Technically, Aang did debend a guy who was as of that moment a convicted criminal sentenced to life in prison. Not sure if that makes it better, but it makes it different from what Amon has done.
They're also different in that one took place during the day and the other at night. But neither of these differences are really relevant.
It's very relevant. Yakone was sentenced, yet had JUST proved that standard methods of imprisonment wouldn't be possible, thus the sentence impossible to carry out. In both cases Aang has taken someones bending away, the act itself wasn't the punishment. Criminals are often kept in bonds that are most appropriate to their capabilities.
Technically, Aang did debend a guy who was as of that moment a convicted criminal sentenced to life in prison. Not sure if that makes it better, but it makes it different from what Amon has done.
They're also different in that one took place during the day and the other at night. But neither of these differences are really relevant.
It's very relevant. Yakone was sentenced, yet had JUST proved that standard methods of imprisonment wouldn't be possible, thus the sentence impossible to carry out. In both cases Aang has taken someones bending away, the act itself wasn't the punishment. Criminals are often kept in bonds that are most appropriate to their capabilities.
And Amon was more capable of achieving this than the Avatar?
I mean, if someone just keeps escaping committing crimes and the law refuses or is unable to do anything about it what does Aang do? Cut off their hands? Cripple them?
Clearly this is a road we mustn't tread down. Aang must be stopped.
Lin Beifang, and indeed Republic City, says you're wrong.
Yeah, Fire Lord Ozai also tried to keep the Avatar imprisoned. Didn't work out so well for him.
Worked out well enough for Beifang. Sozin did pretty well killing him off too. But that ignores the point: The Avatar is not free to ignore the rules because they're the Avatar. They get to either because a society allows it or they force their way. Not always successfully.
Lin Beifang, and indeed Republic City, says you're wrong.
Yeah, Fire Lord Ozai also tried to keep the Avatar imprisoned. Didn't work out so well for him.
Unless the Avatar chooses to stay imprisoned. Given enough cause to redeem themselves it's possible for the Avatar to abide by the sentence from a legitimate authority.
More to the point, Yakkon was in the process of killing the Avatar during a violent flight from custody. We have no reason to believe that Amon knew Tarlokk was a fugitive.
More to the point, Yakkon was in the process of killing the Avatar during a violent flight from custody. We have no reason to believe that Amon knew Tarlokk was a fugitive.
He probably figured out that something was up around when all his chi blockers started getting blood bent.
More to the point, Yakkon was in the process of killing the Avatar during a violent flight from custody. We have no reason to believe that Amon knew Tarlokk was a fugitive.
I thought Amon was there because Tarlokk framed the Equalists. Liar liar, pants on fire, etc.
More to the point, Yakkon was in the process of killing the Avatar during a violent flight from custody. We have no reason to believe that Amon knew Tarlokk was a fugitive.
He knew he'd kidnapped the Avatar. And, as was mentioned, probably knew something was up when Tarrlok started blood bending people, in particular he was in the process of trying to take out Amon. So... no?
More to the point, Yakkon was in the process of killing the Avatar during a violent flight from custody. We have no reason to believe that Amon knew Tarlokk was a fugitive.
I thought Amon was there because Tarlokk framed the Equalists. Liar liar, pants on fire, etc.
This was my impression as well. Amon showed up after the rest of Team Avatar busted into the underground to find Korra, and after Tarlok had been exposed as a liar and a fugitive.
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
If the only things Amon had done up until now had been debending Zolt and Tarrlok he'd be a goddamn hero. It's doing it to innocent benders and fucking police officers that's really objectionable.
If the only things Amon had done up until now had been debending Zolt and Tarrlok he'd be a goddamn hero. It's doing it to innocent benders and fucking police officers that's really objectionable.
The police officers clashing with an oppressive regime. Remember how we felt about the police during the Green Revolution a couple years back.
If the only things Amon had done up until now had been debending Zolt and Tarrlok he'd be a goddamn hero. It's doing it to innocent benders and fucking police officers that's really objectionable.
I agree to a point. Except people were bemoaning his taking bending from Zolt, equating what he did to crippling a person. And people are now trying to say what he did with Tarrlok is somehow different than what Aang did to Yakone. Essentially people are trying to make the show a matter of black and white, which is a shame.
And yes, let's not forget those poor police. The ones who attacked Equalist chi blocking schools before it was even illegal and the second Lin was gone had no compunction attacking and arresting nonbenders demanding fairness. I am sure plenty of them are perfectly nice people who don't deserve what happened to them, but given a revolution is taking place the Equalists don't really have the option of picking out the good from the bad.
There is a slight difference, in that bloodbending is basically body horror. Generally I would view it in a similar light to nerve stapling, only temporary. Technically spirit bending IS nerve stapling, and should be reserved only for the most horrific offenders.
There is a slight difference, in that bloodbending is basically body horror. Generally I would view it in a similar light to nerve stapling, only temporary. Technically spirit bending IS nerve stapling, and should be reserved only for the most horrific offenders.
I like what Quid says. But I worry that Amon, like many revolutionaries reacting to actual oppression in their societies, might not have thought through the long-term planning or consequences of his revolution.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Yep! Say bye bye to cheap electricity and construction, weak ass normals.
Seriously though, non-benders rely plenty on bending, probably without realizing it.
I like what Quid says. But I worry that Amon, like many revolutionaries reacting to actual oppression in their societies, might not have thought through the long-term planning or consequences of his revolution.
Eh, in a lot of those case there was an intentional campaign by the colonial powers to tear the newly independent nations apart, the Congo being among the worst the worst examples (Belgium funded the creation of at least one separatist movement that's still going and abducted the president). In other cases, the infrastructure was built to rely on regular shipment from the colonizing power to ensure a market and ensure continued dependance.
If the only things Amon had done up until now had been debending Zolt and Tarrlok he'd be a goddamn hero. It's doing it to innocent benders and fucking police officers that's really objectionable.
It was never going to stop with Tarrlok & Zolt. Amon needed to rely on debending criminals to sell the idea then slowly ramp up his objections until he got to the "all benders are bad" stage.
If the only things Amon had done up until now had been debending Zolt and Tarrlok he'd be a goddamn hero. It's doing it to innocent benders and fucking police officers that's really objectionable.
I agree to a point. Except people were bemoaning his taking bending from Zolt, equating what he did to crippling a person. And people are now trying to say what he did with Tarrlok is somehow different than what Aang did to Yakone. Essentially people are trying to make the show a matter of black and white, which is a shame.
And yes, let's not forget those poor police. The ones who attacked Equalist chi blocking schools before it was even illegal and the second Lin was gone had no compunction attacking and arresting nonbenders demanding fairness. I am sure plenty of them are perfectly nice people who don't deserve what happened to them, but given a revolution is taking place the Equalists don't really have the option of picking out the good from the bad.
Eh, in a lot of those case there was an intentional campaign by the colonial powers to tear the newly independent nations apart, the Congo being among the worst the worst examples (Belgium funded the creation of at least one separatist movement that's still going and abducted the president). In other cases, the infrastructure was built to rely on regular shipment from the colonizing power to ensure a market and ensure continued dependance.
Er ... I was thinking more of Lenin. And, perhaps more contemporary, Occupy Wall Street.
If the only things Amon had done up until now had been debending Zolt and Tarrlok he'd be a goddamn hero. It's doing it to innocent benders and fucking police officers that's really objectionable.
I agree to a point. Except people were bemoaning his taking bending from Zolt, equating what he did to crippling a person. And people are now trying to say what he did with Tarrlok is somehow different than what Aang did to Yakone. Essentially people are trying to make the show a matter of black and white, which is a shame.
And yes, let's not forget those poor police. The ones who attacked Equalist chi blocking schools before it was even illegal and the second Lin was gone had no compunction attacking and arresting nonbenders demanding fairness. I am sure plenty of them are perfectly nice people who don't deserve what happened to them, but given a revolution is taking place the Equalists don't really have the option of picking out the good from the bad.
The difference to most people lies with intent. Spirit bending is definitely something that's morally ambiguous in every instance, but what is required for Aang to take someones bending away? We know of two people that both provided a clear and present danger to everyone and proved themselves unable to be constrained by any conventional means. Debending or death. What's required for Amon to take someones bending away? Be a bender.
If your movement doesn't allow you to differentiate between actual wrongdoers and people who've done nothing wrong, you might want to rethink the position of your movement.
Eh, in a lot of those case there was an intentional campaign by the colonial powers to tear the newly independent nations apart, the Congo being among the worst the worst examples (Belgium funded the creation of at least one separatist movement that's still going and abducted the president). In other cases, the infrastructure was built to rely on regular shipment from the colonizing power to ensure a market and ensure continued dependance.
Er ... I was thinking more of Lenin. And, perhaps more contemporary, Occupy Wall Street.
I guess I was thinking more about Cuba. The Batistas went Galt in the worst possible way.
I like what Quid says. But I worry that Amon, like many revolutionaries reacting to actual oppression in their societies, might not have thought through the long-term planning or consequences of his revolution.
Oh I have no doubt Amon's an evil dick at worst and horribly, horribly misguided at best. I just take issue with people trying to rationalize something the good guy does as right but wrong when anyone else does it.
The difference to most people lies with intent. Spirit bending is definitely something that's morally ambiguous in every instance, but what is required for Aang to take someones bending away? We know of two people that both provided a clear and present danger to everyone and proved themselves unable to be constrained by any conventional means. Debending or death. What's required for Amon to take someones bending away? Be a bender.
If your movement doesn't allow you to differentiate between actual wrongdoers and people who've done nothing wrong, you might want to rethink the position of your movement.
I agree he goes too far. But people, yourself included, are literally trying to make it out as if somehow their situations are different with their respective blood benders. They aren't. Amon didn't do anything Aang wouldn't have done in that case as was clearly demonstrated for us.
I agree he goes too far. But people, yourself included, are literally trying to make it out as if somehow their situations are different with their respective blood benders. They aren't. Amon didn't do anything Aang wouldn't have done in that case as was clearly demonstrated for us.
Aang acted against a known criminal who was found guilty by the established government and only debended Yakon as a last resort since he almost died in their fight. Debending is Amon's first & only resort and his actions aren't agreed with by the government.
His task force is composed of police. They're wearing the same metal uniforms with badges.
The group existed outside of the police force, though. They answered to Tarrlok, not Bei Fong.
Harry Dresden on
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I agree he goes too far. But people, yourself included, are literally trying to make it out as if somehow their situations are different with their respective blood benders. They aren't. Amon didn't do anything Aang wouldn't have done in that case as was clearly demonstrated for us.
Aang acted against a known criminal who was found guilty by the established government and only debended Yakon as a last resort since he almost died in their fight. Debending is Amon's first & only resort and his actions aren't agreed with by the government.
Yakone being found guilty doesn't make Aang's act any less of a vigilante than Amon's. Aang decided the punishment and so did Amon. They both decided the punishment outside of the law. Something that upset people a great deal after The Revelation.
His task force is composed of police. They're wearing the same metal uniforms with badges.
The group existed outside of the police force, though. They answered to Tarrlok, not Bei Fong.
They answered to Tarrlok because they were put on his task force. Reassigning them doesn't make them not police.
His task force is composed of police. They're wearing the same metal uniforms with badges.
The group existed outside of the police force, though. They answered to Tarrlok, not Bei Fong.
They answered to Tarrlok because they were put on his task force. Reassigning them doesn't make them not police.
the task force that korra was part of were not police officers that i recall, i think were getting the different "task forces" confused. There's the original water bending/korra TF and the post-beifong-stepdown TF.
Also, i completely agree with Quid. I'm not sure how anyone can say Aang had the law on his side, all he had was his duty to keep the balance. In the current show, you could put that Amon is trying to keep the balance as well, until he gets what he wants and stops ALL benders.
Insert appropriate name into sentence: (Aang/Amon) stopped a powerhungry bloodbender from doing terrible things.
In any case, Aang certainly did not have the law on his side for much of anything he did in TLA. He was in open rebellion against the Fire Nation and its rightful colonial holdings. He was also quite treasonous towards the government of the Earth Kingdom.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
In any case, Aang certainly did not have the law on his side for much of anything he did in TLA. He was in open rebellion against the Fire Nation and its rightful colonial holdings. He was also quite treasonous towards the government of the Earth Kingdom.
He was not a subject of the Earth Kingdom, so it wasn't treason so much as it was espionage et al.
History is written by the victors and all that, though TLA was definitely portrayed as a just cause.
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It's very relevant. Yakone was sentenced, yet had JUST proved that standard methods of imprisonment wouldn't be possible, thus the sentence impossible to carry out. In both cases Aang has taken someones bending away, the act itself wasn't the punishment. Criminals are often kept in bonds that are most appropriate to their capabilities.
And Amon was more capable of achieving this than the Avatar?
Clearly this is a road we mustn't tread down. Aang must be stopped.
The Avatar is their link to the spirit world. They are not a perfect being who gets do whatever they want.
Yeah, Fire Lord Ozai also tried to keep the Avatar imprisoned. Didn't work out so well for him.
Worked out well enough for Beifang. Sozin did pretty well killing him off too. But that ignores the point: The Avatar is not free to ignore the rules because they're the Avatar. They get to either because a society allows it or they force their way. Not always successfully.
Unless the Avatar chooses to stay imprisoned. Given enough cause to redeem themselves it's possible for the Avatar to abide by the sentence from a legitimate authority.
Outside of using guns killing is the most out of character action Batman could take.
There is one exception to both. Shooting Darksied.
I meant the original Bob Kane throwing criminals off roofs Batman. That said, you're correct concerning the current Batman.
You said that "Batman* killing people isn't entirely out of character for him.
This is out of character. Since that point the character has been better defined and Batman doesn't kill.
Those early stories are simply out of character.
*Presumably the nebulous generic batman in which all version and iterations must be considered.
He probably figured out that something was up around when all his chi blockers started getting blood bent.
I thought Amon was there because Tarlokk framed the Equalists. Liar liar, pants on fire, etc.
He knew he'd kidnapped the Avatar. And, as was mentioned, probably knew something was up when Tarrlok started blood bending people, in particular he was in the process of trying to take out Amon. So... no?
This was my impression as well. Amon showed up after the rest of Team Avatar busted into the underground to find Korra, and after Tarlok had been exposed as a liar and a fugitive.
The police officers clashing with an oppressive regime. Remember how we felt about the police during the Green Revolution a couple years back.
I agree to a point. Except people were bemoaning his taking bending from Zolt, equating what he did to crippling a person. And people are now trying to say what he did with Tarrlok is somehow different than what Aang did to Yakone. Essentially people are trying to make the show a matter of black and white, which is a shame.
And yes, let's not forget those poor police. The ones who attacked Equalist chi blocking schools before it was even illegal and the second Lin was gone had no compunction attacking and arresting nonbenders demanding fairness. I am sure plenty of them are perfectly nice people who don't deserve what happened to them, but given a revolution is taking place the Equalists don't really have the option of picking out the good from the bad.
No, it technically is not.
Seriously though, non-benders rely plenty on bending, probably without realizing it.
That's why Lex Luthor hates Superman so much.
But don't tell Amon, I don't want my bending taken away.
I believe Quid might be an informant of his...
Eh, in a lot of those case there was an intentional campaign by the colonial powers to tear the newly independent nations apart, the Congo being among the worst the worst examples (Belgium funded the creation of at least one separatist movement that's still going and abducted the president). In other cases, the infrastructure was built to rely on regular shipment from the colonizing power to ensure a market and ensure continued dependance.
You're right, I concede.
It was never going to stop with Tarrlok & Zolt. Amon needed to rely on debending criminals to sell the idea then slowly ramp up his objections until he got to the "all benders are bad" stage.
That was Tarrlok's task force, not the police.
The difference to most people lies with intent. Spirit bending is definitely something that's morally ambiguous in every instance, but what is required for Aang to take someones bending away? We know of two people that both provided a clear and present danger to everyone and proved themselves unable to be constrained by any conventional means. Debending or death. What's required for Amon to take someones bending away? Be a bender.
If your movement doesn't allow you to differentiate between actual wrongdoers and people who've done nothing wrong, you might want to rethink the position of your movement.
I guess I was thinking more about Cuba. The Batistas went Galt in the worst possible way.
Oh I have no doubt Amon's an evil dick at worst and horribly, horribly misguided at best. I just take issue with people trying to rationalize something the good guy does as right but wrong when anyone else does it.
I agree he goes too far. But people, yourself included, are literally trying to make it out as if somehow their situations are different with their respective blood benders. They aren't. Amon didn't do anything Aang wouldn't have done in that case as was clearly demonstrated for us.
His task force is composed of police. They're wearing the same metal uniforms with badges.
So I guess we're officially in endgame for this season? No more side trips, just final conflict resolution.
The group existed outside of the police force, though. They answered to Tarrlok, not Bei Fong.
We have 3 episodes left though!
Also the finale is called Endgame, officially the best season finale episode title possible.
No lies, I did not know the episode was entitled "Endgame" before you said so. I just like calling finales of this sort "endgame."
They answered to Tarrlok because they were put on his task force. Reassigning them doesn't make them not police.
the task force that korra was part of were not police officers that i recall, i think were getting the different "task forces" confused. There's the original water bending/korra TF and the post-beifong-stepdown TF.
Also, i completely agree with Quid. I'm not sure how anyone can say Aang had the law on his side, all he had was his duty to keep the balance. In the current show, you could put that Amon is trying to keep the balance as well, until he gets what he wants and stops ALL benders.
Insert appropriate name into sentence: (Aang/Amon) stopped a powerhungry bloodbender from doing terrible things.
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He was not a subject of the Earth Kingdom, so it wasn't treason so much as it was espionage et al.
History is written by the victors and all that, though TLA was definitely portrayed as a just cause.