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[Hero Academy] Now on Steam with the TF2 Team! (PA League now actually works!)
Posts
The starting AP limit is just something you set for your own starts. You have no control over what your opponents start with, and they have no control over your start. Totally just a voluntary self-limit.
Makes sense, I think I will switch over to 3ap once I get some games as each race under my belt.
Thanks again for the game, I had a ton of fun and feel like I learned a lot. The main thing I am thinking over from that game at this point is equipment. Who to equip with what, when, and why. At the end you had three fully decked out guys, helm, armor, runemetal, the works. I had some knights with armor and helm but that was it. I had no way to crack that. It made me start to think about my default equipment plan: shield and helms go on knights, runemetal goes on ninjas, archers or wizards. But, having just runemetal on an attacker makes them such a squishy and ripe target, and losing runemetal hurts. And if all I have at the end is armored knights I don't have the damage to win. Lots of food for thought.
You did pretty good, though! That point just after I took out two of your healers and I said you might want to consider going all out against my crystal? You really did have a chance to win that way (but it may have been tricky).
You upgraded your knights defensively, which is a standard and great Council strategy, and you stuck damage upgrades on an archer and your ninja, also good. You upgraded the wazoo out of that one wizard, which wasn't bad, per se, but going for an upgraded wizard is kind of a situationally good move.
Your biggest problem was wasting scrolls and inferno spells. The first scroll was a judgement call ok move, rescuing a cleric and getting my aggressively forward impaler out of your business, but still: it was a scroll being used to take out a non-upgraded unit. But as I mentioned in-game, your second scroll's net result was just delaying me a turn while you gave your wizard a weapon upgrade. You really really wanted to have some of that heavy firepower and ranged stomp ability saved up for when I brought out those 1000+ hp superunits.
I also think that time you got your ninja into my back lines, you kind of wasted the opportunity by just killing my priestess. When I was watching your move play out, I was dreading that you'd take out one of my upgraded units, or that you'd go bananas attacking my crystal with the ninja. He can do a ton of damage to a crystal, even without your team having any purple tiles held. The priestess kill, while seemingly useful (since she was my last one), didn't really affect my team at that point since I had three fully upgraded self-healing units already deployed.
But still, you did good!
Did you want to actually join the League? There's a proper way to join that's listed in the OP. I'll add you to the "Other Players" list for now, though, and I'll assume your in-game name is MadCaddy as well.
In any case, welcome!
Edit: Also, OP has been updated with recent reports and challenges.
PA Hero Academy League Commissioner and Head Fight Instigator - Come join us!
Magic Cards with Googly Eyes
Golf had me on the ropes early but I was able to pull off a mad crystal rush in the end. My annihilator swept down the board and finish off the crystals in the final move:
aka Grillaface
PA Hero Academy League Commissioner and Head Fight Instigator - Come join us!
Magic Cards with Googly Eyes
Also, dwarves stupid OP. totally bought them.
3DS FC : 4270-0980-2372
LoL - Renon DeSaxous
My Hero Academy name is Petasus.
looking forward to it
GG, chicken. GG.
I will now properly know the impact range of a gunner. Losing that upgraded impaler was painful
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
sooooo close!
My long, less-than-exciting summary of the long, exciting game:
The early game was pretty interesting and evenly matched. I'd say I pulled ahead a bit in the beginning, coaxing a scroll, a fireball, and a potion from Brew with my early monk/priestess raids (I was elves, so my primary objective was eliminating his archers). Brew managed to fully upgrade one of said archers, and then tilted the scales back in his favor by evading my assassination attempts on her while building up a sizable army (ninja, two knights, two healers, a wizard)... things started looking grim for me. I eventually managed to kill all of the archers, but it required me to use BOTH scrolls in one turn, as the game had decided to not give me a single runemetal. Seriously, three of my final four items were runemetal upgrades. I'd sacrificed two impalers early on, and ended up with nothing that could do enough damage to permanently kill the uber-archer.
I eventually tried to attack, which Brew soundly countered, leaving my force in shambles. So I sent Fluffy on an emergency feeding frenzy, which... actually worked! I ate my own downed units, and used a life leech to put him over 1200 health (in order to be able to take two ninja attacks without going down). I eventually managed to grow him to his full size (and with 1410 or so health), and proceeded to spawn camp and eat Brew's guys.
Brew then stopped healing his knights, to deny Fluffy full health regen (all of my priestesses were dead at this point) and managed to maneuver his knights into ping pong formation, brilliantly using an attack tile and his spawn zone to kill my Wraith, after what I thought was an inevitable victory for me.
And so the true final battle began: He had two knights, a wizard, a priestess, and a potion. I had a necromancer with runemetal, and an impaler.
I killed a knight, he forced me to trade a unit for his wizard (my impaler), and I was finally able to slay his final cleric and knight with my Necro. It was seriously a one AP game.
Only downside: I was able to knock his knight down on my last turn, but not stomp him; I'm fairly certain Brew had a potion that he intended to use on the knight, but the game counted me victorious for knocking his final unit out before he could use the potion on his turn. If he could have used it, then he would've been able to knock out my necro on his next turn. I, however, had two phantoms still on the board. So I believe it would've still ended in a win for me, seeing as the knight would only have 100 hp when he got back up, which a phantom could take care of. I wasn't sure if phantoms alone would keep me in the game after my final hero died, though.
Does anyone know?
Congrats @Theodore Floosevelt! You've finished your 5th game! Your average opponent rating was 1504.4 and your record was 4-1, so your new rating is 1549.
Welcome to the League, @Petasus! You can go ahead and challenge anyone (anyone with 5 or more games would have to accept it). Once you've got 5 finished games, you'll get a rating (like Theodore Floosevelt did!)
PA Hero Academy League Commissioner and Head Fight Instigator - Come join us!
Magic Cards with Googly Eyes
Also, you all need to stop beating Brew, so I can feel better about losing to him repeatedly. ; )
Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
XBL Gamertag: MNC Dover
Starcraft II: MNCDover.235
3DS: 1934-0659-5183
Hero Academy: MNC_Dover
It makes sense if you think of this game like a boardgame. As I've said this game gives me a real boardgame vibe. The game has two end conditions that it checks at the end of each turn: Are all your crystals dead OR Are all your units dead? If either a true, game ends right then and there.
I think I'll be joining up for the league pretty soon, seems like a great way to make sure I get a steady stream of matches.
That's true, and I wouldn't say I dislike it. It was just a bit anticlimactic at the end of a tense match, when we both thought it wasn't over quite yet.
Yeah I thought I was at least going to beat up that necro for some satisfaction. I think you probably would have played a bit more aggressively knowing that you just needed to knock out both my units and not worry about me using a potion to resurrect the priest, who in turn could resurrect the knight. Hell, I probably would have played differently too
It was a good game though. Very very fun end game.
Time for a rematch!
@Jacoby
!challenge @Theodore Floosevelt
also
!challenge @wonderpug because we haven't had a game in a while
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
In general I prioritize units and items into values. The higher the value, the more I try to focus on removing it, even at the cost of my own units. For example, I would gladly sacrifice a Wizard to stomp out a Ninja. But that goes without saying. On the other hand, if that Wizard had all three upgrades, I'd probably not make the stomp because I don't know if that's worth losing the unit and all three upgrades. This thinking also applies to item usage and board positions.
Using a simple 3 point scale, this is how I roughly evaluate everything: (spoilered for length)
Council:
3 point value (in order of importance)
Ninja
Rune Metal
Archer
Supercharge
2 point value (in order of importance)
Inferno
Cleric
Dragonscale
Shining Helm
Wizard
1 point value (in order of importance)
Knight
Potion
Attack bonus tile
Crystal bonus tile
Defense bonus tile
Magic bonus tile
Dark Elves:
3 point value (in order of importance)
Wraith lvl 3/4
Impaler
Rune Metal
Supercharge
2 point value (in order of importance)
Wraith lvl 2
Necromancer
Priestess
Soulstone
Shining Helm
1 point value (in order of importance)
Void Monk
Wraith lvl 1
Soul Harvest
Mana Vial
Attack bonus tile
Crystal bonus tile
Defense bonus tile
Magic bonus tile
Dwarves:
3 point value (in order of importance)
Annihilator
Paladin
Rune Metal
Supercharge
The Pulverizer
2 point value (in order of importance)
Grenadier
Dragonscale
Shining Helm
Gunner
1 point value (in order of importance)
Engineer
Dwarven Brew
Attack bonus tile
Crystal bonus tile
Defense bonus tile
Magic bonus tile
Tribe:
3 point value (in order of importance)
Shaman
Chieften
Rune Metal
2 point value (in order of importance)
Witch
Spike Armor
Haunch of Meat
Typhoon
1 point value (in order of importance)
Axe Thrower
Warrior
Attack bonus tile
Crystal bonus tile
Defense bonus tile
Magic bonus tile
That's all very generic and meant to be thought of in a void. Clearly the situation of the game can change the worth of items/characters. Say your opponent has used both healing potions and has lost two Clerics. Well killing that last Cleric takes priority over killing the Ninja. Also, trading up has value. That means I'd sacrifice a Wizard with Rune Metal to kill a Ninja, even though I lose out slightly (5 to 3) in that trade. Then again, if it was my last Wizard or Rune Metal, I might have to reconsider.
So what do you guys think? Agree? Disagree? Should I increase the range of values up to 5? Is 3 attack range more valuable then 300 base attack? Am I putting too much focus on eliminating healers (especially vs Dwarves/Tribe)?
Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
XBL Gamertag: MNC Dover
Starcraft II: MNCDover.235
3DS: 1934-0659-5183
Hero Academy: MNC_Dover
I think it's interesting that potions are so low on your council list. I dunno if it's the norm but I absolutely horde those things; the flexibility they allow, being able to say, send a ninja on a kamikaze attack out of feasible cleric range that will end in his getting dropped but not stomped and still rez him in one AP is a big thing for me. Just keeping them in hand makes you more dangerous, as the ability to rez from anywhere on the map in one of the best things the Council has going for it.
But then again, I play against Council more than I play as Council. So this may be potion paranoia talking.
The Dark Elves are really adaptable, and so are harder to rank outside of the specific fight they're in. Any unit of theirs, once upgraded, can really self-sustain, and I'd say that's their greatest strength (Impalers do enough damage to get significant hp regen and can pull enemies off of boost tiles, Priestesses' debuff reduces enemy damage output, Monks are mobile and have the best magic resistance in the game, and necros never have to get close to neturalize units and can raise meat shields).
Still, I'd say that the Necro's three-square range and three-square-range stomp is invaluable, and void monks are tanky ninjas that you get three of that are also super cool
EDIT: But I'd say it's an accurate list, just that I find Dark Elf units harder to rank than, say, Dwarves. And speaking of, I might even put Paladins over Annihilators. That's a tough one for me. They're easily the scariest healing unit, and while they don't really shine until they're upgraded and in a pair or trio, killing one while it's alone could be the only chance you ever get.
My Hero Academy name is amateurhour
I just picked this up last week and haven't played yet, so looking forward to getting my ass kicked.
The Vac - My Science Fiction Epic
Fortune Pancakes - My Gag-A-Day Comic
COME AT ME BREW
Also! Because I have wrapped up most of me games:
@Jacoby, I !challenge @Wonderpug!
and also one more what's this @Jacoby, I !challenge @MNC Dover!
I guess the problem with lists is that something has to go near the bottom.
Also, range vs damage is also a big issue. 3 range attacks are always a huge advantage, but a 300 base attacker with an attack upgrade can 2 shot almost any unit. Gives the advantage of moving in, killing, stomping, and retreating. Archers are the only unit that get both these attributes, making them so high up on my "kill list".
Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
XBL Gamertag: MNC Dover
Starcraft II: MNCDover.235
3DS: 1934-0659-5183
Hero Academy: MNC_Dover
I like what you're doing with the point values here. I didn't have a real grasp on chess until I had the (generally accepted) piece value list. You're right in that situation can matter more, but it's good to have a starting point.
PA Hero Academy League Commissioner and Head Fight Instigator - Come join us!
Magic Cards with Googly Eyes
My other typical high level strategy is to repeatedly present my opponent with really hard choices. In action, this sort of just comes across as playing aggressive, but I think it's a bit more than that. It's getting yourself into aggressive situations in which your opponent can fight off your unit, but only if it means not getting out of some other ugly situation, be it knocked out units, a threatened crystal, another aggressively placed unit, or whatever.
The lack of those really hard choices is what makes matches against beginners or most anonymous randoms so easy. There's usually either one clear best move (oh, I'll just heal this guy and then advance forward some more), or even multiple best move options (my opponent is just turtling up, I can advance however I please).
[Game Designer mode]
People forget that boardgames (which HA basically is) are also a lot about managing resources. In HA, actions are resources. Managing yours and your opponents actions can make the difference between winning and losing. Perfect example from the other day:
I had my Ninja move up and kill off an opponent's Knight. Move, attack (x3), stomp. Looking at my opponents units, I knew that the only threat was the Archer who would have to move twice and fire three times to kill him. Not surprisingly, that's exactly what my opponent did enabling me to Potion my Ninja, swap with a Knight, get healed (x2 actions) to full, and move my Knight back.
The attack items, depending on the unit equipped to, can give you a bonus action as well. An Archer 3 shots most 800hp units, but 2 shots with an attack upgrade. That makes attack upgrades extremely important, both in keeping around and eliminating. Likewise, a fully buffed Knight (armor/helmet), simply can't be killed in one turn in about 90% of situations, without the use of a spell or special ability.
The biggest monkey wrench is the spells. Typhoon and Supercharge at their core are essentially extra actions. Since there is no way in-game to track how many items/characters the player has or used, these can really screw up your day. I know I've lost quite a few games to a well place Supercharge.
The designers of the game really understand resource management. Units, spells, actions, and spacing in HA are top notch, which makes the game a lot of fun, but also a lot more difficult to learn for "less strategically obsessed" types like ourselves.
[/Game Designer mode]
I can typically tell within the first couple of moves if my opponent is playing for fun or trying hard to win. If a guy moves up, drops a scroll, attacks, and drops a fire to kill my Engineer, I know the rest of the game should be a cake walk.
Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
XBL Gamertag: MNC Dover
Starcraft II: MNCDover.235
3DS: 1934-0659-5183
Hero Academy: MNC_Dover
I gotta disagree - to me its analagous to a card game (hearts, blackjack) where part of the skill is remembering what is out there. The caveat being when you're playing 20 games at once it can be tough to mentally keep track of.
I too am always counting the reinforcement pool - and basically always trying to remain concious of what my opponent could do next. Plan accordingly.
aka Grillaface
PA Hero Academy League Commissioner and Head Fight Instigator - Come join us!
Magic Cards with Googly Eyes
Thanks for the friendly welcome Jacoby -
so on with the challenging
@Jacoby, I !challenge @;DesertChicken and @;Golf153
The caveat is kind of... you know, the important part, haha. Plus the fact that it is, as Inquisitor said, sometimes spread over days or weeks of time. That's no longer reasonable to try and "count the cards" or whatnot.
premium <3 me and I <3 premium
BradicusMaximus <3 me and I <3 BradicusMaximus
1) kill the super unit
2) kill the healer
3) kill anybody with an upgrade
4) kill everybody else
Outside of that it def helps to know how many spells (fireball, pulv, etc) are out there.
Honestly I think the game would be less fun (for me) if everyone automatically knew what was played and what could be played by any means other than paying attention. If you wanna write all that down, I don't mind, that's your thing.
If they do release a tool for that I hope they charge at least $9.99 for it.
aka Grillaface
The compromise I'm hoping for is to allow you to rewind and see the entire history of turns. For card counters, it gives an easier way to check if certain things have been played without resorting to tedious spreadsheets, but in a way that benefits newbie and pro alike.
I also wish they'd allow you to see a fast-forwarded replay of the entire match when it finishes. Especially on the longer, more epic matches, it'd just be so fun to see the push and pull of how the match unfolded.
Releasing something that could be viewed as giving a competetive advantage for $10 would be a deal breaker to me, and a bad precedent to set.
Edit: A replay system would be great! Even if you could only watch it at the end, it would be a great tool for entertainment and self improvement.
Nintendo Network ID: MNC.Dover
XBL Gamertag: MNC Dover
Starcraft II: MNCDover.235
3DS: 1934-0659-5183
Hero Academy: MNC_Dover
I'm pretty good at keeping a sense for how all my active matches are developing, but it's hilarious when someone takes over a week to make their move. At that point, I've lost all sense of what's happened and what my plan was. "Why in the world is my superunit left in such a vulnerable position?!!! I sure hope I had a good reason for sacrificing him!"
If I were in charge of the universe, Hero Academy would adopt a variable chess-like turn timer the way Ascension handles it. Set it to 10 minutes if you want a live match, 7 days if you want it to be more of a play by email feel, or anywhere else in between.