Cops Gone Wild: Cop Punished For Doing The Right Thing Edition

AngelHedgie

So, when a cop tries to stop police brutality, it seems her reward is to be put through the wringer in order to have her fired:

http://blog.simplejustice.us/2012/04/18/the-cop-definition-of-bizarre.aspx

People wonder why the bad cops act with impunity? This is why. And the fact that the various fraternal police organisations are doing nothing to support her speaks volumes.

BubbaT

Good for Tasca for doing her job first, and worrying about protecting the Blue Wall of Silence later (or rather, not at all).

On one hand, I don't want to call her a hero because the way she acted is the way ALL cops should act. What she did is what we should expect of police officers, rather than have it stand out as a beacon of heroic competence in a sea of outright corruption and silent complicity.

On the other hand, she did the right thing even though it was greatly to her personal disadvantage - and she had to know it was, even at the moment she acted. Even though it endangered her career, and possibly her own personal safety (good luck finding a trustworthy partner to watch your back, when the entire department hates you). And if that's not the definition of a hero, what is?


Bogota PD, as if it needs to be said, should be ashamed of themselves. Every officer who remains silent while a good cop is railroaded is a disgrace to their shield and their oath.

BubbaT

Similar story out of Austin, Texas - a cop, Ramon Perez, was fired because the department considered his "Christian values" to be too strong to allow him to perform his duties as an officer.

Perez' values apparently impeded him from using excessive force to subdue a subject - in this case, tasering the shit out of an old man.

On Jan. 15, Perez responded to a domestic-violence call where he met a woman who said her husband had pushed her down and hurt her arms. While interviewing the woman outside her home, Perez said her husband came outside, keys and coffee in hand, and headed to his car in an attempt to leave. Perez told him to stop, he said, but before he could direct the man further, his backup, senior police Officer Robert Paranich "lunged" at the man from behind, causing the man to lose his balance. "I considered that an escalation of force," Perez said, and not a controlled way to get the man under control with the least amount of force possible – as is required by APD policy. While the man struggled to regain his balance, Perez said Paranich ordered him to use his Taser on the man; Perez refused because the man wasn't resisting arrest, and Perez was sure the man could be placed under arrest with lesser force. Additionally, Perez said, the man appeared to be in poor health and a likely candidate for a heart attack – two additional factors APD's Taser policy asks officers to consider before using the weapon.

In the end, Perez and Paranich were able to get the man on the ground and in cuffs with no more force than soft-hand control, Perez said – a fact that proves the Taser was not needed: "If more force were necessary, then we wouldn't be able to take him down," he said at a press conference. "That means I did the constitutionally correct thing" and followed APD policy.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2006-12-29/432110/

Hacksaw

Where did this happen?

Oh, New Jersey. Color me surprised.

[/sarcasm]

Taramoor

I would be interesting to assemble a blog comprised of all these instances of cops being punished for doing the right thing, and then compare that to one of those blogs that records cop doing the wrong thing without repercussions.

Thanatos

Oh, apparently there is something a cop can do to get fired!

MayGodHaveMercy

I'm sad that this thread has 5 replies. Good on Tasca and Perez, at least.

Henroid

I'm not sure what I would've said in response to this story aside from stating my jaw hit the floor. What in the ever loving fuck.

LadyM

Wow, that really pisses me off. Yes, nothing is more bizarre than choosing not to brutalize someone for no reason!

At least it made the news; I hope that Tasca gets to stay on the police force because we certainly need more officers like her.

mcdermott

Henroid wrote: »

I'm not sure what I would've said in response to this story aside from stating my jaw hit the floor. What in the ever loving fuck.

See, and I didn't comment because my jaw didn't hit the floor. Instead, what was happening is precisely what I'd expect to happen.

ArbitraryDescriptor

In which the two Ridgefield cops blame Tasca for their behavior

Rella began testifying in the afternoon. Responding to questions posed by Wiss, Rella said he had "struck" Sharp "to regain control of the situation." He noted handcuffs were placed on Sharp after the hit and added Tasca "pushing and pulling" him off Sharp had "instigated that deterioration" of the scene.

Stay classy guys.

Kagera

See the punching officer didn't know why the dude was being arrested so he had to knock the dude out to keep him safe from spontaneous combustion.

DivideByZero

ArbitraryDescriptor wrote: »

In which the two Ridgefield cops blame Tasca for their behavior

Rella began testifying in the afternoon. Responding to questions posed by Wiss, Rella said he had "struck" Sharp "to regain control of the situation." He noted handcuffs were placed on Sharp after the hit and added Tasca "pushing and pulling" him off Sharp had "instigated that deterioration" of the scene.

Stay classy guys.

So officer, you lost control of the situation, began beating the suspect to regain control, but the scene didn't begin deteriorating until you were pulled off?

Somebody needs a lesson in causality.

Magic Pink

Yeah, not surprised. Years ago, over on Rpg.net, one of the users (who's a mod now) told these long, glowing stories about how he was a sniper or something in the police force in Texas. One of his stories was a ROLLICKING tale of the newbie officer who tried to actually do things by the rules and how they hounded and humilated him until he quit.

wazilla

This kind of fits here too. Something is up with the local news site this is pulled from so I'll paste the story in a spoiler with the source:

Spoiler:

TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - Quartzsite, Arizona has a population of less than 4,000. But, you don't have to travel far into the rock capital of the world to find that this small town has big problems.

"Personally, we have taken extreme cautions for our safety because I have received death threats, hate mail," Shanana Golden-Bear said.

Small town politics hit the big time in June of 2011 when video of a council meeting hit YouTube and went viral.

It shows citizen Jennifer Jones politely criticizing city leaders during an official comment period. Councilman Joe Winslow quickly objected and demanded her removal. Police officers escorted her out and then, once they got her outside, they arrested her and cited her with disorderly conduct.

"This is kind of a scary town to be in when the police don't protect you," Jones told 9 On Your Side.

After the arrest, Mayor Ed Foster defended Jones. Council members responded to the uproar by conducting a secret meeting -- something Arizona open meeting law does not permit. Afterwards Foster told the Associated Press that the councilmembers voted to oust him, to put the police chief in charge and to declare what amounted to martial law. Councilmembers and the chief then denied any such thing had happened. But the town didn't post minutes for the meeting, leaving the question of what really happened behind locked doors that day hard to answer.

"I'm a marine and this is not the kind of democracy that I raised my right hand to defend. I'll tell you this is unbelievable what goes on in Quartzsite, Arizona," Foster said.

But if Foster was defending democracy, democracy did not defend Foster. Voters recalled him from office in September. Now he's running again.

"I won't bow down and I won't kneel down so if they take me down it will be from the standing position," Foster said, with a chuckle. "They picked on the wrong guy."

The Attorney General's Office later found three violations of open meeting laws. Among them: the forced removal of Jones and the secret town meeting. Among other things, the AG's letter required council members to undergo training in open meeting law compliance and to submit to a year of monitoring in order to resolve the matter.

After making several calls, 9 On Your Side reporter Stephani Ruiz made the drive to Quartzsite's town hall. Ruiz asked for an explanation of the violations, and how the town is preventing similar situations from happening now.

Quartzsite's town attorney did not agree to an interview, but did send a response by email. "The town always tried to comply with the law and create a positive atmosphere for the conduct of town business. The attention caused us to take measures to protect the public, the council and staff from the disruptive actions of a vocal minority of the town."

Jones told Ruiz those protective measures continue.

"I've been arrested five times, gone to jail four times, I jokingly told them at the sheriffs office, I said 'intake room 2 is like the Lincoln bedroom in the White House people will be able to say they've spent the night in the Jennifer Jones suite'," Jones said.

The police department itself has been under the microscope as well. Former Police Sergeant William Ponce is among those who signed a complaint last year expressing "no confidence" in the chief of police, Jeff Gilbert, and asking for an investigation.

"He was asking us to go after these people that were opposing the council. Well for us that wasn't right. We took an oath as law enforcement officers to uphold the law and the Constitution," Ponce said. Ponce told KGUN9 News that Chief Gilbert ordered officers to conduct improper searches of homes and cars.

Documents show that the officers filed their initial complaint with AZPOST, the Arizona office that sets police standards, on May 10, 2011. Two weeks later the officers sent a letter to the Quartzsite town manager and council accusing the chief of misconduct.

Amid the turmoil, ten officers received suspensions. Ultimately six, plus an administrative clerk, lost their jobs. The firings immediately resulted in a lawsuit.

Numerous attempts by KGUN9 to contact Chief Gilbert while researching this story were unsuccessful. However, minutes before the television version of this report was to air, Gilbert called KGUN9 News. He stated that no Quartzsite police officer was fired or suspended because of any complaints about illegal searches or seizures, and he insisted that no such illegal searches or seizures ever took place. However, Chief Gilbert declined to say why the officers were fired, citing pending litigation.

Ruiz asked Ponce what his life has been like since losing his job.

"It's been a roller coaster. I've been trying to rebuild and try to figure out how to move forward," Ponce said. "I've been working for a lawyer as an investigator. We're all trying to find work. Some of the guys haven't been able to gain employment, its a tough market out there right now unfortunately with the economy."

In his search for another job in law enforcement, Ponce says the Quartzsite controversy has left him blacklisted.

"It's definitely a problem. As soon as I walk in the door and I say I'm a certified officer their eyes light up. And then I sit down and I tell them my story and then they kind of step back. And you can tell that they're very hesitant to even deal with this and I would be too," Ponce said. "I have a little bit of, I guess you could say baggage, that I have to carry with me so it has tarnished my record."

And as Ponce struggles to move forward, so does Quartzsite- divided and trying to recover.

"The negative publicity has really hurt us a lot. Because it's out there in the world of how horrible everything is but in actuality you look around and the people are, the majority of the people are very happy," Golden-Bear said.

"I still think there's hope for this community to come back together once things finally come to light," Ponce said.

Jennifer Jones' citation for disorderly conduct eventually was dismissed.

The state Department of Public Safety investigated the town's conduct in the matter. DPS said it turned its report over to state Attorney General's Office in February. The Attorney General's Office declined to discuss the case with KGUN9 News, saying that the office cannot comment on the status of the investigation at this time.

http://www.kgun9.com/features/investigations/150471725.html#content

TL;DR 6 cops get fired for refusing to help what appears to be a truly awe inspiringly corrupt regime in a small Arizona town.

Yar

Yeah I'll bite.

The video doesn't tell me a whole lot, except that the only people speaking calmly and trying to control the situation are the officers suspected of brutality. The ill person, his mom, and Officer Tasca all seem to be going berserk, screaming and cursing.

Internal Affairs reviewed everything and reported that the two officers restraining the ill person did not do anything wrong. Cops called in to assist with a mentally ill person are generally expected to follow arrest procedures, though with additional consideration given to time, distance, and retreat as options for de-escalating force. I don't think punching a crazy person is really the way this should have been handled. The two cops look like asshole meatheads, IMO. But I don't know. The guy was walking away from the negotiation, which is considered active, defensive resistance.

There is a vague legal responsibility on police officers to intervene when they witness brutality, but the most I can find on what this specifically requires is that they report the incident as soon as possible, and that reports be followed up on in a reasonable and serious good-faith manner. I don't believe that there is a legal or procedural or even moral requirement for an officer to start physically fighting with other officers when the person being restrained isn't even restrained yet. The guy was uncuffed and still physically fighting and screaming, the officers are calmly asking him to put his hands behind his back, and Tasca starts fighting with the officers, trying to pull them off of the guy they are trying to restrain and, if I heard the audio correctly, screaming profanity at them.

Legal responsibility to intervene, in case law, has generally dealt with a suspect who is already clearly restrained and submissive when the officer assault begins and/or continues. In those cases, it is expected that other officers take necessary steps where possible to prevent or stop the assault. But fighting with cops (who outranked her no less) while they are trying to restrain someone? Sorry, I do not believe the proper procedure in such a case is police vs. police fighting. If she thought that the cops were legitimately trying to restrain him but were using excessive force, then she should have hastened the restraint and then filed a report immediately. If she thought that they weren't really trying to restrain him but were just trying to beat him up, then she should have announced to them her intentions. "Stop, you're using excessive force," etc. And called for backup or attempted to place all three of them under arrest. Instead, she's screaming "this isn't how we fucking do it around here!" and trying to wrestle with the guys while they are trying to restrain someone.

Even if the other two guys were out of line, I completely agree that her actions made the situation more dangerous, not less.

Hacksaw

It made it more dangerous because they weren't beating on him as hard?

Malkor

Waiting around for them to stop hitting the 'crazy person' is probably why Kelly Thomas is dead. She did them a favor as far as I'm concerned, by falling on the sword and breaking procedure instead of letting them 'de-escalating' the situation.

Bandable

Yar wrote: »

There is a vague legal responsibility on police officers to intervene when they witness brutality, but the most I can find on what this specifically requires is that they report the incident as soon as possible, and that reports be followed up on in a reasonable and serious good-faith manner. I don't believe that there is a legal or procedural or even moral requirement for an officer to start physically fighting with other officers when the person being restrained isn't even restrained yet. The guy was uncuffed and still physically fighting and screaming, the officers are calmly asking him to put his hands behind his back, and Tasca starts fighting with the officers, trying to pull them off of the guy they are trying to restrain and, if I heard the audio correctly, screaming profanity at them.

There isn't anything vague about it. If a police officer attacks someone in an illegal manner, they are a criminal. Police officers arrest criminals. There may be some laws on the books that say that an police officer can break laws and not get arrested, but I think we can all agree that those laws are bullshit and that there is a social responsibility to ignore them. Just from a social contract point of view, if your job is to uphold the law, you should arrest criminals regardless of whether they are also cops.

Zombiemambo

BubbaT wrote: »

Good for Tasca for doing her job first, and worrying about protecting the Blue Wall of Silence later (or rather, not at all).

On one hand, I don't want to call her a hero because the way she acted is the way ALL cops should act. What she did is what we should expect of police officers, rather than have it stand out as a beacon of heroic competence in a sea of outright corruption and silent complicity.

On the other hand, she did the right thing even though it was greatly to her personal disadvantage - and she had to know it was, even at the moment she acted. Even though it endangered her career, and possibly her own personal safety (good luck finding a trustworthy partner to watch your back, when the entire department hates you). And if that's not the definition of a hero, what is?


Bogota PD, as if it needs to be said, should be ashamed of themselves. Every officer who remains silent while a good cop is railroaded is a disgrace to their shield and their oath.

In an ideal world we wouldn't have to praise her as a hero for doing what cops are supposed to do, but she's swimming in a corrupt system. She should be praised because we want her to become the example of what all cops should be. If you just ignore it, what she did will just be swept under the rug and forgotten and there's no chance of anything changing.

Kagera

Officer tasca is deciding to fight in a forum that doesn't include a retired judge.

http://www.northjersey.com/bogota/BOGOTACOPSUIT051012.html?mobile=1

Deebaser

Kagera wrote: »

Officer tasca is deciding to fight in a forum that doesn't include a retired judge.

http://www.northjersey.com/bogota/BOGOTACOPSUIT051012.html?mobile=1

I think that she's desperate and wrong.

Watching the video, this "emotionally disturbed" minor politician's son wasn't exactly peaceful. Hell even without the video, parents typically don't call the police to take "Peaceful" people to the hospital for mental health.

Here's the dashboard camera video since amazingly it hasn't been posted yet.

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2012/04/police_video_of_emotionally_disturbed_person_call_at_heart_of_bogota_officers_disciplinary_hearing.html

The exact point this special snowflake fucked up is right after he told the cops "Fuck that and fuck you too. I'm gonna walk *something*" and proceeded to walk away like the emotionally disturbed big shot 22 year old meathead he is. the cops

ArbitraryDescriptor

That is clearly where he fucked up, in the sense that that is when he deigned to offend the Ridgfield Park officer, I don't think anyone is disputing that.

Is punching a guy in the head while your partner has him pinned correct procedure for handling a non-violent person walking away from a cop while not under arrest?

Does this situation appear to be one less head-punch away from "out of control"?

Edit: For some reason that link takes me here instead of to this picture:
republicmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/ReginaTasca1.jpg

Perhaps Opera is just being dumb.

Deebaser

ArbitraryDescriptor wrote: »

That is clearly where he fucked up, in the sense that that is when he deigned to offend the Ridgfield Park officer, I don't think anyone is disputing that.

You're putting the emphasis on the wrong part. An "emotionally unstable" individual who is "behaving erratically" does not get to just say "Fuck this" and walk into the sunset. The police shouldn't follow around jersey trash and say "pretty please don't walk away. Come on, get in the cruiser big guy....please!"
You act like a dick, you get treated like a dick.
You walk away from the cops, you're going to get tackled. You resist arrest on the ground, you may get struck.

Is punching a guy in the head while your partner has him pinned correct procedure for handling a non-violent person walking away from a cop while not under arrest?

I have no idea, IANALES and you can't tell that is going on from that video. You're going by the word of Councilwoman Mommy (Complete with her DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? moment) and Snooki of Mayberry. Regina Tascha is a liar.



Check out her account at the 1:00 mark, watch the video, and tell me that she isn't a liar.

Fencingsax

Cops are not allowed to punch people because they are frustrated.

Caedwyr

Yeah, cops responding with violence to someone that insults them is the type of thing you'd expect from a 3rd world dictatorship (or Egypt), not from a first world country like America.

Leitner

Caedwyr wrote: »

Yeah, cops responding with violence to someone that insults them is the type of thing you'd expect from a 3rd world dictatorship (or Egypt), not from a first world country like America.

His agitated mental state left him a threat to himself or others necessitating detainment, and compliance blows were required to allow the arresting of the physically resistant individual - is the case you could make.

(the video isn't really clear enough, nor do I have enough background to make the call).

Yar

He performed a rather non-violent bear hug and tackle to the ground, at which point the disturbed guy, his mom, and Tasca all went level-11 berserk. The second officer who arrived did get in one punch of some sort. Otherwise, it seems to be police officers holding the guy still and calmly telling him to put his hands behind his back, while he screams "WHAT THE FUCK?" and his mom screams "DO YOU ASSHOLES KNOW WHO I AM?" and Tasca screams "THIS ISN'T HOW WE FUCKING DO IT AROUND HERE!!" and tries to physically pull the cops off of him, which results in one of the cops asking her, "are you kidding me?"

Hacksaw

Leitner wrote: »

compliance blows

Holy shit, why didn't I think of it this way until now?

"Sir, I need you to get on the ground! GET ON THE GROUND, SIR!"

"You're hitting me! Why are you hitting me?!"

"I NEED YOU TO COMPLY, SIR! COMPLY! COMPLY!"

Leitner

Hacksaw wrote: »

Holy shit, why didn't I think of it this way until now?

"Sir, I need you to get on the ground! GET ON THE GROUND, SIR!"

"You're hitting me! Why are you hitting me?!"

"I NEED YOU TO COMPLY, SIR! COMPLY! COMPLY!"

You're suggesting the guy who at this point had been taken to the ground and apparently trying to struggle was offering absolutely no physical resistance?

A drawn out struggle on the ground increases the risk to the officers, and to the resisting individual of both serious physical harm, and positional asphyxia (which is a greatest risk in cases where the person is suffering from serve violent mental distress).

A blow to the head isn't exactly the ideal place, but again not in the situation etc.

Deebaser

Caedwyr wrote: »

Yeah, cops responding with violence to someone that insults them is the type of thing you'd expect from a 3rd world dictatorship (or Egypt), not from a first world country like America.

You should watch the video, because that isn't what happened.

A Dabble Of Thelonius

Yar wrote: »

He performed a rather non-violent bear hug and tackle to the ground,

Which is a perfectly reasonable reaction to someone walking away.


Wait. Shit. I fucked that up. I meant it isn't reasonable.

Hacksaw

Leitner wrote: »

Hacksaw wrote: »

Holy shit, why didn't I think of it this way until now?

"Sir, I need you to get on the ground! GET ON THE GROUND, SIR!"

"You're hitting me! Why are you hitting me?!"

"I NEED YOU TO COMPLY, SIR! COMPLY! COMPLY!"

You're suggesting the guy who at this point had been taken to the ground and apparently trying to struggle was offering absolutely no physical resistance?

I guess Rodney King needed compliance blows as well, right?

Kagera

Compliance blows. A new course for high school freshmen. Learn what will get you beaten and/or tased without warning!

agoaj

This would be a very different story if we were talking about the other kind of compliance blow.

Kipling217

Compliance blows? That's a thing now? Sound more like a internet though guy thing, then an actual cop thing to me.

Anybody that argues for Compliance blows, strikes, pepper spraying and tasering needs to be on the receiving end before I will accept their arguments. Unless you have the brains to take a nightstick to the skull, I for one will not listen to your arguments.

Dark Raven X

Googling it gets Wiki article on a terror suspect who was beaten to death;

Their troops routinely kneed their captives in the side of their thighs. They called these "compliance blows". During a Criminal Investigation Division inquiry their troops claimed they had been told—incorrectly—that this kind of blow was a legal, authorized use of force.

I really doubt they're a thing.

That video is really unclear, imo. Depends entirely on how much credence you lend the witnesses. Personally, even tackling the guy without warning is excessive force. You explain that shit - "stop moving or I will restrain you" - but yeah, Tasca screaming like that didn't help. Conveys panic rather than the voice of reason.

mcdermott

Kipling217 wrote: »

Compliance blows? That's a thing now? Sound more like a internet though guy thing, then an actual cop thing to me.

Anybody that argues for Compliance blows, strikes, pepper spraying and tasering needs to be on the receiving end before I will accept their arguments. Unless you have the brains to take a nightstick to the skull, I for one will not listen to your arguments.

Pain compliance is an actual thing, and blows are definitely a way to do it. As are various holds, pressure points, tasers, etc.

But when somebody isn't replying to commands, your only options to get them under control are straight rasslin', pain compliance, or a combination of the two. At least this is my understanding.

Leitner

Kipling217 wrote: »

Compliance blows? That's a thing now? Sound more like a internet though guy thing, then an actual cop thing to me.

Anybody that argues for Compliance blows, strikes, pepper spraying and tasering needs to be on the receiving end before I will accept their arguments. Unless you have the brains to take a nightstick to the skull, I for one will not listen to your arguments.

You don't know what pain compliance is, or how it's used my law enforcement, but feel free to judge it's importance?

Interesting.

A police officer making an otherwise valid arrest is legally privileged to use reasonably necessary force to effect custody. Thus, he is privileged to strike one while attempting to effect an arrest, especially where the arrestee was striking the officer.

Kipling217

Leitner wrote: »

Kipling217 wrote: »

Compliance blows? That's a thing now? Sound more like a internet though guy thing, then an actual cop thing to me.

Anybody that argues for Compliance blows, strikes, pepper spraying and tasering needs to be on the receiving end before I will accept their arguments. Unless you have the brains to take a nightstick to the skull, I for one will not listen to your arguments.

You don't know what pain compliance is, or how it's used my law enforcement, but feel free to judge it's importance?

Interesting.

A police officer making an otherwise valid arrest is legally privileged to use reasonably necessary force to effect custody. Thus, he is privileged to strike one while attempting to effect an arrest, especially where the arrestee was striking the officer.

Yes, very interesting. Your little link contains a few interesting things. Quotes you might want to have a look at:

"A peace officer making a valid arrest is legally "privileged" to commit both assaults and batteries, provided that force threatened and used is "reasonable". "

"Although the arrest may be legal, force is not permitted where one offers no resistance, and resistance may be is excused when the police use excessive force. Minimal force is to effect custody, by handcuffing for instance, is permitted.


If warrantless arrest is not permissible in a given situation, any privilege to use force is negated. Analytically, the use of force during arrest may occur in four situations:

Force to the effect of complete the arrest.
Force to overcome resistance to the arrest.
Force to maintain or regain custody and
Self-defense"

Tell me again where it says that cops have the right to hit people after they stopped resisting. Tell me again where cops are allowed to escalated violence against non-violent offenders. In other words, tell me where its okay for cops to hit people that have already been arrested or people that have NOT threatened anyone.

Until them Compliance blows is just a weak excuse.

Leitner

We're talking about people resisting arrest though?

What gave you the impression we were discussing anything else?