It doesn't really make any sense because the average is what we can expect to get and if we aren't retarded, we can expect to get something better than average by looking at what other countries do. We aren't likely to get the worst. The only way it would make sense is if people are saying that all universal health care systems work, which is a strawman.
Sometimes it is implemented so badly that it makes you go "the fuck are we doing this for" or it utterly fails people.
But suggesting that is an indictment of universal healthcare is pointing to an instance of congressional corruption as an indictment of democracy as a failure.
Spool I'd be interested in hearing objections to universal healthcare as a concept
No one will disagree that it is possible to implement it poorly. But there are so many models for good, strong universal systems, systems which are definitively superior to the mess in the US and the mediocre universality in Canada, that I have trouble seeing the objection.
I see. Only good universal coverage is universal coverage! Because, if it were possible to have bad universal coverage, then it would be possible for universal coverage to be bad.
I gotcha.
Well you're starkly against the idea it seems, rather than the implementation. That's dangerous. Sure you got rubbed the wrong way by a bad system but thousands and thousands of people a day get fucked over by not having one at all.
I'd rather 1 person get fucked over every now and then by a bad implementation than thousands and thousands because we don't have one.
I have a lot of responses to this, from the unfair framing of your post to the meat of the discussion, but I was serious - I can't have the conversation in here. There is literally no upside, and no possibility of a discussion.
I'll just say that we should be reforming our health system in the USA, but not in the way we're trying now. I don't want to be driven into a position of defending the status quo, but our current attempt at reform implementation is IMHO super terrible.
That's really all I feel like I have the luxury of saying without turning [chat] into a mess.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
tim burton just needs to have sex with johnny depp and get it over with
Some actors and directors like to work together. Kurosawa and Mifune. Ford and Wayne. Scorsese and Bobby D. I never quite managed to grasp why Burton and Deep provokes an "Oh god, not again" reaction.
Their pairings in the last ten years or so seem to operate on autopilot.
ancient, but I want to add one more.
Scorsese and DiCaprio. That has been a very good pairing over the past decade.
I agree. I know people run hot and cold on Leo but I think he's been in too many good movies for it to be a fluke.
Leo is still clawing his way out of the stigma people have for him because of titanic. Nevermind he actually gave a good performance in that film, and has been a believable character in multiple films the past 20 years.
And he has only gotten better with time. Departed? Blood Diamond? Inception?
Dude has chops.
He has absolutely earned my respect. I haven't seen J. Edgar and I hear it's mainly just okay, but it shows again how he's willing to totally undermine his physical appeal to commit to a job.
That's also part of why I respect Tom Cruise's work, despite him being a goofball as a person. I distinctly remember leaving Vanilla Sky on opening night and hearing a woman behind me go "UGH, I DIDN'T COME TO THIS MOVIE TO SEE TOM CRUISE UGLY"
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Arguing against universal health care to a crowd that has multiple members who lives have been saved by universal health care strikes me as a little rude
Arguing against universal health care to a crowd that has multiple members who lives have been saved by universal health care strikes me as a little rude
"This thing that saved your life is terrible."
Oh I'm sorry, would you prefer if I had died?
this is a little unfair, cass
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I'd put Brad Pitt in there, too. Great talent that got pigeonholed because he's a prettyboy.
I see. Only good universal coverage is universal coverage! Because, if it were possible to have bad universal coverage, then it would be possible for universal coverage to be bad.
I gotcha.
Well you're starkly against the idea it seems, rather than the implementation. That's dangerous. Sure you got rubbed the wrong way by a bad system but thousands and thousands of people a day get fucked over by not having one at all.
I'd rather 1 person get fucked over every now and then by a bad implementation than thousands and thousands because we don't have one.
I have a lot of responses to this, from the unfair framing of your post to the meat of the discussion, but I was serious - I can't have the conversation in here. There is literally no upside, and no possibility of a discussion.
I'll just say that we should be reforming our health system in the USA, but not in the way we're trying now. I don't want to be driven into a position of defending the status quo, but our current attempt at reform implementation is IMHO super terrible.
That's really all I feel like I have the luxury of saying without turning [chat] into a mess.
I don't really find the bolded statement that disagreeable.
Arguing against universal health care to a crowd that has multiple members who lives have been saved by universal health care strikes me as a little rude
tim burton just needs to have sex with johnny depp and get it over with
Some actors and directors like to work together. Kurosawa and Mifune. Ford and Wayne. Scorsese and Bobby D. I never quite managed to grasp why Burton and Deep provokes an "Oh god, not again" reaction.
Their pairings in the last ten years or so seem to operate on autopilot.
ancient, but I want to add one more.
Scorsese and DiCaprio. That has been a very good pairing over the past decade.
I agree. I know people run hot and cold on Leo but I think he's been in too many good movies for it to be a fluke.
Leo is still clawing his way out of the stigma people have for him because of titanic. Nevermind he actually gave a good performance in that film, and has been a believable character in multiple films the past 20 years.
And he has only gotten better with time. Departed? Blood Diamond? Inception?
Dude has chops.
He has absolutely earned my respect. I haven't seen J. Edgar and I hear it's mainly just okay, but it shows again how he's willing to totally undermine his physical appeal to commit to a job.
That's also part of why I respect Tom Cruise's work, despite him being a goofball as a person. I distinctly remember leaving Vanilla Sky on opening night and hearing a woman behind me go "UGH, I DIDN'T COME TO THIS MOVIE TO SEE TOM CRUISE UGLY"
back before i'd ever kissed a girl and a woman saying the word 'sex' could give me a boner... i remember furiously masturbating to cameron diaz in that movie. the line where she's like, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, WE HAVE A CONNECTION. I SWALLOWED YOUR CUM. THAT MEANS SOMETHING.
I'm just at a loss how you got screwed by universal health care.
Anything true about it means someone would be screwed by any healthcare, and triply so about American healthcare.
I hear, typically, "oh but you have to wait to see a doctor or get help." well you do in the US too. My mom waited 3 months to have her gallbladder removed. The only people that get surgery quickly are rich people or people who are about to die (or transplants). I fail to see how one could be really screwed in a universal healthcare setting other than "oh I had to wait... semi-reasonable amounts of time."
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
spool i don't want to hate republicans with you here but did you see the thread about how texas is going against federal regulations by restricting where low income/disabled women can receive certain gynecological (abortions, i think? or maybe it's just receiving contraceptives, i don't remember) services/procedures?
it was the most heinous thing i'd seen in a while and i was wondering if you had an opinion on it.
I'm not well informed on the decision yet - it appears to be a federal-state catfight where the State doesn't want to fund abortions with the federal medicaid grant and the Fed says "well, you take the money with our conditions and our rules attached or you can fuck right off."
Assuming that's accurate, I can see Texas's argument here and I'm generally against the fed blackmailing the states into these kinds of arrangements across the board. In this case it looks like it might screw over a bunch of people though.
I need more info before I can form an opinion. The Texas Tribune podcast touched on it this morning but I missed most of it.
Arguing against universal health care to a crowd that has multiple members who lives have been saved by universal health care strikes me as a little rude
"This thing that saved your life is terrible."
Oh I'm sorry, would you prefer if I had died?
I don't see anything wrong with pointing out that Universal Health Care is not 100% perfect.
I just hope some effort is put into the argument rather than spitting out lazy, sweeping generalizations based on something once read/heard that might be true.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Arguing against universal health care to a crowd that has multiple members who lives have been saved by universal health care strikes me as a little rude
"This thing that saved your life is terrible."
Oh I'm sorry, would you prefer if I had died?
conversely, the retard rodeo of a system that nearly killed me and literally bankrupted one of my friends is the best ever
Tom Cruise is a fantastic actor and a perfect example of why it's important to be able to mentally divorce an artist from their works unless their works are acting as a direct vehicle for who they are.
Like if Tom Cruise was doing Scientology bio-pics or something then fine, rag on him. But when he's doing movies that have nothing to do with the fact that he's a batshit nuts cultist I think he needs to be judged as an actor purely.
Arguing against universal health care to a crowd that has multiple members who lives have been saved by universal health care strikes me as a little rude
"This thing that saved your life is terrible."
Oh I'm sorry, would you prefer if I had died?
this is a little unfair, cass
i am in a bad spot right now and as thus most of my posts are shitposts
spool i don't want to hate republicans with you here but did you see the thread about how texas is going against federal regulations by restricting where low income/disabled women can receive certain gynecological (abortions, i think? or maybe it's just receiving contraceptives, i don't remember) services/procedures?
it was the most heinous thing i'd seen in a while and i was wondering if you had an opinion on it.
I'm not well informed on the decision yet - it appears to be a federal-state catfight where the State doesn't want to fund abortions with the federal medicaid grant and the Fed says "well, you take the money with our conditions and our rules attached or you can fuck right off."
Assuming that's accurate, I can see Texas's argument here and I'm generally against the fed blackmailing the states into these kinds of arrangements across the board. In this case it looks like it might screw over a bunch of people though.
I need more info before I can form an opinion. The Texas Tribune podcast touched on it this morning but I missed most of it.
well, abortion is legal in texas. planned parenthood can only perform procedures that are legal in texas- if planned parenthood is breaking the law, then arrest the people doing it.
'you can go here but not there' is just ideological bullying. i mean, talk about blackmail- this is quintessentially that. forget the fed blackmailing the state. this is the state blackmailing poor and disabled women.
tim burton just needs to have sex with johnny depp and get it over with
Some actors and directors like to work together. Kurosawa and Mifune. Ford and Wayne. Scorsese and Bobby D. I never quite managed to grasp why Burton and Deep provokes an "Oh god, not again" reaction.
Their pairings in the last ten years or so seem to operate on autopilot.
ancient, but I want to add one more.
Scorsese and DiCaprio. That has been a very good pairing over the past decade.
I agree. I know people run hot and cold on Leo but I think he's been in too many good movies for it to be a fluke.
Leo is still clawing his way out of the stigma people have for him because of titanic. Nevermind he actually gave a good performance in that film, and has been a believable character in multiple films the past 20 years.
And he has only gotten better with time. Departed? Blood Diamond? Inception?
Dude has chops.
He has absolutely earned my respect. I haven't seen J. Edgar and I hear it's mainly just okay, but it shows again how he's willing to totally undermine his physical appeal to commit to a job.
That's also part of why I respect Tom Cruise's work, despite him being a goofball as a person. I distinctly remember leaving Vanilla Sky on opening night and hearing a woman behind me go "UGH, I DIDN'T COME TO THIS MOVIE TO SEE TOM CRUISE UGLY"
back before i'd ever kissed a girl and a woman saying the word 'sex' could give me a boner... i remember furiously masturbating to cameron diaz in that movie. the line where she's like, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, WE HAVE A CONNECTION. I SWALLOWED YOUR CUM. THAT MEANS SOMETHING.
that delivery kept me lubed for like six months.
conversely, that scene made my balls shrink in fear
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Arguing against universal health care to a crowd that has multiple members who lives have been saved by universal health care strikes me as a little rude
"This thing that saved your life is terrible."
Oh I'm sorry, would you prefer if I had died?
this is a little unfair, cass
i am in a bad spot right now and as thus most of my posts are shitposts
The fuck, guys. Ireland has universal coverage. 100% free healthcare for everyone!
It's not like we're talking about that untrue scotsman system.
The problem with what you're saying is you're claiming that all universal coverage is bad because Ireland's was bad when you were there.
So fucking typical of conversations I have around here. Kindly point me to the part where I said anything of the sort! All I'm claiming is that universal coverage isn't a magical fucking panacea that instantly solves all healthcare problems.
Sometimes I feel like I could just go "hey guys I have an opinion" and let people fill in the goddamned blanks with whatever they think it is. It's what happens half the time anyway.
spool i don't want to hate republicans with you here but did you see the thread about how texas is going against federal regulations by restricting where low income/disabled women can receive certain gynecological (abortions, i think? or maybe it's just receiving contraceptives, i don't remember) services/procedures?
it was the most heinous thing i'd seen in a while and i was wondering if you had an opinion on it.
I'm not well informed on the decision yet - it appears to be a federal-state catfight where the State doesn't want to fund abortions with the federal medicaid grant and the Fed says "well, you take the money with our conditions and our rules attached or you can fuck right off."
Assuming that's accurate, I can see Texas's argument here and I'm generally against the fed blackmailing the states into these kinds of arrangements across the board. In this case it looks like it might screw over a bunch of people though.
I need more info before I can form an opinion. The Texas Tribune podcast touched on it this morning but I missed most of it.
the blackmailing doesn't screw anyone over unless the state decides to be a dick about it and refuse, does it?
and anyway anything that takes power away from anti-abortionists has something to it
The fuck, guys. Ireland has universal coverage. 100% free healthcare for everyone!
It's not like we're talking about that untrue scotsman system.
The problem with what you're saying is you're claiming that all universal coverage is bad because Ireland's was bad when you were there.
So fucking typical of conversations I have around here. Kindly point me to the part where I said anything of the sort! All I'm claiming is that universal coverage isn't a magical fucking panacea that instantly solves all healthcare problems.
Sometimes I feel like I could just go "hey guys I have an opinion" and let people fill in the goddamned blanks with whatever they think it is. It's what happens half the time anyway.
I apologize for doing this to you, because I totally did and I'm sorry. It was rude and incorrect.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Government money does not fund abortions. This is a federal law already.
Saying that Medicare dollars fund abortions is as intellectually honest as saying that the tax dollars spent on the county road that leads to the clinic can be said to fund abortions.
The fuck, guys. Ireland has universal coverage. 100% free healthcare for everyone!
It's not like we're talking about that untrue scotsman system.
The problem with what you're saying is you're claiming that all universal coverage is bad because Ireland's was bad when you were there.
So fucking typical of conversations I have around here. Kindly point me to the part where I said anything of the sort! All I'm claiming is that universal coverage isn't a magical fucking panacea that instantly solves all healthcare problems.
Sometimes I feel like I could just go "hey guys I have an opinion" and let people fill in the goddamned blanks with whatever they think it is. It's what happens half the time anyway.
It's a black and white issue.
It's either universal health care or not universal health care. I guess you could argue a universal health care for people who can't afford it, but then you have pretty much everything wrong with healthcare... hey wait this sounds familiar.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
Sometimes it is implemented so badly that it makes you go "the fuck are we doing this for" or it utterly fails people.
But suggesting that is an indictment of universal healthcare is pointing to an instance of congressional corruption as an indictment of democracy as a failure.
No one will disagree that it is possible to implement it poorly. But there are so many models for good, strong universal systems, systems which are definitively superior to the mess in the US and the mediocre universality in Canada, that I have trouble seeing the objection.
o_o
I have a lot of responses to this, from the unfair framing of your post to the meat of the discussion, but I was serious - I can't have the conversation in here. There is literally no upside, and no possibility of a discussion.
I'll just say that we should be reforming our health system in the USA, but not in the way we're trying now. I don't want to be driven into a position of defending the status quo, but our current attempt at reform implementation is IMHO super terrible.
That's really all I feel like I have the luxury of saying without turning [chat] into a mess.
He has absolutely earned my respect. I haven't seen J. Edgar and I hear it's mainly just okay, but it shows again how he's willing to totally undermine his physical appeal to commit to a job.
That's also part of why I respect Tom Cruise's work, despite him being a goofball as a person. I distinctly remember leaving Vanilla Sky on opening night and hearing a woman behind me go "UGH, I DIDN'T COME TO THIS MOVIE TO SEE TOM CRUISE UGLY"
(not like, itching to try to pin you against the wall, just genuinely curious. I've never heard 'em.)
"This thing that saved your life is terrible."
Oh I'm sorry, would you prefer if I had died?
No way dude
You're practically locked in for a 3 way now
this is a little unfair, cass
I don't really find the bolded statement that disagreeable.
that's a pretty hyperbolic way to look at it
back before i'd ever kissed a girl and a woman saying the word 'sex' could give me a boner... i remember furiously masturbating to cameron diaz in that movie. the line where she's like, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, WE HAVE A CONNECTION. I SWALLOWED YOUR CUM. THAT MEANS SOMETHING.
that delivery kept me lubed for like six months.
Anything true about it means someone would be screwed by any healthcare, and triply so about American healthcare.
I hear, typically, "oh but you have to wait to see a doctor or get help." well you do in the US too. My mom waited 3 months to have her gallbladder removed. The only people that get surgery quickly are rich people or people who are about to die (or transplants). I fail to see how one could be really screwed in a universal healthcare setting other than "oh I had to wait... semi-reasonable amounts of time."
I'm not well informed on the decision yet - it appears to be a federal-state catfight where the State doesn't want to fund abortions with the federal medicaid grant and the Fed says "well, you take the money with our conditions and our rules attached or you can fuck right off."
Assuming that's accurate, I can see Texas's argument here and I'm generally against the fed blackmailing the states into these kinds of arrangements across the board. In this case it looks like it might screw over a bunch of people though.
I need more info before I can form an opinion. The Texas Tribune podcast touched on it this morning but I missed most of it.
i really can't conceptualize a purely market-based healthcare system that doesn't suck
and it's funny because the quality of his performance is usually inversely proportional to how good he looks in the movie
I don't see anything wrong with pointing out that Universal Health Care is not 100% perfect.
I just hope some effort is put into the argument rather than spitting out lazy, sweeping generalizations based on something once read/heard that might be true.
conversely, the retard rodeo of a system that nearly killed me and literally bankrupted one of my friends is the best ever
USA USA
Like if Tom Cruise was doing Scientology bio-pics or something then fine, rag on him. But when he's doing movies that have nothing to do with the fact that he's a batshit nuts cultist I think he needs to be judged as an actor purely.
As collateral for my argument, I hold up
uh
Collateral.
she could get it for free, but there was about six months wait
since she could, she paid for the procedure at a private clinic with minimal waiting times
if she couldn't, she'd still have gotten help. How anyone is screwed there I dunno.
i am in a bad spot right now and as thus most of my posts are shitposts
well, abortion is legal in texas. planned parenthood can only perform procedures that are legal in texas- if planned parenthood is breaking the law, then arrest the people doing it.
'you can go here but not there' is just ideological bullying. i mean, talk about blackmail- this is quintessentially that. forget the fed blackmailing the state. this is the state blackmailing poor and disabled women.
i don't really see a way that this is ok.
conversely, that scene made my balls shrink in fear
Awesome.
If I had a battleship, it would be stenciled with either unironic Americanisms ("GET FUCKED" under the main guns, maybe) or dry British witticisms.
stop it
i wonder what those angled bits are for
I guess the upside is she should've died before I met her. whoo?
So fucking typical of conversations I have around here. Kindly point me to the part where I said anything of the sort! All I'm claiming is that universal coverage isn't a magical fucking panacea that instantly solves all healthcare problems.
Sometimes I feel like I could just go "hey guys I have an opinion" and let people fill in the goddamned blanks with whatever they think it is. It's what happens half the time anyway.
the blackmailing doesn't screw anyone over unless the state decides to be a dick about it and refuse, does it?
and anyway anything that takes power away from anti-abortionists has something to it
I apologize for doing this to you, because I totally did and I'm sorry. It was rude and incorrect.
Saying that Medicare dollars fund abortions is as intellectually honest as saying that the tax dollars spent on the county road that leads to the clinic can be said to fund abortions.
It's a black and white issue.
It's either universal health care or not universal health care. I guess you could argue a universal health care for people who can't afford it, but then you have pretty much everything wrong with healthcare... hey wait this sounds familiar.
Sexy
One of my old co-workers was involved in the design of a pretty dope battleship.
It's a trimaran which is pretty interesting.
twitch.tv/tehsloth