list. pMorg has lots he wants to do with his fury, so AM helps him.

Also, the Ancestral Guardian also gets powered by souls, but I suspect in this list he won't get many. Otherwise he'd be just fine.

Edit: An alternate option might be an Agonizer and Swamp Gobbers. Also quite good models on the whole.

Svenska

Cool, sounds good. Does Morghoul really want to get out into close combat asap or something? I thought he just stayed back until he went for a caster kill.

SJ

Svenska wrote: »

Cool, sounds good. Does Morghoul really want to get out into close combat asap or something? I thought he just stayed back until he went for a caster kill.

pMorghoul has the ability to chop through a ton of infantry in a single turn or anatomical someone to death, but typically speaking he is trying to deliver a bronzeback (or just about anything, really - abuse is amazing) to someone's face, not going for the kill himself. eMorghoul is the assassin version. Also you will want a Brute instead of a Savage - if Morghoul gets knocked down you're probably going to lose the game right then and there. He needs his DEF to survive. Remember, Perfect Balance allows you to stand up for free if you're knocked down, but it doesn't prevent you from being knocked down.

Also, doubling up on Gladiators isn't that great. The Gatormen don't really need the task master at 35 points I feel, and you could use those 2 points to turn a gladiator into a bronzeback - a huge deal imo.

Svenska

Yeah, I suppose with everybody everywhere telling me I need to drop a gladiator for a bronzeback I probably should. I like dropping the task master to get it, and I wasn't thinking about having to deal with being knocked down...good call on that.

kaorti

Svenska wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose with everybody everywhere telling me I need to drop a gladiator for a bronzeback I probably should. I like dropping the task master to get it, and I wasn't thinking about having to deal with being knocked down...good call on that.

Of course, two gladiators AND a bronzeback is a perfectly valid list.

SJ

You mean two bronzebacks and a gladiator right

General Nemo

SJ wrote: »

You mean two bronzebacks and another four bronzebacks right

admanb

General Nemo wrote: »

You bronzeback bronzeback bronzebacks and bronzeback bronzeback bronzebacks right

SJ

Fuck yeah Bronzeback, baddest motherfucker

Accualt

After painting up three bone jacks, deciding on undead pirates for next purchase, and playing a game with my Battle box I realized I like Cryx but I love some of the Trollblood models.

My challenge to you fine folks is making a 25 point list that isn't a complete train wreck using the Troll Blitzer and Bouncer. Eventually I would want a Mauler, Scouts, and the Mountain King (so awesome looking) but that is a longer term goal.

Right now I'm thinking

Grim or Borka
Fennblades
Bouncer
Slag
Blitzer

How bad of an idea is this?

admanb

It's... pretty bad. With only a Blitzer and Bouncer for beasts you're lacking any big damage output.