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The Selling Out Kickstarter
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From their end, it would have a massive administrative overhead in terms of effort and oversight- it would be a huge relief for them to not have to manage it.
I'm a big fan of Penny Arcade, but interestingly - I dont care whether they have ads or not. I'm sure everyone says this, but I genuinely cant remember the last time I clicked on any banner on any website I visit regularly. So, for me, it isn't worth it, but I support their endeavour.
If they had being playing the card of "you've been getting all this for free, so dont you think you owe us?" - then it would be different. But they seem to have approached it with a candidness that's to be commended for any business.
https://twitter.com/cwgabriel
Also, Khoo seems like a really sharp guy! So I'm guessing he verified all of Johnny Messageboard's "Is this a valid Kickstarter project?" questions before they went live with it.
It's interesting that they picked Comic Con week to do this - I like the throwing down the gauntlet aspect of it.
Do yourself a service and don't go through the twitter feed for that blog writer. Pure, unadulterated hate-on for Gabe/PA, it appears.
That being said, I don't feel like this is a KS Project, and agree that it doesn't meet the KS policies, nor it's intended use. They may have to seek some other way of amassing money like they have done previously.
If I walk into a store and buy something, I know exactly what Im getting at the time I'm buying it. This is different. This is a service Im getting for free, asking for donations and if I donate, I might.. or might not... get something big a shiny and cool, but they aren't going to tell you what it is. Where else in this messed up world would that work? Not at your local store, for sure.
1) Fair enough.
2) If you don't want to give them money, don't. There is absolutely nothing coercive about this. This isn't "send us money or we don't deliver our product", it's "send us money or absolutely nothing changes from the status quo". There is nothing coercive or exploitative about that other than in your head.
3) PA can run multiple enormous conventions and a worldwide charity (among other things) in addition to the M-W-F news posts and comics, but you're worried they won't be able to fulfill their obligation for whatever additional services they've decided to give us?
4) Yes, this is for a year. Next year if they decide to try this again it's completely up to us whether or not to support them again or go back to the exact same situation we have right now. This isn't "send us money or we don't deliver our product", it's "send us money or absolutely nothing changes from the status quo". There is nothing coercive or exploitative about that other than in your head.
STEAM: Gasman1220 | My Backloggery
... You get "no more ads". "No more ads" in and of itself allows things to happen, and then you get "other bonus things like the Lookouts stuff" too. Sites that aren't ad-supported can do anything they want with content, navigation, and so forth; personally, I want PA to have that freedom.
If you don't feel like donating to turn PA into an ad-free site, well, don't. That's totally cool.
Also even if you don't donate PA isn't going to become a pay site, if they hit their kickstarter PA will be free without ads and for the low low cost of you not having to pay anything. No obligation and all of the benefit of the ad free site. Those horrible fuckers.
Well for one, Amazon and Kickstarter are taking 15% total (I think its 7.5% amazon 7.5% kickstarter) a cut of the cash. So by funding PA, your also funding Amazon and Kickstarter. Not necessarily a bad thing, but does everyone that puts down a dollar for PA know that they only get $0.85? What if they just did it on their own, without having to bend any Kickstarter rules and had people donate directly?
Unfortunately, it happens a lot. Buy x product, bring home, unpackage, doesn't effing work.
The difference here is that PA has developed a high level of trust with the customer base. If they do something that fails that would not be surprising (shit happens). But if they do a whole year's worth of junk that isn't worth my time and/or money, then I would be shocked.
I'm probably playing Neverwinter or SimCity right now.
So the complaint is that not enough money is getting to pa directly? Because money does not magically get to people when you pledge it, there is always going to be an overhead. If PA had to set up something of their own, they'd probably have to use a different company that charges more than amazon/kickstarter.
Yeah I don't see why people are going "But that's not what Kickstarter is for!" Who gives a shit what KS is "for"? It's a trustworthy funding apparatus that acts as a good 3rd-party mediator for pledged payments. KS isn't a fucking charity that G&T have taken over to fill their pockets; it's a tool they're using like everyone else who sets up a KS.
I honestly suspect this is sour grapes from people who have failed kickstarter projects mad that PA can put up theirs and get funded over night.
I mean, do these people also wax poetical on what Paypal, credit cards, and silver dollars are "for"? If I set up a tip jar in a red pot, are they going to whine about how red coin kettles are for the Salvation Army?
I don't really understand the... strength of the outrage I am seeing at this. If you don't like it, don't donate, nothing will change for you.
I'll probably donate something. The value that these forums have provided me over the years is worth far more than they get from me from ads (I don't do PAX or buy merch - although I did look to see if they had any coffee mugs the other day...).
Its the internet land of outrage. I mean when I read about this on G4 the only comment was about how PA was ruining kickstarter and being greedy blah blah blah.
I just find it funny people are mad that regular people are donating to PA to fund their business, THE HORROR!
Public radio and television have used this model for literal decades.
They do need the money though, they need the money to fund the project that is "penny-arcade no longer brought to you by your corporate masters". Its not like the people donating to PA would instead donate to other causes if PA wasn't offering this project.
I... What?
What?
Really?
I was under the impression the selling out was a joke on those very same complaints they've recieved over the years. If anything having fans directly support them is the purest form of commerce available. "We like you enough to put our money where our mouth is, even when you have told us we specifically do not have to do this."
My comment to that is, why would you support it then? Right now X-namelss company is supporting the service you use. If you do or don't support it, nothing changes for you. Does anyone think PA's ads are obstrusive? They are actually pretty tastfully done compared almost every other site on the net.
So why pay? And more importantly, why would Tycho and Gabe have the gall to ask you to pay? Because they know you will.
People will support it for the name alone. Ignoring the fact that it's a pointless Kickstarter. I basically put it on the same level as the ones that SA frequently ridicules. They do not need this extra money. They'll continue doing what they do regardless, only if you waste your money you won't have any ads! As if the ads were that intrusive anyway.
I mean, who needs food, really? And an office? And equipment?
They can just draw the comic on napkins and deliver them to every one of use personally.
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NEWS FLASH: not everyone has the same views as you on everything!
G&T don't know if enough people want to get rid of the ads to support an ad-free site. They have no way of knowing what the answer to that is except for doing exactly what they're doing. That is why they call it an experiment. If it doesn't work, then you were right - people don't mind the ads, and they have a perfectly good model to fall back on.
And yes, asking for money is exactly the same thing as forcing you to pay. :eyeroll:
Because people want an ad free site and a feeling of empowerment "I helped keep PA fund an experiment in a new business model." And again if you do not pay you still get the same benefit you were already getting. So why does it matter if they do this kickstarter and fund their business in an alternative manor? Do you think the funds they are generating would be going to more noble causes if it wasn't going to PA?
Like when people started whining about that bullied bus monitor getting $.5 million in donations. You'd have thought she was taking that donated money out of internet commenters' mouths.
Its not extra money, this is their operating capitol for the next year without ad revenue. The kickstarter is literally putting money in the bank for PA to use next year to fund their projects.
Alright dude, let's break this down.
PA needs $n to operate. Let's say that n=x+y, where x=ad revenue and y=everything else (merch and such). Their goal is to replace $x of ad revenue with $x of community support.
So where is this "extra money" of yours?
Im sure we could agree that there are a million better other uses for the money, but that's not for any of us to deciede. People can spend their cash where they want to.
I have more of an issue with a company that provides a product, then ask people to pay for that product, if they want to, and will continue to provide that same product regardless. Most of the time the public would tell that company to go hump themselves, but in this case, people seem to be running to their wallets for no apparent reason.
I can see a corrilation to TV evangelists and retired ladies social security checks.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Website with ads =/= website without ads.
The whole point of the project is to find out whether people value "website without ads" enough to pay to support it.
Okay. But I didn't pay. And I won't pay. So I guess you are just wrong?
Many of those critics have some other reason to dislike PA and channel it into that argument because they want the KS taken down.
Exactly. If this was a Kickstarter for another P-A game that they would not be able to fund otherwise, I could understand this. As is, I don't. It's a facetious use of the Kickstarter idea.
Hello pointless false equivelence and appeal to emotion. Look you don't think people should give PA money, thats your opinion, other people feel differently. That they feel this different means you'll reap a benefit you didn't pay for, and have no obligation to pay for, but you will still benefit all the same. Welcome to the new business model for PA, you're welcome from those of us paying for it.
This statement doesn't become less true when you refuse to address it.