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The American Presidency: The Once and Future Elections Thread

2456799

Posts

  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It feels like the pace of these threads is picking up. I used to be able to follow these more or less as long as I skimmed/skipped the pissing contests and uninteresting tangents, but damn, it's like a dozen pages a day now. I just don't have that much time, internet!

    It's funny working for all rich people, and hearing them bitch constantly about Obama for stupid or untrue reasons. One guy took me aside and was telling me how he wished someone would put a bullet in Obama. And this guy isn't crazy at all normally! He's a really smart successful guy! And he was talking 'bout murder!

    Um, wow.

    Jesus Christ that's some Grade A USDA Prime Choice Stupid.

    Like, even ignoring the fact that that's insane, can you imagine what the first black president getting assassinated would do to this country?

    Jesus, people.
    This is exactly where the GOP rhetoric leads to though. They're talking about fucking violence, murder and revolution (killing darkie) because hating gays is not ok anymore and the rich can't exploit the poor anymore, and that's SOCIALISM.
    It is so dangerous. They're stuffing America full of powder kegs, handing everyone matches and then they blame the other guy.

    What's the term for destroying your own country out of greed? Is there a term for it?

    sc.jpgsc.jpg
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Objectivism.

    Also, if you believe Jared Diamond, quite a lot of societies throughout history have done it.

    enlightenedbum on
    Lose: to suffer defeat, to misplace (Ex: "I hope I don't lose the match." "Did you lose your phone again?")
    Loose: about to slip, to release (Ex: "That knot is loose." "Loose arrows.")
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Then obviously we need global measures put in place against it.

    sc.jpgsc.jpg
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It feels like the pace of these threads is picking up. I used to be able to follow these more or less as long as I skimmed/skipped the pissing contests and uninteresting tangents, but damn, it's like a dozen pages a day now. I just don't have that much time, internet!

    It's funny working for all rich people, and hearing them bitch constantly about Obama for stupid or untrue reasons. One guy took me aside and was telling me how he wished someone would put a bullet in Obama. And this guy isn't crazy at all normally! He's a really smart successful guy! And he was talking 'bout murder!

    Um, wow.

    Jesus Christ that's some Grade A USDA Prime Choice Stupid.

    Like, even ignoring the fact that that's insane, can you imagine what the first black president getting assassinated would do to this country?

    Jesus, people.
    This is exactly where the GOP rhetoric leads to though. They're talking about fucking violence, murder and revolution (killing darkie) because hating gays is not ok anymore and the rich can't exploit the poor anymore, and that's SOCIALISM.
    It is so dangerous. They're stuffing America full of powder kegs, handing everyone matches and then they blame the other guy.

    What's the term for destroying your own country out of greed? Is there a term for it?
    I unfriended a guy on facebook when I saw him resharing image macros from American Revolution 2012. Out of some kind of masochism I actually visited the page and found this one.
    Linking it because I don't want to pollute your browser with it without your consent. Didn't even wanna put it in my photobucket.

    steam_sig.png
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    I'm still amazed so much has been made of the horse thing. It's sad to do a google news feed search and see how many conservative blogs pop up where they're happy that they beat the dems back on it. Okay grats they got the dems to pull the ad, it's still not going to help them win in the fall and they can't really make hay out of it either. Wanting a 77000 dollar tax write off for an animal that most Americans can't afford would be a terrible thing for Romney to use, by which he should totally follow SFKM's suggestion and ride to events on it.

    "I don't really watch the Olympics, but I do own one of the competitors."

    Another successful post, thanks to the power of Spacestar Ordering™!
  • override367override367 misogynist/MRA/socially irresponsible Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    The horse has its own employees

    It's a job creator

    override367 on
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  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It feels like the pace of these threads is picking up. I used to be able to follow these more or less as long as I skimmed/skipped the pissing contests and uninteresting tangents, but damn, it's like a dozen pages a day now. I just don't have that much time, internet!

    It's funny working for all rich people, and hearing them bitch constantly about Obama for stupid or untrue reasons. One guy took me aside and was telling me how he wished someone would put a bullet in Obama. And this guy isn't crazy at all normally! He's a really smart successful guy! And he was talking 'bout murder!

    Um, wow.

    Jesus Christ that's some Grade A USDA Prime Choice Stupid.

    Like, even ignoring the fact that that's insane, can you imagine what the first black president getting assassinated would do to this country?

    Jesus, people.
    This is exactly where the GOP rhetoric leads to though. They're talking about fucking violence, murder and revolution (killing darkie) because hating gays is not ok anymore and the rich can't exploit the poor anymore, and that's SOCIALISM.
    It is so dangerous. They're stuffing America full of powder kegs, handing everyone matches and then they blame the other guy.

    What's the term for destroying your own country out of greed hate? Is there a term for it?

    Nazi Germany.

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It feels like the pace of these threads is picking up. I used to be able to follow these more or less as long as I skimmed/skipped the pissing contests and uninteresting tangents, but damn, it's like a dozen pages a day now. I just don't have that much time, internet!

    It's funny working for all rich people, and hearing them bitch constantly about Obama for stupid or untrue reasons. One guy took me aside and was telling me how he wished someone would put a bullet in Obama. And this guy isn't crazy at all normally! He's a really smart successful guy! And he was talking 'bout murder!

    Um, wow.

    Jesus Christ that's some Grade A USDA Prime Choice Stupid.

    Like, even ignoring the fact that that's insane, can you imagine what the first black president getting assassinated would do to this country?

    Jesus, people.
    This is exactly where the GOP rhetoric leads to though. They're talking about fucking violence, murder and revolution (killing darkie) because hating gays is not ok anymore and the rich can't exploit the poor anymore, and that's SOCIALISM.
    It is so dangerous. They're stuffing America full of powder kegs, handing everyone matches and then they blame the other guy.

    What's the term for destroying your own country out of greed? Is there a term for it?

    War profiteering.

  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It feels like the pace of these threads is picking up. I used to be able to follow these more or less as long as I skimmed/skipped the pissing contests and uninteresting tangents, but damn, it's like a dozen pages a day now. I just don't have that much time, internet!

    It's funny working for all rich people, and hearing them bitch constantly about Obama for stupid or untrue reasons. One guy took me aside and was telling me how he wished someone would put a bullet in Obama. And this guy isn't crazy at all normally! He's a really smart successful guy! And he was talking 'bout murder!

    Um, wow.

    Jesus Christ that's some Grade A USDA Prime Choice Stupid.

    Like, even ignoring the fact that that's insane, can you imagine what the first black president getting assassinated would do to this country?

    Jesus, people.
    This is exactly where the GOP rhetoric leads to though. They're talking about fucking violence, murder and revolution (killing darkie) because hating gays is not ok anymore and the rich can't exploit the poor anymore, and that's SOCIALISM.
    It is so dangerous. They're stuffing America full of powder kegs, handing everyone matches and then they blame the other guy.

    What's the term for destroying your own country out of greed? Is there a term for it?
    I unfriended a guy on facebook when I saw him resharing image macros from American Revolution 2012. Out of some kind of masochism I actually visited the page and found this one.
    Linking it because I don't want to pollute your browser with it without your consent. Didn't even wanna put it in my photobucket.

    Jesus. I feel like I'm about to get investigated by the secret service just looking at that picture. It's worse that the guy holding the rifle looks like a white, blond, blue eyed male.

    3DS: 5043-2471-1061
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  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    I wonder if having an upper class of the rich is actually worse than having an upper class of the nobility. I imagine that with nobility, there was always a chance at least that you would piss off the king or queen and get your stuff taken away. Once a family is rich though, it's really hard for me to imagine a situation where they ever end up going back to even middle class.

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Scooter wrote: »
    I wonder if having an upper class of the rich is actually worse than having an upper class of the nobility. I imagine that with nobility, there was always a chance at least that you would piss off the king or queen and get your stuff taken away. Once a family is rich though, it's really hard for me to imagine a situation where they ever end up going back to even middle class.

    Not really. In the olden days Nobility had enshrined privileges and authority. Like the ability to enforce the law. The local baron wasn't just the landlord, he was also the local judge and the local taxman. Good times indeed.

    Want to take your chances with Judge Romney?

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Pff, taxman Romney.

  • AtomikaAtomika Merry Christmas your arse I pray God it's our lastRegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It feels like the pace of these threads is picking up. I used to be able to follow these more or less as long as I skimmed/skipped the pissing contests and uninteresting tangents, but damn, it's like a dozen pages a day now. I just don't have that much time, internet!

    It's funny working for all rich people, and hearing them bitch constantly about Obama for stupid or untrue reasons. One guy took me aside and was telling me how he wished someone would put a bullet in Obama. And this guy isn't crazy at all normally! He's a really smart successful guy! And he was talking 'bout murder!

    Um, wow.

    After the ACA congressional vote, I had a coworker say to me, "I heard about all those Democrat congressmen getting death threats against themselves and their families after they voted for Obamacare. If they had been smart, those folks would have threatened their families BEFORE the vote. They shoulda had to choose between Obamacare and the lives of their loved ones."


    Yes, that's right. This coworker suggested a campaign of fear and violent terrorism to prevent the passage of healthcare reform.

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    My dipshit uncle just sent me Angry Black Man. I told him the story of how Walt Disney really got his wealth from the government to make Disneyland and how Angry Black Man did not teach himself how to read in a cave at age 4.

    steam_sig.png
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    So many people got rich from WWII. Best stimulus package ever. Shame it had to be spent on economically useless stuff.

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning (poster is a bear)Registered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited July 2012
    Nazi killin' has a high social utility factor.

    Anybody know if there is a way to get fivethirtyeight without going through NYTimes' pay wall?

    Tiger Burning on
    “You could tell by the way he talked, though, that he had gone to school a long time. That was probably what was wrong with him.”
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Couscous wrote: »
    So many people got rich from WWII. Best stimulus package ever. Shame it had to be spent on economically useless stuff.

    I still use those videos as an example of what America needs more of. Something, anything to educate grown men and women on why taxes exist and how they build roads and schools and win wars. That's how bad the ignorance is in this country. This one for example, I watched in, like, middle school.


    Moneeeeeyyy has to ciiiiircuuuulaaaaate*

    *And not trickle down, up, or any direction. Money is not supposed to trickle.

    Cantido on
    steam_sig.png
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    It feels like the pace of these threads is picking up. I used to be able to follow these more or less as long as I skimmed/skipped the pissing contests and uninteresting tangents, but damn, it's like a dozen pages a day now. I just don't have that much time, internet!

    It's funny working for all rich people, and hearing them bitch constantly about Obama for stupid or untrue reasons. One guy took me aside and was telling me how he wished someone would put a bullet in Obama. And this guy isn't crazy at all normally! He's a really smart successful guy! And he was talking 'bout murder!

    Um, wow.

    After the ACA congressional vote, I had a coworker say to me, "I heard about all those Democrat congressmen getting death threats against themselves and their families after they voted for Obamacare. If they had been smart, those folks would have threatened their families BEFORE the vote. They shoulda had to choose between Obamacare and the lives of their loved ones."


    Yes, that's right. This coworker suggested a campaign of fear and violent terrorism to prevent the passage of healthcare reform.

    Well, technically he only suggested that their already existing campaign of fear and violent terrorism could have been timed better so as to be more effective.......

    And with the state of political discourse as it is now... I guess I'll take that as a positive.

    Furthermore, I have a nagging feeling that people will get tired of hearing about Romney's tax returns sooner rather than later and all of the sudden it will be "Obama just keeps nagging about Romney's tax returns! What is he? The Nagger in Chief!?" with requisite amounts of snickering and beaming pride at how cleverly racist they can be.

    Psn:wazukki
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    Nazi killin' has a high social utility factor.

    Anybody know if there is a way to get fivethirtyeight without going through NYTimes' pay wall?

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ should work?

    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning (poster is a bear)Registered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited July 2012
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Nazi killin' has a high social utility factor.

    Anybody know if there is a way to get fivethirtyeight without going through NYTimes' pay wall?

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ should work?

    By Jove, it seems to. I could have sworn it triggered the pay wall.

    Thanks.

    edit: Ah. I can read the blog main page, but not the articles themselves. Better than nothing though!

    Tiger Burning on
    “You could tell by the way he talked, though, that he had gone to school a long time. That was probably what was wrong with him.”
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    So many people got rich from WWII. Best stimulus package ever. Shame it had to be spent on economically useless stuff.

    The direct spending may have, but in a lot of areas it left upgraded factories full of employees and with coffers stuffed with all kinds of money, surrounded by communities where many families had recently had two incomes and a lot of soldiers were coming home burdened with pent up pay. And that's not economically useless.

    The problem is, it'll never, ever happen again. Proportional to every other military in the world, the US is heavily outspending what it did in WWII, but the actual products are being made by very few companies. Any expansion in military spending means those companies get richer. I don't think it's physically possible in the constraints of this planet to expand our military to the point that anyone with a factory can start making military hardware.

  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Nazi killin' has a high social utility factor.

    Anybody know if there is a way to get fivethirtyeight without going through NYTimes' pay wall?

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ should work?

    By Jove, it seems to. I could have sworn it triggered the pay wall.

    Thanks.

    edit: Ah. I can read the blog main page, but not the articles themselves. Better than nothing though!

    Weird... I can click the article titles and read them just fine. Maybe older ones you can't though?

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning (poster is a bear)Registered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Nazi killin' has a high social utility factor.

    Anybody know if there is a way to get fivethirtyeight without going through NYTimes' pay wall?

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ should work?

    By Jove, it seems to. I could have sworn it triggered the pay wall.

    Thanks.

    edit: Ah. I can read the blog main page, but not the articles themselves. Better than nothing though!

    Weird... I can click the article titles and read them just fine. Maybe older ones you can't though?

    You get 10 free nytimes articles a month before it locks you out. I typically go through them in the first 3 or 4 days of each month. I should probably just man up and subscribe, but the internet is supposed to be freeeee..

    “You could tell by the way he talked, though, that he had gone to school a long time. That was probably what was wrong with him.”
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Whatever gave you that idea?

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    You can Usually get around the pay wall by google nytimes+the headline. IIRC the pay wall doesn't kick in for some linked articles, but will kick in if you're browsing around nytimes.com.

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Well that depends on what definition you use to base your concept of 'the interneWAIT NO PUT DOWN THE PITCHFORKS!

    But seriously, imagine if Obama had only released 1 year of returns. The GOP would've been all over him like a bloodhound on the trail.

    sigthree.png
  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    The paywall doesn't kick in for articles linked correctly. I guess it's so you can discuss something without having half the people going "sorry, can't read it".

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/19/july-19-better-numbers-for-romney-in-virginia/?r=1

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I just have to say, before the thread ends, it is really quite awesome having @spacekungfuman around.

    Given your knowledge of the byzantine structure of our tax system, what would you estimate Romney's effective tax rate to be? In the one return he released it was pretty grotesquely low considering just how freaking rich he is. How likely is it that his tax rate is in the teens? Single digits? Negative? If you know specifically I would ask you not to tell us because that would be horribly unethical and a risky thing to put ANYWHERE on the internet.

    Would it be reasonable to assume that Romney's one released year was a test balloon to see how well his low percentage goes over with the populace, so that if it wasn't noticed he could release another year with a slightly lower percentage until he reached a point where people reacted too strongly negative to the amount of tax he (hadn't) paid?

    In response to the question @taramoor had in the prior thread, Romney's tax rate will almost certainly be around or lower than the capital gains rate applicable to any taxable year, since the majority of his income comes in the form of partnership distributions characterized as long term gain. He would never have much in the way of wage income taxable at ordinary rates, since PE companies collect their fees through carried interest which is taxed as capital gains. Prior to the bush tax cuts equalizing dividend and long term capital gains rates (something I think is good as a policy matter, since it removes the "penalty" ordinary investors who prefer good income stocks like IBM or GE faced relative to the investment class who can afford to take risks on growth companies), Romney would have faced a higher tax rate on his corporate dividend income, but the nature of PE investments as growth vehicles means that his dividend income was most likely generally low, unless one of the companies executed a dividend recapitalization (basically a means of taking your original investment plus profits out of a company without selling it).

    I can't hazard an exact guess at his tax rates in prior years, but his rate was probably considerably higher prior to the reduction in capital gains rates as part of the Bush tax cuts. That said, with a portfolio like Romney's you have a lot of control over the timing of taxation, and so I would expect that smart decisions about when to sell loss assets would have kept his effective rate well below the capital gains rate. With our current historically low rates, there is actually somewhat less incentive to sell loss assets just to offset gains, if you have any hope that the assets may appreciate, or fear that rates may rise again.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !
  • EvigilantEvigilant VARegistered User regular
    I really hope that my State, Virginia, does not disappoint come election time. I feel that if Obama wins the State and Presidency and Kaine wins Webb's senate seat, then we can eventually out Cantor and McDonnell whom I consider to be cancer for VA.

    Google+ Profile XBL\PSN\Steam\Origin: Evigilant
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    I can't hazard an exact guess at his tax rates in prior years, but his rate was probably considerably higher prior to the reduction in capital gains rates as part of the Bush tax cuts.

    Of course. That's why he doesn't want to release them. It isn't just that he'll have an absurdly low effective tax rate in the low teens or maybe even high singles for some years. It's that coupled with the fact that under Clinton rates he may have been paying in the 20s. If you put that information before the voters right before an election that will have letting the Bush tax cuts expire as one of its central topics, voters may wake up.

    I'm now convinced that's what he's "hiding." Not just his low rate, but the higher rate he used to pay. How didn't I see that before?

    If he does release, expect the returns to conveniently start in tax year 2003.

    enc0re on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    They pulled the horse ad? :( Just when I thought the Dems were done being pansies for now.

    ed
    @enlightenedbum
    Also can we re-label the thread to include [Elections] or something to avoid confusion with the Obama Administration discussion thread? We know how General Politics threads end up

    PantsB on
    11793-1.png
    Spoiler:
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    They pulled the horse ad? :( Just when I thought the Dems were done being pansies for now.

    ed
    @enlightenedbum
    Also can we re-label the thread to include [Elections] or something to avoid confusion with the Obama Administration discussion thread? We know how General Politics threads end up

    I finally saw the ad showing Romney singing and I have to say that it did come across as more of an attack on Romney's singing than his policies. Maybe if it was on mute, it would come across the other way.

  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    enc0re wrote: »
    I can't hazard an exact guess at his tax rates in prior years, but his rate was probably considerably higher prior to the reduction in capital gains rates as part of the Bush tax cuts.

    Of course. That's why he doesn't want to release them. It isn't just that he'll have an absurdly low effective tax rate in the low teens or maybe even high singles for some years. It's that coupled with the fact that under Clinton rates he may have been paying in the 20s. If you put that information before the voters right before an election that will have letting the Bush tax cuts expire as one of its central topics, voters may wake up.

    I'm now convinced that's what he's "hiding." Not just his low rate, but the higher rate he used to pay. How didn't I see that before?

    If he does release, expect the returns to conveniently start in tax year 2003.

    He'd have to release 12 or more to get back to the Clinton years, right? This wouldn't be anywhere near as much of an issue if he released half of that, so I don't see how it could be his primary motivation.
    Forar wrote: »
    Well that depends on what definition you use to base your concept of 'the interneWAIT NO PUT DOWN THE PITCHFORKS!

    But seriously, imagine if Obama had only released 1 year of returns. The GOP would've been all over him like a bloodhound on the trail.

    Not that hypocrisy would necessarily stop them. Exibit A: Bundlers.

    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    Neal Stephenson
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    The Obama campaign has made such a big deal out of 1999-2001 that if he doesn't reveal THOSE taxes it will look like a dodge.

    So yeah, prove to us that you weren't working for Bain; give us those years, showing you only got your retainer, and not some ridiculous bonus structure or something.

    Show us your taxes in 1999 and 2005; I would love to see the difference.

  • Niceguy MyeyeNiceguy Myeye Registered User regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Nazi killin' has a high social utility factor.

    Anybody know if there is a way to get fivethirtyeight without going through NYTimes' pay wall?

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ should work?

    By Jove, it seems to. I could have sworn it triggered the pay wall.

    Thanks.

    edit: Ah. I can read the blog main page, but not the articles themselves. Better than nothing though!

    Weird... I can click the article titles and read them just fine. Maybe older ones you can't though?

    You get 10 free nytimes articles a month before it locks you out. I typically go through them in the first 3 or 4 days of each month. I should probably just man up and subscribe, but the internet is supposed to be freeeee..

    To get through the NYT Paywall, just delete everything in the URL past html

    To make it topical, on the URL
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/krugman-pathos-of-the-plutocrat.html?_r=1&smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

    Just shorten it to

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/krugman-pathos-of-the-plutocrat.html

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    The Obama campaign has made such a big deal out of 1999-2001 that if he doesn't reveal THOSE taxes it will look like a dodge.

    So yeah, prove to us that you weren't working for Bain; give us those years, showing you only got your retainer, and not some ridiculous bonus structure or something.

    Show us your taxes in 1999 and 2005; I would love to see the difference.

    You probably can't tell if he really worked for Bain based on his tax returns, because he probably doesn't get and W-2's. As a partner in the partnerships that constitute Bain, he receives a K-1 which reports income in respect of being a partner. Since no one is contending that he ever gave up his interest in Bain (he still has an interest) he reports on his returns will look the same then as they do today.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Tarantio wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    I can't hazard an exact guess at his tax rates in prior years, but his rate was probably considerably higher prior to the reduction in capital gains rates as part of the Bush tax cuts.

    Of course. That's why he doesn't want to release them. It isn't just that he'll have an absurdly low effective tax rate in the low teens or maybe even high singles for some years. It's that coupled with the fact that under Clinton rates he may have been paying in the 20s. If you put that information before the voters right before an election that will have letting the Bush tax cuts expire as one of its central topics, voters may wake up.

    I'm now convinced that's what he's "hiding." Not just his low rate, but the higher rate he used to pay. How didn't I see that before?

    If he does release, expect the returns to conveniently start in tax year 2003.

    He'd have to release 12 or more to get back to the Clinton years, right? This wouldn't be anywhere near as much of an issue if he released half of that, so I don't see how it could be his primary motivation.
    Forar wrote: »
    Well that depends on what definition you use to base your concept of 'the interneWAIT NO PUT DOWN THE PITCHFORKS!

    But seriously, imagine if Obama had only released 1 year of returns. The GOP would've been all over him like a bloodhound on the trail.

    Not that hypocrisy would necessarily stop them. Exibit A: Bundlers.
    Along enc0re's thinking, it's possible he paid even less under Obama than Bush - whether by policy or simple circumstance may not really matter to people after the constant refrain of class warfare and jealousy.

    But... I don't think just having paid less under Bush really justifies his whole arm flailing resistance, considering his whole argument is that the rich SHOULD be paying less, and he's never been ashamed to say so. There has to be something more. Doesn't have to be something criminal, per se. Could be simply embarrassing (tax shelters), or reveal a harmless lie (he only tithed 5%), or maybe something big that our poor minds that don't grasp the immense complexities of private equity will think looks really bad but is really perfectly normal.

    Hevach on
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    The Obama campaign has made such a big deal out of 1999-2001 that if he doesn't reveal THOSE taxes it will look like a dodge.

    So yeah, prove to us that you weren't working for Bain; give us those years, showing you only got your retainer, and not some ridiculous bonus structure or something.

    Show us your taxes in 1999 and 2005; I would love to see the difference.

    You probably can't tell if he really worked for Bain based on his tax returns, because he probably doesn't get and W-2's. As a partner in the partnerships that constitute Bain, he receives a K-1 which reports income in respect of being a partner. Since no one is contending that he ever gave up his interest in Bain (he still has an interest) he reports on his returns will look the same then as they do today.

    So.... how does he pay taxes on the bonuses and capital gains and whatnot?

    Shouldn't those taxes be filed with the IRS?

    I understand he is a fabulously wealthy guy. We aren't asking for his 1040-EZ here; we are asking for his TAXES.

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning (poster is a bear)Registered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Nazi killin' has a high social utility factor.

    Anybody know if there is a way to get fivethirtyeight without going through NYTimes' pay wall?

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ should work?

    By Jove, it seems to. I could have sworn it triggered the pay wall.

    Thanks.

    edit: Ah. I can read the blog main page, but not the articles themselves. Better than nothing though!

    Weird... I can click the article titles and read them just fine. Maybe older ones you can't though?

    You get 10 free nytimes articles a month before it locks you out. I typically go through them in the first 3 or 4 days of each month. I should probably just man up and subscribe, but the internet is supposed to be freeeee..

    To get through the NYT Paywall, just delete everything in the URL past html

    To make it topical, on the URL
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/krugman-pathos-of-the-plutocrat.html?_r=1&smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

    Just shorten it to

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/krugman-pathos-of-the-plutocrat.html

    Well then. That's so easy I feel dirty doing it.

    “You could tell by the way he talked, though, that he had gone to school a long time. That was probably what was wrong with him.”
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    The Obama campaign has made such a big deal out of 1999-2001 that if he doesn't reveal THOSE taxes it will look like a dodge.

    So yeah, prove to us that you weren't working for Bain; give us those years, showing you only got your retainer, and not some ridiculous bonus structure or something.

    Show us your taxes in 1999 and 2005; I would love to see the difference.

    You probably can't tell if he really worked for Bain based on his tax returns, because he probably doesn't get and W-2's. As a partner in the partnerships that constitute Bain, he receives a K-1 which reports income in respect of being a partner. Since no one is contending that he ever gave up his interest in Bain (he still has an interest) he reports on his returns will look the same then as they do today.

    I thought while he was gone he was supposed to be making a flat $100k salary from Bain. I figure that would show up as a more traditional form of income. Silly me though, that would mean he'd be getting taxed at a normal rate, and I'm sure Romney/Bain wouldn't make him go through such an ordeal.

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