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Diablo III: Thread over, much like windup wizard

ShenShen Go placidly amid the noise and hasteRegistered User regular
edited August 2012 in Games and Technology
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Diablo_III_demon_splash_logo.png

Eleven long years after Diablo 2: Lord of Distruction, Diablo 3 is finally upon us. Diablo 3 takes place 20 years after the events of Diablo 2; to get up to speed on the story so far, the following playlist serves as a great refresher on what has taken place in the world of Sanctuary.

d2anniversary.jpg

So what's different from Diablo 2? (According to this review from 2000, not much: Bulletproof Blizz)

The game is still an isometric click fest where you slaughter hundreds of demons in the enternal search for better loot, though several of the mechanics/game systems have been changed. It is now ONLINE ONLY. You can set games to be private (invite only), friends only, and open to public. With friends only games, your friends will see a quick join button on their main screens, letting them drop in any time as long as there is room. The max player size is also 4 now. Skill trees, skill points, synergies, and manual stat placement are all gone. Instead, all of your stat points (you get more than 5 now) are gained and placed automatically with each level up, with distribution based on your class. Skills are now broken into Actives and Passives, and are all gained as you level up, along with the new skill runes (see below). The potion belt is also gone, and potions themselves now have a 30 second cooldown, so no more chugging to stay alive. Instead, enemies drop Health Orbs, which simply heal you (and all your allies within range.) when you walk over them. The bigger the orb, the more it heals. Runes and Runewords are also gone, and have been replace with a proper crafting system. Hardcore makes a return, but the requires you to have one character reach level 10 in normal before you can create any Hardcore characters. And last, but not least, Hell is no longer the hardest difficulty in the game. That duty has been taken over by the Inferno difficulty, which has proved to be a worthy foe. There is plenty more info, with a lot more specifics, available at the official community sites game guide, which currently serves as Diablo 3s Mount Arreat. You can find a skill calculator there as well.

The Classes

The Barbarian, aka The Wayfarer


The Demon Hunter, fueled by Hatred and Discipline


The Monk, Unyielding in the service of Ivgorod


The Witch Doctor, aka the Doubtwalker


And last but not least, the prodigious Wizard


The Interface
Spoiler:

Skills and Skill Runes
Spoiler:

Crafting and the Artisans
Spoiler:

Followers
Spoiler:

Auction Houses
Spoiler:

Useful tools:

Game guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/
Skill calculator: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian
EHP calculator: http://rubensayshi.github.com/d3-ehp-calculator/#intro
Damage calculator: http://theasiangamer.com/2012/06/diablo-iii-damage-calculator-now-online/
Max values on items: http://www.d3rmt.com/guides/diablo-3-item-stat-maximum-values/
Blue tracker: http://d3db.com/blue/browse
Gem calculator: http://diablo-3-gem-calculator.com/index.php

Class guides:
Monk: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4211087360
(Will add any that are recommended)

Shen on
NDBwPJF.jpg
Origin: shenlongxz | 3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | D3: Ladi#2485 (EU)
«134567104

Posts

  • Kroyd_KrensonKroyd_Krenson Registered User regular
    Could any witch doctors share their Inferno viable builds? I'm struggling in act 2 with 30k health, 30k DPS and about 300 resist all.

    steam_sig.png
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User regular
    7506683726_7e48a7b6b9.jpg

    Might sell.

    Seriously J not only are you a monumentally umpleasant person when you start uttering the nonsense that passes for philosophy in your mind (shame on whatever institution you graduated in, and shame on your tutors for creating such a monster), but your sense of humor, such as it is, is awful.
  • HonkHonk Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    _J_ wrote: »
    7506683726_7e48a7b6b9.jpg

    Might sell.

    @ me what you get for them, would appreciate. I found almost exactly the same thing yesterday, but AH was down so I couldn't post them. :)

  • ShenShen Go placidly amid the noise and haste Registered User regular
    Is it just me or does it feel like things are hitting harder again? I'm not sure if they rebuffed Act 3 when they increased drop rates or if they reimplemented enemies dealing more damage with additional players in game, but it really feels like I'm a lot squishier again :(

    On the plus side, bought a weapon (for 27 million...) to bring me up to 34k dps, as its innate 588 LoH let me switch the amethysts in my weapons for emeralds. Still doing garbage dps compared to other classes at the same gear level, but them's the breaks.

    NDBwPJF.jpg
    Origin: shenlongxz | 3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | D3: Ladi#2485 (EU)
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    i don't know about things hitting harder, but I can almost swear they have turned down my personal decent drop rate. It's practically the only explanation for this mountain of mostly total crap I keep finding!...

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    Could any witch doctors share their Inferno viable builds? I'm struggling in act 2 with 30k health, 30k DPS and about 300 resist all.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afUQdP!WVU!acabZb

    1885 Int, 3K armour, 32K damage, 350-400 resist all, 30K health, 500 LoH.

    I use fetish army and voodoo whenever they're available, then pop spirit walk, run into the middle of a pack of enemies and use soul harvest, then move back a bit into a position to spam zombie bears over as many enemies as possible. Splinters whenever it's not worth the effort of setting up VQ, so for single enemies or when I'm saving fetish and voodoo for an elite pack. I've been playing with Tofy, who has a strong tanky barb, which helps a lot, but I can easily run Act 1 solo in MF gear, I would probably be ok in Act 2 solo with my optimal gear.

    I also struggled a bit in Act 2, mostly because there are so many quick small enemies everywhere that it's impossible to avoid being hit a little. Act 3 has actually been a little easier for me so far.

    steam_sig.png
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah Registered User regular
    So, everyone is switching to MF gear now? I haven't played since the hotfix came out. Been tackling my backlog.

  • Kroyd_KrensonKroyd_Krenson Registered User regular
    Could any witch doctors share their Inferno viable builds? I'm struggling in act 2 with 30k health, 30k DPS and about 300 resist all.

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afUQdP!WVU!acabZb

    1885 Int, 3K armour, 32K damage, 350-400 resist all, 30K health, 500 LoH.

    I use fetish army and voodoo whenever they're available, then pop spirit walk, run into the middle of a pack of enemies and use soul harvest, then move back a bit into a position to spam zombie bears over as many enemies as possible. Splinters whenever it's not worth the effort of setting up VQ, so for single enemies or when I'm saving fetish and voodoo for an elite pack. I've been playing with Tofy, who has a strong tanky barb, which helps a lot, but I can easily run Act 1 solo in MF gear, I would probably be ok in Act 2 solo with my optimal gear.

    I also struggled a bit in Act 2, mostly because there are so many quick small enemies everywhere that it's impossible to avoid being hit a little. Act 3 has actually been a little easier for me so far.

    That is kind of comforting, to hear Act 3 is not a huge leap in difficulty like Act 2 was. I tried a zombie bears build but died too much, currently running with Hex, Spirit walk and Soul harvest as supporting skills and the two DoT's (Locust and Haunt) as main damage dealers while I try to kite and use splinters. I am making some progress but it seems slow as hell. Maybe I should try upping my resists and armor to be closer to the numbers you list.

    steam_sig.png
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I spent around 2 mil on my weapon and one other piece, and the rest are just 10K-100K, and I cleared Act 1 and most of 2 spending about 100K. It's not terribly expensive, at least compared to some other builds I've seen.

    Act 3 seems a little more difficult numbers-wise, enemies have a lot of health and seem to do a lot of damage (I'm basing this on the fact that Tofy's barb died more than in act 2), but they're slower and have less range, so it's easier to line em up and knock em down.

    Speaking of which, a while ago I got a '10 enemies killed with a single blow' callout and my WD said "A perfect strike", which I enjoyed.

    steam_sig.png
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    I spent around 2 mil on my weapon and one other piece, and the rest are just 10K-100K, and I cleared Act 1 and most of 2 spending about 100K. It's not terribly expensive, at least compared to some other builds I've seen.

    Act 3 seems a little more difficult numbers-wise, enemies have a lot of health and seem to do a lot of damage (I'm basing this on the fact that Tofy's barb died more than in act 2), but they're slower and have less range, so it's easier to line em up and knock em down.

    Speaking of which, a while ago I got a '10 enemies killed with a single blow' callout and my WD said "A perfect strike", which I enjoyed.

    You get an achievement for killing 30+ (I think that's the number) in a single blow, or single-blow-equivalent.

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I spent around 2 mil on my weapon and one other piece, and the rest are just 10K-100K, and I cleared Act 1 and most of 2 spending about 100K. It's not terribly expensive, at least compared to some other builds I've seen.

    Act 3 seems a little more difficult numbers-wise, enemies have a lot of health and seem to do a lot of damage (I'm basing this on the fact that Tofy's barb died more than in act 2), but they're slower and have less range, so it's easier to line em up and knock em down.

    Speaking of which, a while ago I got a '10 enemies killed with a single blow' callout and my WD said "A perfect strike", which I enjoyed.

    You get an achievement for killing 30+ (I think that's the number) in a single blow, or single-blow-equivalent.

    Oh, I know that, what I mean is that knocking down 10 enemies at once was 'a perfect strike'.
    Spoiler:

    steam_sig.png
  • LanrutconLanrutcon Registered User regular
    This just in: Act 3 Inferno is still as much fun as experiencing root canal in a country-western bar.

    You may now continue with your daily...stuff.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: FFXIV: ARR and Sharepoint.
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This just in: Act 3 Inferno is still as much fun as experiencing root canal in a country-western bar.

    You may now continue with your daily...stuff.

    My monk is currently geared well enough to have Act 3 on farm. Yet, I'm still farming Act 1, every night. Why? A few reasons:

    1) Monsters in Act 2 and 3 have significantly more HP than those in Act 1. Even with impressive damage numbers (I'm feeling my Wheaties at 22k listed on my monk) it still takes an absurd amount of time to kill a champ/elite. This might be mitigated slightly with a different build, but it's still a huge hindrance. Overall, I expect any given champ encounter in Act 3 to take roughly 5-10 minutes each, and significantly more for certain monster/affix combinations (Shielding Nightmarish Waller Extra Health wyverns, for example).

    2) Monsters in Act 2 and 3 run away from melee significantly more than Act 1. Only a handful of monster types in Act 1 will actively flee melee. Act 2 and 3? Seems like 40-50% of monster types flee. This "small" behavior difference alone has a huge impact on my drops/minute.

    3) Monsters in Act 2 and 3 have much more difficult to predict spawning locations. In Act 1, I always know the location of no less than 5-7 champion/boss packs, and I'll frequently meet with more than that with just random boss/champ packs dropped randomly as well. Act 2 and 3 have much less easy to predict spawn locations.

    4) Bosses in Act 2 and 3 are significantly more difficult and time consuming to kill. Ghom is the most difficult boss in the game for my monk right now, and only beatable for me with a few build types - and even then, they're builds that would get me killed farming. He's completely unfarmable. Siegebreaker is doable, but he still takes a much greater amount of time than say, Zultan Kulle or the Butcher. Rakanoth is fun, but can still insta-gib me if I'm not careful, and it's not at all guaranteed to have 5 stacks by the time I reach him. Diablo is, of course, a night-long time investment to kill.

    Overall, I expect more 61+ drops/minute with Act 1 than I do any other act. Maybe at some point of gearing, the scales will tip again, but for now, even for an appropriately geared character, it's just a completely unnecessary pain.

    mato-andrew on
    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • LanrutconLanrutcon Registered User regular
    Let me sum up my latest attempt to finish Act 3 as a pretty well geared hybrid DH:

    First level of the first tower! aces! Bring it, demon bitches! ...wait...blue phasebeasts? at the bottom of the staircase from the level entrance? let's see what they can do....fast...vortex....waller...desecrate. Hmmm one screen to kite in against teleporting baddies that 3 shot me? and can teleport me? and lock me in walls? What the hell, let's give it a whirl. My stats are pretty decent.

    <11 deaths later>

    So this fight is impossible for a DH. Good to know.


    Until every enemy in Act 3/4 Inferno drops level 60 gear minimum, I'll be doing 1 hour full Act I clears thank you very much.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: FFXIV: ARR and Sharepoint.
  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    So I finally hit the Act 2 wall in Inferno.

    I ended up going with a Barb and Wizard. The Barb was well geared, but the Wizard and I were still on Act 1 gear. We were slaughtered for the duration of our very brief stay in Act 2. My resists are around 300, and my unmodified DH DPS is 27k (42k with Sharp Shooter). I just couldn't burn down these mobs fast enough - granted, we were in a party, so everything is tougher, I get it. But...I was just ineffectual. Especially against champs and bosses.

    So what's the catch? More DPS? I have a 935 DPS Crossbow. Should I opt for two 700+ DPS hand xbows? Maybe go for a 1.1k DPS two handed bow? Because right now, I have no solutions. I have maybe 1.5 mil in the bank, and before I sink all my gold on a weapon, I need to know that it's the right investment.

    Because right now, I just have no clue how to improve.

    I think Pringles original intention was to make tennis balls... but on the day the rubber was supposed to show up a truckload of potatoes came. Pringles is a laid-back company, so they just said, "Fuck it, cut em up!".
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    So I finally hit the Act 2 wall in Inferno.

    I ended up going with a Barb and Wizard. The Barb was well geared, but the Wizard and I were still on Act 1 gear. We were slaughtered for the duration of our very brief stay in Act 2. My resists are around 300, and my unmodified DH DPS is 27k (42k with Sharp Shooter). I just couldn't burn down these mobs fast enough - granted, we were in a party, so everything is tougher, I get it. But...I was just ineffectual. Especially against champs and bosses.

    So what's the catch? More DPS? I have a 935 DPS Crossbow. Should I opt for two 700+ DPS hand xbows? Maybe go for a 1.1k DPS two handed bow? Because right now, I have no solutions. I have maybe 1.5 mil in the bank, and before I sink all my gold on a weapon, I need to know that it's the right investment.

    Because right now, I just have no clue how to improve.

    I cruised through Inferno before the attack speed nerf on my DH with a 1.1k dps bow. The key for DH is crit damage. Crit damage is god. With about 190% crit damage, I'm up to about 90k dps with SS. Get crit where you can, but crit damage is really the key. I had significantly more resists than you though, I won't even enter inferno on any character with less than 500. Still, with even a little more than 600, my DH *was* getting 1-shot. Since the attack speed nerf though, I haven't picked the DH back up at all. The gameplay doesn't feel right to me anymore.

    mato-andrew on
    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • LanrutconLanrutcon Registered User regular
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    So I finally hit the Act 2 wall in Inferno.

    I ended up going with a Barb and Wizard. The Barb was well geared, but the Wizard and I were still on Act 1 gear. We were slaughtered for the duration of our very brief stay in Act 2. My resists are around 300, and my unmodified DH DPS is 27k (42k with Sharp Shooter). I just couldn't burn down these mobs fast enough - granted, we were in a party, so everything is tougher, I get it. But...I was just ineffectual. Especially against champs and bosses.

    So what's the catch? More DPS? I have a 935 DPS Crossbow. Should I opt for two 700+ DPS hand xbows? Maybe go for a 1.1k DPS two handed bow? Because right now, I have no solutions. I have maybe 1.5 mil in the bank, and before I sink all my gold on a weapon, I need to know that it's the right investment.

    Because right now, I just have no clue how to improve.

    I cruised through Inferno before the attack speed nerf on my DH with a 1.1k dps bow. The key for DH is crit damage. Crit damage is god. With abotu 190% crit damage, I'm up to about 90k dps with SS. Get crit where you can, but crit damage is really the key. I had significantly more resists than you though, I won't even enter inferno on any character with less than 500. Still, with even a little more than 600, my DH *was* getting 1-shot. Since the attack speed nerf though, I haven't picked the DH back up at all. The gameplay doesn't feel right to me anymore.

    I'd offer this advice: get a bow, not a crossbow. Run 3 dps passives (archery, SS, steady aim...cookiecutter). Use cluster arrow + loaded for bear as your secondary. Get +crit damage/+crit chance gear at the expense of defensive stats (for group play).

    I'm pulling 44k dps before SS with a 1022 damage +dex bow I bought for 700,000 gold. It sounds like your armor needs work, not your weapon? What's your dex?

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: FFXIV: ARR and Sharepoint.
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    So I finally hit the Act 2 wall in Inferno.

    I ended up going with a Barb and Wizard. The Barb was well geared, but the Wizard and I were still on Act 1 gear. We were slaughtered for the duration of our very brief stay in Act 2. My resists are around 300, and my unmodified DH DPS is 27k (42k with Sharp Shooter). I just couldn't burn down these mobs fast enough - granted, we were in a party, so everything is tougher, I get it. But...I was just ineffectual. Especially against champs and bosses.

    So what's the catch? More DPS? I have a 935 DPS Crossbow. Should I opt for two 700+ DPS hand xbows? Maybe go for a 1.1k DPS two handed bow? Because right now, I have no solutions. I have maybe 1.5 mil in the bank, and before I sink all my gold on a weapon, I need to know that it's the right investment.

    Because right now, I just have no clue how to improve.

    I cruised through Inferno before the attack speed nerf on my DH with a 1.1k dps bow. The key for DH is crit damage. Crit damage is god. With abotu 190% crit damage, I'm up to about 90k dps with SS. Get crit where you can, but crit damage is really the key. I had significantly more resists than you though, I won't even enter inferno on any character with less than 500. Still, with even a little more than 600, my DH *was* getting 1-shot. Since the attack speed nerf though, I haven't picked the DH back up at all. The gameplay doesn't feel right to me anymore.

    I'd offer this advice: get a bow, not a crossbow. Run 3 dps passives (archery, SS, steady aim...cookiecutter). Use cluster arrow + loaded for bear as your secondary. Get +crit damage/+crit chance gear at the expense of defensive stats (for group play).

    I'm pulling 44k dps before SS with a 1022 damage +dex bow I bought for 700,000 gold. It sounds like your armor needs work, not your weapon? What's your dex?

    I think you're quoting the wrong guy. I'm not particularly inclined to picking my DH back up. Gameplay is too slow now. :P

    Though, I agree with your suggestions! In addition, I think for every DH going through inferno, Caltrops + Torturous Ground is basically a required skill, somewhat like Smoke Screen. I also have had so many occasions where Shadow Power + Gloom has literally made a boss possible that otherwise would not be possible.

    mato-andrew on
    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    So I finally hit the Act 2 wall in Inferno.

    I ended up going with a Barb and Wizard. The Barb was well geared, but the Wizard and I were still on Act 1 gear. We were slaughtered for the duration of our very brief stay in Act 2. My resists are around 300, and my unmodified DH DPS is 27k (42k with Sharp Shooter). I just couldn't burn down these mobs fast enough - granted, we were in a party, so everything is tougher, I get it. But...I was just ineffectual. Especially against champs and bosses.

    So what's the catch? More DPS? I have a 935 DPS Crossbow. Should I opt for two 700+ DPS hand xbows? Maybe go for a 1.1k DPS two handed bow? Because right now, I have no solutions. I have maybe 1.5 mil in the bank, and before I sink all my gold on a weapon, I need to know that it's the right investment.

    Because right now, I just have no clue how to improve.

    I cruised through Inferno before the attack speed nerf on my DH with a 1.1k dps bow. The key for DH is crit damage. Crit damage is god. With abotu 190% crit damage, I'm up to about 90k dps with SS. Get crit where you can, but crit damage is really the key. I had significantly more resists than you though, I won't even enter inferno on any character with less than 500. Still, with even a little more than 600, my DH *was* getting 1-shot. Since the attack speed nerf though, I haven't picked the DH back up at all. The gameplay doesn't feel right to me anymore.

    I'd offer this advice: get a bow, not a crossbow. Run 3 dps passives (archery, SS, steady aim...cookiecutter). Use cluster arrow + loaded for bear as your secondary. Get +crit damage/+crit chance gear at the expense of defensive stats (for group play).

    I'm pulling 44k dps before SS with a 1022 damage +dex bow I bought for 700,000 gold. It sounds like your armor needs work, not your weapon? What's your dex?

    I'll post my stats up tonight, once I get home. My dex is fairly decent (1200-1400?) but may not be enough to hack it. I'll be able to provide a better report later.

    It also could be a skill issue. For some reason, I've been using Impale lately, with the last brutal damage rune. When it crits, it's mind blowing damage (more so with Sharpshooter). But it's not very hatred efficient. I typically run Hungering Arrow and Frost Arrow as my secondary. I can concede there may be better options, but my unmodified crit is around 22% without SS.

    I also tried to switch from vault to smokescreen, and I just couldn't. I'm too good with vault - I can drop a caltrop and vault at the same time. I use the rune that makes vault cheaper if you perform multiple vaults (I can do about 6 before I'm out of discipline).

    I think Pringles original intention was to make tennis balls... but on the day the rubber was supposed to show up a truckload of potatoes came. Pringles is a laid-back company, so they just said, "Fuck it, cut em up!".
  • LanrutconLanrutcon Registered User regular
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: FFXIV: ARR and Sharepoint.
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Smoke Screen is amazing, but it's so painful for me to use. I hate having Smoke Screen on my bar on my DH much like I hate having Serenity on my bar on my Monk. Using it (and therefore, justifying having it) means that I've failed somehow in controlling the monsters I'm facing, or that I'm otherwise not quite geared for the content I'm up against. I love it, but I hate it, and I need it, and I can't get rid of it.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: RANGED BARBS ARE HILARIOUSLY FUN. XD

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • LanrutconLanrutcon Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Smoke Screen is amazing, but it's so painful for me to use. I hate having Smoke Screen on my bar on my DH much like I hate having Serenity on my bar on my Monk. Using it (and therefore, justifying having it) means that I've failed somehow in controlling the monsters I'm facing, or that I'm otherwise not quite geared for the content I'm up against. I love it, but I hate it, and I need it, and I can't get rid of it.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: RANGED BARBS ARE HILARIOUSLY FUN. XD

    How do you generate Rage as a Ranged Barb, btw? could you post your build? How do you itemize?

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: FFXIV: ARR and Sharepoint.
  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Smoke Screen is amazing, but it's so painful for me to use. I hate having Smoke Screen on my bar on my DH much like I hate having Serenity on my bar on my Monk. Using it (and therefore, justifying having it) means that I've failed somehow in controlling the monsters I'm facing, or that I'm otherwise not quite geared for the content I'm up against. I love it, but I hate it, and I need it, and I can't get rid of it.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: RANGED BARBS ARE HILARIOUSLY FUN. XD

    How do you generate Rage as a Ranged Barb, btw? could you post your build? How do you itemize?

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WkdfiP!Zf!cccZYZ

    It's actually really easy to itemize. You want crit and crit damage, and then normal barb gear. My barb currently runs with roughly 23k damage (using a 1k dps 2hander with 60% crit damage and 900ish LoH that I got for like, 200k. It's really too good), 30-35%ish crit, and about 250 crit damage. Using this build, Ancient Spear crits for over 300k with WotB.

    Also, having a mighty belt with -3 to rage cost for Weapon Throw is really helpful as well (but not required, I did it without one).

    mato-andrew on
    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • LanrutconLanrutcon Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.

    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage. SS is worshipped for the same thing: the moment you start damaging an enemy the kiting will start, so what better way to open than by doing so at 100% crit rate? SS will tick up during the seconds you spend kiting, so it's not even a total waste during a long fight (and it grants 6% crit base due to what is believed to be a bug).

    If you're going to stand still and wail on something then sure, SS is a waste, but trust me: you won't be standing still a lot.

    Lanrutcon on
    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: FFXIV: ARR and Sharepoint.
  • SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Let me sum up my latest attempt to finish Act 3 as a pretty well geared hybrid DH:

    First level of the first tower! aces! Bring it, demon bitches! ...wait...blue phasebeasts? at the bottom of the staircase from the level entrance? let's see what they can do....fast...vortex....waller...desecrate. Hmmm one screen to kite in against teleporting baddies that 3 shot me? and can teleport me? and lock me in walls? What the hell, let's give it a whirl. My stats are pretty decent.

    <11 deaths later>

    So this fight is impossible for a DH. Good to know.


    Until every enemy in Act 3/4 Inferno drops level 60 gear minimum, I'll be doing 1 hour full Act I clears thank you very much.

    Bottom of the stairs can be workable, I stand by the exit and juke in and out, going in when I have enough discipline for SS, taking a few pot shots then jumping out to regen/wait for prep.

  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.
    No, it's not mitigated by it. When you have 3 or more targets on the screen, Evasive Fire will do more damage than every HA shot except Exploding Teeth. Even on single targets, the advantage of HA w/ Devouring is lessened because the arrow takes so long. I can fire 2 Evasive Shots before a HA hits, and most trash is dead by then. The math is based on paper doll DPS. It is not based on an actual simulation, where Evasive Shot autotargets and instahits 3 things at a time.
    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage.
    The damage of LFB doesn't come close to Cluster Bombs. Nothing in the game does. It's harder to aim, but it makes up for it when you demolish a champion pack stuck in Caltrops. And there really isn't that much kiting needed anymore. The range of Ball Lightning and others are so big that you can spam them all over the place to kill champions on the bridge and fortress in A3.

    Your overall damage is severely limited by using LFB because individually it doesn't hit significantly harder than a Ball Lightning hitting twice, but you still have the huge hatred penalty. Cluster Bombs shares the hatred penalty, but when you're hitting for a million at a time it doesn't matter so much.

    To me, kiting seems so passe. I'd rather just have things die when I look at them.

    Jibba on
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Smoke Screen is amazing, but it's so painful for me to use. I hate having Smoke Screen on my bar on my DH much like I hate having Serenity on my bar on my Monk. Using it (and therefore, justifying having it) means that I've failed somehow in controlling the monsters I'm facing, or that I'm otherwise not quite geared for the content I'm up against. I love it, but I hate it, and I need it, and I can't get rid of it.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: RANGED BARBS ARE HILARIOUSLY FUN. XD

    How do you generate Rage as a Ranged Barb, btw? could you post your build? How do you itemize?

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WkdfiP!Zf!cccZYZ

    It's actually really easy to itemize. You want crit and crit damage, and then normal barb gear. My barb currently runs with roughly 23k damage (using a 1k dps 2hander with 60% crit damage and 900ish LoH that I got for like, 200k. It's really too good), 30-35%ish crit, and about 250 crit damage. Using this build, Ancient Spear crits for over 300k with WotB.
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Smoke Screen is amazing, but it's so painful for me to use. I hate having Smoke Screen on my bar on my DH much like I hate having Serenity on my bar on my Monk. Using it (and therefore, justifying having it) means that I've failed somehow in controlling the monsters I'm facing, or that I'm otherwise not quite geared for the content I'm up against. I love it, but I hate it, and I need it, and I can't get rid of it.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: RANGED BARBS ARE HILARIOUSLY FUN. XD

    How do you generate Rage as a Ranged Barb, btw? could you post your build? How do you itemize?

    A couple of things about that build I posted:

    Rage is generated via the multiple hits of Weapon Throw + Ricochet, keeping Ancient Spear on cooldown and keeping Battle Rage + Into the Fray up. Basically, your constant hits will keep you more than filled with rage. Builds that I've seen successfully use Leap instead of Frenzy, but I like having Frenzy for breaking pots and for artificially increasing the size of my Ancient Spear crits. XD

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    Jibba wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.
    No, it's not mitigated by it. When you have 3 or more targets on the screen, Evasive Fire will do more damage than every HA shot except Exploding Teeth. Even on single targets, the advantage of HA w/ Devouring is lessened because the arrow takes so long. I can fire 2 Evasive Shots before a HA hits, and most trash is dead by then. The math is based on paper doll DPS. It is not based on an actual simulation, where Evasive Shot autotargets and instahits 3 things at a time.
    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage.
    The damage of LFB doesn't come close to Cluster Bombs. Nothing in the game does. It's harder to aim, but it makes up for it when you demolish a champion pack stuck in Caltrops. And there really isn't that much kiting needed anymore. The range of Ball Lightning and others are so big that you can spam them all over the place to kill champions on the bridge and fortress in A3.

    Your overall damage is severely limited by using LFB because individually it doesn't hit significantly harder than a Ball Lightning hitting twice, but you still have the huge hatred penalty. Cluster Bombs shares the hatred penalty, but when you're hitting for a million at a time it doesn't matter so much.

    How do you get over Cluster Bomb's range? I tried that for a while after watching Athene abuse it, and I couldn't make it work. You need some pretty absurd defenses to stay alive long enough to hurt that hard.

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Jibba wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.
    No, it's not mitigated by it. When you have 3 or more targets on the screen, Evasive Fire will do more damage than every HA shot except Exploding Teeth. Even on single targets, the advantage of HA w/ Devouring is lessened because the arrow takes so long. I can fire 2 Evasive Shots before a HA hits, and most trash is dead by then. The math is based on paper doll DPS. It is not based on an actual simulation, where Evasive Shot autotargets and instahits 3 things at a time.
    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage.
    The damage of LFB doesn't come close to Cluster Bombs. Nothing in the game does. It's harder to aim, but it makes up for it when you demolish a champion pack stuck in Caltrops. And there really isn't that much kiting needed anymore. The range of Ball Lightning and others are so big that you can spam them all over the place to kill champions on the bridge and fortress in A3.

    Your overall damage is severely limited by using LFB because individually it doesn't hit significantly harder than a Ball Lightning hitting twice, but you still have the huge hatred penalty. Cluster Bombs shares the hatred penalty, but when you're hitting for a million at a time it doesn't matter so much.

    How do you get over Cluster Bomb's range? I tried that for a while after watching Athene abuse it, and I couldn't make it work. You need some pretty absurd defenses to stay alive long enough to hurt that hard.

    It's what the caltrops are for. Also the Templar is helpful for bosses. Obviously you lose out on a lot of goodies by not having an Enchantress/Scoundrel, but when he holds Rakanoth still for 15 seconds letting you obliterate him, it's worthwhile. :P

    Jibba on
  • SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Smoke Screen is amazing, but it's so painful for me to use. I hate having Smoke Screen on my bar on my DH much like I hate having Serenity on my bar on my Monk. Using it (and therefore, justifying having it) means that I've failed somehow in controlling the monsters I'm facing, or that I'm otherwise not quite geared for the content I'm up against. I love it, but I hate it, and I need it, and I can't get rid of it.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: RANGED BARBS ARE HILARIOUSLY FUN. XD

    That is completely the wrong way to look at smoke screen, you're seeing it as an emergency button for when everything else fails, I see it as the base. It's such an amazing ability, you will not unlock the full power of DH until you maximize it and learn to use it all the time.

  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    Jibba wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.
    No, it's not mitigated by it. When you have 3 or more targets on the screen, Evasive Fire will do more damage than every HA shot except Exploding Teeth. Even on single targets, the advantage of HA w/ Devouring is lessened because the arrow takes so long. I can fire 2 Evasive Shots before a HA hits, and most trash is dead by then. The math is based on paper doll DPS. It is not based on an actual simulation, where Evasive Shot autotargets and instahits 3 things at a time.
    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage.
    The damage of LFB doesn't come close to Cluster Bombs. Nothing in the game does. It's harder to aim, but it makes up for it when you demolish a champion pack stuck in Caltrops. And there really isn't that much kiting needed anymore. The range of Ball Lightning and others are so big that you can spam them all over the place to kill champions on the bridge and fortress in A3.

    Your overall damage is severely limited by using LFB because individually it doesn't hit significantly harder than a Ball Lightning hitting twice, but you still have the huge hatred penalty. Cluster Bombs shares the hatred penalty, but when you're hitting for a million at a time it doesn't matter so much.

    How do you get over Cluster Bomb's range? I tried that for a while after watching Athene abuse it, and I couldn't make it work. You need some pretty absurd defenses to stay alive long enough to hurt that hard.

    It's what the caltrops are for. Also the Templar is helpful for bosses. Obviously you lose out on a lot of goodies by not having an Enchantress/Scoundrel, but when he holds Rakanoth still for 15 seconds letting you obliterate him, it's worthwhile. :P

    What on earth are you gearing your templar with to let him stand up to anything other than a sand baby for more than 1 second? O.o

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Jibba wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.
    No, it's not mitigated by it. When you have 3 or more targets on the screen, Evasive Fire will do more damage than every HA shot except Exploding Teeth. Even on single targets, the advantage of HA w/ Devouring is lessened because the arrow takes so long. I can fire 2 Evasive Shots before a HA hits, and most trash is dead by then. The math is based on paper doll DPS. It is not based on an actual simulation, where Evasive Shot autotargets and instahits 3 things at a time.
    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage.
    The damage of LFB doesn't come close to Cluster Bombs. Nothing in the game does. It's harder to aim, but it makes up for it when you demolish a champion pack stuck in Caltrops. And there really isn't that much kiting needed anymore. The range of Ball Lightning and others are so big that you can spam them all over the place to kill champions on the bridge and fortress in A3.

    Your overall damage is severely limited by using LFB because individually it doesn't hit significantly harder than a Ball Lightning hitting twice, but you still have the huge hatred penalty. Cluster Bombs shares the hatred penalty, but when you're hitting for a million at a time it doesn't matter so much.

    How do you get over Cluster Bomb's range? I tried that for a while after watching Athene abuse it, and I couldn't make it work. You need some pretty absurd defenses to stay alive long enough to hurt that hard.

    It's what the caltrops are for. Also the Templar is helpful for bosses. Obviously you lose out on a lot of goodies by not having an Enchantress/Scoundrel, but when he holds Rakanoth still for 15 seconds letting you obliterate him, it's worthwhile. :P

    What on earth are you gearing your templar with to let him stand up to anything other than a sand baby for more than 1 second? O.o

    For whatever reason bosses still target spells at him, even after they've knocked him out.

    Like, he keeps Butcher still long enough for 4 Cluster Bombs. Even after Rakanoth knocks him out, he'll still target his first disc attack towards him. It's kind of weird.

    Jibba on
  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    Jibba wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.
    No, it's not mitigated by it. When you have 3 or more targets on the screen, Evasive Fire will do more damage than every HA shot except Exploding Teeth. Even on single targets, the advantage of HA w/ Devouring is lessened because the arrow takes so long. I can fire 2 Evasive Shots before a HA hits, and most trash is dead by then. The math is based on paper doll DPS. It is not based on an actual simulation, where Evasive Shot autotargets and instahits 3 things at a time.
    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage.
    The damage of LFB doesn't come close to Cluster Bombs. Nothing in the game does. It's harder to aim, but it makes up for it when you demolish a champion pack stuck in Caltrops. And there really isn't that much kiting needed anymore. The range of Ball Lightning and others are so big that you can spam them all over the place to kill champions on the bridge and fortress in A3.

    Your overall damage is severely limited by using LFB because individually it doesn't hit significantly harder than a Ball Lightning hitting twice, but you still have the huge hatred penalty. Cluster Bombs shares the hatred penalty, but when you're hitting for a million at a time it doesn't matter so much.

    How do you get over Cluster Bomb's range? I tried that for a while after watching Athene abuse it, and I couldn't make it work. You need some pretty absurd defenses to stay alive long enough to hurt that hard.

    It's what the caltrops are for. Also the Templar is helpful for bosses. Obviously you lose out on a lot of goodies by not having an Enchantress/Scoundrel, but when he holds Rakanoth still for 15 seconds letting you obliterate him, it's worthwhile. :P

    What on earth are you gearing your templar with to let him stand up to anything other than a sand baby for more than 1 second? O.o

    For whatever reason bosses still target spells at him, even after they've knocked him out.

    Like, he keeps Butcher still long enough for 4 Cluster Bombs. Even after Rakanoth knocks him out, he'll still target his first disc attack towards him. It's kind of weird.

    O.o Is that so shocking? I mean...if I were an all powerful demon with the power of death at my command...and I heard Kormac speaking for 3 seconds....I would make SURE I killed him.

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  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
  • mato-andrewmato-andrew Registered User regular
    Jibba wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    Jibba wrote: »
    If you're running with a group and you want to use Frost Arrow, should be something like this:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRYjXV!Yec!bZZYZb

    Smokescreen, Caltrops and Prep are just so, so good. You really don't need Vault if you're playing with other people. Sharpshooter is like a 3-8% DPS boost overall for most people which is ok but not as good as the other abilities. Plus in multiplayer games, things stay alive for much longer so SS loses effectiveness since it's all about upfront damage.

    Marked for Death is especially useful against champs, but you could replace it with something else.

    As for your main attack, Evasive Fire is just awesome. With Frost Arrow, you can consider switching it for Hungering Arrow w/ Devouring, but in general Evasive Fire is just a great skill to use - especially solo. When people talk about DPS, they're only looking at the paperdoll and aren't looking at actual DPS. Evasive Fire is an instant hit without travel time, so its true DPS is actually higher than any of the other Hatred builders that take time to make it to their target.

    The problem with Loaded for Bear is that it doesn't do anything particularly well. It's got good damage, no doubt, but its damage per hatred is much, much lower than any of the Elemental Arrow attacks because you'll never hit a target with more than one or two of the grenades. I would either go with one of the Elemental Arrow variants or Razor Disc chakram, or if you're really dedicated to blowing the shit out of champions, get Cluster Bombs (w/ Grenadier passive.)

    Gonna disagree on a few points there: for single target damage, Evasive Fire is worse the Hungering arrow (35% base chance to do double damage, before you even add a rune). The travel time is mitigated by the fact that the arrows will auto-correct in flight to almost assure that almost every arrow hits. The math is pretty clearcut on it, hence everyone toting Devouring as the cookiecutter choice for glass cannons.
    No, it's not mitigated by it. When you have 3 or more targets on the screen, Evasive Fire will do more damage than every HA shot except Exploding Teeth. Even on single targets, the advantage of HA w/ Devouring is lessened because the arrow takes so long. I can fire 2 Evasive Shots before a HA hits, and most trash is dead by then. The math is based on paper doll DPS. It is not based on an actual simulation, where Evasive Shot autotargets and instahits 3 things at a time.
    The idea with Cluster Arrow is that you're going to spend your time kiting in Inferno. You'll have very little 'shooty' time when you're dodging a pack of rare Shamans or flying dinosaurs in Act 3, so you need that maximize that one shot you get every now and then while weaving between fireballs. That one shot is Cluster Arrow with Loaded for Bear. It's the freight train of burst damage.
    The damage of LFB doesn't come close to Cluster Bombs. Nothing in the game does. It's harder to aim, but it makes up for it when you demolish a champion pack stuck in Caltrops. And there really isn't that much kiting needed anymore. The range of Ball Lightning and others are so big that you can spam them all over the place to kill champions on the bridge and fortress in A3.

    Your overall damage is severely limited by using LFB because individually it doesn't hit significantly harder than a Ball Lightning hitting twice, but you still have the huge hatred penalty. Cluster Bombs shares the hatred penalty, but when you're hitting for a million at a time it doesn't matter so much.

    How do you get over Cluster Bomb's range? I tried that for a while after watching Athene abuse it, and I couldn't make it work. You need some pretty absurd defenses to stay alive long enough to hurt that hard.

    It's what the caltrops are for. Also the Templar is helpful for bosses. Obviously you lose out on a lot of goodies by not having an Enchantress/Scoundrel, but when he holds Rakanoth still for 15 seconds letting you obliterate him, it's worthwhile. :P

    What on earth are you gearing your templar with to let him stand up to anything other than a sand baby for more than 1 second? O.o

    For whatever reason bosses still target spells at him, even after they've knocked him out.

    Like, he keeps Butcher still long enough for 4 Cluster Bombs. Even after Rakanoth knocks him out, he'll still target his first disc attack towards him. It's kind of weird.

    That's awesome. I haven't used the Templar since I discovered that I could get 3% IAS/15% armor from the Enchantress. I'll have to give him a second look if he's got some sort of passive taunt.
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This is what I run for group play: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aPYVXj!YeT!acZbZY

    Your dex is a tiny bit below average, tbh. If you're glass cannon-ing around you should be packing more. If you like the damage on Impale you're gonna love Cluster Arrows. Vault is a harsh mistress, and I can totally see people using it over Caltrops (I'm a huge supporter of Caltrops, personally)...but Vault over Smoke Screen? You should try and become familiar with Smoke Screen, it's the single best defensive tool Demon Hunters have. Without it you're going to suffer a great deal as you get further into Inferno.

    Smoke Screen is amazing, but it's so painful for me to use. I hate having Smoke Screen on my bar on my DH much like I hate having Serenity on my bar on my Monk. Using it (and therefore, justifying having it) means that I've failed somehow in controlling the monsters I'm facing, or that I'm otherwise not quite geared for the content I'm up against. I love it, but I hate it, and I need it, and I can't get rid of it.

    ON AN UNRELATED NOTE: RANGED BARBS ARE HILARIOUSLY FUN. XD

    That is completely the wrong way to look at smoke screen, you're seeing it as an emergency button for when everything else fails, I see it as the base. It's such an amazing ability, you will not unlock the full power of DH until you maximize it and learn to use it all the time.

    I disagree with your opinions.

    They're gathered like wolves on the boardwalk below, howling for answers no wolves can know!
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Lanrutcon wrote: »
    This just in: Act 3 Inferno is still as much fun as experiencing root canal in a country-western bar.

    You may now continue with your daily...stuff.

    My monk is currently geared well enough to have Act 3 on farm. Yet, I'm still farming Act 1, every night. Why? A few reasons:
    Spoiler:
    Bravo! *applauds*

    So I ran headlong into the "Inferno mob health scales way too much with more players" this weekend when I tried to play with three friends. It's just frustrating and ridiculous. They claim the game was balanced around coop, but it sure seems easier to play solo or, at most, with one other person playing a complimentary role -- a high DPS in my case to go with my tankyish barb. Mob health with 3-4 people in the game just gets too high and is less productive for everyone involved.

    There are so many things about this game that seem untuned for how long they were working on it.

    Patch 5.4 wrote:
    First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
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  • PookiepooPookiepoo Registered User regular
    I'd spent days looking for upgrades at the 25m level and couldn't find anything I was happy with. Finally, I found a massive upgrade priced at 99k. Then, this morning I found a big weapon upgrade for 2.5m. The AH definitely rewards patience and persistence. Eventually someone will come along and horribly misprice something.

    Love,

    | Steam: Pookie | DOTA 2 Pookie |
  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    Fair points everyone - I guess I should give Smoke Screen another look. I just enjoy teleporting away and out of everything. I use the speed passive after a vault/smoke screen. I haul a lot of ass.

    Anywho, weapons. Outside of life on hit, is there any compelling argument for two hand xbows, versus a two hander? How do I assess the DPS of both bows, versus a two-handed bow? I realize I can't take two 500 DPS hand xbows, and assume it's a 1000 DPS versus my 935 DPS two-handed xbow. Outside of adding the passive boosts of each weapon, is it a viable tactic? I'm looking for Pro/Con's really - thanks in advance my fellow DH's. *fistbump*

    I think Pringles original intention was to make tennis balls... but on the day the rubber was supposed to show up a truckload of potatoes came. Pringles is a laid-back company, so they just said, "Fuck it, cut em up!".
  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    Pookiepoo wrote: »
    I'd spent days looking for upgrades at the 25m level and couldn't find anything I was happy with. Finally, I found a massive upgrade priced at 99k. Then, this morning I found a big weapon upgrade for 2.5m. The AH definitely rewards patience and persistence. Eventually someone will come along and horribly misprice something.

    Big confirm to this; I got an amulet for 315k a couple of days ago that I'm pretty sure is worth 4-5m.

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