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[A Song of Ice and Fire, Books and Books+Show] Touch this thread and all shall be spoilt

YarYar Registered User regular
edited May 2012 in Debate and/or Discourse
So I didn't see a new thread yet, and thought I'd make one. Here we discuss primarily the A Song of Ice and Fire series of novels by George R. R. Martin. Lately the discussion is either a) theories about where things are going after the 5th book, A Dance with Dragons, or b) comparing the TV show to the books or otherwise discussing the TV show from the point of view of a current or past reader of the books. If you are familiar with the books, please don't discuss anything in the TV Show thread, not even a "ooohh you guys are going to freak when this thing I can't tell you happens!!!" Because they hate that and I symapthize with them.

That being said, in the TV show thread, several have recently commented about how the pieces are all set into place now, and it's time for the real stuff to start happening.

Sigh!! Three books and ten years later and, like, isn't winter still coming? Though admittedly, there a few instances of serious shizznit going down in store for the show. I can't wait to lurk the TV thread after
Spoiler:

If you are watching the TV shows, and have not read at least that far in the books, you seriously need to G da F O.

EDIT: More on spoiling: Ok, so reading through the thread, I'm reminded that as the OP, I get some amount of leeway to suggest spoilage policies. Yes, this is the spoilage thread. We WILL be loose about what we do or don't tag. The general industry standard is that a spoiler is only something that involves unpublished material. If the book is published or the show has aired on the east coast, it's not a spoiler. However, to avoid chaos and murder, this thread should be a bit more careful than that.

If every single post is in spoiler tags, then we are tagging too much. I'm suggesting tags on any super-major events from the books, particularly the last book, but they've all been out a while so don't try too hard. In keeping with the recent change in the TV show thread, I'm suggesting OPEN SPOILERS on anything that has been aired on the East Coast, except scenes from next week, that's still spoily. I'm also suggesting that if you haven't read all the books and seen the latest episode, you stay out, because I would prefer that we be able to 1) have a discussion that isn't entirely in tags, and 2) be able to actually put real spoilers of future shit in spoiler tags without everyone assuming it's not really a spoiler.

So what does all that vague spoiler talk really mean?

#1 rule is no crying about something being spoiled, assuming it's already published material. If you haven't read all the books AND seen every aired show, then you are forbidden from accusing someone else of spoiling something for you. If you're posting an interview with GRRM where he talks about stuff that will happen in Book 6, yeah, that is the very epitome of a spoiler and must be tagged.

#2 rule, less important than #1, is to use your own best judgment and put tags around some things, like maybe details of TRW, or R-L-J theories, or major stuff from Book 5. Definitely anything about a show that hasn't aired (besides what we know from the books), or confirmed plot facts in books not yet published. Someone could very well click this thread by accident instead of the TV one, and they sure has hell don't want to see this in non-tagged form:
(major spoilers from books 3 - 5)
Spoiler:

#3 rule is to try to do what I did above and preface your spoiler tags with a very brief description of what kind of spoiler it is and about when it occurs in the series.

Yar on
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Posts

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I just bought Dances with Dragons. I'm going slow so GRRM has time to write.

    I should re-read the first books and catch up with the TV show, that actually sounds like fun.

    Malkor on
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  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Cross-posting the official announcement of Season 3.

    Book 3 is totally awesome, and they are considering spending two seasons on it. Which would be awesome for many reasons. 1) HBO gets another season of subscribers out of this deal. 2) Book 3 is not only the longest book IIRC, but also conversely packs the most excitement and plot twist per page. The most memorable game-changing and series-defining moments happen in that book, and every chapter is a roller-coaster of yippee! and NOOOO!, so they can definitely pack 2 seasons of episodes full of great entertainment. 3) GRRM gets another year to finish his books before the show outpaces him.

    On the flipside, it would make me worry even more about how dang old some of these kids are going to be by the end of the series.

    Yar on
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    Yessss I support that idea.

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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    The worst part is deciding where to end Season 3.
    Spoiler:

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Episode 7 is titled "autumn storms" and grrm will be writing it

    Season 1 he wrote Baelor
    This season he's writing Blackwater

    I'd guess that these Autumn Storms include some... rain.

    Also it's probably a good approach to do it in episode 7, that's no way to end a season

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    That would be way early, wouldn't it? Actually, I'm gonna go check.

    Yeah, so:
    Spoiler:

    enlightenedbum on
    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    When TRW happens, my wife is going flip. She was so pissed when
    Spoiler:
    dies. I've never seen her hate rant on fiction (or anything) before.

    It was and will be glorious!
    Spoiler:

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    It would be a lot earlier than the books, but I think they could probably make it happen. Jon and Dany's storylines aren't effected by when that scene happens, Jaime's probably going to have an episode or two on the road already in season 2, so you'd have time there, and then Arya's travelogue will be pretty easy to fit in I'd think... Plus this way they can end contracts with a bunch of actors in season 3, making life a lot easier on them for 4.

    I think you could probably make that work. It'll probably feel weird to book readers but it'd work out in terms of plot logistics

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
    MadCaddy
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    It would be a lot earlier than the books, but I think they could probably make it happen. Jon and Dany's storylines aren't effected by when that scene happens, Jaime's probably going to have an episode or two on the road already in season 2, so you'd have time there, and then Arya's travelogue will be pretty easy to fit in I'd think... Plus this way they can end contracts with a bunch of actors in season 3, making life a lot easier on them for 4.

    I think you could probably make that work. It'll probably feel weird to book readers but it'd work out in terms of plot logistics

    I don't see how you get 13 episodes afterwards though.
    Spoiler:

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Well, remember they haven't said they're going to use two FULL seasons for book 3. Just that they can't possibly fit it into 10 episodes. So season 4, if we get that far, will then be starting in on some of books 4/5

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    So you're thinking like, 15 on book three and then 15 for both 4/5? I'm not sure that works either. There's a lot of bloat in 4/5 but not THAT much.

    Plus not ending a season on
    Spoiler:

    would be criminal.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I don't know, I'd think TRW would be better for mid to late season so that after the shitstorm, people can feel relieved after
    Spoiler:
    dies.

    One tragedy at the end of a season is fine to really drive that point home that it's a dark tone story, another can turn off fans.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Well, I'd just say one of the biggest reasons to know they're going to have THAT scene in season 3, besides the episode title and that GRRM is writing it, is that it makes a lot of sense from a production standpoint. You don't want to sign a bunch of actors for a season only to use them for a couple episodes.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    My bet would be that they end Season 3 with (or right around)
    Spoiler:

    That might be way too late, though, I don't have the books around for reference.

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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Well, I'd just say one of the biggest reasons to know they're going to have THAT scene in season 3, besides the episode title and that GRRM is writing it, is that it makes a lot of sense from a production standpoint. You don't want to sign a bunch of actors for a season only to use them for a couple episodes.

    Contract reasons is a very compelling reason, and I think they can probably shuffle things around enough to get away with it. It's especially true with how big the cast grows in book 3.

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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Another possibility:
    Spoiler:

    sig.png
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Well, I'd just say one of the biggest reasons to know they're going to have THAT scene in season 3, besides the episode title and that GRRM is writing it, is that it makes a lot of sense from a production standpoint. You don't want to sign a bunch of actors for a season only to use them for a couple episodes.

    That's a fair point, but...
    Spoiler:

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Well, I'd just say one of the biggest reasons to know they're going to have THAT scene in season 3, besides the episode title and that GRRM is writing it, is that it makes a lot of sense from a production standpoint. You don't want to sign a bunch of actors for a season only to use them for a couple episodes.

    That's a fair point, but...
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    sig.png
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Well, I'd just say one of the biggest reasons to know they're going to have THAT scene in season 3, besides the episode title and that GRRM is writing it, is that it makes a lot of sense from a production standpoint. You don't want to sign a bunch of actors for a season only to use them for a couple episodes.

    That's a fair point, but...
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Well, I'd just say one of the biggest reasons to know they're going to have THAT scene in season 3, besides the episode title and that GRRM is writing it, is that it makes a lot of sense from a production standpoint. You don't want to sign a bunch of actors for a season only to use them for a couple episodes.

    That's a fair point, but...
    Spoiler:

    It's not just major players.
    Spoiler:

    Reflecting on it, Season 3 may focus on the North and Season 4 may focus on the South. Not exclusively, obviously, but it would make a good split.
    Spoiler:

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Yeah, it would probably be a good idea to end season 3 with Jon preparing to defend the wall, it would be a good way to entice viewers back for season 4.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    When SoS was split into two books, how did they end the first?

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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    When SoS was split into two books, how did they end the first?

    That is an excellent and obvious question that I do not know the answer to.

    sig.png
  • MaclayMaclay Registered User regular
    Checking on Amazon (UK) looks like the first ended with Jon escaping and heading back to the Wall.

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  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    Oh for fuck's sake, I cannot handle the Show thread anymore. Even as someone who has not read the books, the idea that "OMFG, you mentioned a character is getting too much screen time! That's a huge spoiler because now I know its different!" is flat-out ridiculous. I can't even fathom that level of terror over something like that.

    That said, I'm really looking forward to seeing how the show develops its own identity. Its rare that someone who creates a story has the chance to go back and change things later. And the chance to take a small change and explore how that ripples through an entire epic? That is a pretty cool concept to see play out.

    PSN for Destiny Shenanigans: SAW776
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  • So It GoesSo It Goes Do I have something on my face?Registered User regular
    ep 2 kind of made me worried about the upcoming character bloat for later seasons

    I mean they are already cutting down/combining characters and it's still impossible to give these great actors enough screen time!

    NOPE.
  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    ep 2 kind of made me worried about the upcoming character bloat for later seasons

    I mean they are already cutting down/combining characters and it's still impossible to give these great actors enough screen time!

    It is kinda scary that if the show does not get cancelled and is going to cover the whole series, that will be at least 8 seasons. 10 one hour episodes per season, that's about 80 hours for the whole show and still they wouldn't have had everyone and everything covered from the books. Just crazy how much stuff and details are in the books. :bz

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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    I was complaining in the show thread because someone let a spoiler slip that is a plot point from book 2 or 3, and someone took that to mean that I was complaining about Ros or whatever. That's fine, the Ros discussion distracts them from the actual spoiler.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I debated for a very long time before I pointed out the guest right being important in this world thing, even tangentially. I'm trying to be super paranoid about it.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • HeisenbergHeisenberg Registered User regular
    Spoiler:

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Heisenberg wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    It kind of seems like...
    Spoiler:

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Heisenberg wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    I just don't see that happening.
    Spoiler:

    Tomanta on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Heisenberg wrote: »
    Spoiler:

    I just don't see that happening.
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Registered User regular
    Why are we spoilering stuff?

    STOP SPOILERING STUFF! THIS IS THE THREAD OF SPOIL!

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    OP says tag 'em. I think the thread title is just to keep out the sort who would rather not know Ros does not exist.

    Speaking of whom!

    If Martin aims to keep her around, it would mean she could never meaningfully interact with the main POVs. "How could this be, and how could it benefit my enjoyment?" I wondered, and I think I might rather enjoy it she joined the clergy or the sparrows to give a us a POV there.

    Perhaps after
    Spoiler:

    (For those that dared enter despite the title: That's an every-book spoiler, not an Episode 2 spoiler.)

    (Of sorts)

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I was thinking about this earlier, I wonder if Ros could end up joining / assisting the Antler Men (was that their name?)

    I'm not sure if the logical ending to that plotline would be hilarious or just cruel... Probably the latter.

    Plus I doubt the Antler Men would really let her join even if she wanted to, it was sort of an upper-class thing, as I remember.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    That doesn't feel quite right. She's a regular Jane Q. Smallfolk, I can't see her getting mixed up in the political grumblings of merchants and the like.

    Though, as a high-class sexpositor, we could certainly learn of the Antler-men through her.

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Yeah, I mean there's no way she'd be a ringleader, but possibly as a messenger-type? In plot terms she's pretty well-placed to show us the antler men.

    Although then they'd have to like, actually cast Antler Men, they might be happier to just leave it as Varys going, "Oh hey, found some more conspirators, look how helpful I am!"

    Which I'm always reminded of when Jaime talks about how Varys was always happy to point out any conspiracies the Mad King failed to imagine. There was always the feeling that in lieu of real conspirators, Varys might simply provide some in order to appear invaluable.

    History is an account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools.
  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter Registered User regular
    I was told to shut the fuck up when I asked my friends who are watching the show "Yo has Stannis shown up yet"

    they lost their shit

    "oh no we know the name of a character!"

    Then that episode he was there

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  • HeisenbergHeisenberg Registered User regular
    Stannis was mentioned in season 1. Your friends are fools.

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