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[StarCraft2] POST IN THE NEW THREAD. DIABLO KILLED THIS ONE.

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Posts

  • PoolCuePoolCue Registered User regular
    would an auto attacking marine take longer to kill an overlord with this change?

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    Anyone who is decent at terran want to come online and help me test something?

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    It wouldn't take any longer to kill, but they won't be vulnerable to fire for as long

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I think it might though, if you're not controlling the marine and the overlord gets away faster, it should survive longer.

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  • itswebitsweb Registered User regular
    I don't think terran should be able to snipe an early overlord in most situations now if the zerg knows what hes doing

  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    Thoughts on those proposed balance changes:

    DOOM! DOOM AND GLOOM FOR TERRAN! BEWARE TERRAN THE END IS NIGH! THE DAYS OF THE 2RAX ARE OVERRRRR

  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    Before you say they are over, I still use that build, and it still works.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    So I tested overlord movement speed on antiga prime if you send an overlord straight to your opponents base.

    If you get lucky and they spawn close and you guess right, then your overlord will reach their base right about the time that the barracks is halfway done. Plenty of time to safely scout two rax or other such shenanigans.

    If you send it across map and they are there, then your overlord arrives right about the time the barracks finishes. Still a pretty decent amount of time to scout.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    haha. Kambing is the OP for the team liquid post. He's famous.

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Can't you tell whether or not it's a 2Rax from the Drone scout?

    I figured this change was to help scouting follow-ups to Gas.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Can't you tell whether or not it's a 2Rax from the Drone scout?

    I figured this change was to help scouting follow-ups to Gas.

    Sure, but if you could get away without pulling a drone, wouldn't you?

    Not saying you can or anything

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    I doubt you'll even need to drone scout anymore.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I doubt you'll even need to drone scout anymore.

    exactly. at least on 1v1 maps

  • KeamienKeamien Registered User regular
    I think its sortof obvious if i'm doing a 2rax. Lower worker count, no gas etc etc

  • redraptorredraptor Registered User regular
    iNcontroL wrote:
    Day9 said he is too busy and doesn't have time for SOTG on a regular basis. He will pop on from time to time

    The band is breaking up!

  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    it can be hard to tell the difference between 12/14 and 1rax fe. Of course, 12/14 is much easier to hold.

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    Keamien wrote: »
    I think its sortof obvious if i'm doing a 2rax. Lower worker count, no gas etc etc

    Yeah, sure. It's not hard to scout, but it's what you scout with that matters. After testing overlord speed, I'm pretty sure scouting on 1v1 maps can be done with just an overlord now, as it seems the overlord can get to the terran base right when the first barracks finishes, which means they can scout the whole base with the overlord before the first marine pops.

    Don't get me wrong, as a zerg I'm super happy about this, but it does seem pretty drastic.

  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    redraptor wrote: »
    iNcontroL wrote:
    Day9 said he is too busy and doesn't have time for SOTG on a regular basis. He will pop on from time to time

    The band is breaking up!
    I'm happy it's official. he generally was the least interesting imo, always left early if he showed up. I'm glad they don't have to consider him when they plan the show.

    not to sound like I hate day9 or anything, I enjoy him, but I won't miss him on that show.

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  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    this could be dead wrong, but just having the overlord in their base should provide info. if the marine just leaves it's a rush. this never comes up if the overlord can't get to the base fast enough... but maybe I am putting to much stock into that.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    It will be nice if zergs stop drone scouting though. Those things are even more annoying than probes.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    I like drone scouting so i can gas steal if i reactor hellions. always nice to see the two marines shooting my geyser, not trying to get into a bunker by my nat

  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    I'm surprised there's not more conversation about this. But maybe I'm just excited because they've literally buffed the areas of my play style that I'm the worst at. They could have announced they were giving infestors back their original damage and I wouldn't have been as excited.

  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    argh free loss, my power went out. hesitant to play again... just flickered but I think there's a storm going.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    i'm surprised the observer change isn't getting more discussion, but i suppose its not very interesting in itself

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    argh free loss, my power went out. hesitant to play again... just flickered but I think there's a storm going.

    i hope you're surge protected.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I complained about it, I'm not sure what else can be said :P. I just don't see why it's necessary but if it means tvp goes to the lategame more I'm actually for it so that shit gets figured out or, if necessary, helped out.

    but honestly it doesn't even seem to be weird midgame stuff that's fucking toss up anymore, it's more the very early game.

    really though the only way that it hurts is it's less robo build time punishment if toss lets their obs get sniped. but that's looking for something.

    Variable on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    I complained about it, I'm not sure what else can be said :P. I just don't see why it's necessary but if it means tvp goes to the lategame more I'm actually for it so that shit gets figured out or, if necessary, helped out.

    but honestly it doesn't even seem to be weird midgame stuff that's fucking toss up anymore, it's more the very early game.

    really though the only way that it hurts is it's less robo build time punishment if toss lets their obs get sniped. but that's looking for something.

    Well, it will now be possible to get out three observers where before you could only get two in the same time frame, assuming you chronoboosted. That should help midgame against multi pronged drops.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • fatalspoonsfatalspoons Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    I complained about it, I'm not sure what else can be said :P. I just don't see why it's necessary but if it means tvp goes to the lategame more I'm actually for it so that shit gets figured out or, if necessary, helped out.

    but honestly it doesn't even seem to be weird midgame stuff that's fucking toss up anymore, it's more the very early game.

    really though the only way that it hurts is it's less robo build time punishment if toss lets their obs get sniped. but that's looking for something.

    Well, it will now be possible to get out three observers where before you could only get two in the same time frame, assuming you chronoboosted. That should help midgame against multi pronged drops.

    Honestly I think the main reason they made the change is to help protoss in the early game against terran. And not so much that it allows you to get out an observer 10 seconds earlier, but moreso that you can get out an immortal ten seconds earlier. I think it's a decent change but I don't understand why they chose to address tvp early game and not pvt late game

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    I complained about it, I'm not sure what else can be said :P. I just don't see why it's necessary but if it means tvp goes to the lategame more I'm actually for it so that shit gets figured out or, if necessary, helped out.

    but honestly it doesn't even seem to be weird midgame stuff that's fucking toss up anymore, it's more the very early game.

    really though the only way that it hurts is it's less robo build time punishment if toss lets their obs get sniped. but that's looking for something.

    Well, it will now be possible to get out three observers where before you could only get two in the same time frame, assuming you chronoboosted. That should help midgame against multi pronged drops.

    Honestly I think the main reason they made the change is to help protoss in the early game against terran. And not so much that it allows you to get out an observer 10 seconds earlier, but moreso that you can get out an immortal ten seconds earlier. I think it's a decent change but I don't understand why they chose to address tvp early game and not pvt late game

    Probably because addressing PvT early game is much easier to do. The problem is that Protoss has difficulty scouting Terran all-ins and then reacting to them in time. This change buys you bit of extra reaction time, and that should help.

    But addressing TvP lategame is really difficult - its hard to pinpoint one specific thing that needs changing. Zealots are really strong, but if you nerf them you run the risk of hurting PvZ too much. Archons could probably do with some sort of nerf, but if you go too far you'll be back where we were before, where they weren't even used. Storm can't really be nerfed - its not overly powerful I feel.

    If I had to guess, I'd say they have to tweak charge in some way. The only matchup where you consistently get Charge is PvT, so a nerf to perhaps the charge cooldown might be helpful.

    EDIT: actually, a change that would probably make both Terran and Protoss happy is a total reworking of Charge. Instead of making it an ability that activates once every X seconds, make it a passive that makes zealots resistant or immune to Concussive Shell, and increases their movement speed only.

    Dhalphir on
    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • AnzekayAnzekay Don't lose it Don't lose your wayRegistered User regular
    Keep the charge, give them a buff that gives immunity to slowing effects for a short duration after the charge.

    XPWKwvT.jpg?1?3207
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    I complained about it, I'm not sure what else can be said :P. I just don't see why it's necessary but if it means tvp goes to the lategame more I'm actually for it so that shit gets figured out or, if necessary, helped out.

    but honestly it doesn't even seem to be weird midgame stuff that's fucking toss up anymore, it's more the very early game.

    really though the only way that it hurts is it's less robo build time punishment if toss lets their obs get sniped. but that's looking for something.

    Well, it will now be possible to get out three observers where before you could only get two in the same time frame, assuming you chronoboosted. That should help midgame against multi pronged drops.

    Honestly I think the main reason they made the change is to help protoss in the early game against terran. And not so much that it allows you to get out an observer 10 seconds earlier, but moreso that you can get out an immortal ten seconds earlier. I think it's a decent change but I don't understand why they chose to address tvp early game and not pvt late game

    Probably because addressing PvT early game is much easier to do. The problem is that Protoss has difficulty scouting Terran all-ins and then reacting to them in time. This change buys you bit of extra reaction time, and that should help.

    But addressing TvP lategame is really difficult - its hard to pinpoint one specific thing that needs changing. Zealots are really strong, but if you nerf them you run the risk of hurting PvZ too much. Archons could probably do with some sort of nerf, but if you go too far you'll be back where we were before, where they weren't even used. Storm can't really be nerfed - its not overly powerful I feel.

    If I had to guess, I'd say they have to tweak charge in some way. The only matchup where you consistently get Charge is PvT, so a nerf to perhaps the charge cooldown might be helpful.

    EDIT: actually, a change that would probably make both Terran and Protoss happy is a total reworking of Charge. Instead of making it an ability that activates once every X seconds, make it a passive that makes zealots resistant or immune to Concussive Shell, and increases their movement speed only.

    I would be happy if Storm had a ramp up and was compensated with more overall damage. It would still wreck with FFs but Storm dodging would be much more effective. It would also actually be useful vZ and vP as well.

    Atm its
    10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10: 10 damage in the first quarter, 40 in the first half, 80 overall
    and it would be nice imo with
    00-05-10-15-20-25-30-35: 5 damage in the first quarter, 30 in the first half, 140 overall.


    Also, after playing a dozenish Mech TvTs, I feel that macroing is much easier, but that the army control needed is too great for me to handle. I have no idea how you guys can handle like 5 different control groups.
    I did accomplish my goal of learning to properly push siege lines though.

  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    So assuming there will be some sort of meetup at PAX Prime, we should set a date or something, since all the 3 day passes are sold out already (in under 24 hours.) I'm only going to grab a single day pass probably now, instead of Sat and Sunday, so yeah SC2 Thread. When will you all be at PAX and/or wanna get ridiculously drunk afterwards?

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  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    yeah lategame tvp I have no idea what it is that makes it hard. I don't think there's a problem with storm (although that idea is interesting yilias), or archons or even colossus. it's all of them + chargelots that is scary.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Keep the charge, give them a buff that gives immunity to slowing effects for a short duration after the charge.

    That would be a net buff. Chargelots are already good enough.

    Tube-san wrote:
    I apologise for my rudeness desu.
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    The observer change is kind of a band aid, early and mid game P is so encounter dependant vs T (and Z but it works both ways more so than vs T) so this should mean less situations where the P gets caught in dumb situations but it doesn't really change that much for the way the T needs to play.

    It's a decent subtle adjustment, though. I think we need to wait longer to see if the late game balance is a temporary thing or not.

    815165 on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Oh and more importantly, I will now never ever make Hydras again since I downvoted TDA and now Queens spawn with 50 energy. :^:

    815165 on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    815165 wrote: »
    The observer change is kind of a band aid, early and mid game P is so encounter dependant vs T (and Z but it works both ways more so than vs T) so this should mean less situations where the P gets caught in dumb situations but it doesn't really change that much for the way the T needs to play.

    It's a decent subtle adjustment, though. I think we need to wait longer to see if the late game balance is a temporary thing or not.

    Basically the way I see it is that the reason PvT early game and midgamei s so difficult is that the only reliable tool Protoss has to scout Terran is observers or heavy aggression, both of which commit you - observers commit you to robo (to a degree) and heavy aggression commits you to, well, heavy aggression.

    In addition, because every unit Protoss makes (nearly) has such a high gas cost, its usually the case that once you start down a tech path, its slow and unwieldy to swap, so reacting to what you scout takes a fair amount of time. For example, if you go for a robo and you fly in and your opponent is going for super fast medivac drops, its a bit slow to switch into a more mobile composition, so you have to delay your third by a lot in order to defend the medivac drops. it also means Protoss can get 3 observers in the time it previously took to make 2, so you'll have the extra one for drop spotting.

    Tube-san wrote:
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  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    yeah lategame tvp I have no idea what it is that makes it hard. I don't think there's a problem with storm (although that idea is interesting yilias), or archons or even colossus. it's all of them + chargelots that is scary.

    It's a combination of Chargelots + Warpgates / Mech/Air against Toss just isn't Viable. Protoss see's he's facing a Terran, and knows he needs 3 things for late game: Templar, Colossus, and Chargelots. Templars serve a weird role in the matchup, because they are really good against Bio with Storms and Medivac feedback, and completely shut down SkyTerran or Mech Play with Feedbacks. One unit seriously hinders all three of Terrans mainstay builds. Some BC/Banshee/Viking combo *might* be viable if you could also afford to get some ghosts, but the gas requirement is way too high for that kind of build.

    It's just a weird deal, because Terran is absolutely forced into one style of play for the mid/late game, just due to the match up. Which is why you see 1 and 2 base all ins so prevalent. The power swing from the 11-12 minute mark on is so ridiculous.

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  • VariableVariable Weed and Masturbation Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    just played a tvt that started with him saying "fucking tvt" which you just know is gonna be a fun time.

    I contain, deny a 3rd, contain, deny a 3rd, eventually lose the contain, he gets to 4, I say "I don't know how to actually win in this match either"

    I get impatient and attack into him but as it turned out he had almost no upgrades at all and an uncomfortable bio/mech mix where as I had moderately upgraded mech and pushed through. containcontaincontain, he tries to push out and fails and I win. well, it took me another like 10 minutes to actually win.

    "you fucking terran bitch" hahahaha. that game was torturous though jesus, I understand his aggravation.

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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    see

    even terran doesnt know how to beat terran

This discussion has been closed.