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[GW2]Making a new thread for the BWE. See you guys on Aspenwood soon!

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Posts

  • am0nam0n Waltham, MARegistered User regular
    I gave Anet feedback to just unlock all the weapon skills for a player when they get to level 3 or 4. I think it will still get new players experience with how the skills are set up without forcing higher-level characters to go grind for skill unlocks because they got a weapon later or whatever.

    What would be interesting is if they gave you say 3 or 4 fixed skills and then you could unlock the 5th and/or 4th, but from several (kind of like utility abilities). Then you could have additional customization even with weapons.

    Barrowtown - Lakor
  • TolerantZeroTolerantZero Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    You would get a dye if you have a colorful dye seed and gave it to a dye manufactor in your home instance. The color you would receive from it is completely random, though.

    TolerantZero on
    Steam | Raptr | 3DS - 2552-2106-0321
  • DraygoDraygo Registered User regular
    You would get dye seeds randomly off dead enemies.

    You can then germinate them in your personal instance (after you completed the level 20 mission) in 24 hours or buy the dye food and get the dye instantly.

  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    I never found dye, but I found seeds that I could give to a dye grower, who would apparently plant the seed and give me a dye the next day. Unfortunately, I found this on the last day, so didn't try it.

  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    I gave Anet feedback to just unlock all the weapon skills for a player when they get to level 3 or 4. I think it will still get new players experience with how the skills are set up without forcing higher-level characters to go grind for skill unlocks because they got a weapon later or whatever.

    What would be interesting is if they gave you say 3 or 4 fixed skills and then you could unlock the 5th and/or 4th, but from several (kind of like utility abilities). Then you could have additional customization even with weapons.

    "Higher level players need to grind to unlock".
    When I was level 14 with my thief, I decided to try out a pistol. It took about 2 minutes to have every single skill unlocked because as far as I know, the higher in level you are, the faster skills you haven't unlocked yet, do unlock.

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    am0n wrote: »
    I gave Anet feedback to just unlock all the weapon skills for a player when they get to level 3 or 4. I think it will still get new players experience with how the skills are set up without forcing higher-level characters to go grind for skill unlocks because they got a weapon later or whatever.

    What would be interesting is if they gave you say 3 or 4 fixed skills and then you could unlock the 5th and/or 4th, but from several (kind of like utility abilities). Then you could have additional customization even with weapons.

    I was thinking maybe special weapons could give a different ability #3/5, like maybe a flaming sword could burn instead of bleed. But that probably throws off the balance, as well as requires a new ability be given to every class that can use the weapon.

    Thieves' #3 changes based on the main AND offhand, right?

  • sidhaethesidhaethe Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    In other games, you'd get number 1 at level 1, then number 2 at level 8, then 5 at level 40+. I get that now that people have gotten a taste of having them unlocked faster, the natural evolution is to demand that they just get them all unlocked instantly

    This made me LOL because I feel it matches a pattern I've observed with people's reactions to GW2.... it's like we go from "omg this is the best idea!" to "wtf is this, why doesn't it [insert additional thing]?!" in 3 seconds.

  • LostInThoughtLostInThought Registered User regular
    So... did anyone else have trouble selling things on the trading post? The couple times I tried i just got an error...

    Also, was transmutation available in the beta? I wanted to see how it worked but ran out of time.

  • CaedereCaedere S'no regrets BIRDIESRegistered User regular
    I dodge even when there's no reason to. I dodge my way into vendors to sell stuff. Dodging is the new jumping.

    Over the weekend I dodged my way into the door of an orphanage, crashed into the wall, and leveled from discovery experience. Then I dodged the heck outta there.

    First off

    /hug
    Spoiler:

    I dodge my way EVERYWHERE. I get sad that I can't dodge more. I've thought about speccing dodge into classes just to dodge as much as I could dodge.

    Secondly

    I looooooove how the weapon unlock system works here. I am excited to get that next new ability, even if I've seen what it does in PVP already. It's like addictive crack.

    FWnykYl.jpg
  • XagarXagar Registered User regular
    So... did anyone else have trouble selling things on the trading post? The couple times I tried i just got an error...

    Also, was transmutation available in the beta? I wanted to see how it worked but ran out of time.
    The trading post worked perfectly for me.

    In an unrelated note, the guardian res signet worked fine before the first 30 min downtime on saturday but after it it broke. From other complaints about resurrections I think they broke it then.

    "For who knows what is good for a man in life, during the few and meaningless days he passes through like a shadow?
    Who can tell him what will happen under the sun after he is gone?"
  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    sidhaethe wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    In other games, you'd get number 1 at level 1, then number 2 at level 8, then 5 at level 40+. I get that now that people have gotten a taste of having them unlocked faster, the natural evolution is to demand that they just get them all unlocked instantly

    This made me LOL because I feel it matches a pattern I've observed with people's reactions to GW2.... it's like we go from "omg this is the best idea!" to "wtf is this, why doesn't it [insert additional thing]?!" in 3 seconds.

    I think it's because it does SO MUCH good that when something is out of place it's even more jarring. Like for me, I saw all this ass kicking going on, then two features I thought were obvious were missing... I went serious WTF mode. Now there's this cool weapon system, and it's really good... but it has one characteristic that makes it a drag, and it would be so much better if it were changed, and..

  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    Mad poet, how much of the game do you want available to you immediately, anyhow?

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Buddies wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Gustavo M wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    How does it make you more disappointed?

    It makes me think that PvP does not require any sort of tactic or strategy, since hey; You can rip off a necromancer In two hits.

    Alright, yeah, if you're going to approach this from a WoW "Hey lets all stand perfect still and hit each other" perspective then, yes, it's overpowered. However, if you're not going to dodge or do anything to defend yourself except try to shoot them with your wand, you really deserve that 10k crit until someone teaches you to friggin MOVE!
    Buddies wrote: »
    xgalaxy wrote: »
    Gustavo M wrote: »
    Well gentleman, I just saw a video that dropped my desire to play Guild Wars 2 by half:
    Spoiler:

    If PvP resumes into a 1 second battle against others players on release... I'll be really dissapointed.

    zomg guys!
    I just saw a video that was clearly sped up and this warrior was dropping players in less than a second.
    The game is imbalanced! Nerfs nerfs for all!

    Did you watch the video? It isn't sped up. That build really does that much damage that fast. But doesn't come without it's drawbacks.

    here is the second part that shows him using the build. Not sped up at all. The people he fights aren't the greatest, but aren't super total scrubs either given the amount of time people had with the game over the weekend.



    He has a real nice fight with a pretty good Thief. but LOL EVISCERATE!
    9 out of every 10 players are not going to be anything but a scrub in PvP when they've only had 3 days to play it.

    Scrub by what definition? With that logic you could argue that if Starcraft 3 were to come out tomorrow and noone had ever played it before then someone from the SC 2 Bronze league would have an even chance against someone in the SC2 Master league. I wouldn't put money on that Bronze player.

    GW2 does not have any crazy new mechanics people have never seen before. You can easily tell the difference between someone just playing for fun, someone actually trying to win, and the really talented people. And many other little classifications in between.
    Actually from the responses and feedback on the official forums, yeah a lot of people haven't seen the mechanics of combat used in GW2 before, and they certainly aren't 100% on the use of the mechanics in 3 days time. A lot of the people in that first video don't act like they've learned a thing, they just try to run away or run towards, there's no dodging or anything with only a couple significant outliers who actually do dodge.

    Dedwrekka on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    I post that skills unlock almost instantly at higher levels.

    People ignore it and want skills to unlock almost instantly.

    Have my babies, PA.

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I said 'you're holding back' She said 'shut up and dance with me'Registered User regular
    /hug WaM
    Are Necromancers popular because they're powerful or because people legitimately dig Necromancers? Warlock being one of the most underplayed classes in WoW for a long time makes me wonder...

    I've dug Necros ever since Everquest and Diablo 2 and the first Guild Wars. WoW Warlock was alright, but GW2's Necro dosn't play anything like it. They are closer to Diablo 2.

    Also, playing around with that calculator for a Guardian..
    Martyr: Draw conditions from nearby allies to yourself. Gain multiple boons for a short duration.

    And
    Contemplation of Purity: Remove all conditions from yourself and turn them into boons.

    Ohohohohahaha.

    acpRlGW.jpg291.gif
    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: SkinnerSweet
  • PeccaviPeccavi oh... oh my!Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Mad poet, how much of the game do you want available to you immediately, anyhow?

    Having it so that once you've unlocked 5 weapon skills you never go back down to one would be great.

    kvhn.png
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    /hug WaM

    Also, playing around with that calculator for a Guardian..
    Martyr: Draw conditions from nearby allies to yourself. Gain multiple boons for a short duration.

    And
    Contemplation of Purity: Remove all conditions from yourself and turn them into boons.

    Ohohohohahaha.

    Easy to get lost in all those effects to end up in the boonies

  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    There's a thief trait called "combined tactics" that says it returns initiative when you use a dual-wield skill (the 3 slot ones). Does anyone know how much initiative? The internet doesn't seem to know...

  • HalfmexHalfmex Matter of fact... I didn't even give you my coat!Registered User regular
    I understand the complaint, but frankly I like the unlock mechanic as it is. It provides me with a sense of discovery; a brief little 'christmas morning' moment with every new weapon. If there were hundreds of weapon types or if you had to do it with every new weapon regardless of whether or not you'd unlocked the skills for that weapon previously, then yeah, that'd be pretty grating. As it is, it seems like a minor inconvenience at worst (though I do support the auto-unlock argument for underwater weapon skills, if only because you spend so little time underwater). I get the opposing viewpoint, I do. It's the same style of thinking that made Diablo 3's more 'mundane' magic items automatically identified (a very disappointing change).

    Sadly, this doesn't sound like something they'd make toggleable. I wish they could, as I'd love it if they could please both camps.

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Where were the dyes found? Sorry if it seems I'm opening up an old topic, but where did they come from?

    I figure I'll overload you with information, since everyone else responded to the question already
    behold an Anet interview about Dye-ing without going to the downed position.
    http://www.arena.net/blog/live-and-let-dye-kristen-perry-on-the-gw2-dye-system

  • am0nam0n Waltham, MARegistered User regular
    Klyka wrote: »
    I post that skills unlock almost instantly at higher levels.

    People ignore it and want skills to unlock almost instantly.

    Have my babies, PA.

    Your post was useful, but you replied to my post which had nothing to do with unlock speed and was more about customization/flavor of abilities with any given weapon. Perhaps that threw people off?

    Barrowtown - Lakor
  • CaedereCaedere S'no regrets BIRDIESRegistered User regular
    Buddies wrote: »
    I haven't played a MOBA game in a long time, mostly because they are not good for my bloodpressure, but do a good majority of teams still always have a "Carry" hero? When I played them, from DoTA 5.somethingwiththesuperOPGorgon up to HoN's release, every serious team had a Carry/Jungler. A Hero that was pretty bad in the early game and generally on its own, but if aloud to get nice items in late game would output so much DPS that left unchecked would Carry his team to victory. Are there still strategies that revolve around making and protecting these carrys into late game?

    Cause that is what I see these Eviscerate/Greatsword Warrior, Power/Precision Backstab Thief, and Axe&Horn/Greatsword Rangers. They are the carry for your team. They output such ridiculous damage, and your job as their teammate is to make it so they can output that damage. Are they OP? Yea in PUB games, just like in those MOBA games where good players on Carrys could join a random game by themselves and stomp the shit out of the other team. But as part of a team against another team that has their own or knows how to deal with it? I don't know yet, because one of the strategies to deal with a carry hero in LoL is to shut it down early game. In GW2, you can't stop that Eviscerate Warrior from being able to do 20k damage in one hit... he comes equipped with it, so the only strategy left is to CC and focus him down.

    I'm trying to get over the fact that some professions can't be the carry on a team. Hopefully there are multiple viable roles for each profession.

    As far as I know, they do.

    It's interesting to compare the roles in GW2 to ones in MOBA games, especially since a lot of the structured PVP design is designed to mesh with them.

    Hmm. I'm going to have to analyze potential builds in the MOBA light and see how well that goes.

    FWnykYl.jpg
  • CaedereCaedere S'no regrets BIRDIESRegistered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    I understand the complaint, but frankly I like the unlock mechanic as it is. It provides me with a sense of discovery; a brief little 'christmas morning' moment with every new weapon. If there were hundreds of weapon types or if you had to do it with every new weapon regardless of whether or not you'd unlocked the skills for that weapon previously, then yeah, that'd be pretty grating. As it is, it seems like a minor inconvenience at worst (though I do support the auto-unlock argument for underwater weapon skills, if only because you spend so little time underwater). I get the opposing viewpoint, I do. It's the same style of thinking that made Diablo 3's more 'mundane' magic items automatically identified (a very disappointing change).

    Sadly, this doesn't sound like something they'd make toggleable. I wish they could, as I'd love it if they could please both camps.

    There will be an underwater PVP arena.

    This makes me very excited.

    And remember, I'm the type of person who HATES underwater zones and areas in games. Hatehatehatehate. Labyrinth Zone and Dire Dire Docks traumatized me.

    But... there's just something amazing about how this game handles underwater that makes me tingle. I had fun fighting and swimming and exploring lakes and stuff, and getting to PVP in that sort of environment is gonna be coooooool.

    FWnykYl.jpg
  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    "Heaven is far away, but hell can be reached in a day." - the fool, from Ran by Kurosawa
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Dyes: Did anyone test whether EACH character could interact with the dye guy at the same time, or whether the cooldown was account wide?

    "Well, look at this. Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What's that make us?"
    "Big Damn Heroes, Sir."
    "Ain't we just."
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Buddies wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Gustavo M wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    How does it make you more disappointed?

    It makes me think that PvP does not require any sort of tactic or strategy, since hey; You can rip off a necromancer In two hits.

    Alright, yeah, if you're going to approach this from a WoW "Hey lets all stand perfect still and hit each other" perspective then, yes, it's overpowered. However, if you're not going to dodge or do anything to defend yourself except try to shoot them with your wand, you really deserve that 10k crit until someone teaches you to friggin MOVE!
    Buddies wrote: »
    xgalaxy wrote: »
    Gustavo M wrote: »
    Well gentleman, I just saw a video that dropped my desire to play Guild Wars 2 by half:
    Spoiler:

    If PvP resumes into a 1 second battle against others players on release... I'll be really dissapointed.

    zomg guys!
    I just saw a video that was clearly sped up and this warrior was dropping players in less than a second.
    The game is imbalanced! Nerfs nerfs for all!

    Did you watch the video? It isn't sped up. That build really does that much damage that fast. But doesn't come without it's drawbacks.

    here is the second part that shows him using the build. Not sped up at all. The people he fights aren't the greatest, but aren't super total scrubs either given the amount of time people had with the game over the weekend.



    He has a real nice fight with a pretty good Thief. but LOL EVISCERATE!
    9 out of every 10 players are not going to be anything but a scrub in PvP when they've only had 3 days to play it.

    Scrub by what definition? With that logic you could argue that if Starcraft 3 were to come out tomorrow and noone had ever played it before then someone from the SC 2 Bronze league would have an even chance against someone in the SC2 Master league. I wouldn't put money on that Bronze player.

    GW2 does not have any crazy new mechanics people have never seen before. You can easily tell the difference between someone just playing for fun, someone actually trying to win, and the really talented people. And many other little classifications in between.
    Actually from the responses and feedback on the official forums, yeah a lot of people haven't seen the mechanics of combat used in GW2 before, and they certainly aren't 100% on the use of the mechanics in 3 days time. A lot of the people in that first video don't act like they've learned a thing, they just try to run away or run towards, there's no dodging or anything with only a couple significant outliers who actually do dodge.

    The official forums is also full of people clamoring to get breasts on Charr females, flying mounts, DPS Meters, and a whole assortment of other bullshit that either doesn't make any sense or doesn't add anything to the game. I had no problem with the game mechanics. A few of my friends had no problems with the combat mechanics either. It all made sense, and aNet did a terrific job making it flow well and feel very intuitive IMO.

    That build for a Warrior has it's weaknesses, for sure. Maybe it's just my impression from some of the responses on it, but it seems some people think it's an outright terrible build and isn't good against good players. Yea, it isn't good against counter-builds in 1v1 fights. but it is very strong in those battlegrounds. It has some of the highest damage output you can get, with a little bit of survivability and a decent health pool considering it's damage potential. It has a place on a team as a damage dealer. Frenzy combined with a stun and thousand blades forces defensive cooldowns, and then he has a 7-14k finishing move that he builds adrenaline for easily in Eviscerate. It also happens to have very little wind-up so in order to dodge it you must have very little lag and top 5% skill in reflexes.

    It's a good strong build. A friend used it against me(the greatsword half of it), and I changed my build the very next game so I would not die immediately to it. He preferred the Necro later though once he discovered a build similar to the one @caedere posted earlier.

    Buddies on
  • HalfmexHalfmex Matter of fact... I didn't even give you my coat!Registered User regular
    Caedere wrote: »
    Halfmex wrote: »
    I understand the complaint, but frankly I like the unlock mechanic as it is. It provides me with a sense of discovery; a brief little 'christmas morning' moment with every new weapon. If there were hundreds of weapon types or if you had to do it with every new weapon regardless of whether or not you'd unlocked the skills for that weapon previously, then yeah, that'd be pretty grating. As it is, it seems like a minor inconvenience at worst (though I do support the auto-unlock argument for underwater weapon skills, if only because you spend so little time underwater). I get the opposing viewpoint, I do. It's the same style of thinking that made Diablo 3's more 'mundane' magic items automatically identified (a very disappointing change).

    Sadly, this doesn't sound like something they'd make toggleable. I wish they could, as I'd love it if they could please both camps.

    There will be an underwater PVP arena.

    This makes me very excited.

    And remember, I'm the type of person who HATES underwater zones and areas in games. Hatehatehatehate. Labyrinth Zone and Dire Dire Docks traumatized me.

    But... there's just something amazing about how this game handles underwater that makes me tingle. I had fun fighting and swimming and exploring lakes and stuff, and getting to PVP in that sort of environment is gonna be coooooool.

    Ah, I didn't know there'd be an underwater arena, that's interesting. I'm still not one for the pee vee pees, but for those who dig it, right on. Shine on you crazy diamonds.

    I didn't really get too many opportunities to go underwater in the BWE as my highest character was only level 11 (well, all three of them were, but still). I'm interested to get some more experience with it to see how it differs from other games in the underwater space.

  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    Peccavi wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Mad poet, how much of the game do you want available to you immediately, anyhow?

    Having it so that once you've unlocked 5 weapon skills you never go back down to one would be great.

    I don't mean weapon skills. His position is clear in that regard. I'm talking about the rest of the game. What abut utility skills, traits, gear and anything else you don't get immediately?

    Except for the flatter leveling curve which will make things faster things like traits follow a pretty traditional ladder. He isn't satisfied with the concession to weapon skills, which are extremely fast compared to acquiring skills in every other MMO so I'm wondering if he feels similarly about the other aspects of the game.

  • PeccaviPeccavi oh... oh my!Registered User regular
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    kvhn.png
  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    I assume because it was play tested for longer than any of us will ever be able to devote ourselves and the mass of data and their talents as designers led them to this solution.

    This is bordering on an appeal to authority but sometimes other people do know best. This isn't meant to be dismissive but understanding why it's this way is useful.

    Sarksus on
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    Because, purely from my BWE experience, it takes much much longer than "a few minutes" to unlock all the skills of a weapon. Unlocking the full set of skills for dual daggers on my elementalist was a slow process over multiple days and about 4-5 levels. Even just one element's set of skills took at least an hour or two of fighting to unlock.

  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    I make no pronouncements as to whether it helps a character learn the skills, although I should have said that it is the quickest, not necessarily the 'best' way to unlock the skills. I can see why they might want to do it, again, as a way to ease players into another set of 5/3/2 skills that they previously didn't have, but I can't be a good judge of this since I more or less had every skill effect memorized before I logged in. I'm one of those who followed GW2 since it was almost called Guild Wars: Utopia (which, on reflection, makes for an odd name).

    Edit: I have since gone back to the GW Wiki and I now really, really hope they manage to incorporate some of Utopia's concept art into a later expansion pack.
    Spoiler:

    doomybear on
    "Heaven is far away, but hell can be reached in a day." - the fool, from Ran by Kurosawa
  • RexNerdlyRexNerdly Registered User regular
    I'm fine with the way weapon skills unlock. I think a lot of over analyzing is happening because it consumed a decent amount of our play time. If we all had continued playing this week, I think most of us would have forgotten about it.

    Except for maybe elementalists. I didn't play one yet, but unlocking 20 skills per weapon versus five sounds like a pain.

  • HugglesHuggles Cinnabar is very toxic Not very huggableRegistered User regular
    Contemplation of Purity: Remove all conditions from yourself and turn them into boons.

    Ohohohohahaha.

    Necros can do that in an AoE!

    /hug @ WaM too. You know you fine folks in the GW2 dev team now have me doubletapping WASD to dodge and pressing F to talk to NPCs in GW1 now?

    Minecraft: Ginjinngear | Steam
  • PeccaviPeccavi oh... oh my!Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    Because, purely from my BWE experience, it takes much much longer than "a few minutes" to unlock all the skills of a weapon. Unlocking the full set of skills for dual daggers on my elementalist was a slow process over multiple days and about 4-5 levels. Even just one element's set of skills took at least an hour or two of fighting to unlock.

    This is even worse in my mind. Going from 5 weapon skills to 1 is regression, the exact opposite of what I want to do in an RPG. Having to do so over and over and over for an elementalist is ridiculous.

    And yes, the reason I'm complaining about this is because it was one of the few low points from an otherwise amazing weekend. WaM, please be praising your coworkers for me, and let me play your game.

    kvhn.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    Because, purely from my BWE experience, it takes much much longer than "a few minutes" to unlock all the skills of a weapon. Unlocking the full set of skills for dual daggers on my elementalist was a slow process over multiple days and about 4-5 levels. Even just one element's set of skills took at least an hour or two of fighting to unlock.

    Man, what the heck were you doing then?

    I unlocked every weapon for guardian, mesmer, necromancer, thief and engineer before I hit lvl 10. (the last one was pathetically easy with only 4) That's every skill on every weapon. It's really not a big deal. (though as I said before, they should probably speed up unlocks for skills 4 and 5)

    Like someone said, in any other game, you'd be unlocking skills over the course of DAYS. You'd be lvl 60 and unlocking key skills to make your rotation go. That apparently people can't spend 10 minutes unlocking a new weapon because "OMG, systems to ease players into the game are horrible and 'waste' upwards of a quarter of an hour of my game time!" is fucking ludicrous.

    shryke on
  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    Caedere wrote: »
    Buddies wrote: »
    I haven't played a MOBA game in a long time, mostly because they are not good for my bloodpressure, but do a good majority of teams still always have a "Carry" hero? When I played them, from DoTA 5.somethingwiththesuperOPGorgon up to HoN's release, every serious team had a Carry/Jungler. A Hero that was pretty bad in the early game and generally on its own, but if aloud to get nice items in late game would output so much DPS that left unchecked would Carry his team to victory. Are there still strategies that revolve around making and protecting these carrys into late game?

    Cause that is what I see these Eviscerate/Greatsword Warrior, Power/Precision Backstab Thief, and Axe&Horn/Greatsword Rangers. They are the carry for your team. They output such ridiculous damage, and your job as their teammate is to make it so they can output that damage. Are they OP? Yea in PUB games, just like in those MOBA games where good players on Carrys could join a random game by themselves and stomp the shit out of the other team. But as part of a team against another team that has their own or knows how to deal with it? I don't know yet, because one of the strategies to deal with a carry hero in LoL is to shut it down early game. In GW2, you can't stop that Eviscerate Warrior from being able to do 20k damage in one hit... he comes equipped with it, so the only strategy left is to CC and focus him down.

    I'm trying to get over the fact that some professions can't be the carry on a team. Hopefully there are multiple viable roles for each profession.

    As far as I know, they do.

    It's interesting to compare the roles in GW2 to ones in MOBA games, especially since a lot of the structured PVP design is designed to mesh with them.

    Hmm. I'm going to have to analyze potential builds in the MOBA light and see how well that goes.

    Eh... I say that there were enough people playing this past BWE to be statistically significant. So I would expect there would be builds that at least hint at what is possible for each class. From my experience, and what I have been able to find so far, the engineer and the elementalist have not shown any great potential for a MOBA carry hero like role.

    As an example.

    The most impressive damage I've seen from an elementalist has been a 6.5k Dragon Tooth followed with I think a 4k Phoenix. That is pitiful compared to the 15k backstab followed with 4 4.5k heartseekers. Or the Straight up 20k eviscerate. Or the string of 5-8 4k Greatsword attacks from a ranger. These are the extremes of what I've seen these professions do, and why I draw the conclusion that you would not put an elementalist as a carry, because other professions are waaaay better at it.

    I still do not know how that elementalist got a 6.5k Dragon Tooth. After accounting for the terrible base health of the ele, and reallocating some traits around to ensure I didn't die to a stiff stare, the highest dragon tooths I was seeing was in the 2k area. How did he get over 3x the damage? It's wild.

    Here is a guy playing a build that is very similar to the one I played. He utilized the Arcane skills a lot more than I did. I am embarrassed to say that I didn't think the Arcane Blast was as good as it apparently is, and I only used Arcane wave in my build. Anyway, you will see that his build, built towards damage, has similar survivability to that offensive warrior build posted earlier. His only defensive ability is Mist Form, vs the warriors Endure Pain when he gets to 25% health. Similar health, similar mobility, similar utility. Yet, there isn't nearly as many impressive numbers flying around.

  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Peccavi wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Mad poet, how much of the game do you want available to you immediately, anyhow?

    Having it so that once you've unlocked 5 weapon skills you never go back down to one would be great.

    I don't mean weapon skills. His position is clear in that regard. I'm talking about the rest of the game. What abut utility skills, traits, gear and anything else you don't get immediately?

    Except for the flatter leveling curve which will make things faster things like traits follow a pretty traditional ladder. He isn't satisfied with the concession to weapon skills, which are extremely fast compared to acquiring skills in every other MMO so I'm wondering if he feels similarly about the other aspects of the game.

    That's about it. Like I said earlier - the game is so good, the bad parts stand out more. Unlocking weapon skills is a bad part. I might throw another weapon at the character earlier to make sure there's some variety. Slightly boost xp from 3 to 5, as several of my characters completed all the level appropriate content, but got beat up a bit much by anything higher (norn was fine, all my humans and charr hit this). But, content wise, that's the only thing I hit that was really un-fun. I agree, it's better than other MMOs, I looked up WoW warrior skills to get a comparison, and they get like 3 buttons before level 10. But that doesn't change the fact that it is out of place in a game that is pretty much "Do what you want, have fun."

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Peccavi wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    Because, purely from my BWE experience, it takes much much longer than "a few minutes" to unlock all the skills of a weapon. Unlocking the full set of skills for dual daggers on my elementalist was a slow process over multiple days and about 4-5 levels. Even just one element's set of skills took at least an hour or two of fighting to unlock.

    This is even worse in my mind. Going from 5 weapon skills to 1 is regression, the exact opposite of what I want to do in an RPG. Having to do so over and over and over for an elementalist is ridiculous.

    And yes, the reason I'm complaining about this is because it was one of the few low points from an otherwise amazing weekend. WaM, please be praising your coworkers for me, and let me play your game.

    You aren't going from 5 skills to 1. You can still requip your old weapon and have 5 skills. You are gaining NEW skills with each new weapon, the same way you gain new skills with each new utility skill you unlock.

    Each new weapon you unlock is a new playstyle and new possibility the game eases you in to.

  • BuddiesBuddies Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    shryke wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Peccavi wrote: »
    doomybear wrote: »
    Okay, so unlocking skills with your weapons works like this (as far as I remember): Each kill is worth a percent of the next skill's "bar." It doesn't matter how tough your enemy is, although it seems like certain things far below your effective level - rats, bunnies, and the like - don't count toward unlocking your skill.

    So, you have 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5, with 1 already unlocked. You need(ed) 5 kills to unlock skill 2, 10 kills to unlock skill 3, 15 for skill 4, 20 for skill 5. I may be a bit inaccurate on these counts.

    In light of this information, the best way to unlock your skills is to play with a group, where multiple mobs are around for you to 'tag' and get credit for killing. AoE-oriented weapons are also easier to unlock.

    Hm, maybe I should have posted this up Friday instead of AFTER the BWE was finished...

    Ah well.

    Yes, the best way to unlock skills has dick all to do with"easing" a player into using a new weapon. Just another stupid carrot to Chase. "But it only takes a few minutes!!!". If it's that pointless, than why is it even in the game???

    Because, purely from my BWE experience, it takes much much longer than "a few minutes" to unlock all the skills of a weapon. Unlocking the full set of skills for dual daggers on my elementalist was a slow process over multiple days and about 4-5 levels. Even just one element's set of skills took at least an hour or two of fighting to unlock.

    Man, what the heck were you doing then?

    I unlocked every weapon for guardian, mesmer, necromancer, thief and engineer before I hit lvl 10. (the last one was pathetically easy with only 4) That's every skill on every weapon. It's really not a big deal. (though as I said before, they should probably speed up unlocks for skills 4 and 5)

    Like someone said, in any other game, you'd be unlocking skills over the course of DAYS. You'd be lvl 60 and unlocking key skills to make your rotation go. That apparently people can't spend 10 minutes unlocking a new weapon because "OMG, systems to ease players into the game are horrible and 'waste' upwards of a quarter of an hour of my game time!" is fucking ludicrous.

    It took me almost about a half hour, or more, to unlock just the first 3 dagger skills on my elementalist. I had already unlocked the off-hand skills because most of my playtime was with Scepter/Dagger. Then my friends went to go eat dinner before starting some WvWvW so I decided to level up my dagger main hand while I waited for them. So, I guess I could have sped that up if I went to a leveling area where a DE that involved a ton of attacking mobs, like how you leveled the guardian staff. But really, should that be necessary? 30 minutes of killing mobs outside your fort in the borderlands or traveling all the way back to find a DE to abuse the amount of mobs there just to level my weapon?

    It's not an interesting thing to me. It's not thaaat big of a deal to me really, but I do feel like it's a waste of time to grind mobs so that my weapon skills are up to par. It's not the same as, but it feels like what you had to go through when you got a new weapon in WoW and you had to go to Wailing Caverns so you could level up the weapon skill so you could raid with that new weapon next week. It's not fun... and then Blizzard realized it wasn't fun and got rid of it.

    Buddies on
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