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[A Song of Ice and Fire, Books and Books+Show] Touch this thread and all shall be spoilt

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Posts

  • Billy ChenowithBilly Chenowith Registered User regular
    valiance wrote: »
    meaning roose bolton? why was roose pissed again? or you mean lord karstark who by that point has already been killed?
    Spoiler:

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Roose turned because he a) wanted to be warden of the north and b) had run the numbers/looked at a map and worked out the long term presence of the Northern Army in the Riverlands was utterly untenable. Since the south has much more men, and the riverlands are indefensible (which is why they kept on being conquered by the Iron Islanders prior to the Targaryens), unless the Northerners achieved their goals in the first year or so they were doomed to fail. Robb confirming Roose opinion of him as an honourbound idiot (a relationship they're already building with that conversation about flaying in the latest episode) is just the final straw.

  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    valiance wrote: »
    meaning roose bolton? why was roose pissed again? or you mean lord karstark who by that point has already been killed?
    Spoiler:

    Frey. He meant Walder Frey.

    But, yeah. Robb Marrying Jeyne had absolutely nothing to do with her being the daughter of a Lord. It was because he slept with her and didn't want to

    a. ruin her marriage prospects
    b. have a bastard who would be treated like his brother Jon.

    As has been said it was her honour over his.

    So when you look at it its really Catelyn's fault for the way she treated Jon Snow![/sarcasm]


    Domhnall on
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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Everything is her fault.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited April 2012
    A random aside, posted here because this feels like the best place to ask.

    http://www.gameofthrones-thegame.com/

    Anyone hear ANYTHING about this game, good or bad?

    syndalis on
  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    Its not out yet, is it? I have heard that Cyanide studios (the guys who made Blood Bowl and GoT Genesis) aren't the best development studio. However Atlus is a pretty great publisher so... No...I have not. :p

    Trailer and conbat preview video.
    Spoiler:

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Domhnall wrote: »
    valiance wrote: »
    meaning roose bolton? why was roose pissed again? or you mean lord karstark who by that point has already been killed?
    Spoiler:

    Frey. He meant Walder Frey.

    But, yeah. Robb Marrying Jeyne had absolutely nothing to do with her being the daughter of a Lord. It was because he slept with her and didn't want to

    a. ruin her marriage prospects
    b. have a bastard who would be treated like his brother Jon.

    As has been said it was her honour over his.

    So when you look at it its really Catelyn's fault for the way she treated Jon Snow![/sarcasm]

    I don't think you are getting that the only reason he gave a shit about ruining her marriage prospects and such is because she's the daughter of a Lord.

    Had she been some random peasant, he might have felt bad about it, but people would have just slapped him and told him to move on. A King doesn't marry a commoner cause he fucks her.

  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I guess I should have put B as A because thats the much more important one.

    edit:

    Although....that may just be my own spin on it and it may not even say that in the literature. I have a tendency to skip Catleyn chapters when I reread or read a chapter or two when I'm bored.

    Anyway, Oona of Volantis may actually be a lord equivalent of Volantis so the whole story may be much the same except for the Tywin influence (which would be a shame).

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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    syndalis wrote: »
    A random aside, posted here because this feels like the best place to ask.

    http://www.gameofthrones-thegame.com/

    Anyone hear ANYTHING about this game, good or bad?

    Little is known about it, but it's not (completely) a generic "IP tie-in". It's been in development for a couple of years; is based on Unreal Engine 3; the story has been vetted by Martin; HBO has granted the studio the rights to use the actor likenesses and props from the show.

    There are two characters, one of whom is a skinchanger from the south (which aggravates me) with a pet dog. He's been banished to the Wall for one reason or another. He can warg into the dog to find secrets and track people by their scent. [heavy sarcasm]Joy[/heavy sarcasm].

    The other is a guy who is sent into exile on Essos and becomes a red priest. He can look into the flames to find clues and such. One of the press release lines talk about this guy gaining access to fire magic at a high level; this bothers me, but until I see how they implement it, I'm just going to remain skeptical.

    The combat system is considered "innovative", and features a sort of real-time pause, from what I understand. There's a video. I haven't watched it.

    From what I remember (I can't find the press release at the moment), there are archetypes you choose after selecting your character - Rangers, Sellswords and Hedge Knights were mentioned, I think. At a certain point (or points, maybe) you specialize your base archetype - Hedge Knight becomes Landed Knight.

    My very skeptical nature insists they are using the terms from the books without really understanding where those terms come from and the context each implies. Further, I am worried that they're going to reduce each of these archetypes to the generic Rogue, Warrior, Mage group, and attendant hybrids.

    The sister studio, responsible for the "RTS" A Game of Thrones: Genesis did an abysmal job with respect to the lore; the game was fairly buggy; and it wasn't nearly as detailed as I would have liked.

    edit: Forgot to mention the time-frame. Takes place during A Game of Thrones, and will end around the time that book ends.


    Time will tell.

    Tamin on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    I saw the RTS and immediately thought King Arthur.

    So much potential, such poor execution.

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    That video definitely made the game look better then the initial trailer I watched did. Still going to wait for some reviews to pop up before considering it, and even then wait for it to go on sale at steam. :P

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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    That video definitely made the game look better then the initial trailer I watched did. Still going to wait for some reviews to pop up before considering it, and even then wait for it to go on sale at steam. :P

    Yeah, absolutely wait for a sale. The only reason I have Genesis is because it was on sale for $10 at Christmas, and I had a faint hope that I could try to mod it to be better.

  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    I would rather some sort of mod or official expansion for Mount & Blade or Crusader Kings 2 than that game.

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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    I would rather some sort of mod or official expansion for Mount & Blade or Crusader Kings 2 than that game.

    As much as I like Mount & Blade, I'm not sure it has the right perspective. Too much of the game is focused on combat (from what I've seen), or running about, visiting villages and hiring peasants to work for you.

    The minor lord or knight who is in charge of that village would probably hunt you down if you tried to hire his peasants. A peasant raising what amounts to a peasant army would not be tolerated.

    Which leaves the player as a minor noble (littlefinger), a boy from Flea Bottom (Davos), a member of a sellsword company, a sellsword (Bronn), a hedge knight (Ser Duncan), a sworn sword (The Hound, I guess), a bastard child of a noble (Jon, Mya), an exiled noble (Dany, Jorah).

    While there's no difficulty in designing the game to allow a similar starting point, the fans would yell and scream if the developers didn't let them follow the exact same path. "Select Sellsword - be in tavern when Tyrion gets kidnapped - become best buddies - become a knight - become a lord". Obsessive fans have a limited imagination, I've found.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to explore an interactive map of Westeros. From the Wall to the Arbor, just walking along, getting a true sense of the scale of the place. Hell, throw in Essos and Sothoryos and the Summer Islands, as well. Not as a character, but as a camera: Assassin's Creed and Rome; Google Earth.

    When the player becomes a character, the developer / designer has to have a victory condition. Ascending with the Amulet of Yendor; Defeating Mother Brain; becoming Queen of the realm ... and, especially in a realistic, gritty world like Westeros, it simply isn't the case that any 'origin' you choose can have the same victory condition: a landed knight can't become king, without plot! dictating that he's the long lost third cousin twice removed of a bastard son of the fifth daughter of a king, and the entire line of succession just happens to have been wiped out. Next, death has to mean something. When you die, you wouldn't simply reload; that character would be dead. Same with being sent to the Wall. Unless there's an adaptive random story generator, or something.

    Along the same lines, with player-as-character, the player's options are limited: a hedge knight has no money - it is unlikely he'll be sailing to Essos. A noble has responsibilities - he can't simply abscond. Further, a noble and a knight would have incredibly different gameplay mechanics.

    It becomes very difficult to allow the player-as-character free reign throughout the world without compromising the world's lore; The Elder Scrolls get around this by making the character special - Dragonborn, Nerevarine, and so on - and by not allowing the player to make any lasting changes.


    whoa. This got very long. I haven't really considered any of this before, so I'm sure there are plenty of logical holes and it's quite likely I'm over-thinking it. Apologies.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    I think people would accept a game where it takes place across multiple characters (maybe 3?), each "chapter" being a storied sequence of events you get to play out, with Mass Effect style dialog trees, and difficult, realistic combat.

    Characters should also totally be allowed to die, and when that happens they have no further chapters, but you hear about what was happening in their neck of the woods as a result of their death.

    Essentially, write a different "possible" story for each character as if they died on each chapter, and find a way to weave it all together over 20 hours or so.

    The replayability would be insane, and it would feel in line with the lore and harshness of the world.

    I would play this game.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    I think people would accept a game where it takes place across multiple characters (maybe 3?), each "chapter" being a storied sequence of events you get to play out, with Mass Effect style dialog trees, and difficult, realistic combat.

    Characters should also totally be allowed to die, and when that happens they have no further chapters, but you hear about what was happening in their neck of the woods as a result of their death.

    Essentially, write a different "possible" story for each character as if they died on each chapter, and find a way to weave it all together over 20 hours or so.

    The replayability would be insane, and it would feel in line with the lore and harshness of the world.

    I would play this game.

    well....

    I'll try! I've actually been working on a "difficult, realistic" combat system for a couple of months now. Been prototyping it as a card game. If you're interested, I could send you the concepts.

  • InkSplatInkSplat 100%ed Bad Rats. Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    I think people would accept a game where it takes place across multiple characters (maybe 3?), each "chapter" being a storied sequence of events you get to play out, with Mass Effect style dialog trees, and difficult, realistic combat.

    Characters should also totally be allowed to die, and when that happens they have no further chapters, but you hear about what was happening in their neck of the woods as a result of their death.

    Essentially, write a different "possible" story for each character as if they died on each chapter, and find a way to weave it all together over 20 hours or so.

    The replayability would be insane, and it would feel in line with the lore and harshness of the world.

    I would play this game.

    So, Heavy Rain: Winter Edition? :P

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  • THESPOOKYTHESPOOKY There's no room for "gods" in my town. Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Domhnall wrote: »
    valiance wrote: »
    meaning roose bolton? why was roose pissed again? or you mean lord karstark who by that point has already been killed?
    Spoiler:

    Frey. He meant Walder Frey.

    But, yeah. Robb Marrying Jeyne had absolutely nothing to do with her being the daughter of a Lord. It was because he slept with her and didn't want to

    a. ruin her marriage prospects
    b. have a bastard who would be treated like his brother Jon.

    As has been said it was her honour over his.

    So when you look at it its really Catelyn's fault for the way she treated Jon Snow![/sarcasm]

    I don't think you are getting that the only reason he gave a shit about ruining her marriage prospects and such is because she's the daughter of a Lord.

    Had she been some random peasant, he might have felt bad about it, but people would have just slapped him and told him to move on. A King doesn't marry a commoner cause he fucks her.

    He married her because he fell in love, which he tells everyone who calls him crazy, fairly often.

    4pPO9UB.png
  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    I would rather some sort of mod or official expansion for Mount & Blade or Crusader Kings 2 than that game.

    There's a Westeros mod for Crusader Kings 2 in the works. I think its by the same people who did the Crusader Kings 1 Westeros mod but I can't be sure. Comradebot in the PI thread is in the beta (alpha?) for it. Can't wait for it to come out.

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  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    I dont like the fact that this nurse is replacing Jayne. It makes Rob look even less of a noble lord. In the books this situation was just pushed on you out of nowhere. Rob shows up with his "uh oh" and his mom has to try to rush to fix things with the Freys. It is when about then when Rob's power starts to wane with the incident with the Karstarks etc. I dont like this choice at all. The time could have been spent on other fluff and not trying to flesh out Rob's falling for a character that didnt even exist in the books. The real character didnt even exist in the books but as a plot device for the Red Wedding.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    THESPOOKY wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Domhnall wrote: »
    valiance wrote: »
    meaning roose bolton? why was roose pissed again? or you mean lord karstark who by that point has already been killed?
    Spoiler:

    Frey. He meant Walder Frey.

    But, yeah. Robb Marrying Jeyne had absolutely nothing to do with her being the daughter of a Lord. It was because he slept with her and didn't want to

    a. ruin her marriage prospects
    b. have a bastard who would be treated like his brother Jon.

    As has been said it was her honour over his.

    So when you look at it its really Catelyn's fault for the way she treated Jon Snow![/sarcasm]

    I don't think you are getting that the only reason he gave a shit about ruining her marriage prospects and such is because she's the daughter of a Lord.

    Had she been some random peasant, he might have felt bad about it, but people would have just slapped him and told him to move on. A King doesn't marry a commoner cause he fucks her.

    He married her because he fell in love, which he tells everyone who calls him crazy, fairly often.

    But again, she was a noble. This makes it silly but ok.

    The King doesn't marry a peasant. This shit doesn't fly. A minor noble might marry a rich merchant (what Jeyne's father did in the book), but that's considered pathetic. That's "I'm on my last legs and can't find a decent match and god I need the money".

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    I dont like the fact that this nurse is replacing Jayne.

    Do we know for a fact that she's not actually Jeyne? She was awful coy when she was giving Robb her details. Wouldn't be the first time a woman gave an evasive answer when a guy was looking for her contact info.

    But... no. You're right. My theory would imply that the show is fucking with us, and Game of Thrones wouldn't do that. Not this show. :bz:

    Dracomicron on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Do we know for a fact that she's not actually Jeyne? She was awful coy when she was giving Robb her details. Wouldn't be the first time a woman gave an evasive answer when a guy was looking for her contact info.

    I guess when noble men ask noble women out in Westeros they ask for a cage of ravens from their castle's rookery. :)

    And if the noble girls are being coquettish, they might give the guy the wrong raven!

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Do we know for a fact that she's not actually Jeyne? She was awful coy when she was giving Robb her details. Wouldn't be the first time a woman gave an evasive answer when a guy was looking for her contact info.

    I guess when noble men ask noble women out in Westeros they ask for a cage of ravens from their castle's rookery. :)

    And if the noble girls are being coquettish, they might give the guy the wrong raven!

    That's what I'm saying. I bet a lot of girls do the Westeros equivilant of giving a telephone number like 328-694-6367 (EAT-MY-HODOR).

    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    I dont like the fact that this nurse is replacing Jayne.

    Do we know for a fact that she's not actually Jeyne? She was awful coy when she was giving Robb her details. Wouldn't be the first time a woman gave an evasive answer when a guy was looking for her contact info.

    But... no. You're right. My theory would imply that the show is fucking with us, and Game of Thrones wouldn't do that. Not this show. :bz:

    The only real evidence one way or the other is that, when Oona was hired, HBO gave out information that she was playing a "Jeyne". Without a last name.

  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    Well this character is already more interesting than Jeyne, whose book characterization basically painted her as not much more than a pretty young lapse of judgement.

    That said, when the show starts veering off from the books like it seems to be doing here (or like discussed earlier with Brienne and her first actual kill), I hope it replaces some of the subtlety of plot and character that we had with something fitting instead.
    Spoiler:

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  • DVGDVG Registered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    I dont like the fact that this nurse is replacing Jayne.

    Do we know for a fact that she's not actually Jeyne? She was awful coy when she was giving Robb her details. Wouldn't be the first time a woman gave an evasive answer when a guy was looking for her contact info.

    But... no. You're right. My theory would imply that the show is fucking with us, and Game of Thrones wouldn't do that. Not this show. :bz:

    I guess I assumed it was Jayne. In the book the only thing that's really said of her before marrying Robb is that she nursed him back to health after he took an arrow in the battle and her father was a lesser Lanister Bannerman. It seemed a natural extension of her character to be roaming Lanister lands trying to help people out during the war, and it gives a little more substance to the relationship other than "I got hurt, she helped me, we banged."

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  • Katsuhiro 1139Katsuhiro 1139 Dublin, IrelandRegistered User regular
    Man, that television-only thread is hilarious.

    "I don't think the Freys are going to care about Robb blowing off his engagement, that guy Walder is totally weak anyway."

    Ahahha, you illterate fools!

  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel Building an empire OsloRegistered User regular
    That is pretty delicious.

    Fuck off and die.
  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I think she'll end up being Jeyne and she wasn't being totally honest with Robb.

    Anyways, was reading an interesting theory that Jeyne may have been switched and escaped with Brandon, possibly while pregnant. It hinges on her younger sister never being mentioned to Jaime or in fact at all, Jaime describing her hips as narrow and Cat describing the original's as wide and her doing things to obscure her face under the guise of mourning. Essentially her siblings were loyal to Robb and worked to help her escape and the mom went along with it after the fact to protect the family (hence the faux-Jeyne, the sister, emotion and why the mom slapped her.)

    Also brought up was that she's a descendant of Maggie the Frog, and could be the younger, prettier queen to bring down Cersei.

    The pregnancy is explained as either the mother was lying (really was giving fertility potions and lied to the Lannisters) or Jeyne or her attendants figured it out and never took it.

    Invisible on
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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    That's a very interesting theory, especially since
    Spoiler:

    camo_sig2.png
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Invisible wrote: »
    I think she'll end up being Jeyne and she wasn't being totally honest with Robb.

    Anyways, was reading an interesting theory that Jeyne may have been switched and escaped with Brandon, possibly while pregnant. It hinges on her younger sister never being mentioned to Jaime or in fact at all, Jaime describing her hips as narrow and Cat describing the original's as wide and her doing things to obscure her face under the guise of mourning. Essentially her siblings were loyal to Robb and worked to help her escape and the mom went along with it after the fact to protect the family (hence the faux-Jeyne, the sister, emotion and why the mom slapped her.)

    Also brought up was that she's a descendant of Maggie the Frog, and could be the younger, prettier queen to bring down Cersei.

    The pregnancy is explained as either the mother was lying (really was giving fertility potions and lied to the Lannisters) or Jeyne or her attendants figured it out and never took it.

    Glancing through Storm of Swords, I find this difficult to believe: Jeyne's sister is a full four years younger. But, mind posting the full theory?

    Tamin on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    That is pretty delicious.

    I have been chatting with my non book friends that I got hooked on the show. The ignorant fools. I keep telling them that shit goes down this season and the next but they are unaware of the magnitude.

    One friend said "Why was Mel in pain when she was giving brith to that shadow thingy? Wouldnt it essentially be just a queef?" I lold pretty hard.

    steam_sig.png
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    That is pretty delicious.

    I have been chatting with my non book friends that I got hooked on the show. The ignorant fools. I keep telling them that shit goes down this season and the next but they are unaware of the magnitude.

    One friend said "Why was Mel in pain when she was giving brith to that shadow thingy? Wouldnt it essentially be just a queef?" I lold pretty hard.

    They called it a shadow without prompting? That fills me with confidence.

  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    That's pretty much the summary. I found it on some forum while browsing on my phone. It's really just Elenya Westerling isn't mentioned at all to the Lannisters despite being in Riverrun, while Jeyne and her brothers are, Cat and Jaime's hip descriptions don't match (author discrepancy or age difference), Jeyne shreds her clothes and covers her face in mourning (actual mourning or disguising her face and body), Jeyne's brothers were fiercely loyal to Robb and Martin has described the Westerlings as having secrets even within themselves. And being descended from Maggy the Frog (I don't if this is hard confirmed or just strongly implied), adds to the possibility that she would be the one to directly cause Cersei's fall.

    The wiki has a very short write up on it, I just found: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jeyne_Westerling/Theories

    It's kind of an out there theory.

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  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    Invisible wrote: »
    That's pretty much the summary. I found it on some forum while browsing on my phone. It's really just Elenya Westerling isn't mentioned at all to the Lannisters despite being in Riverrun, while Jeyne and her brothers are, Cat and Jaime's hip descriptions don't match (author discrepancy or age difference), Jeyne shreds her clothes and covers her face in mourning (actual mourning or disguising her face and body), Jeyne's brothers were fiercely loyal to Robb and Martin has described the Westerlings as having secrets even within themselves. And being descended from Maggy the Frog (I don't if this is hard confirmed or just strongly implied), adds to the possibility that she would be the one to directly cause Cersei's fall.

    The wiki has a very short write up on it, I just found: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jeyne_Westerling/Theories

    It's kind of an out there theory.

    it is, but very neat. thanks, good read.

    I missed that frey was the subject of the last quote somehow, whoops

  • Katsuhiro 1139Katsuhiro 1139 Dublin, IrelandRegistered User regular
    Does anyone else find Maergery Tyrell's characterisation to be a bit too overtly political? I raised this in the other thread, as it was something my mum* and I noticed. The actress is very talented - and strangely pretty, if not beautiful in the way I had imagined - but I do prefer the book Maergery. From a character standpoint, the book version plays a much longer, much more subtle game. Particularly with regard to how ... chaste she is. It was one of the plot points in A Feast For Crows which I found really engaging.

    * A word of praise for my mother - I watched the first two episodes of the first season with her, then she read all of the books. Now we both sit there and snidely snigger at my younger brother, who comes out with such classics as "I can't wait until Ned escapes!" and "I can't wait until Robb finally kills Joffrey!".

    Much derisive cackling ensues. It almost borders on psychological child abuse.

    I also take great delight in telling him "false" spoilers which are actually completely true.
    Spoiler:

  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    Most likely they've just combined Margery and the Queen of Thorns into one character. We don't really get an idea of how political or savvy she is in the books other than she's competent; much of what we learn is from her grandmother, who is much more like show-Margery. Plus it balances out Renly, who doesn't seem very politically adept, people like him, but he's no Littlefinger, Varys or Tyrion and since he doesn't have magic on his side, he needs her to play the game. And it'll make her an actual threat to Cersei, she won't be the cowed girl Sansa is with the queen.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    When Sansa warns Margery of Hoff's sadistic nature, Margie thanks her and dismisses it. That scene sold me on Margery as being plenty involved in the Game. Especially if it was meant to imply that she knew
    Spoiler:

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    She'd also be an incredibly boring character if she were book-Margaery. Though the Queen of Thorns damn well better be making an appearance next year. Plus she'd be a great explanation of exactly how show-Margaery became show-Margaery and that's all to the good.

    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
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