Star Wars: [Phalla]nce in the Force - Sith Empire(mafia) Are Victorious

Smoove Operator

Infidel wrote: »

How about... Orokos?

Look at the bit on combinatorials.

20p20 is 1 through 20 in random order, etc.

I heartily endorse Orokos*. Its what I used, although I didn't randomize the numbers assigned (I just used the order that we are listed in the Player Positions part of the OP).

*send the money to Master Benubi, c/o Jedi Council, 1 Maple Ave, Coruscant.

SaberOverEasy

jdarksun wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

I think people should act by themselves. A public plan helps the Sith more, I think. They know exactly who everyone is, so if orders are public, they (probably) have actions that can directly counteract most of that.

If people want to form small soft networks and try to confirm within them, that's fine, but they shouldn't be predetermined, is my point.

Disorganization marginalizes the village. Establishing a plan of attack means that we can more easily identify outliers, and correspondingly, those who are acting against the interest of the village.

Self-organization allows the mafia to take control. It's the exact opposite of what we should be working towards.

I guess I mostly mean as far as targets. Like I said, I find it highly unlikely that the Sith do not have countermeasures for the seer. If they know they're being seered, they can easily protect, and we either accept their alignment, and get infiltrated, or dont trust our results, so we wasted a day.

I'd also wager they have some way of screwing with Jedi missions if they know where they are headed.

I'm assuming that every Sith has an ability that they can use to maintain the illusion that they're Jedi. Otherwise, the game ends by night 3. That's why I'm strongly against this "meditate on Padawans" thing. It's a waste of time.

Since we're likely to have Sith Knights, I'm betting they have a way of capturing planets when they go there on a mission. If we know who's going where, we'll be able to narrow down the field of suspects if/when a planet is taken by the Sith. We'll be able to do the same if a mission fails (assuming one or more members of the mission sabotaged it).

While I've been arguing for the padawan scanning as option A, I do think breaking up into team for planets is a strong Option B. If we can get a general consensus on it (so we don't have people randomly going off and doing other things, thus messing up the results), I'm down for Orokos based strike teams.

shalmelo

Cayrus wrote: »

Why don't we elect a Grand Master and let one person run the show? All this squabbling annoys me.

Cayrus, because seriously?

Anyway, count me in on for the plan that has public1-2-2 teams with private goals. Obviously the Sith will be mixed into many of the teams, but it will be much more difficult for them to steer things if they're split up.

TheRoadVirus

SaberOverEasy wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

I think people should act by themselves. A public plan helps the Sith more, I think. They know exactly who everyone is, so if orders are public, they (probably) have actions that can directly counteract most of that.

If people want to form small soft networks and try to confirm within them, that's fine, but they shouldn't be predetermined, is my point.

Disorganization marginalizes the village. Establishing a plan of attack means that we can more easily identify outliers, and correspondingly, those who are acting against the interest of the village.

Self-organization allows the mafia to take control. It's the exact opposite of what we should be working towards.

I guess I mostly mean as far as targets. Like I said, I find it highly unlikely that the Sith do not have countermeasures for the seer. If they know they're being seered, they can easily protect, and we either accept their alignment, and get infiltrated, or dont trust our results, so we wasted a day.

I'd also wager they have some way of screwing with Jedi missions if they know where they are headed.

I'm assuming that every Sith has an ability that they can use to maintain the illusion that they're Jedi. Otherwise, the game ends by night 3. That's why I'm strongly against this "meditate on Padawans" thing. It's a waste of time.

Since we're likely to have Sith Knights, I'm betting they have a way of capturing planets when they go there on a mission. If we know who's going where, we'll be able to narrow down the field of suspects if/when a planet is taken by the Sith. We'll be able to do the same if a mission fails (assuming one or more members of the mission sabotaged it).

While I've been arguing for the padawan scanning as option A, I do think breaking up into team for planets is a strong Option B. If we can get a general consensus on it (so we don't have people randomly going off and doing other things, thus messing up the results), I'm down for Orokos based strike teams.

Strike teams would be a good idea. Maybe have one or more members of the team post in the thread after vote close saying what they did, so that we have full accountability if something goes wrong?

TheRoadVirus

Also since I forgot to post the vote in my "hey check him out" post, Cayrus

AkimboLegs

jdarksun wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

I think people should act by themselves. A public plan helps the Sith more, I think. They know exactly who everyone is, so if orders are public, they (probably) have actions that can directly counteract most of that.

If people want to form small soft networks and try to confirm within them, that's fine, but they shouldn't be predetermined, is my point.

Disorganization marginalizes the village. Establishing a plan of attack means that we can more easily identify outliers, and correspondingly, those who are acting against the interest of the village.

Self-organization allows the mafia to take control. It's the exact opposite of what we should be working towards.

I guess I mostly mean as far as targets. Like I said, I find it highly unlikely that the Sith do not have countermeasures for the seer. If they know they're being seered, they can easily protect, and we either accept their alignment, and get infiltrated, or dont trust our results, so we wasted a day.

I'd also wager they have some way of screwing with Jedi missions if they know where they are headed.

I'm assuming that every Sith has an ability that they can use to maintain the illusion that they're Jedi. Otherwise, the game ends by night 3. That's why I'm strongly against this "meditate on Padawans" thing. It's a waste of time.

Since we're likely to have Sith Knights, I'm betting they have a way of capturing planets when they go there on a mission. If we know who's going where, we'll be able to narrow down the field of suspects if/when a planet is taken by the Sith. We'll be able to do the same if a mission fails (assuming one or more members of the mission sabotaged it).

I think we are saying the same thing as far as point 1 is concerned?

On missions, I can definitely see organizing things being a little better there. Just have us all go on missions instead of seering might actually be more productive.

MrTLicious

SaberOverEasy wrote: »

MrTLicious wrote: »

Publicly known (or even council-known) assignments are bad.

With the Sith on the council, there shouldn't be any difference between the two at the moment. We can assume anything the council as a whole knows, they know. At this point, I think they are totally compromised and our focus shouldn't be on the old men, but on the working men on the ground. #OccupyCoruscant

MrTLicious wrote: »

You want to get the council involved? Assign each council member to two Knight/Padawan pairings. Have the 5 of them discuss actions together but not reveal it to the rest of the thread/council under orders are resolved.

I really like this in theory, but I'm not sure on the math. Assuming 10 Sith, that means EVERY group would be likely to have at least one. That still give them all the information to thwart what we are trying to accomplish. Before we group up, I think we need a little more information about who is on our side. I still think scanning our padawans and seeing who's accusing who (and who isn't) tomorrow gives us the best chance to work together in non-compromised groups. If some of us want to get started on taking planets tonight, that's fine as well, but I think our focus should be on clearing as many teams as we can.

Methinks you need a lesson in probability. The odds of every group having 1 is slightly worse than 1000:1 (edit: assuming 10 randomly dispersed Sith. Having a 2-4-4 Sith structure actually slightly decreases the odds but I'm too lazy to do the math on that one.)

Although you're right in that the expected number of Sith in any particular group is 1. But that's irrelevant. The idea is that any noncompromised group can confirm itself to be so, and eventually spread out to check out other groups.

Cayrus

Oh man, after I totally didn't vote for you TheRoadVirus, this is the thanks I get?

TheRoadVirus

Cayrus wrote: »

Oh man, after I totally didn't vote for you TheRoadVirus, this is the thanks I get?

Whether public or private, your attempts at treachery are apparent. My duty is to the order! And though I may die, I will do so spreading any information I have to my brethren.

shalmelo

Cayrus wrote: »

Oh man, after I totally didn't vote for you TheRoadVirus, this is the thanks I get?

For the record, my vote for you has zero to do with you voting/not voting for your Knight. It's that post where you're actively begging for the village to stop discussing tactical options and for everyone to fall in line behind some grand poo-bah. This is either ridiculously stupid or disingenuous manipulation, and you've played enough games that I'm leaning towards the latter.

Matev

AkimboLegs wrote: »

I think we are saying the same thing as far as point 1 is concerned?

On missions, I can definitely see organizing things being a little better there. Just have us all go on missions instead of seering might actually be more productive.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Just because the Sith have some powers to deflect seerings does not make meditation useless. The Order has already expressed displeasure at the idea, but I still feel it has merit. Take that how you will.

Cayrus

shalmelo wrote: »

Cayrus wrote: »

Oh man, after I totally didn't vote for you TheRoadVirus, this is the thanks I get?

For the record, my vote for you has zero to do with you voting/not voting for your Knight. It's that post where you're actively begging for the village to stop discussing tactical options and for everyone to fall in line behind some grand poo-bah. This is either ridiculously stupid or disingenuous manipulation, and you've played enough games that I'm leaning towards the latter.

Right, because I was obviously being serious and I haven't been rping an moody padawan all night long.

Smoove Operator

"An Moody padawan"

Sith grammar.

shalmelo

Matev wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

I think we are saying the same thing as far as point 1 is concerned?

On missions, I can definitely see organizing things being a little better there. Just have us all go on missions instead of seering might actually be more productive.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Just because the Sith have some powers to deflect seerings does not make meditation useless. The Order has already expressed displeasure at the idea, but I still feel it has merit. Take that how you will.

I'm hoping that these five-man teams will independently pursue a variety of tactics. We definitely need to use our seering abilities to try and confirm some folks (bearing in mind that there appear to be some limited conversion mechanics in play), but it would be a ludicrous waste of a night if the village didn't at least attempt to make some progress on the neutral planets, IMO.

Shiny New Toys

as i head off to sleep I put in a provisional vote for the anon

This can/probably will be changed later as I catch up on the thread discussions that carry on.

shalmelo

I had to catch up on about six pages worth of posts when I got to the office this morning. You'll forgive me if I missed the tone of your 4-5 posts of "moody RPing" amidst all the legitimate strategic discussion.

...and pretty pretty princess images.

MrBlarney

I'm still thinking about the Knights' Meditation plan, and I'd like to offer a variant for consideration. Each Knight should roll a virtual 1d10 to select a Council master to Meditate upon (1 = SLyM, 2 = Kias, etc.) instead of following the orders given out previously by Matev and Smoove Operator. While the variability inherent in probability will almost certainly leave us with extra redundancies or gaps in our knowledge, privatization and randomization of targets should leave us less open to systematic Sith manipulation. For accountability, Knights should record their die rolls and report targets as soon as possible after the close of the day. Perhaps it's not the best plan, but it's another one to consider?

MrTLicious

shalmelo wrote: »

Matev wrote: »

AkimboLegs wrote: »

I think we are saying the same thing as far as point 1 is concerned?

On missions, I can definitely see organizing things being a little better there. Just have us all go on missions instead of seering might actually be more productive.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Just because the Sith have some powers to deflect seerings does not make meditation useless. The Order has already expressed displeasure at the idea, but I still feel it has merit. Take that how you will.

I'm hoping that these five-man teams will independently pursue a variety of tactics. We definitely need to use our seering abilities to try and confirm some folks (bearing in mind that there appear to be some limited conversion mechanics in play), but it would be a ludicrous waste of a night if the village didn't at least attempt to make some progress on the neutral planets, IMO.

Some of these teams will seer, and some will go on missions. That is the way of things. Do not try to coordinate who does what, as that will only lead to our inevitable misunderstanding as the Sith play with our minds.

MrTLicious

MrBlarney wrote: »

I'm still thinking about the Knights' Meditation plan, and I'd like to offer a variant for consideration. Each Knight should roll a virtual 1d10 to select a Council master to Meditate upon (1 = SLyM, 2 = Kias, etc.) instead of following the orders given out previously by Matev and Smoove Operator. While the variability inherent in probability will almost certainly leave us with extra redundancies or gaps in our knowledge, privatization and randomization of targets should leave us less open to systematic Sith manipulation. For accountability, Knights should record their die rolls and report targets as soon as possible after the close of the day. Perhaps it's not the best plan, but it's another one to consider?

Again, this tells the Sith whom they need to conceal. Also, I don't think the council members are necessarily the best people to seer, even if proven reliable.

Infidel

shalmelo wrote: »

...and pretty pretty princess images.

I know how to stand out in a crowd. ;o

MrTLicious

Has someone checked that Smoove's list was done fairly?

Smoove Operator

MrTLicious wrote: »

Has someone checked that Smoove's list was done fairly?

Thou doubtest Orokos? But seriously, the link to the RNG rolls is in the spreadsheet.

Farangu

I haven't seen a Day 1 this organized and plan heavy in...ever, really.

TheRoadVirus

Farangu wrote: »

I haven't seen a Day 1 this organized and plan heavy in...ever, really.

When darkness rises, only the prettiest of princesses will answer the call.
And on that day, there will be hairbrushing and RETRIBUTION

MrTLicious

Smoove Operator wrote: »

MrTLicious wrote: »

Has someone checked that Smoove's list was done fairly?

Thou doubtest Orokos? But seriously, the link to the RNG rolls is in the spreadsheet.

It's you I doubt, not Orokos

I just wanted to check if it had already been done to prevent duplication. I suppose I can do it...

Figgy

MrTLicious wrote: »

Smoove Operator wrote: »

MrTLicious wrote: »

Has someone checked that Smoove's list was done fairly?

Thou doubtest Orokos? But seriously, the link to the RNG rolls is in the spreadsheet.

It's you I doubt, not Orokos

I just wanted to check if it had already been done to prevent duplication. I suppose I can do it...

I looked through the roll histories on Orokos briefly. Looks legit. Unless he used IC first and didn't like those results

tzeentchling

MrBlarney wrote: »

I'm still thinking about the Knights' Meditation plan, and I'd like to offer a variant for consideration. Each Knight should roll a virtual 1d10 to select a Council master to Meditate upon (1 = SLyM, 2 = Kias, etc.) instead of following the orders given out previously by Matev and Smoove Operator. While the variability inherent in probability will almost certainly leave us with extra redundancies or gaps in our knowledge, privatization and randomization of targets should leave us less open to systematic Sith manipulation. For accountability, Knights should record their die rolls and report targets as soon as possible after the close of the day. Perhaps it's not the best plan, but it's another one to consider?

Not a bad plan, certainly.

MrTLicious

The spreadsheet says SNT and I are assigned to Matev, yet your copypasta says it's Ketbra. There are other similar inconsistencies.

What happened?

Gaslight

Farangu wrote: »

I haven't seen a Day 1 this organized and plan heavy in...ever, really.

Yes.

"Organized."

But most phallas don't have the kind of mechanics that are making all of this possible.

Cythraul

Shiny New Toys wrote: »

So do we have a consensus on plan A (Matev's plan targets unknown) or plan B (Smooth's plan targets the council)?

I don't really care which or even if we rip up these plans and go with plan C - (dancing anyone?) but my time zone difference means I'm going to have to be inactive for about 6 hours while I sleep I should have time to put in orders and a vote when I wake up but I would like provisional in place so the dreaded Doth Inactivus doesn't get me.

That's KNIGHT Inactivus to you!

SaberOverEasy

I really feel this sums this phalla so far:

kime

Hearing all the accusations of "Sith this" and "Sith that" is incredibly amusing

Capfalcon

Alright, Knights and Padiwans, listen up.

We masters have implemented a new policy in our chamber. We're calling it the Sith Tradition Appraisal and Removal Chamber, of S.T.A.R Chamber for short. In short, Masters have a secret vote where we choose to terminate a knight or padiwan.

Malkor

whut

Smoove Operator

MrTLicious wrote: »

The spreadsheet says SNT and I are assigned to Matev, yet your copypasta says it's Ketbra. There are other similar inconsistencies.

What happened?

Sheet 1 is the meditation assignments that nobody likes
Sheet 2 is titled Council/Knight Pairings. You and SNT were teamed up in both sheets, but linked to different Councilors.

In sheet 1, you and SNT are with Matev. You would have meditated on him.
In sheet 2, you and SNT are with KetBra. You are part of that "Strike Team."

Perhaps I should have made a totally separate document for each set, but that didn't happen. I thought it would be more transparent this way, but it appears to also be more confusing. My apologies.

shalmelo

Capfalcon wrote: »

Alright, Knights and Padiwans, listen up.

We masters have implemented a new policy in our chamber. We're calling it the Sith Tradition Appraisal and Removal Chamber, of S.T.A.R Chamber for short. In short, Masters have a secret vote where we choose to terminate a knight or padiwan.

There is no possible way that this could end badly.

Baidol

This is an amazing game.

Retaba

The council is hell bent on seeming as evil as they possibly could be?

Matev

Just keep in mind even if your peers aren't actively judging you, you are still being watched. Yes, even you.

Malkor

Sounds like it. And also there are no repercussions other than (what I am assuming) well be backstabbing within said council.

Sounds like we're gonna have a ball!!