To be fair, WarmaHordes' approach to balance is, "everything is broken therefore it's balanced." GWs problem was more that they consistently overcost/undercost things, or just write plain bad rules (although their recent 40k work has been pretty spot on).
I'm just spitballing ideas here, but aren't heroes meant to be a bigger focus in this game? If so, I'm guessing that what you can take will be tied to that with rules like, "X amount of units must contain Y faction/'rule/If you take X no units can contain Y faction/rule." Basically, formations based on who is leading the warband, which could work without hard points costs.
I'm still saying day 1 for me.
I'll agree with the points being over/under, but I'm not sure I can agree with the recent 40k stuff being balanced in the slightest (SM drop pod formation being OP as fuck).
Maybe they can do a better job with a smaller game.
I don't really agree that Skyahmmer is OP as fuck. It's definitely strong, but certainly not an auto-win. The few competitive lists I've run it against have put up a really good fight.
To be fair, WarmaHordes' approach to balance is, "everything is broken therefore it's balanced." GWs problem was more that they consistently overcost/undercost things, or just write plain bad rules (although their recent 40k work has been pretty spot on).
I'm just spitballing ideas here, but aren't heroes meant to be a bigger focus in this game? If so, I'm guessing that what you can take will be tied to that with rules like, "X amount of units must contain Y faction/'rule/If you take X no units can contain Y faction/rule." Basically, formations based on who is leading the warband, which could work without hard points costs.
I'm still saying day 1 for me.
I hate, hate, hate the warmahordes approach to balance. Basically a contest to see who can bring the most broken combination of rules interactions to the table, and as a result of being so synergy focus good luck ever building an army for fluff or aesthetic reasons if you don't want to be immediately tabled.
I'm interested to see how this crack at fantasy plays out, and am definitely curious. Generally GW mucks up balance, but their games tend to not be very competitive, at least not how I play them, so I don't really mind (unlike warmahordes which is all competition all the time). But so far I am liking almost everything I am hearing. Small core rules, special rules for each model on their card so they aren't just differentiated by a statline. Somethings we don't have enough information to understand yet like no point values. There will certainly be some mechanism in place to ensure that the armies fighting are on a vaguely similar playing field, we just don't know what it is yet.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I get that the handful of people who are currently into WHFB are probably upset, but I'm super excited for AoS. I've tried to get into fantasy 3 times and have been driven away 3 times by the absolutely ridiculous number of models required to play a game.
Finances permitting, this will be a day 1 purchase for me. I may pre-order.
To quote Haile Selassie "It is us today. It will be you tomorrow."
Sounds awesome. Can't wait to see what they come up with next. I just hope it doesn't take another 30 years.
From Warseer basically confirming stuff. Still no real info on how this plays.
Got the below from the Oakland area rep, below the ellipse is a summation:
This is pre order week for the Age of Sigmar.. Newest Version of Warhammer!!!!.
Out with the Old and In with the New...
Get a new hobbyist into the game with 1 miniature.. (their favorite box set)..
That simple.. War scrolls come in the boxes. The Rules are only 4 pages long and they are available from the web.(downloadable).. No more heavy rulebooks and army books. All a person would need is their miniatures war scroll.. Now you can get into the hobby and play a game with your favorite miniature or miniatures. If you already have an army. Start Playing as early as July 4th, when the rules and war scrolls are posted. Play games as small or as big as you want. There are no points.. Bases don't mean anything, modular trays don't mean anything. Measure from the tip end of the model.. Base your guys any way you would like too.
The Age of Sigmar allows you to get some one started with a minimum of $10-40 after that they just purchase miniatures as they want to increase their experience and as the game brings in new characters and armies. There will be new enemies, old enemies, new friends and old friends coming back. You can play with your favorite miniatures, you don't have to be tied down to one particular army. You may like other Units in other armies, well that;s okay..
Also, I took inventory for what you had on old fantasy print materials. I will have instructions on that this week for you. Let's get it...
.....
Bases are no longer need or rather don't care as measurements are from model to model not base to base.
Movement trays are still availiable, but are optional to use.
No more points costs per model.
Flexible army from 1 vs 1 model to apoc size games.
4 page pdf. Lots of different scenerios. No army books.
Tons of new models. New armies. All armies are playable
Warscrolls think of warmachine Stat cards in the new box sets. Older boxesets will be downloadable on Saturday.
Next week announcements will be lore. Old armies etc
Army building isn't points it's based on units. We say okies build an army that includes 2 hqs. 2 troop choices 3 fast attacks. Each player then chooses their models based on that army building...I think
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited June 2015
Edit: Rumor mill is saying the box will go for $120
Free rules is a good start in GW wants people to start their new game but I really think that single faction starter boxes make more sense than their usual two faction starters.
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Free rules is a good start in GW wants people to start their new game but I really think that single faction starter boxes make more sense than their usual two faction starters.
Hopefully they roll out some single faction starters in time, but I see why they would want a two faction, literally everything you need in one box to play, box, from a marketing standpoint. I mean Warmachine has one too.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
Free rules is a good start in GW wants people to start their new game but I really think that single faction starter boxes make more sense than their usual two faction starters.
I have been saying this for years and it applies to 40k as well. If the base game is $120 then you should be able to buy each starter separately for $60 and every other faction should also get a $60 starter. That way you can do a 'DIY' 2 player starter set.
But $120 for close to fifty fucking models. Yes please.
A big thank you to Anthony from thesustainablecenter for the following information. Follow Ant @TSustainableC and on his youtube channel.
From my friend who I game with weekly that owns a store:
From GW. Just got off the call with them:
1. There will be no rule book. Ever.
2. All rules will be free. for ever.
3. All models will come with a “scroll” with its stats and rules.
4. All scrolls will be dowloadabel for free on their site starting July 2nd. I will get it all on the 2nd.
5. ALL current miniatures will be supported. they are producing scrolls for every single miniature they current sell.
6. The new boxed set comes with 18 good guys and a hero, 29 chaos and a hero, dice, ruler, 4 page booklet for rules, and 96 page fluff book that sets the background. $125.retail
7. There will be no new 9th edition. ever. this is the new game they will support.
8. They don’t think that’s a problem, as you will be able to use your armies and play it how ever you want. there are no complicated movement rules. Movement is very fluid.
9. they once again said they are a miniatures company, not a games company. but with that said, they want to produce miniatures and support them with a game that lets you use as many or all of your miniatures as you like. so if you want to play with a few fine, or a bunch fine too.
10. rules. it’s a turn base game. you roll off before the beginning of each turn.
there will be magic rules, maybe even cards, not yet.
there are some scenarios in the 96 page book, but the idea is to encourage creating and playing to as many diffrent scenarios as possible (like saga)
it’s still diced based.
bases are no longer important. since movement is so fluid. they chose round because models look cooler on them. you cana keep playing with squares and movement trays.
11. fluuf will be handled with the models as they come out. tons of new things for all factions to be released.
12. no limited edition stuff. but if models don’t sell they will migrate to direct sales on their website (special order) and iof people still don’t buy them, they will be not be supported, but instead will be discontinued once the stock is depleted.
13. Game seems to be fast, and furious.
14. there are no more “armies” persay. instead you build your forces based on the category at the bottom of each battle scroll, :Stormcast Eternal”, “Chaos” “Magical” Elves” Old ones, skaven/dark forces (or whateveer they’re called) etc.
15. the fluff is as rumored:
Old world totally gone. Sigmar saves a bunch of sould (presumably many) of all races.
He discover 8 realms. and populates them. then sets up way-gates to each, and shoots them via lightning bolts onto the worlds.
then they work to stave off chaos. i super simplified this here. sounds much cooler than i just explained.
16. they assured me it’s all about playing how we want, and them being able to sell new models to new people who want to get into a new game, but don’t want 175 models.
17. they fully understand that the scene will now have folks who play with lots of modles and people who play with a few.
18, they couldn’t tell me yet, but it seems the first to be supported will be Elves, Chaos, Humans. new elven stuff for sure.
19. all new scenery and 2×2 tiles for the battle boards.
20. as many of us have been saying for over a year now. it is a totally different game. no more warhammer fantasy. no 9th edition. rules are to be this 4 page pdf period. there will be no 185 page book in the future, or army books. they will have campaign books, fluff books, and so on, but the game has been set up to be about how the players want to play it within the age of sigmar rules environment (guidleines really).
Fantasy is now completely dead. and this new game wants to give us the flexibility to write our own version of the game.
seems fairly interesting if it pans out. Here they are taking a page directly from rules such as Black Powder. interesting actually when you realize that original warhammer fantasy and black powder were written by Rick Priestly. they went back to the master for this…at least in spirit.
The overall idea is:
SPEND MONEY ON MINIS, AND DON’T SPEND MONEY ON A BUNCH OF RULES
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I have a whole bunch of High Elves and I'm excited about this new Age of Sigmar. I don't feel like I'm losing anything as I'll still have all the rules/minis for standard WHFB but now there's going to be a whole new game that uses the minis I already have.
To be fair I've only played like 3 times as transporting all my minis and setup was a big hassle and my friend and I could only manage to arrange a game once every 3-4 months. We're definitely going to try out this age of Sigmar and not having to buy a new rulebook is a big bonus.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
'All rules for all models free online forever' sounds an amazing prospect. And also totally unlike what is starting to sound like the almost pay-to-win micro-transaction model that 40k seems to have going on with its data slates and extra formations and so on.
Note: I do not play 40k, just listen to people moaning about it, so might be entirely wrong here.
Guys. Guys. I know you want to be all optimistic and all but really? Four pages of rules written by GW? Admit it, it's going to be terrible. Normally their FAQs get FAQs that long.
Also, they already did mixed elves in Khaine and it was terribad. "Yep I guess this raving lunatic mass murderer, who for thousands of years presided over a society that thinks naming their sons Malus Darkblade is a good idea, is our Phoenix King now. Sure is ironic."
That said, I like the idea of no rulebooks and army books because in theory that allows GW to keep things balanced over time without having FAQs that people won't remember to look up each time. Hopefully GW does that instead of just using it as a way to sell their latest releases.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited June 2015
You seem pretty convinced that you're going to hate it, that's for sure.
Edit: Basically, all of frothing idiots shitting their pants in nerd rage have been doing it over minimal information. Now that we know some actual, solid information most of the concerns have been debunked. It's not a matter of square or circle bases, as those are no longer relevant. No armies are going to be made obsolete. We're not going to have to wait for rules. Rules are going to be free. That's all pretty amazing, even if the game turns out to be a flop.
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If it plays anything like LoTR I'll be shitting my pants for entirely different reasons. I wonder how hard it will be to adapt it to using 40k models. I'm hoping not very.
Photographs of the rules are already floating around on Twitter, although I'm not going to link to them since I'm not quite sure what their copyright status is. Everything looks very simplistic, as you might expect from something condensed down to four pages. Magic is literally "roll two dice, if the total is equal to or higher than the casting value of the spell you want to use then it succeeds" and there are only two base spells.
Going to have to wait until the warscrolls are released to get a real grasp of how the game works, I think, since it seems like a lot of the meatier mechanics are getting attached to them.
If it plays anything like LoTR I'll be shitting my pants for entirely different reasons. I wonder how hard it will be to adapt it to using 40k models. I'm hoping not very.
Are you looking for a more streamlined 40k? Because that's how some people are describing this.
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If it plays anything like LoTR I'll be shitting my pants for entirely different reasons. I wonder how hard it will be to adapt it to using 40k models. I'm hoping not very.
Are you looking for a more streamlined 40k? Because that's how some people are describing this.
Someone in my local group linked to this optimistic take. Some of you may enjoy and some of you might even believe it
Age of Sigmar: The sales pitch from GW
More and more details are leaking. Heres the latest from a GW rep talking to an independent retailer:
Ok so I just spoke with our GW guy for about a half an hour about Age of Sigmar. Here are the details:
+All the rules are free, core, unit specific, everything- The core rules are very simple but the complexity comes with each unit getting its own individual "Warscroll." The warscrolls will detail what each unit can do, its stats, etc. All the warscrolls and the core rules will be made available for free download starting on July 4th.
+The game can be played with all existing models in the warhammer fantasy range. There is no strict force organization chart. You could make an unbound army but there are benefits for taking units of the same faction. There is increased synergy and interplay between units of the same faction (Chaos, Elves, etc).
+ There is a lot more synergy in general in the game. The Khorne banner guy you see in the pictures has the ability to plant his banner in the ground and create a warp rift where every Khorne unit within 12 inches of the banner gets all sorts of nasty benefits.
+The starter box is 100 bucks after discount at TJs. It comes with 47 new models, 96 page Age of Sigmar Book, dice, measuring sticks etc. It comes with two armies Warriors of Khorne and a new army (Stormcast Eternals). He said the pictures floating around don't really do them justice and that they were the best quality plasics he has ever seen (he got the chance to construct, paint, and play with them last week). That sounds like a sweet week at work! smile emoticon
+The Stormcast Eternals are warriors of the warhammer world that Sigmar saved before the destruction of the mortal realm. They are then reincarnated as demigods keeping some of their previous personality. Every time they die, he resurrects them and they lose a bit of their individuality of their first life. This will explain how we will see heroes and villains that were important figures in the Warhammer World before hand. Apparently the guy riding the drake is one of the previous characters but his identify isn't revealed yet.
+There will be a bunch of new armies coming from the 9 realms of the game world. Some of the realms are familiar (Death, Beasts, Chaos, Heavens, etc). Each realm will have familiar armies coming from it, as well as new ones (like the Stormcast Eternals). I am guessing my beloved Greenskins are in the Beasts realm!
+The white dwarf next week comes with a new Stormcast Eternal Mini.
+The game while having skirmish elements is not just a skirmish game. Large scale battles are completely doable and actually will have a lot more interplay and intricacies due to the layers of synergy with the individual warscrolls for all the units.
+Bases don't matter. Measuring is done model to model (center mass I imagine). Bases are purely for aesthetics.
+He made a comparison to X-Wing where the core rules are simple and fun but the unit specific rules are where the game really comes to life.
+Premeasuring is still alive and well.
+There are fluffy faction specific rules that make armies play how you would imagine. He used an example of how Khorne units have the ability to take a death blow. When a khorne model dies they can get a last gasp strike as they fall.
+He said the game plays faster than WHFB, is simple at its core, but complex once you start throwing in all the unit specific rules. He said it would be much easier for new players to get into the hobby and the themed armies have really cool things up their sleeves.
All in all I am really excited. Putting all the rules out there for free, making any regiment box in effect a starter box, and keeping large scale battles relevant are smart moves. I cannot wait. We will be having some Age of Sigmar stuff going on in the run up to the Launch Party. More details to follow! Everyone will be able to start playing AoS on the fourth of july without spending a penny.
I'm a sucker for a good sales pitch, but this is getting exciting. I am looking forward to the new edition. A lot of people are talking it down as a skirmish game, but I am not really reading that out of all the rumours. I still think we will be seeing a 100-200 model count armies at tournaments. There appears to be the potential for more depth than 8th edition.
It will also match the rapid launch pattern GW uses now, without having to stock outdated rule books.
A slightly more pessimistic view from a poster on Dakkadakka;
OK,....this sucks so hard....I'm having trouble typing, hands shaking....
Just spent an hour and a half on the phone with GW, them trying in vain to make me understand how I can play the game, let alone how i could make someone want to buy it.
It has no points, no system to balance armies, nothing whatsoever tells the two players what they can put on the table.
Just play with what you want to play with.
I'm having trouble with the idea of two 12 year olds opening up figure cases and playing a game....let alone running a league, or a tournament.
I argued and asked for any reason they didn't have a points system. They just kept telling me it doesn't have one, doesn't need one, the game has things that give the player with least models an advantage, or why one dragon gets killed by a unit. It was like talking with people that don't play the game. Have never played the game. Only played the scenarios in AoS.
With the vast difference in profile between models in Warhammer, it's absurd to think you can balance by model count.
And you can't balance by Warscroll, this is just multiple models which can have hugely different numbers and stats.
And you can't balance by wounds. Chaos Warrior = 1 goblin? Nagash = 10 goblins?
In fact, Nagash or a large dragon or blood thirster is aways optimal. Warscrolls =1, Model count =1, Wounds < 10.
Because of the huge difference in power of the playing pieces, nothing makes sense unless you balance by a number that reflects the value of the individual piece in the game.
AoS is essentially Unbound armies where you bring what you want. You aren't even restricted by faction, you just might have models that don't gain a bonus others might from an icon or leader.
I've actually been in tears today over what they did to WFB. I have no idea how I will sell this game in my shop other than an expensive boardgame.
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This one only caught my eye because he'd been incredibly supportive of the release until somebody asked him "Hey, have you heard anything about the no points rumour?". He hadn't and decided to call his GW rep back, which led to the post I quoted above.
Army selection is basically the only worry I have left about AoS' rules, and although my gut instinct is that individual warscrolls will be balanced against each other somehow I thought the post was worth noting.
Yeah. I was just going to bring that up because an employee at my flgs basically confirmed it for me. Seemed a bit crazy and that post is obviously overwrought so I didn't really believe it.
I want to say that this is hilarious laziness on GW's part but thinking about it, if AoS really is a game about synergies and the interplay of an almost infinite set special rules and remembering how well balanced unit buffing magic items are in 8th, then maybe it's just a case of GW being realistic about their abilities.
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I'm just going to have a hard time taking anyone seriously who has their "hands shaking" over a rules edition for a game with tiny plastic toy soldiers.
He describes himself as a shop owner. Someone telling me that a portion of my income was going to be based on selling a product I didn't think I could sell would have my hands shaking too.
He describes himself as a shop owner. Someone telling me that a portion of my income was going to be based on selling a product I didn't think I could sell would have my hands shaking too.
Apparently Warhammer Fantasy has accounted for less than 10% of GW sales as of late so...
If he can't figure out how to make it profitable, just don't carry it. Like my FLGS and historical mini wargames.
Personally I think the new edition sounds intriguing, though I'll probably hold off till they release a new army/models for a faction I think is more interesting like Skaven or Lizardmen.
Army selection is basically the only worry I have left about AoS' rules, and although my gut instinct is that individual warscrolls will be balanced against each other somehowI thought the post was worth noting.
For that to work there will have to be be no units that are more powerful than 1 warscroll worth of goblins or skaven slaves also no units less powerful than Nagash or an elflord on a dragon.
Will goblin heroes be as powerful as vampires?
You could make a game with a concept of "every box of minis is balanced against every other box" and maybe that would be a brilliant marketing plan. I somehow doubt you can combine that rule with "also every box of miniatures produced for WHFB is valid in this game".
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He describes himself as a shop owner. Someone telling me that a portion of my income was going to be based on selling a product I didn't think I could sell would have my hands shaking too.
Apparently Warhammer Fantasy has accounted for less than 10% of GW sales as of late so...
If he can't figure out how to make it profitable, just don't carry it. Like my FLGS and historical mini wargames.
Personally I think the new edition sounds intriguing, though I'll probably hold off till they release a new army/models for a faction I think is more interesting like Skaven or Lizardmen.
But it's not hard to imagine that one particular store has a good group going and makes some money on Fantasy. He might also have a wall full of Fantasy minis that he now doubts he can move.
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
If memory serves, in order to carry GW, they force you to carry certain items. Like you can't just stock 40k you must also stock Fantasy / Hobbit. Though I'm certainly not sure this is currently or ever was actually true.
I've actually been in tears today over what they did to WFB.
Excuse me I have to go pick up my eyes. They've rolled right out of my head.
I believe there are "mandatory minimum" orders although I don't know the ratios or if it's still true...it was when I chatted up the Columbia GW store owner about it.
I like the notion of what I'm reading so far, the only red flag is no points costs...it seems like a way to sucker kids into arms races of who can buy the biggest army. That seems like a backwards way to go, since it's one of the first concerns young people (or parents) express and we've always been able to dispel it pretty easily.
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I refuse to believe there's 0 balancing mechanic at play. Points aren't the only way to do that.
It could very easily be 'okay we're playing with 1 hero and 2 squads of mooks'.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited June 2015
These rumours sound amazing. Free rules and unit rules? Old armies entirely supported? Colour me intrigued.
Since there's no points and units are selected via amount of units than a points system, I'd assume the balance would come from units being entirely fixed. So a unit of Skeleton Warriors might be 50 models, and a unit of Goblins 40 models, and a unit of Chaos Warriors 10 models. That way when you say '3 core units', the Chaos guy might have 2 units of 10 Warriors and a unit of 20 Marauders and the Undead guy a unit of 50 Skeletons and 2 units of 20 Ghouls or something, and those units are fixed and balanced against each other.
Fixed units like that would be much easier to balance than completely variable unit sizes and upgrades.
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I don't really agree that Skyahmmer is OP as fuck. It's definitely strong, but certainly not an auto-win. The few competitive lists I've run it against have put up a really good fight.
I hate, hate, hate the warmahordes approach to balance. Basically a contest to see who can bring the most broken combination of rules interactions to the table, and as a result of being so synergy focus good luck ever building an army for fluff or aesthetic reasons if you don't want to be immediately tabled.
I'm interested to see how this crack at fantasy plays out, and am definitely curious. Generally GW mucks up balance, but their games tend to not be very competitive, at least not how I play them, so I don't really mind (unlike warmahordes which is all competition all the time). But so far I am liking almost everything I am hearing. Small core rules, special rules for each model on their card so they aren't just differentiated by a statline. Somethings we don't have enough information to understand yet like no point values. There will certainly be some mechanism in place to ensure that the armies fighting are on a vaguely similar playing field, we just don't know what it is yet.
Sounds awesome. Can't wait to see what they come up with next. I just hope it doesn't take another 30 years.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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Edit: Rumor mill is saying the box will go for $120
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Hopefully they roll out some single faction starters in time, but I see why they would want a two faction, literally everything you need in one box to play, box, from a marketing standpoint. I mean Warmachine has one too.
I have been saying this for years and it applies to 40k as well. If the base game is $120 then you should be able to buy each starter separately for $60 and every other faction should also get a $60 starter. That way you can do a 'DIY' 2 player starter set.
But $120 for close to fifty fucking models. Yes please.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
And there was a time that over two bucks per plastic mini was considered high. And even now $120 will buy more than 50 models in a Reaper Kickstarter.
Granted the models in the AoS box seem both large and high quality.
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This wording still screams "We're making 40k models compatible" but I have a hard time believing that.
Though I also would have had a hard time believing "No more rule book, the rules are only four pages long and completely free", so.
To be fair I've only played like 3 times as transporting all my minis and setup was a big hassle and my friend and I could only manage to arrange a game once every 3-4 months. We're definitely going to try out this age of Sigmar and not having to buy a new rulebook is a big bonus.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Note: I do not play 40k, just listen to people moaning about it, so might be entirely wrong here.
Also, they already did mixed elves in Khaine and it was terribad. "Yep I guess this raving lunatic mass murderer, who for thousands of years presided over a society that thinks naming their sons Malus Darkblade is a good idea, is our Phoenix King now. Sure is ironic."
That said, I like the idea of no rulebooks and army books because in theory that allows GW to keep things balanced over time without having FAQs that people won't remember to look up each time. Hopefully GW does that instead of just using it as a way to sell their latest releases.
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Edit: Basically, all of frothing idiots shitting their pants in nerd rage have been doing it over minimal information. Now that we know some actual, solid information most of the concerns have been debunked. It's not a matter of square or circle bases, as those are no longer relevant. No armies are going to be made obsolete. We're not going to have to wait for rules. Rules are going to be free. That's all pretty amazing, even if the game turns out to be a flop.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Going to have to wait until the warscrolls are released to get a real grasp of how the game works, I think, since it seems like a lot of the meatier mechanics are getting attached to them.
Are you looking for a more streamlined 40k? Because that's how some people are describing this.
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Very much so, yes.
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Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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Maybe Sea Guard will finally be good!
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Orc Bowmen. As if.
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Link
That's an interesting best case scenario but, again, it's so unlike the GW we know that I'm not sure that GW could pull this off.
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Surely you jest.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
This one only caught my eye because he'd been incredibly supportive of the release until somebody asked him "Hey, have you heard anything about the no points rumour?". He hadn't and decided to call his GW rep back, which led to the post I quoted above.
Army selection is basically the only worry I have left about AoS' rules, and although my gut instinct is that individual warscrolls will be balanced against each other somehow I thought the post was worth noting.
I want to say that this is hilarious laziness on GW's part but thinking about it, if AoS really is a game about synergies and the interplay of an almost infinite set special rules and remembering how well balanced unit buffing magic items are in 8th, then maybe it's just a case of GW being realistic about their abilities.
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Apparently Warhammer Fantasy has accounted for less than 10% of GW sales as of late so...
If he can't figure out how to make it profitable, just don't carry it. Like my FLGS and historical mini wargames.
Personally I think the new edition sounds intriguing, though I'll probably hold off till they release a new army/models for a faction I think is more interesting like Skaven or Lizardmen.
For that to work there will have to be be no units that are more powerful than 1 warscroll worth of goblins or skaven slaves also no units less powerful than Nagash or an elflord on a dragon.
Will goblin heroes be as powerful as vampires?
You could make a game with a concept of "every box of minis is balanced against every other box" and maybe that would be a brilliant marketing plan. I somehow doubt you can combine that rule with "also every box of miniatures produced for WHFB is valid in this game".
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But it's not hard to imagine that one particular store has a good group going and makes some money on Fantasy. He might also have a wall full of Fantasy minis that he now doubts he can move.
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Excuse me I have to go pick up my eyes. They've rolled right out of my head.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
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I like the notion of what I'm reading so far, the only red flag is no points costs...it seems like a way to sucker kids into arms races of who can buy the biggest army. That seems like a backwards way to go, since it's one of the first concerns young people (or parents) express and we've always been able to dispel it pretty easily.
It could very easily be 'okay we're playing with 1 hero and 2 squads of mooks'.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Since there's no points and units are selected via amount of units than a points system, I'd assume the balance would come from units being entirely fixed. So a unit of Skeleton Warriors might be 50 models, and a unit of Goblins 40 models, and a unit of Chaos Warriors 10 models. That way when you say '3 core units', the Chaos guy might have 2 units of 10 Warriors and a unit of 20 Marauders and the Undead guy a unit of 50 Skeletons and 2 units of 20 Ghouls or something, and those units are fixed and balanced against each other.
Fixed units like that would be much easier to balance than completely variable unit sizes and upgrades.