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Fair ticket selling methods for large conventions

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  • CliffCliff Registered User regular
    You guys are adorable. Just because a company maintains a caring, positive public image does not mean they actually care about anything but their bottom line.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Cliff wrote: »
    You guys are adorable. Just because a company maintains a caring, positive public image does not mean they actually care about anything but their bottom line.
    Given that they could probably literally double the price of PAX tickets and they still would have sold out...

    I mean, don't get me wrong, I recognize that good will is an asset, but if you're looking for a pure "bottom line" standpoint, increasing the price of tickets this year by at least 50% was the way to go. So, if that's all they care about... why didn't they do it?

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Cliff wrote: »
    You guys are adorable. Just because a company maintains a caring, positive public image does not mean they actually care about anything but their bottom line.

    PA is not Verizon. If you honestly think they are completely apathetic about the experience their fans have, or at least outside their bottom line....man, I don't know what to tell you.

  • PeccaviPeccavi Registered User regular
    Cliff wrote: »
    You guys are adorable. Just because a company maintains a caring, positive public image does not mean they actually care about anything but their bottom line.

    If that's all they were interested in, they would be fleecing a shitload more money from PAX goers. The price on 3-day passes is extremely low. Which exacerbates the current problem.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Also, they can't necessarily just bump up ticket prices, even from a pure business standpoint, because eventually the price itself becomes negative PR. This is why concert promoters learned how to keep prices relatively low and instead sell them all to resellers through the backdoor, taking a cut of the proceeds.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    i, of course, planned a vacation for the time the tickets went on sale. Therefore I won't be going to the first PAX I was actually looking forward to in 3 years.

    The question is, should I use my job to get access to the convention because I missed out on tickets.

    mrt144 on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Absolutely.

  • tardcoretardcore Registered User regular
    I have a question maybe you guys can share your opinions on. Do you think that what happened this year will effect PAX East and PAX Prime (in terms of scalpers) next year? Do you think there will be an increase/decrease?

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    zerg rush wrote: »
    I'm confused, doesn't finance already have this problem solved? The solution is basically a dutch auction. You could either have it be a simultaneous offering or a progressively lowering auction.

    In a simultaneous offering, everyone puts in bids of how much they're willing to pay. So a rich person might put in a bid for 4 tickets at $300 each to make sure they get them, while a poor college student would bid $20 for a 3-day pass on the off chance they get lucky. Bidding goes on for a set time period, at which time all bids are finalized. PAX then lines up the bids by price, and sells tickets to the highest 60,000 people for their bid price.

    In a lowering auction, you start bidding at $1000 dollars (or some super high number), sell as many tickets as people are willing to buy, and let people know you have 60,000 tickets left. Then the next day, you drop the price to $900 and sell as many tickets as people are willing to buy and let people know how many tickets you have left. Then the next day, you drop it to $800 and sell... etc. As you get to lower values, you start stepping it down by $50 dollar increments, then $25 dollar increments and so on. 700, 600, 500, 400, 300, 250, 200, 175, 150, etc. Eventually the price will either reach the reserve limit (where they'd be losing money), or they will run out of tickets. In actuality, it tends to be that nobody bids until tickets look like they're going to be 'scarce' and then there's a mad dash to buy all at once, but that's the price you pay for trying to save money.

    There is also the variant that everyone who bids ends up paying the same amount as the point they run out of tickets. So, if you bid for $250, but they still have tickets until the $190 price point, you only pay $190; however if you bid $250 and they end up running out of tickets at $240, then you have to pay $240.

    However, with any of these setups, scalping becomes practically impossible, everyone gets tickets at the price that they're willing to pay, and PAX gets the maximum amount of money possible. Win-win-win. (Unless you're poor, in which case you should support a lottery)

    Both of these options work for me.

    If they wanted to maintain the "not for the money" aspect, they could just retain the usual price as the 'baseline' number, and any money over that amount gets contributed to Childs Play. Baseline for 3 days is $100 and someone pays $1000? Bam, $900 to Child's Play right there! Across potentially tens of thousands of tickets, even a couple of bucks could add up rapidly.

    It's not perfect; both still reward those with more disposable income the greatest chances of going, but as I strongly dislike the lottery, I'm not sure I see a way to distribute tickets that isn't going to run afoul of someone who can (pardon the expression) 'pay to win/go'.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Kasyn Registered User regular
    If they do nothing about scalping (which is, arguably, the correct course depending on who you ask about how many tickets are being bought by scalpers) then I'm sure scalping will increase next year.

    Demand will be higher, and tickets will be tougher to come by - scalpers will see that as more opportunity for higher profits. And when it comes down to it, scalpers will always be among the fastest people getting the most tickets. That's literally their job, and they will probably do it better than you.

    I think this year was probably the last one they could get away with not addressing scalping, if it is even important enough to them.

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I don't see this brought up, but it seems to me the obvious answer isn't to hold another con, or expand the con, but have satillites. When prime and East go off, have another con with its own exclusive panels going on the other side of the country. East already live streamed everything, they can extrapolate this to stream every panel back and forth. Mike and Jerry can split for each con being live at one or the other. This isnt telecasting prime to boston instead of having pax east, its having two cons a year on each coast that are linked.

    The strain/negative would then be on the developers/publishers to create double the showing. But it also creates a coverage system allowing more indie groups to appear locally with bigger coverage, while big wigs can be in both. If you told the big pub's they could get double the coverage of pax each year I bet they would fork over the money for the extra set's. Plus, it's EA and activision, fuck 'em.

    DiannaoChong on
    steam_sig.png
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    I'd totally do a dutch auction.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Tieing it into Child's Play with a Blind/Dutch Auction, or waves of tickets going at X dollars a week would probably be the "fairest" way to do it. You are letting the people that are willing to shell out an arm and a leg to go go, while using that demand not to pad your pockets, but to put a ton of money into a very worthwhile charity.

    I was marginally upset because I was busy at work and couldn't check my phone or computer for a day, and missed it. And I just moved to Seattle. :evil: But, with 60k+ tickets selling out in a few hours, and reported demand of 140k more, there is literally *nothing* you can do to meet that demand.

    About the only alternative is to pull a Blizzcon style deal with DirecTV, and/or Justin.TV and stream the whole con for X dollars. It's not the same sense of community, but I'd drop 20 bucks to have a stream for 3 days of some of the cooler panels, and on the ground interviews of people. It's not a solution to not having enough space, and you are definitely not going to get the sense of community, but it's an all right consolation prize.

  • tardcoretardcore Registered User regular
  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    I don't see this brought up, but it seems to me the obvious answer isn't to hold another con, or expand the con, but have satillites. When prime and East go off, have another con with its own exclusive panels going on the other side of the country. East already live streamed everything, they can extrapolate this to stream every panel back and forth. Mike and Jerry can split for each con being live at one or the other. This isnt telecasting prime to boston instead of having pax east, its having two cons a year on each coast that are linked.

    The strain/negative would then be on the developers/publishers to create double the showing. But it also creates a coverage system allowing more indie groups to appear locally with bigger coverage, while big wigs can be in both. If you told the big pub's they could get double the coverage of pax each year I bet they would fork over the money for the extra set's. Plus, it's EA and activision, fuck 'em.

    This is a nice idea. Instead of just streaming the con for those unable to go, they can livestream events for two cons at the same time. It'll make the whole thing bigger, but there's like 140k people who are still potential customers so why not?

    like
    About the only alternative is to pull a Blizzcon style deal with DirecTV, and/or Justin.TV and stream the whole con for X dollars. It's not the same sense of community, but I'd drop 20 bucks to have a stream for 3 days of some of the cooler panels, and on the ground interviews of people. It's not a solution to not having enough space, and you are definitely not going to get the sense of community, but it's an all right consolation prize.

    what if you could attend a con where you'd be able to see a live-stream of all those panels plus a bunch of exclusive ones (that will be live-streamed for the other con) plus just all the pax-stuff that isn't the panels (tournaments, free play, booths)?

  • BloodyMaryBloodyMary Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    First, in order to discourage the purchase of a three day pass that will only be used for two days, I would raise the price of a three day pass to fall somewhere between the price of purchasing two and three individual day passes. For example, a single day pass currently costs 35 dollars, whereas a three day pass costs 65. I would raise the cost of a three day pass to somewhere between 85 and 90 dollars, making it more economical to those who want to go all three days, but removes the incentive for those people who want to go only two days from buying a cheaper pass.

    Second, there absolutely needs to be greater notification of when tickets will go on sale. The Penny-Arcade store has my e-mail address, and I regularly get e-mails from them, so it should be relatively simple for the store to send me notifications of when tickets go on sale.
    I agree with the first part. Since I missed out on 3 days, I'm trying to decide if going two days or not is worth it, because it hurts to be paying the price for a 3 day for 2, so I might just go one...can't decide.

    And the second, since everyone has an email they can follow, but possibly not a twitter.

    BloodyMary on
  • WolfieeWolfiee Web/Graphic Designer and Illustrator MARegistered User regular
    The lottery idea is a horrible idea. Yeah, I would be pissed if I didn't get tickets because they sold out too fast, but not getting tickets because I have crappy luck would have me furious. At least with the way they have it now, I can try my hardest to be available, bumping up my chances.

    Lottery idea is not cool...

    0CsmwYt.jpg
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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    The main problem with PAX is that there are no presales for community members or other means that would encourage the right people to get tickets. It would be nice if there was at least some acknowledgement around the fact that many of the awesome people are community members on their own and other sites. If they did a limited presale of 30% of the tickets or something to community site members based on stringent criteria (IE, have the site admins that agree pull a user list a month prior to the presale and select based on postcount/activity rating), you'd get a lot more happy people. This is what you see all the big bands with a following doing (Radiohead, Phish etc.) to ensure a decent amount of the fanbase is able to go.
    This would also make it a lot harder for scalpers to get that early access. The only reason I see them not doing it is that it's more work, but they'll probably lose any sense of community if their criteria is only going to be "was on twitter and next to a computer when the tickets went on sale"

  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    A fair system is one that guarantees *I* can get tickets to events that I want to attend at a price I am willing to pay.

    Any system without that feature is multiple hitlers.

    Deebaser on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    The main problem with PAX is that there are no presales for community members or other means that would encourage the right people to get tickets. It would be nice if there was at least some acknowledgement around the fact that many of the awesome people are community members on their own and other sites. If they did a limited presale of 30% of the tickets or something to community site members based on stringent criteria (IE, have the site admins that agree pull a user list a month prior to the presale and select based on postcount/activity rating), you'd get a lot more happy people. This is what you see all the big bands with a following doing (Radiohead, Phish etc.) to ensure a decent amount of the fanbase is able to go.

    Yep, this is a very good way of doing it.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • JHunzJHunz Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    The main problem with PAX is that there are no presales for community members or other means that would encourage the right people to get tickets. It would be nice if there was at least some acknowledgement around the fact that many of the awesome people are community members on their own and other sites. If they did a limited presale of 30% of the tickets or something to community site members based on stringent criteria (IE, have the site admins that agree pull a user list a month prior to the presale and select based on postcount/activity rating), you'd get a lot more happy people. This is what you see all the big bands with a following doing (Radiohead, Phish etc.) to ensure a decent amount of the fanbase is able to go.

    Yep, this is a very good way of doing it.
    My impression of Gabe and Tycho's opinion of their forumers is that they think we're all frothing savages who are only a few steps from growing up to be Hitler. So if you're talking communities, there's the forums that they seem to hate, or there's all the people who view the main site (who they can't accommodate).

    bunny.gif Gamertag: JHunz. R.I.P. Mygamercard.net bunny.gif
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    JHunz wrote: »
    My impression of Gabe and Tycho's opinion of their forumers is that they think we're all frothing savages who are only a few steps from growing up to be Hitler. So if you're talking communities, there's the forums that they seem to hate, or there's all the people who view the main site (who they can't accommodate).

    Which is a very unfortunate way to view your fanbase, IMO.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    JHunz wrote: »
    My impression of Gabe and Tycho's opinion of their forumers is that they think we're all frothing savages who are only a few steps from growing up to be Hitler. So if you're talking communities, there's the forums that they seem to hate, or there's all the people who view the main site (who they can't accommodate).

    Which is a very unfortunate way to view your fanbase, IMO.

    It's probably cause they only read SE++ or G&T. :P

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    JHunz wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    The main problem with PAX is that there are no presales for community members or other means that would encourage the right people to get tickets. It would be nice if there was at least some acknowledgement around the fact that many of the awesome people are community members on their own and other sites. If they did a limited presale of 30% of the tickets or something to community site members based on stringent criteria (IE, have the site admins that agree pull a user list a month prior to the presale and select based on postcount/activity rating), you'd get a lot more happy people. This is what you see all the big bands with a following doing (Radiohead, Phish etc.) to ensure a decent amount of the fanbase is able to go.

    Yep, this is a very good way of doing it.
    My impression of Gabe and Tycho's opinion of their forumers is that they think we're all frothing savages who are only a few steps from growing up to be Hitler. So if you're talking communities, there's the forums that they seem to hate, or there's all the people who view the main site (who they can't accommodate).

    There's no reason that they couldn't accommodate them. Set up a Penny Arcade Registered Fan deal where you give them your email address and they send you links ahead of time to pre-register for PAX. Maybe with a couple of tiers of pre-reg opportunities stepped to length of registration time. If you signed up 5 years ago you get a shot at the first 30% of tickets six, eight months in advance. If you've been on the list for 3 years, you get what's left of those 30% a month later, etc. It doesn't take any kind of 'community activity' into account, but that's kind of a BS way to determine who gets to go to PAX anyway. I lurk a lot more than I post; do I deserve less of a shot at a ticket than a dude who posts "Shit yeah, brah" in SE++ chat threads every 15 minutes?

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    It'd also give you the option to put people in groups, or more specifically to register as a group of friends that would then enter the lottery to win tickets together.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Or rather, trust admins to administer the "inclusion" list for the presale ticket block. I doubt Tube would throw just-registered forum trolls to throw on an approved list, and any admin on a big site would likely have the same perspective. If they don't, they don't get to be part of the presale. If you're going to preach "PAX COMMUNITY!!1" then at least do more than lipservice to people who contribute to "gaming communities".

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    JHunz wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    The main problem with PAX is that there are no presales for community members or other means that would encourage the right people to get tickets. It would be nice if there was at least some acknowledgement around the fact that many of the awesome people are community members on their own and other sites. If they did a limited presale of 30% of the tickets or something to community site members based on stringent criteria (IE, have the site admins that agree pull a user list a month prior to the presale and select based on postcount/activity rating), you'd get a lot more happy people. This is what you see all the big bands with a following doing (Radiohead, Phish etc.) to ensure a decent amount of the fanbase is able to go.

    Yep, this is a very good way of doing it.
    My impression of Gabe and Tycho's opinion of their forumers is that they think we're all frothing savages who are only a few steps from growing up to be Hitler. So if you're talking communities, there's the forums that they seem to hate, or there's all the people who view the main site (who they can't accommodate).

    There's no reason that they couldn't accommodate them. Set up a Penny Arcade Registered Fan deal where you give them your email address and they send you links ahead of time to pre-register for PAX. Maybe with a couple of tiers of pre-reg opportunities stepped to length of registration time. If you signed up 5 years ago you get a shot at the first 30% of tickets six, eight months in advance. If you've been on the list for 3 years, you get what's left of those 30% a month later, etc. It doesn't take any kind of 'community activity' into account, but that's kind of a BS way to determine who gets to go to PAX anyway. I lurk a lot more than I post; do I deserve less of a shot at a ticket than a dude who posts "Shit yeah, brah" in SE++ chat threads every 15 minutes?

    It doesn't have to be forum-based, and I'm not really talking about PAX specifically, but any event where early sellout is likely.

    Pick a group of people close to the event organizers and divvy up presale tickets between them. Then those people divvy up presale tickets to people they consider to be community leaders. Then those community leaders divvy up presale tickets among whomever they want.

    Yes, this is blatantly playing favorites. It specifically benefits people who have few degrees of separation from the event organizers. But I'm actually fine with that. It means that you build up a core community and it keeps even large events feeling more intimate.

    People will bitch, but people will bitch anyway.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    I'd probably do a mix. 50 tickets to selected forumers (at most, I'm assuming several hundred tickets in total), 10-15% guaranteed tickets to the highest bidders (with some sort of system to accommodate groups and couples, but also screen out large-batch buys by ticket companies and scalpers), 15-20% being distributed to people who buy ultra-low-price lottery tickets, and the rest being sold at a price similar to current but posted on the site randomly so they can't get bought up by lurkers, ticket companies, or scalpers (every once in a while, on random intervals, ten to twenty tickets will just show up for sale on the site to be bought by whoever notices first). Deposits will be at least as expensive as the tickets to make sure only people who really want to come buy a ticket, and the spots for no-shows will be offered to lottery buyers who indicate that they'll be in the area even if they don't win.

    All ticket holders should also get the right to watch recordings of all events online in case they get on a panel line too far back or want to see two panels that are scheduled for the same time, with the ability to watch being extended to the general public roughly two months after the convention ends.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I think for a major event like this, where the purpose is more than just gross commercialism, a combination of strategies would be best.

    First, would be allowing users to register at a (small - $5-10 / annual) cost for pre-sale tickets. There should be a limit (say 2-4) to the number of tickets any one user can purchase, and maybe 20% of the tickets should be available to this group. This guarantees that the core 'fan club' has access to tickets, and by charging a cost to get on the list you prevent people from flooding the list just to scalp tickets.

    You would want to look at how many tickets you are selling this way, but if it's so popular you are selling more tickets than you've allocated divide users up by the length of their 'subscription'. Give them one point a month, one point per $10 donated to Child's Play, etc. The people with the highest number of points should get first dibs, and the lowest tier would go on a lotto. Make this the 'VIP Group' or something similar. Give them their own line and something to make them feel special.

    Next, take 10% of the tickets or so, and allow groups to pre-register for a modest fee. Make them submit a membership list and verify IDs. Give them their own line / entrance, so you don't turn entry into a clusterfuck for everyone.

    Take the remainder of the tickets and sell them normally. Announce when they go on sale, and limit the number of tickets any individual can purchase to a reasonable amount (say 4-6 tickets). Don't require any ID verification for these tickets.

    Take the remainder of the tickets and auction them off leading up to opening day.

    If you are worried about people buying 3 day tickets but not using all 3 days, make it so that a 3 day ticket costs at least as much as two individual tickets.

    It's a little complicated, but it's similar to how a lot of major universities sell sports tickets. It makes sure the boosters / longtime supporters have tickets, but allows students (similar to the 'group option' where a student ID is required) and the general public access to them too.

    Obviously adjust the number of tickets in each group to reflect the needs of PAX, and donate any extra money to Child's Play.

  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    IIRC someone asked G&T at one of the Q&As about priority ticket sales for the community and they explained why they didn't want to do them.

  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    I'm kind of surprised that people dislike lotteries and like the community priority dealy. I'd much rather have tickets be apportioned by chance than by a bunch of tools playing favorites. That sounds like a good way to make sure your con dies a slow death because it's always got the same core of people, and outsiders have a harder time coming.

    I'm also curious as to who people here would think are 'community leaders' or whatever, and why those people are more deserving.

    sig.gif
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Yeah, why would you want to make it harder for new people to get tickets to go to PAX?

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    I'm kind of surprised that people dislike lotteries and like the community priority dealy. I'd much rather have tickets be apportioned by chance than by a bunch of tools playing favorites. That sounds like a good way to make sure your con dies a slow death because it's always got the same core of people, and outsiders have a harder time coming.

    I'm also curious as to who people here would think are 'community leaders' or whatever, and why those people are more deserving.

    My main point is as follows:
    1. PAX is built on the gaming community
    2. The gaming community gathers on a number of websites, including PA.
    3. The more well-behaved of those websites could probably produce lists of members as candidates for a presale of a set amount of early tickets.

    You can say it's "playing favorites", but the reality is that if you want your fans to come to your stuff, you have to give them an advantage over the average schmoe. You go to basically any large band, and they presale to their fan club or community. Otherwise, you just end up with the people who can afford the scalpers or were watching when the twitter dropped.
    You also end up with a crowd more willing to tolerate non-transferable tickets.

  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    schuss wrote: »
    You can say it's "playing favorites", but the reality is that if you want your fans to come to your stuff, you have to give them an advantage over the average schmoe.

    What do you feel the benefit is to having your ideal of a "fan" in attendance as opposed to an "average schmoe"?

    Deebaser on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    I'm kind of surprised that people dislike lotteries and like the community priority dealy. I'd much rather have tickets be apportioned by chance than by a bunch of tools playing favorites. That sounds like a good way to make sure your con dies a slow death because it's always got the same core of people, and outsiders have a harder time coming.

    That's self-contradictory. If the event starts to die "a slow death," that means that fewer tickets are selling, which means there's less need for any allocation system, which means it becomes easier for newbies to get tickets.
    Deebaser wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    You can say it's "playing favorites", but the reality is that if you want your fans to come to your stuff, you have to give them an advantage over the average schmoe.

    What do you feel the benefit is to having your ideal of a "fan" in attendance as opposed to an "average schmoe"?

    It's not "as opposed to," it's "in addition to."

    And it depends on the kind of event you're running. You're running a concert where there's little to no interaction between attendees? Then just do first-come-first-serve.

    But if you're trying to hold on to any sort of shared culture within your event, then it is extremely beneficial to have a core group of people with a long history with that culture, and a network of people who know each other and can make introductions.

    Again, I'm not talking about PAX specifically, but over-capacity events in general.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Pure DinPure Din Boston-areaRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    But if you're trying to hold on to any sort of shared culture within your event, then it is extremely beneficial to have a core group of people with a long history with that culture, and a network of people who know each other and can make introductions.

    This is awkward to say but as someone who was a relatively well-informed PAX-newbie last year (I'm *very* shy both on the forums and in real life, but I went to the ladies meetup, and have gone to two of the Boston-area PAX meetups since), honestly I did not feel like the long history of a PAX culture really improved my PAX experience that much. It seems like the community better serves people who have already known each other for ages but not so much for new people to get introduced. I remember the first day pacing through the handheld lounge with my 3ds and everyone was already sitting in little groups and I was too terrified to ask anyone to play. :\ The next two days were much better but even then the people who I felt most comfortable introducing myself to and most of the people who introduced themselves to me were other newbies. So I would not agree that having a stronger core community necessarily makes for a better experience for people outside of that core.

    Besides, visiting PA forums every day already gives a huge advantage for getting PAX tickets. Because of reading the forums I already knew within a week or two window when the PAX-east tickets would go up, I knew that the official twitter account would be the best place to watch out for them, and I was able to get a text message alert to my (non-smart) phone as soon as it was announced on twitter because another forumer posted instructions on how to set that up.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    You can say it's "playing favorites", but the reality is that if you want your fans to come to your stuff, you have to give them an advantage over the average schmoe.

    What do you feel the benefit is to having your ideal of a "fan" in attendance as opposed to an "average schmoe"?

    Here's a question - what made PAX special? The people who are dedicated to dressing up/making events/organizing people to do cool things or just showing up and doing cool things. I don't think the public should be excluded, but you look at any successful event, band etc. - they understand the importance of giving the people who spend half their year planning around an event a leg up on the tickets. It doesn't even have to be forum based, and could be "golden tickets" passed out during the event to awesome cosplayers/volunteers/etc.
    Is it "fair"? No. Life isn't either, but if we want this not to turn into an E3 marketingpalooza, it's the only way it's going to happen.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    There's some sort of "real fan" one-upsmanship going on here.

    Anyone who is willing to buy a ticket and go to a convention about Penny Arcade is a fan. They may express their fandom by frequenting the forums, or maybe they just bought a poster and have it over their ping pong table. Either way, just because people hang out on the forums doesn't make us any more significant or important fans of the larger Penny Arcade brand. We're just bigger fans of the forums, which G&T have very specifically distanced themselves from.

    What is this I don't even.
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    That's a good question, what makes PAX special? People dress up and organize side events at every con. The pimply weeaboo wearing pink cat ears isn't more deserving of a ticket because he likes playing dress up. Active forumers aren't more deserving than people that follow the twitter feeds and pounce on the tickets as soon as they're announced.

    Hell, as far as Im concerned you are in the secret club if you're in-the-know/ care enough to follow the twitter. The only responsibility the organizers have to the fans is to ensure the passes don't end up on the secondary market, and there're people that'd debate that.

  • JHunzJHunz Registered User regular
    JHunz wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    The main problem with PAX is that there are no presales for community members or other means that would encourage the right people to get tickets. It would be nice if there was at least some acknowledgement around the fact that many of the awesome people are community members on their own and other sites. If they did a limited presale of 30% of the tickets or something to community site members based on stringent criteria (IE, have the site admins that agree pull a user list a month prior to the presale and select based on postcount/activity rating), you'd get a lot more happy people. This is what you see all the big bands with a following doing (Radiohead, Phish etc.) to ensure a decent amount of the fanbase is able to go.

    Yep, this is a very good way of doing it.
    My impression of Gabe and Tycho's opinion of their forumers is that they think we're all frothing savages who are only a few steps from growing up to be Hitler. So if you're talking communities, there's the forums that they seem to hate, or there's all the people who view the main site (who they can't accommodate).

    There's no reason that they couldn't accommodate them. Set up a Penny Arcade Registered Fan deal where you give them your email address and they send you links ahead of time to pre-register for PAX. Maybe with a couple of tiers of pre-reg opportunities stepped to length of registration time. If you signed up 5 years ago you get a shot at the first 30% of tickets six, eight months in advance. If you've been on the list for 3 years, you get what's left of those 30% a month later, etc. It doesn't take any kind of 'community activity' into account, but that's kind of a BS way to determine who gets to go to PAX anyway. I lurk a lot more than I post; do I deserve less of a shot at a ticket than a dude who posts "Shit yeah, brah" in SE++ chat threads every 15 minutes?
    I was more speaking to the fact that they can't accommodate all their fans because there are millions of them. If they could fit everyone who wanted to go into the convention space, there wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

    bunny.gif Gamertag: JHunz. R.I.P. Mygamercard.net bunny.gif
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