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Diablo III: Thread over, much like windup wizard

18788909293104

Posts

  • Alex WilderAlex Wilder Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    While I think a lot of these changes are nice and necessary, none of these changes make me want to start playing again. The changes to legendaries and class skills will have to be pretty big to revitalize the player base if this is all they are changing.

    From the profiles I've seen linked here and SE++ not too many of us have cleared Inferno, and we're probably some of the more dedicated players out there. The lower co-op hp and weaker champ packs will encourage those people to get back in.

    For those of us who have already seen behind the curtain they will need a bit more, but even this is enough to encourage me to just hop on and left click some stuff til it explodes.

    I don't think that the co-op hp and champs packs is why people stopped playing. Personally I stopped trying to advance in Act 3 just because I didn't see much of a point. I had been lvl 60 since hell and I find that farming is just more efficient in Act 1. I think they need to add a further leveling component and have that component reset like the D2 ladder.

    Time is a flat circle
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    Anyway, as for 1.0.4, I approve of the announced changes so far. More favorable HP scaling in multi-games, yes! Buffing damage on those big, expensive spenders. Making 2H weapons better and letting more ilvl 61-62 items roll with good damage. Toning down those Shielding guys, yes! Hate them so hard. Invulnerable minions, I'm not super sad to see them go but they were alright. And it's not too far away, coming in August. Fine by me.

    The enrage timers have always been a non-issue to me but I guess their removal will make some people happy.

    The most interesting change is reverting the MF averaging. It sounded like a fantastic idea on paper for handling people in pubs that don't contribute damage or tanking to the party and just collect loot. But I think I may agree that it's more important to encourage playing together at all and remove the threat of people dragging down your MF. I just hope they fix the vote kick functionality as well.

    I am waiting on pins and needles to see if CM/WW gets hit with the nerf bat. It probably should, but I'm still hoping it's not.

    I guess the MF swap changes are going to be discussed in a different post. I am very excite!

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • ShenShen Go placidly amid the noise and haste Registered User regular
    I wonder if they'll do that with legendaries; like, make them BiS, but have them decay and once it's gone it's gone. I think it'd be a pretty interesting change.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398
    mcdermott
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    Scosglen wrote: »
    Apparently the price of brimstone has doubled since the 1.04 preview was uploaded?

    I guess people had not realized until now that crafted legendaries would be getting the buffs as well. That's why I've held off selling any brimstone that I've salvaged.

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    I think ive hit an enrage timer once. In my 100+ hours in inferno just once. Now the removal of the heal to full is sexah. The other changes just mean ill clear it faster than my current pace but oh well.

    steam_sig.png
  • TTODewbackTTODewback Queen of the Cosmos Product of BCleric's ImaginationRegistered User regular
    Oh god, Im going to have to TP and sell so much more often after the patch. I already have to do it 3 or 4 times per butcher run on my monk.

    [temp sig until i have time for awesome sig]
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Every single one of those changes are amazing.

    I am excite.

  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I think they need to add a further leveling component and have that component reset like the D2 ladder.

    Character progression that's not tied to gear and that's accellerated the deeper into the game you're playing. It doesn't have to be drastic, tiny stat bumps or little gameplay perks, some sort of alternate advancement. Just detach it from gear, and it gives people a whole other reason to keep playing, and a way to feel at least some measure of character improvement on the days that all they farm is vendor trash and AH fuel.

    Cog on
  • HooverFanHooverFan Registered User regular
    I bet J is off in a corner masturbating furiously after reading all that

    Diablo 3 BNet profile: HooverFish#1668
    PSN: HooverFanPA
    Steam: HooverFan
    Beyond Normal
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    Children, the patch changes are out! http://d3db.com/news/id/296-patch-104-system-changes-by-wyatt-cheng/

    Huh.
    We’re increasing the health of normal monsters by approximately 5%-10% in Inferno, but also increasing the likelihood they drop magic or rare items by a factor of four. We’re correspondingly lowering the health of Champions and Rares by 10-25% and editing specific affixes to shrink the difficulty gap

    We’re adjusting some of the more frustrating monster affixes, such as Fire Chains and Shielding...We’re getting rid of the Invulnerable Minions monster affix.

    The raw damage value on all level 61 and 62 weapons will be able to roll damage that extends all the way to the top end of level 63...we’re improving two-handed melee weapons by creating a new set of stronger affixes to compensate for the loss of stats that can come from your offhand.

    We’re removing Enrage Timers and the “heal back to full” behavior from Champion and Rare monster packs.

    Good fucking show.
    Finally! I'm honestly not sure which I hate more between Shielding and IM, but I'm glad to hear that at least one of them is going away, and the other is getting nerfed.

    Also, lol D3 nerfed2casual time!

    Towers of Doom
    Events in which three Altars spawn at once will now only occur twice per game, during the first and fifth Altar events.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Shen wrote: »
    Children, the patch changes are out! http://d3db.com/news/id/296-patch-104-system-changes-by-wyatt-cheng/

    Huh.
    We’re increasing the health of normal monsters by approximately 5%-10% in Inferno, but also increasing the likelihood they drop magic or rare items by a factor of four. We’re correspondingly lowering the health of Champions and Rares by 10-25% and editing specific affixes to shrink the difficulty gap

    We’re adjusting some of the more frustrating monster affixes, such as Fire Chains and Shielding...We’re getting rid of the Invulnerable Minions monster affix.

    The raw damage value on all level 61 and 62 weapons will be able to roll damage that extends all the way to the top end of level 63...we’re improving two-handed melee weapons by creating a new set of stronger affixes to compensate for the loss of stats that can come from your offhand.

    We’re removing Enrage Timers and the “heal back to full” behavior from Champion and Rare monster packs.

    Good fucking show.
    Finally! I'm honestly not sure which I hate more between Shielding and IM, but I'm glad to hear that at least one of them is going away, and the other is getting nerfed.

    Also, lol D3 nerfed2casual time!

    Shielding by far was the most annoying. At least with IM I could laugh them off with my Barb or kite and explode with my DM. With shielding it is like playing a game of wack a mole over and over and over.

    steam_sig.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Based on other posts here, it sounds like there is more about the patch posted than what Shen quoted? Can someone spoilerpaste the whole article?

    Towers of Doom
    Events in which three Altars spawn at once will now only occur twice per game, during the first and fifth Altar events.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Based on other posts here, it sounds like there is more about the patch posted than what Shen quoted? Can someone spoilerpaste the whole article?
    Well, we’re getting closer to 1.0.4, and while it’s still a few weeks away we’re going to start hitting you fast and furious with blogs aimed at explaining the upcoming changes. To kick things off I wanted to provide an overview of some of the larger systems changes and game improvements.

    Let’s get started!

    So Happy Together

    While many people are playing co-op, it’s still a minority of games. Ideally we would like players who want to play solo to be able to solo, and players who want to play co-op to play co-op. At the moment though playing solo is the clear choice, even for those who would prefer co-op with some of their friends.

    The change we made back in 1.0.3 to remove the bonus monster damage per additional player was a great start, but we can clearly go a bit further. The first change we’re making in 1.0.4 for co-op is to remove averaging in multiplayer games of Magic Find and Gold Find. You’ll benefit from your full Magic Find stat, independent of other players in the game. We originally added Magic Find averaging so optimal play did not involve people stacking what we call “adventure stats” to the detriment of their party. While this may re-emerge as a problem, we think the current solution feels like too much of a penalty, and is doing more harm than good.

    Along the same lines as the change in 1.0.3, we’re going to be lowering the health multiplier for monsters per additional player in co-op games. It’s going to be a flat 75% in 1.0.4 for all difficulty levels, as opposed to the scaling 75/85/95/110% it is now. This makes enemies far more manageable in co-op games, and rewards a co-ordinated group with a higher farming efficiency than playing alone.

    Shrinking the Gap

    We know there are a lot of you out there that are really frustrated by the difficulty of some of the champion and rare packs, so in 1.0.4 we’re going to shrink the gap between normal monsters and Elite packs (Champions and Rares). The design intent of Champion and Rare packs is to provide a spike of challenge, but in general we feel like the gap is too big. Normal monsters die quickly and are usually just fodder, and Champions and Rares can feel like a brick wall. In general we’re looking to bring normal enemies up a smidge, and Champions and Rares down.

    So, in 1.0.4 we’re increasing the health of normal monsters by approximately 5%-10% in Inferno, but also increasing the likelihood they drop magic or rare items by a factor of four. We’re correspondingly lowering the health of Champions and Rares by 10-25% and editing specific affixes to shrink the difficulty gap. We’re still working on those numbers, but that’s approximately what we’re shooting for.

    To further reduce the gap between normal and Elite monsters, we’re adjusting some of the more frustrating monster affixes, such as Fire Chains and Shielding.* Of course there are some normal monsters that are massive spikes in difficulty too, and we’ll be making polish adjustments to a few of those as well, like reducing the damage of two-handed skeletons like Skull Cleavers.

    Weapons Master

    One of the general improvements we’d like to make to our item game addresses the difference between an item having a chance of being good vs. knowing the item isn’t going to be good before you even identify it. In other words, there’s a world of difference between an item having no chance of being good, and some chance of being good. It’s not something we’re going to be able to fully address in 1.0.4, but giving every dropped item a chance to be good is a long-term goal. One area we felt we could make immediate improvements for 1.0.4 was with weapons.

    Weapon damage is the most important stat on a weapon. It can be disheartening to get a lot of weapon drops and you know before even looking at them that they have no chance of being good. To help give weapons a fighting chance, the raw damage value on all level 61 and 62 weapons will be able to roll damage that extends all the way to the top end of level 63.

    We also want to close the gap between dual-wielding and two-handers, and so we’re improving two-handed melee weapons by creating a new set of stronger affixes to compensate for the loss of stats that can come from your offhand.

    On the topic of two-handers, we’re also changing how damage is calculated on a few damage-over-time skills. Many skills have text like “Deals 75% weapon damage for 5 seconds”, which isn’t exactly clear as it can be interpreted a few different ways. It also made skill evaluation difficult, particularly for skills with long durations or cooldowns. We’re switching a lot of these skills to read “X% weapon damage over 5 seconds”. Many skills already follow this format, and understanding what the skill does is very clear. As the skills are converted there is an additional opportunity: when converting to this format, choosing a value for X depends on your weapon speed. So what we’ve done in most cases is assumed a high attack speed (at least 2.0 attacks per second), chosen a value of X, and then in many cases bumped the value even higher. A skill that currently does 75% weapon damage for 5 seconds, with a 2.0 speed weapon, will convert to at least 750% weapon damage over 5 seconds. The skill becomes easier to understand, is a small buff for most one-hand builds, and a big buff for two-hand builds.


    Efficiency vs. Challenge

    Rather than focus on whether or not you can beat an enemy, many players would rather figure out how fast they can beat them. We’re removing Enrage Timers and the “heal back to full” behavior from Champion and Rare monster packs. We don’t think they fit well into the general philosophy of the game, which is more about trying to farm as efficiently as possible. You’re already incentivized to kill things quickly, if a pack happens to take you a long time it can just feel unfair to have the pack enrage, kill you, and then heal back to full. The original intent behind Enrage Timers was to have a few encounters that served as a “DPS check” that also add tension and excitement. Due to the randomness of Champion and Rare monsters, combined with a general philosophy of efficient farming, this was simply the wrong approach for us to take. The Enrage Timers feel more appropriate on bosses, where the setup, predictability and mechanics of the fight add the required context for the time limit.

    We can’t get away from the Efficiency vs Challenge discussion without talking about death penalties. When we increased repair costs in 1.0.3 it was to make death meaningful. Efficiency is not only about how fast you kill things, but what efforts you’re putting into doing so. Dying should cut into efficiency, and that creates a meaningful challenge to stay alive in not only how you play, but the importance of how you’re designing your character. That said, we think repair costs are just a bit too high, so in 1.0.4 we’re going to be reducing repair costs of high-end items by 25%.

    Legendarier

    We have improvements coming to Legendary items, and it seems like an important enough subject to give them their own blog. Stay tuned as Senior Game Designer Andrew Chambers gives the rundown in the next week or two. As a general reminder though, existing items are not changing. The Legendary improvements are going to be for Legendaries dropped or crafted after the 1.0.4 patch goes live.




    Stay Classy

    We’re making a metric-ton of changes to classes, so we’re going to have separate blog posts for each. But in general we’re looking at unpopular skills and asking ourselves a few questions:

    Does the skill have any control or readability issues that would make the skill less satisfying to use? If so – polish the skill more. A good example here is the Barbarian Rend ability – many people don’t use it because you can’t always tell which enemies are affected by the bleed and which aren’t.
    Does the skill fill a similar role as an extremely popular skill? If so, buff the skill to be competitive with the popular skill. For example, Bola Shot could be a solid skill, but simply doesn’t have the raw damage when compared to Hungering Arrow, so we’re buffing Bola Shot to be competitive.
    Does a skill have a dominant rune? If so, can we buff the underused runes to be more competitive? A good example here is the Wizard Hydra skill. The Venom Hydra is by far the most popular rune, and for good reason, so we are buffing the other runes to make them more competitive with Venom Hydra.
    Is the skill a resource spender? In general we have found that many resource spenders just don’t do enough for their resource cost. Here I would use the example of Wave of Light, which is a fairly significant expenditure of Spirit that doesn’t always seem worthwhile. Many damage-oriented resource spenders are receiving buffs in 1.0.4
    Would buffing the skill increase or decrease build diversity? Some skills when buffed cause other skills to become obsolete, so there’s a net decrease in build diversity - we’re more careful with those. Other skills, when buffed, add to the total pool of appealing skills, which increases build diversity. The most obvious example here is the Witch Doctor Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan, which are both receiving significant improvements in 1.0.4.



    We hope you have fun, and stay tuned for each of the specific class articles in the next couple weeks.

    The Outro

    These are really just a few of the topline systems changes we’ll be making in 1.0.4, and we hope you’re looking forward to them as much as we are. We’ll of course have a lot more info coming at you in the weeks ahead on Legendary items, classes and more, as well as some interviews we’ll be holding shortly before the patch goes live – which, by the way, is currently targeted for the fourth week of August.

    See you in-game!

    *P.S. We’re getting rid of the Invulnerable Minions monster affix.

    Wyatt Cheng is Senior Technical Game Designer on Diablo III, and as a member of Blizzard’s Beef Jerky Club is ordering jalapeno, habenero & ghost chili jerky this month.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Love the list of changes Blizz posted.

    I'm mostly excited to see the class changes though. Looking forward to those blogs.

    (The only thing I don't like is that existing legendaries won't change...that's kind of frown town, especially for anyone who spend 10's of millions on something like a Storm Shield...though if you want a Storm Shield, the prices will probably plummet in the next 48 hours on speculation, so enjoy!)

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    I have read the applicable paragraph 5 or 6 times and still spectacularly fail to understand how weapon speed interacts with % weapon damage over time effects, or what the hell they're getting at there.

  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    I'm really quite surprised they haven't discussed their end-game content changes/additions. They've already clearly stated they want to add more content and change things up that way, but they didn't even give that topic a passing mention in their blog. Sad day. :(

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • ShenShen Go placidly amid the noise and haste Registered User regular
    I'm really quite surprised they haven't discussed their end-game content changes/additions. They've already clearly stated they want to add more content and change things up that way, but they didn't even give that topic a passing mention in their blog. Sad day. :(

    This is meant to be the first of four posts detailing changes, I believe.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    You won't see any new content until 1.1, the PvP patch. They are trying to get the game systems where they want them before they start piling content on top. I wouldn't hold your breath on that.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Thank god no more invulnerable minions. I'll say it again, it always felt like I was fighting the game, not the monsters.

    And getting rid of the enrage timer will be a boon to public coop. That's where I always ran into them, because some dickbag wouldn't be pulling his weight (either shit dps or just plain afk).

    Just need to fix vote kick now.

    I'm a little leery of the MF change, to be honest. The averaging bit that is. I predict that in public games we're going to see a lot of dps freeloading now, as people try to stack MF and depend on others to get kills. I'm honestly trying to figure out how you'd address this, without penalized coop play.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Tenek wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Based on other posts here, it sounds like there is more about the patch posted than what Shen quoted? Can someone spoilerpaste the whole article?
    Well, we’re getting closer to 1.0.4, and while it’s still a few weeks away we’re going to start hitting you fast and furious with blogs aimed at explaining the upcoming changes. To kick things off I wanted to provide an overview of some of the larger systems changes and game improvements.

    Let’s get started!

    So Happy Together

    While many people are playing co-op, it’s still a minority of games. Ideally we would like players who want to play solo to be able to solo, and players who want to play co-op to play co-op. At the moment though playing solo is the clear choice, even for those who would prefer co-op with some of their friends.

    The change we made back in 1.0.3 to remove the bonus monster damage per additional player was a great start, but we can clearly go a bit further. The first change we’re making in 1.0.4 for co-op is to remove averaging in multiplayer games of Magic Find and Gold Find. You’ll benefit from your full Magic Find stat, independent of other players in the game. We originally added Magic Find averaging so optimal play did not involve people stacking what we call “adventure stats” to the detriment of their party. While this may re-emerge as a problem, we think the current solution feels like too much of a penalty, and is doing more harm than good.

    Along the same lines as the change in 1.0.3, we’re going to be lowering the health multiplier for monsters per additional player in co-op games. It’s going to be a flat 75% in 1.0.4 for all difficulty levels, as opposed to the scaling 75/85/95/110% it is now. This makes enemies far more manageable in co-op games, and rewards a co-ordinated group with a higher farming efficiency than playing alone.

    Shrinking the Gap

    We know there are a lot of you out there that are really frustrated by the difficulty of some of the champion and rare packs, so in 1.0.4 we’re going to shrink the gap between normal monsters and Elite packs (Champions and Rares). The design intent of Champion and Rare packs is to provide a spike of challenge, but in general we feel like the gap is too big. Normal monsters die quickly and are usually just fodder, and Champions and Rares can feel like a brick wall. In general we’re looking to bring normal enemies up a smidge, and Champions and Rares down.

    So, in 1.0.4 we’re increasing the health of normal monsters by approximately 5%-10% in Inferno, but also increasing the likelihood they drop magic or rare items by a factor of four. We’re correspondingly lowering the health of Champions and Rares by 10-25% and editing specific affixes to shrink the difficulty gap. We’re still working on those numbers, but that’s approximately what we’re shooting for.

    To further reduce the gap between normal and Elite monsters, we’re adjusting some of the more frustrating monster affixes, such as Fire Chains and Shielding.* Of course there are some normal monsters that are massive spikes in difficulty too, and we’ll be making polish adjustments to a few of those as well, like reducing the damage of two-handed skeletons like Skull Cleavers.

    Weapons Master

    One of the general improvements we’d like to make to our item game addresses the difference between an item having a chance of being good vs. knowing the item isn’t going to be good before you even identify it. In other words, there’s a world of difference between an item having no chance of being good, and some chance of being good. It’s not something we’re going to be able to fully address in 1.0.4, but giving every dropped item a chance to be good is a long-term goal. One area we felt we could make immediate improvements for 1.0.4 was with weapons.

    Weapon damage is the most important stat on a weapon. It can be disheartening to get a lot of weapon drops and you know before even looking at them that they have no chance of being good. To help give weapons a fighting chance, the raw damage value on all level 61 and 62 weapons will be able to roll damage that extends all the way to the top end of level 63.

    We also want to close the gap between dual-wielding and two-handers, and so we’re improving two-handed melee weapons by creating a new set of stronger affixes to compensate for the loss of stats that can come from your offhand.

    On the topic of two-handers, we’re also changing how damage is calculated on a few damage-over-time skills. Many skills have text like “Deals 75% weapon damage for 5 seconds”, which isn’t exactly clear as it can be interpreted a few different ways. It also made skill evaluation difficult, particularly for skills with long durations or cooldowns. We’re switching a lot of these skills to read “X% weapon damage over 5 seconds”. Many skills already follow this format, and understanding what the skill does is very clear. As the skills are converted there is an additional opportunity: when converting to this format, choosing a value for X depends on your weapon speed. So what we’ve done in most cases is assumed a high attack speed (at least 2.0 attacks per second), chosen a value of X, and then in many cases bumped the value even higher. A skill that currently does 75% weapon damage for 5 seconds, with a 2.0 speed weapon, will convert to at least 750% weapon damage over 5 seconds. The skill becomes easier to understand, is a small buff for most one-hand builds, and a big buff for two-hand builds.


    Efficiency vs. Challenge

    Rather than focus on whether or not you can beat an enemy, many players would rather figure out how fast they can beat them. We’re removing Enrage Timers and the “heal back to full” behavior from Champion and Rare monster packs. We don’t think they fit well into the general philosophy of the game, which is more about trying to farm as efficiently as possible. You’re already incentivized to kill things quickly, if a pack happens to take you a long time it can just feel unfair to have the pack enrage, kill you, and then heal back to full. The original intent behind Enrage Timers was to have a few encounters that served as a “DPS check” that also add tension and excitement. Due to the randomness of Champion and Rare monsters, combined with a general philosophy of efficient farming, this was simply the wrong approach for us to take. The Enrage Timers feel more appropriate on bosses, where the setup, predictability and mechanics of the fight add the required context for the time limit.

    We can’t get away from the Efficiency vs Challenge discussion without talking about death penalties. When we increased repair costs in 1.0.3 it was to make death meaningful. Efficiency is not only about how fast you kill things, but what efforts you’re putting into doing so. Dying should cut into efficiency, and that creates a meaningful challenge to stay alive in not only how you play, but the importance of how you’re designing your character. That said, we think repair costs are just a bit too high, so in 1.0.4 we’re going to be reducing repair costs of high-end items by 25%.

    Legendarier

    We have improvements coming to Legendary items, and it seems like an important enough subject to give them their own blog. Stay tuned as Senior Game Designer Andrew Chambers gives the rundown in the next week or two. As a general reminder though, existing items are not changing. The Legendary improvements are going to be for Legendaries dropped or crafted after the 1.0.4 patch goes live.




    Stay Classy

    We’re making a metric-ton of changes to classes, so we’re going to have separate blog posts for each. But in general we’re looking at unpopular skills and asking ourselves a few questions:

    Does the skill have any control or readability issues that would make the skill less satisfying to use? If so – polish the skill more. A good example here is the Barbarian Rend ability – many people don’t use it because you can’t always tell which enemies are affected by the bleed and which aren’t.
    Does the skill fill a similar role as an extremely popular skill? If so, buff the skill to be competitive with the popular skill. For example, Bola Shot could be a solid skill, but simply doesn’t have the raw damage when compared to Hungering Arrow, so we’re buffing Bola Shot to be competitive.
    Does a skill have a dominant rune? If so, can we buff the underused runes to be more competitive? A good example here is the Wizard Hydra skill. The Venom Hydra is by far the most popular rune, and for good reason, so we are buffing the other runes to make them more competitive with Venom Hydra.
    Is the skill a resource spender? In general we have found that many resource spenders just don’t do enough for their resource cost. Here I would use the example of Wave of Light, which is a fairly significant expenditure of Spirit that doesn’t always seem worthwhile. Many damage-oriented resource spenders are receiving buffs in 1.0.4
    Would buffing the skill increase or decrease build diversity? Some skills when buffed cause other skills to become obsolete, so there’s a net decrease in build diversity - we’re more careful with those. Other skills, when buffed, add to the total pool of appealing skills, which increases build diversity. The most obvious example here is the Witch Doctor Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan, which are both receiving significant improvements in 1.0.4.



    We hope you have fun, and stay tuned for each of the specific class articles in the next couple weeks.

    The Outro

    These are really just a few of the topline systems changes we’ll be making in 1.0.4, and we hope you’re looking forward to them as much as we are. We’ll of course have a lot more info coming at you in the weeks ahead on Legendary items, classes and more, as well as some interviews we’ll be holding shortly before the patch goes live – which, by the way, is currently targeted for the fourth week of August.

    See you in-game!

    *P.S. We’re getting rid of the Invulnerable Minions monster affix.

    Wyatt Cheng is Senior Technical Game Designer on Diablo III, and as a member of Blizzard’s Beef Jerky Club is ordering jalapeno, habenero & ghost chili jerky this month.
    Thanks! Good changes overall, but I'm now strongly considering buying a full set of high MF/GF survival gear for (presumably) cheap. Just stuff with no offensive stats whatsoever, but a lot of MF/GF, vit, resist, and/or armor. I should be able to join public games and just "tank" (i.e., hit things and do no damage but make myself look like I'm helping) and be showered with gold and rares. The main thing to decide is if I'd rather do this on my Barb or my Monk. I'll probably wait until the MF change blog before I fully commit to gearing up for it, though.

    Rather than focus on whether or not you can beat an enemy, many players would rather figure out how fast they can beat them. We’re removing Enrage Timers and the “heal back to full” behavior from Champion and Rare monster packs. We don’t think they fit well into the general philosophy of the game, which is more about trying to farm as efficiently as possible. You’re already incentivized to kill things quickly, if a pack happens to take you a long time it can just feel unfair to have the pack enrage, kill you, and then heal back to full. The original intent behind Enrage Timers was to have a few encounters that served as a “DPS check” that also add tension and excitement. Due to the randomness of Champion and Rare monsters, combined with a general philosophy of efficient farming, this was simply the wrong approach for us to take. The Enrage Timers feel more appropriate on bosses, where the setup, predictability and mechanics of the fight add the required context for the time limit.
    Ahhh, that cozy feeling when Blizzard realizes the same thing you did many months ago (enrage timers). Feels /smug man.


    Finally, the big issue now is that I feel even less compelled than ever to log into the game for the next 3 weeks. I feel like there's just nothing I can do now that wouldn't be a lot less frustrating or more more enjoyable after the patch.

    Towers of Doom
    Events in which three Altars spawn at once will now only occur twice per game, during the first and fifth Altar events.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    These are all good changes, and it seems that they’re finally listening to player feedback instead of telling us how to play the game. They’ve still got a long way to go towards making me a believer again, but this seems to imply that they’re on the right track.

    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Love the list of changes Blizz posted.

    I'm mostly excited to see the class changes though. Looking forward to those blogs.

    (The only thing I don't like is that existing legendaries won't change...that's kind of frown town, especially for anyone who spend 10's of millions on something like a Storm Shield...though if you want a Storm Shield, the prices will probably plummet in the next 48 hours on speculation, so enjoy!)

    not all legendaries are changing. legendary 62 armor generally does not need a buff

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I'm a little leery of the MF change, to be honest. The averaging bit that is. I predict that in public games we're going to see a lot of dps freeloading now, as people try to stack MF and depend on others to get kills. I'm honestly trying to figure out how you'd address this, without penalized coop play.
    Probably the easiest "fix" would be to average those stats in public games but not in private games. That way someone with high MF can still have his 0 MF friend join and not feel like he's being punished.

    Towers of Doom
    Events in which three Altars spawn at once will now only occur twice per game, during the first and fifth Altar events.
    YES! I AM INVINCIBLE!
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    mcdermott wrote: »
    I'm a little leery of the MF change, to be honest. The averaging bit that is. I predict that in public games we're going to see a lot of dps freeloading now, as people try to stack MF and depend on others to get kills. I'm honestly trying to figure out how you'd address this, without penalized coop play.

    With the lower coop hp multiplier, lower elite hps in general, no enrage timer, and no monster healing, I see it as being a non-issue. Unless you just plain find yourself in a group with 4 people stacking absolutely nothing but GF/MF.

    We still also haven't seen the MF change blog, there might be something in there that addresses this alltogether.

    Cog on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I don't really see how averaged mf was penalized play

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Jars wrote: »
    I don't really see how averaged mf was penalized play

    It was a penalty for people with good MF gear to join a co-op game. And I don't mean a freeloader, I just mean someone who has good gear with a high MF score. They would join a co-op game and lose a ton of MF a lot of the time, as it averaged out.

    It discouraged people from doing group loot runs, especially people with optimized farming gear.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Jars wrote: »
    I don't really see how averaged mf was penalized play

    Because your loot was your own. If you rolled 200% MF and someone with 0% joined, you suddenly have 100% MF with no subsequent boost to your DPS. Your MF could be cut in half, or more with more players, with no benefit to you since the person benefitting from the lost half got his exclusive loot with your borrowed MF.

    Other players have no impetus to share anything gained from how they benefit from your MF, and the game has no way to compensate you for the fact that you're giving away stats to strangers, getting worse loot, and getting nothing back.

    True it's not a "penalty" as such, that may be over-dramatizing the situation somewhat, it's more of a self imposed handicap, but it's avoidable so people take their ball and go home.

    Cog on
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    Yeah I have more damage and more MF than most of my friends. When I played with them in Inferno it felt like a kick in the nads because my drops were worse and I was killing slower. Removing the MF averaging means there's one less way that someone badly geared can drag you down.

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    and the person with 0% mf just got a 100% mf boost

    it all balances out

    and it very much does add in another ways since now you can join with 400% mf and 10k dps and reap all the benefits.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    You'll start killing at a reasonable speed with your friends too, since the HP bonus is going way down in Inferno.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    I will start playing this game again when the patch comes out. This is great news.

    Steam = VishnuOwnz
    Dota2 = Glitchmo
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Jars wrote: »
    and the person with 0% mf just got a 100% mf boost

    it all balances out

    Unless it's a public game and you don't know the person. Ok, you're 100% MF boosting someone you dont know in a way that will most likely never ever benefit you, at a detriment to yourself. It's awful neighborly of you but it's still giving up something to get nothing. Or you could play by yourself and keep all 200%. Which is what people do.

    Cog on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    so now instead of sharing your mf you share your dps. this isn't a beneficial change, it's more of the same.

    if you don't want to then you can't play public games no matter the system.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    and the person with 0% mf just got a 100% mf boost

    it all balances out

    Unless it's a public game and you don't know the person. Ok, you're 100% MF boosting someone you dont know in a way that will most likely never ever benefit you, at a detriment to yourself. It's awful neighborly of you but it's still giving up something to get nothing. Or you could play by yourself and keep all 200%. Which is what people do.

    Exactly. The point is to encourage group play, including public games.

  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Jars wrote: »
    so now instead of sharing your mf you share your dps. this isn't a beneficial change, it's more of the same.

    if you don't want to then you can't play public games no matter the system.

    At the very least, with the removal of enrage and hp regen, some affixes tuned, lower hp multipliers for multi and lower hp overall, someone leeching your dps isn't as much of a boat anchor as they used to be. I think people will be much more likely to group knowing they may have to carry someone's low dps but be assured their appropriate share of loot than knowing they're just flat giving up loot. Perfect solution? God no. Better than averaged MF? I'd say at least mildly. Let YOUR stats be YOUR stats. That's a good place to start, then find a mechanic to further address grouping if needed.

    Cog on
  • SirsonSirson Registered User regular
    Awesome update, making a good game even better. Looking forward to the "metric ton" of class change blog posts.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Plus, unless I'm wrong in how it worked, presumably the NV system combined with shared MF was ultra-fucked. Sure, you'll still get your guaranteed rares, but every single time a party member or two quits, to be replaced by two new guys with no stacks, that's a hit to your MF.

    And since public games tend to be a bit of a revolving door, that would suck.

  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Plus, unless I'm wrong in how it worked, presumably the NV system combined with shared MF was ultra-fucked. Sure, you'll still get your guaranteed rares, but every single time a party member or two quits, to be replaced by two new guys with no stacks, that's a hit to your MF.

    And since public games tend to be a bit of a revolving door, that would suck.

    The NV buff was always personal. Only the gear-based portion is shared.

    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    HexDex wrote: »
    @_j_ Good sir, and your MF farming ways, I call upon thee!

    My DH: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Caretta-1196/hero/2255633

    I am looking to upgrade her, cheaply. By cheap I mean, I would like to keep the upgrades at about 500k if I can, less is better. I may be willing to go as high as 1mil if its super great.

    She's just an alt, so my primary focus now is getting cheap MF. I play her in groups with friends. Not much soloing. My next slot I was thinking about targeting is the gloves. Now, I'm looking, and I can get gloves with +cirt damage, +crit chance, +MF, and +75ish dex, for about 500k. My question is thus: will the +crit damage cover the loss of about 150 dex over my current gloves? Or would I be better off waiting and getting a +200ish dex, +MF, +crit chance set to replace my current gloves?

    To your specific question of the gloves: I cannot answer that, since the damage bonus from +crit dmg depends on many factors. You would need to enter your character information into a site such as diablodamagecalculator.com to discern the actual dps increase of each pair of gloves.

    A few general observations:
    - Get a helm with a socket.
    - Should be able to get a higher MF amulet for a reasonable price.
    - Nice bracers
    - 13% attack speed on a quiver? Get that shit up to 15%!
    - Should be able to get better rings for reasonble price.

  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Diablo Progress was released a few days ago.

    Character ranking site. A very useful tool for discerning just how shitty you are!

This discussion has been closed.