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[StarCraft2] Thread closed. Move on to the new thread.

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Posts

  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    For the 3 months I played WC3, I never, EVER learned to use any teleportation spells, not even the default one you get at the start of each game.

    (hence, I sucked at wc3 even though I love me some micro)

    MMMig on
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I think most people figured it would be dropped because multiple free TP Scrolls is ridonkulous.

  • crucialityfactorcrucialityfactor Registered User regular
    Joe K wrote: »
    MMMig wrote: »
    If blind works like optic flare did in BW, even up close ranged units wouldn't attack, at all.

    I'm OK with that.

    well, i'd still be more interested in darkswarm, and well, plague. optic flare was permanent, and i cant see this carnation of blizzard making any effect permanent. why does dustin hate all the good units from BW, wtf was wrong with the defiler?

    and mass recall to nexus is still a bad idea. what was wrong with arbiters? i can see a multitude of abusive situations from this

    and a new unit for terran air dominance? does that even make sense with marines, vikings, BCs, turrets and ghosts? I mean, there's a strong case that anti-air is T>P>Z currently. (and there is no indication that Zerg is getting any relief on this front)

    Speaking of anti-air, they're scrapping the corsair-analog... any protoss feel that the muta "problem" has been solved with the phoenix upgrade?

    i ... don't understand the thinking about this patch. sure, i'll wait until it comes out, or at least beta before making any judgements, but i clearly can't follow their thinking.

    Dude...your whole post was full of judgements.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I think most people figured it would be dropped because multiple free TP Scrolls is ridonkulous.

    I am positive it will require an expensive late game upgrade, use a ridiculous amount of energy and probably have a huge CD. It will probably be equivalent in time and tech to the current mothership recall. The likelihood if you just starting the game with infinite free recall is pretty slim.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    In regards to the new Viper spell, I'm pretty sure it replaces the old one. Their functionality is almost identical; it went from being a spell that reduces the range of units to 1 to a spell that reduces the sight of units to 1.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Yeah, it certainly replaces the original one. Vipers are basically losing Occular Parasite, losing the range 1 spell, gaining the sight 1 spell and keeping their scorpion pull.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    They didn't specify whether it would be a cloud-like spell or a fungal-like spell though.

  • crucialityfactorcrucialityfactor Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Yilias wrote: »
    I think most people figured it would be dropped because multiple free TP Scrolls is ridonkulous.

    I am positive it will require an expensive late game upgrade, use a ridiculous amount of energy and probably have a huge CD. It will probably be equivalent in time and tech to the current mothership recall. The likelihood if you just starting the game with infinite free recall is pretty slim.

    Yeah it would make denying a quick 3rd hatchery pretty ruch risk free if it was available early game. It would help out a lot more in the mid to late game though to help protect against drops or runbys when trying to move out. It would certainly aid in fixing the PvZ every long game turning into a base trade problem.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Pretty sure they said it would be a cloud, like Psionic Storm? I would have to go back and read it, but I remembering seeing the word "cloud".

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    the viper also has the ability to blind biological units in an area of effect. Blinded units have their range reduced to 1.

    I'm pretty sure it reduces range atm. I thought we were discussing whether or not it reduced sight in addition to that?

    Didn't the original also silence?

  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    The original spell was a cloud, but in the new one they just say 'has the ability to blind biological units in an area-of-effect'. That could mean that the units are blinded while in the area-of-effect, or that all the units in the area-of-effect are blinded (permanently or for a duration of time or whatever).

    mEEksa on
  • crucialityfactorcrucialityfactor Registered User regular
    I can't help but take the term 'blinded' literally. It makes me chuckle thinking of marines just wildly spinning around shooting everything indiscriminently. Or even better, just walking off the edges of bases and plummeting into the depths of Xel'Naga.

  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Oh, I assumed that it reduced sight, because that is what 'blind' did in Broodwar. I didn't even notice that it mentions the range being reduced.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    mastman wrote: »
    Joe

    sc2 is not sc1 as much as you want it to be. it is new game
    overlords aren't detectors
    hydras aren't boss player units which are tier 1
    we don't have defilers

    yep, its a new game, but set in the same universe, and with its continuity in shreds. there are a lot of things that haven't been retconned at all, or have been retconned incredibly poorly. To use non-zerg examples - shield batteries - you have a race with about half their health in "easily rechargeable" shields, you had a mechanic that allowed for the extremely rapid regeneration of shields, and it... was lost on Aiur? they took the medic, strapped her heal beam to a flying bus, and then removed the OTHER two powers from medics... High/Dark Templar merging into the same type of Archon is completely contrary to lore. Now to talk about zerg, the changes were so drastic that I'm not sure that the people designing the game had ever played the first.

    I guess that i'm looking for some internal consistency within this universe, and am failing to find much, even half assed attempts at retconning them.
    mastman wrote: »
    I don't think zerg really _needs_ anything atm for hots. ZvP and ZvT are both great matchups on zerg side of things. We can play and win with so many unit comps it's unfair to other races how fun zerg is.

    recent data supports that TvZ is (near) balanced, but TvP is out of whack in favor of protoss. i think that a strong case should be that zerg needs a little extra something to get into balance.
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Nexus recall isn't a new thing, they announced that way back at Blizzcon, in response to the mothership being removed. I am sort of surprised that people are surprised that it's being mentioned. Or more accurately that it's being talked about so much as if it's a new announcement.

    i'm just surprised that it hasn't been filed in the "easy to abuse" category. I'm guessing that you could mitigate the abuse potential with a global cooldown, and not a mana system per nexus, otherwise i see abuse such as attacking, recalling home, putting down attack at home, then recalling to forward nexus and pylon. it negates the disadvantage of having a slow gateway army. Hell, it could allow near instant warpins of a round of collosus. i look at it as a massive nydus worm, that has no eject time, that has no extra cost aside from the 400 for a nexus. (again, i'd have to look at the implementation of it. like if you could cast it once every 3 or so (game) minutes, a lot of this abuse potential goes away)

    of course, the same could be argued about the arbiter, but the arbiter wasnt exactly a beefy unit that was tough to take down, like say a forward nexus.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Oh. Wow. I didn't even think that it could simply reduce the sight, not the range. I really hope this isn't the case, because then it would be rather pointless. Bio units always have medivacs in tow, and they have good sight range.

    As for Joe's statement that zerg isn't getting any buff in the anti air department, I heard they're buffing hydras.

    edit: okay, it's range. phew.

    fatalspoons on
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    It said AOE, not cloud.
    And, what's the point of making a AOE cloud that only affects bio units?

    "This cloud was specifically created to stop marines from seeing, but stalkers and colossus are OK due to their heat-sensor targetting computers."

    That wouldn't make sense.


    Sure read like a AOE fungal / play-goo type of blinding spell.

    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    People still care about lore? I gave up on that when all the awesome people in WC3 become loot bags in WoW.

  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Wow, Joe, are you seriously, seriously complaining about the consistency of the Starcraft universe. Of all the things to complain about... my god. Also, the March statistics showed PvT heavily in favour of Terran, not Protoss.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    Joe K wrote: »
    I guess that i'm looking for some internal consistency within this universe

    Stop doing that. Seriously. Especially within the confines of multiplayer. Game Balance + New Ideas > universe consistency.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Blizzard gave up internal world consistency in favor of game play and polish a long time ago. I am not particularly sad about this. Blizzard's strong suite was never narrative. This should be pretty obvious, given that their two most popular franchises are direct thematic copies of earlier properties.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    mEEksa wrote: »
    Wow, Joe, are you seriously, seriously complaining about the consistency of the Starcraft universe. Of all the things to complain about... my god. Also, the March statistics showed PvT heavily in favour of Terran, not Protoss.

    I was talking about PvZ, maybe i miss typed... but there is something wrong in the PvT matchup as well...

    and whoever said that they're buffing hydras - yeh, at Hive tech, which makes it as likely of an upgrade to be used as the phoenix range upgrade. for a unit that has less hitpoint than the infestor. not exactly a go-to end of game unit, right?

    Yes, I'm aware that lore has been given short shrift since WC3, but I mean, there really hasn't been a half-assed attempt at explaining the drastically changed nature of the races. They prbly would have been better off keeping terran, and creating 2 new races... :-)

  • crucialityfactorcrucialityfactor Registered User regular
    Blizzard needs to stop releasing their ideas until they are 100% in the game. It just causes widespread panic and anxiety for no reason.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Blizzard needs to stop releasing their ideas until they are 100% in the game. It just causes widespread panic and anxiety for no reason.

    Yet if they don't, people on TL will complain that Blizzard isn't listening to the community and isn't involving us in the process. It's a no-win for Blizzard.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    Blizzard needs to stop releasing their ideas until they are 100% in the game. It just causes widespread panic and anxiety for no reason.

    I disagree. It's fun to speculate.

  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    It's fun, but then you go read the Teamliquid thread about the changes and suddenly you are #FeelinglikeJaziek

    And yet I still continue to read them. I have no idea why, I must be a masochist.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Blizzard gave up internal world consistency in favor of game play and polish a long time ago. I am not particularly sad about this. Blizzard's strong suite was never narrative. This should be pretty obvious, given that their two most popular franchises are direct thematic copies of earlier properties.

    I'd agree that Blizzard lost it's ability to tell a decent narrative, not that they never had it.

    ah well... i have this sneaky feeling that Blizzard is still at a loss to do with HOTS multiplayer, a much larger loss than they are publicly admitting, and that since they've cut or changed over half the new units/abilities, that they're going to change even more, probably drastically all through beta.

    I would love to imagine that SC2 has all the analytical engines working behind it like LoL, but I have a hard time believing this, based from the decisions being made, along with the announcements that they have to retract.

    I think that a lot of it has to do with business model (note: not gameplay, this has no bearing on the GAMES). LoL has to keep you interested (and willing to throw money at it) by constantly, iteratively making adjustments and adding new features that the installed base like enough to buy completely optional items. SC2 has your money and isn't about to collect anymore until HOTS is released, so why bother spending money on retention or enhancing the player experience?

    I firmly believ that Riot's business model, one that strives to be close to the customer (so you spend more the more you're enthralledwith it), is far superior to Activisions, which is, I guess to claim that they are the best in breed, so give me all your money now, and then we will ignore you.

    Again, this is not a debate about the games. This is about business model.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    mEEksa wrote: »
    It's fun, but then you go read the Teamliquid thread about the changes and suddenly you are #FeelinglikeJaziek

    And yet I still continue to read them. I have no idea why, I must be a masochist.

    could be worse, you could be lurking reddit....

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    mEEksa wrote: »
    It's fun, but then you go read the Teamliquid thread about the changes and suddenly you are #FeelinglikeJaziek

    And yet I still continue to read them. I have no idea why, I must be a masochist.

    I realized not long ago that TL is really Reddit 2.0. It's the epicenter of the seething negativity that Anna was talking about on Twitter the other day. Everything sucks, Blizzard sucks, they are a dumb company, they don't know how to make games, everyone on TL is a better designer than Browder & Co (in their own minds). Plus you have the constant BW/SC2 sub-forum interplay and drama, mostly brought on by the BW posters feeling the constant need to poke in to SC2 threads and remind everyone how much they hate SC2 and how much they think BW is better.

    It's just a shit place. It wasn't like that a year ago.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    teamliquid forums are just as bad as blizzard forums. I choose to read neither

    ByalIX8.png
  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    mEEksa wrote: »
    It's fun, but then you go read the Teamliquid thread about the changes and suddenly you are #FeelinglikeJaziek

    And yet I still continue to read them. I have no idea why, I must be a masochist.

    Oh yes. I could see how TL could be tiring. That's why I lurk the PA forums. Much less nausea.
    Spoiler:

    fatalspoons on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    @Joe K: I disagree that Blizzard was ever that good at telling narrative. Their only games that had seriously good narrative were Diablo 2 and WC3, and both were pretty cliche....just very well told. WC1 and WC2 had little to no narrative, same with Diablo 1. StarCraft had some narrative, but if it was any more copied from Warhammer 40k Games Workshop would have sued.

    As other game developers have taken narrative to new heights, it's become more and more clear to me that Blizzard was never good at it...we just didn't know it yet. That doesn't take away from Blizzard's success, they are still awesome and I still love all their games...but I love them because they are great games, not because of the narrative. The story in Diablo 3 could be shit-tastic, I'll still play it until my eyes bleed because the game is so polished and fun.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • SaarutoSaaruto Registered User regular
  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    'blizzard'

    Biosys on
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Aspiring Game Designer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    So Terran bros, when is a good time to drop a Ghost factory and adding them to my army in both vP and vZ?

    http://www.gamesbygray.com (my website and resume)
    Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
    XBL Gamertag: MNC Dover
    Starcraft II: MNCDover.235
    3DS: 1934-0659-5183
    Hero Academy: MNC_Dover
  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    You're going to have to enlighten me on what a ghost factory is. It sounds pretty awesome though.

    Also: @Biosys, up for some BW?

    mEEksa on
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    Biosys wrote: »
    'blizzard'

    should be noted "blizzard" (a wholly owned subsidiary of activision, inc.)

    i think that blizzard had a lot more going for it before the vivendi purchase, and is a hollow shelf of itself after being spun off into activision.

    I do think that it will be interesting if Blizzard DOTA or HOTS gets more attention.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    I don't understand that line of thinking. Blizzard still puts out good games, Blizzard still employees some of the original lead designers on their various franchises. Blizzard is still run by the same group of core executives it's been run by for twenty years. Why exactly is Blizzard a shell of itself? It's just such a hyperbolic statement, with almost nothing to back it up.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh
  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    joe it would be a lot nicer and improve this discussion if you didn't constantly make wild assumptions about blizzard stuff and judged on them on what they've actually done - like how exactly has blizzard changed? i guess they got a lot bigger and can make more stuff at once

    kkkkkkkk mEEks, will be on in a sec

    Biosys on
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    So Terran bros, when is a good time to drop a Ghost factory and adding them to my army in both vP and vZ?

    If he goes for DTs or 2 base Storm, you should drop one once you have Medivacs on the way. If he goes for 2 base Collo get one when you take your third.

    Don't forget not to start them until Moebius Reactor is 40/80 done.

  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    I don't understand that line of thinking. Blizzard still puts out good games, Blizzard still employees some of the original lead designers on their various franchises. Blizzard is still run by the same group of core executives it's been run by for twenty years. Why exactly is Blizzard a shell of itself? It's just such a hyperbolic statement, with almost nothing to back it up.

    i'm going to have to ask for a citation here. It looks to me that most of the WC3 devs and the original WOW devs have moved on (LoL, HON, DOTA2). I suspect the same for most of the executives.

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