from a quick google, the math 'mean' (the noun) derives from the Latin medianus, whereas the other 'mean' as in common or sucky derives from proto-Germanic.
But then there's a pretty fair share of words which technically mean 'average' but in usage just mean "crappy".
mediocre
middling
pedestrian
etc etc
(but then you can also say, "I make a mean martini" so around we go)
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
But, remember that modern usages of a word are often supported and reinforced by folk-etymology. Even when a common opinion about the origin of a word is not supported by primary sources, the fact that the word connotes something for many people causes them to use it more. We like to use words we feel we have control over.
I figure I could take a bear.
0
Options
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Yeah, words. "Awful" is a good one too. The term went from meaning to inspire "Awe", full of "Awe", to something terrible. Even as recent as Moby Dick the term "Awful" meant something that fills another with a sense of awe, not necessarily a good or bad thing, so when modern readers come across the passage where the waves are discussed as "awful", they might think of huge, treacherous waves pounding the boat, which wasn't necessarily how Melville would have thought of the word.
Man what is it about words describing levels of awe that makes them shift into broader meanings? See also:
But, remember that modern usages of a word are often supported and reinforced by folk-etymology. Even when a common opinion about the origin of a word is not supported by primary sources, the fact that the word connotes something for many people causes them to use it more. We like to use words we feel we have control over.
My hope was that this thread would slowly evolve into a philosophy of language thread. One of the issues we could take up is the relationship between etymology and meaning. If a particular word meant X at T1, and later, at T2, means Y, how do we deal with this?
Then trip from that into a conversation about Wittgenstein and the theory of meaning-as-use.
But, remember that modern usages of a word are often supported and reinforced by folk-etymology. Even when a common opinion about the origin of a word is not supported by primary sources, the fact that the word connotes something for many people causes them to use it more. We like to use words we feel we have control over.
My hope was that this thread would slowly evolve into a philosophy of language thread. One of the issues we could take up is the relationship between etymology and meaning. If a particular word meant X at T1, and later, at T2, means Y, how do we deal with this?
Then trip from that into a conversation about Wittgenstein and the theory of meaning-as-use.
In the past your take on philosophy of language has been very combative and negative towards everyday usage. Have you mellowed?
My pet peeve is people who complain about people using 'irony' wrong
It's like the easiest word in all of English to complain about
Except for maybe 'ain't', but that just makes you come across as a stuffy grandma
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
0
Options
facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
And the definition of "irony" specifically features a clause that gives it a broader meaning than they credit it.
so they're actually wrong.
which
is
ironic.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
I haven't actually looked at an exhaustive list before now. Some of these don't even sound Arabic, but I guess that's what happens over 1,000+ years of linguistic transformation.
I know you can be overwhelmed, and that you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be whelmed?
I am a teenage girl from the 90s.
I just read a book by Virginia Woolf that did indeed use "whelmed." Although the meaning was pretty much the same as "overwhelmed."
I don't get the context for "what should we do when word X begins meaning Y instead of Z." In what context? Are you talking about "when updating dictionaries" or "when reading old books" or what? The change itself is inevitable.
LadyM on
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
I just saw someone write "pain-staking" on their Facebook wall.
I find this sort of thing amusing, but my linguistics has failed me, so I don't recall what it he correct term is.
I just saw someone write "pain-staking" on their Facebook wall.
I find this sort of thing amusing, but my linguistics has failed me, so I don't recall what it he correct term is.
I do that sort of thing all the time! For some reason I expend extra effort to write the wrong word. Like I'll write "know" instead of no for some reason. I have no idea why.
I just saw someone write "pain-staking" on their Facebook wall.
I find this sort of thing amusing, but my linguistics has failed me, so I don't recall what it he correct term is.
If you are going to be breaking it up, shouldn't it be "pains-taking"?
I assume the etymology of the word is just, y'know, taking pains
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Off the top of my head are "eerie" and "aerie" and I'm guessing there are more.
So, uh.
No.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
As to "however", what I was taught - and I don't claim this is correct, only what I was taught at some point - was that "however", "but", and the like were properly used as:
[clause1]; however, [clause2]
So, for example:
I don't care for mayonnaise; however, I admit it's a fundamental part of a proper tuna salad.
So if I'm writing something formal or technical, that's how I use it. For informal writing, I just throw it around willy nilly. And for creative writing, fuck it, all rules are off. (Provided you have a good understanding of what the rules are, and why, precisely, they should be off.)
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Off the top of my head are "eerie" and "aerie" and I'm guessing there are more.
So, uh.
No.
Only 5-letter q word with 4 vowels!
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Off the top of my head are "eerie" and "aerie" and I'm guessing there are more.
So, uh.
No.
Only 5-letter q word with 4 vowels!
I like "gypsy" because it's the only five letter word that starts with a g and rhymes with "tipsy"!
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Queue is the only 5-letter word with 4 vowels in a row maybe?
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
I really hate when people saw "less" when they mean "fewer".
It's "12 items or fewer" you dumb supermarket express lines.
Jeffe, it is incorrect to insert however as a conjunction. It's not used in the same way as "but", which is a coordinating conjunction that joins clauses together.
Correct:
I am green; however, you are blue.
I am green. However, you are blue.
I am green, but you are blue.
Incorrect:
I am green, however, you are blue.
I am green. But you are blue.
I am green; but you are blue.
The latter two incorrect ones are largely permissible informally, because starting a sentence with a coordinating conjunction is a common stylistic choice with a real function. Using however in the first error example, though, is a glaring error (a comma splice).
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
I use comma splices all the time. It's terrible. I can't help it - if I'm not paying attention i seem to use them exclusively, every sentence.
One of my favorite quotes on the meanings of words shifting:
“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.”
― Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies
Comma splices are the most common error for a reason, apo. Don't feel bad. We are trained, both through explicit education and through the natural mechanisms by which we learn language, to treat commas as denoting a pause in spoken language. The actual clause or phrase structure doesn't always match how we would verbalize the sentence.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
0
Options
facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
I love semicolons.
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
0
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
nice try kana
you colonial you
0
Options
Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
You did!
0
Options
AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
If you can't see the relevance of Stephen Fry in a thread about language.... May I ask how you got out of your room? The nurses must be worried.
Posts
But then there's a pretty fair share of words which technically mean 'average' but in usage just mean "crappy".
mediocre
middling
pedestrian
etc etc
(but then you can also say, "I make a mean martini" so around we go)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php
But, remember that modern usages of a word are often supported and reinforced by folk-etymology. Even when a common opinion about the origin of a word is not supported by primary sources, the fact that the word connotes something for many people causes them to use it more. We like to use words we feel we have control over.
Man what is it about words describing levels of awe that makes them shift into broader meanings? See also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rYT0YvQ3hs
http://www.uni-due.de/SHE/HE_Change_Semantic.htm
Expansion, Restriction, Deterioration, Amelioration, Markedness, Metaphor, Reanlysis, truncation, and homophony.
I mean, just think of the word "epic". That seems pretty relevant to that Eddie Izzard clip. Really? An internet post can be epic?
My hope was that this thread would slowly evolve into a philosophy of language thread. One of the issues we could take up is the relationship between etymology and meaning. If a particular word meant X at T1, and later, at T2, means Y, how do we deal with this?
Then trip from that into a conversation about Wittgenstein and the theory of meaning-as-use.
In the past your take on philosophy of language has been very combative and negative towards everyday usage. Have you mellowed?
My pet peeve is people who don't even know the various forms of irony trying to define what is ironic.
Gods bless Oatmeal for they are a wellspring of knowledge.
It's like the easiest word in all of English to complain about
Except for maybe 'ain't', but that just makes you come across as a stuffy grandma
so they're actually wrong.
which
is
ironic.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
since it happens whether we like it or not
you complain about changes in usage, then they change anyway
prescriptivism is just good clean fun and makes you feel superior
in every language game etc
I think he means deal with philosophically, not practically.
I think J, when finding the world odd, blames the world instead of his own sense of 'logic'.
I just read a book by Virginia Woolf that did indeed use "whelmed." Although the meaning was pretty much the same as "overwhelmed."
I don't get the context for "what should we do when word X begins meaning Y instead of Z." In what context? Are you talking about "when updating dictionaries" or "when reading old books" or what? The change itself is inevitable.
I find this sort of thing amusing, but my linguistics has failed me, so I don't recall what it he correct term is.
If you are going to be breaking it up, shouldn't it be "pains-taking"?
I assume the etymology of the word is just, y'know, taking pains
That is correct and the issue to which I refer, rather than the superfluous hyphenation.
Free paid membership? This makes no sense!
Off the top of my head are "eerie" and "aerie" and I'm guessing there are more.
So, uh.
No.
[clause1]; however, [clause2]
So, for example:
I don't care for mayonnaise; however, I admit it's a fundamental part of a proper tuna salad.
So if I'm writing something formal or technical, that's how I use it. For informal writing, I just throw it around willy nilly. And for creative writing, fuck it, all rules are off. (Provided you have a good understanding of what the rules are, and why, precisely, they should be off.)
Only 5-letter q word with 4 vowels!
I like "gypsy" because it's the only five letter word that starts with a g and rhymes with "tipsy"!
It's "12 items or fewer" you dumb supermarket express lines.
Correct:
I am green; however, you are blue.
I am green. However, you are blue.
I am green, but you are blue.
Incorrect:
I am green, however, you are blue.
I am green. But you are blue.
I am green; but you are blue.
The latter two incorrect ones are largely permissible informally, because starting a sentence with a coordinating conjunction is a common stylistic choice with a real function. Using however in the first error example, though, is a glaring error (a comma splice).
“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.”
― Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
People have already posted that. But I don't see it's direct relevance.
So nyah
you colonial you