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[Wag the dog parenting] - Or, why Buckyballs are not a snack food.

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Posts

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    There are at least two issues here:

    1. The belief that we can essentially legislate away anything dangerous.
    2. Parents who don't understand the concept of taking personal responsibility

    There are at least two other issues here:

    1) The concept that parents are omnipotent and omniscient, and thus must shoulder the full burden of responsibility for anything their child does since they obviously should have been able to stop that child 100% of the time.

    2) Issue #1 means that companies who release products that pose a known and serious health risk to young children can avoid any and all responsibility for those products.

    If your kid dies, he dies.

  • Nova_CNova_C Sniff Sniff Snorf Beyond The WallRegistered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

  • MentlegenMentlegen Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Lovely wrote: »
    Jesus. That's freakishly horrible Veevee D: .

    It's all fun and games until 3 joints give out at once

    For some reason my brain processed that as an anti-drug statement.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    And yet we have products out that kill far more children through misuse by adults.

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    better stop selling headphones to kids because if they pry them open and harvest the magnets they could die.

  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Since 2009, there have been at least a dozen ingestions of the magnets in Buckyballs toys.

    Wow...a whole dozen. More kids are hurt or killed by drowning in swimming pools each year. Why don't they go try and ban swimming pools first.

    Edit:
    In fact, there was an average of 3,533 child drownings per year between 2005 and 2009. Who will stop these vicious child eating pools?

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive Damn these electric sex pants! Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    better stop selling headphones to kids because if they pry them open and harvest the magnets they could die.

    I'm now imagining headphones with magnets so strong they burrow into the ears and meet in the middle of the skull.

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  • AiouaAioua Novus Ordo Seclorum Lord of the ForumRegistered User regular
    I dunno. I mean, you gotta compare values here. Is having small rare-earth magnets available as a toy option for the adult populace more valuable than the very serious dangers they cause if ingested?

    On an individual level, sure, it's asinine to blame the company because your little timmy ate your magnets. You were, in fact, fairly warned of their dangers and it's your job to protect him. (Like I don't think anyone should be able to sue the co. for damages, even if the magnets do get outlawed.)

    But if you're the government regulator you gotta look at how the whole thing effects your people. If your populace is full of stupid people who will eat magnets, and you can prevent some deaths by outlawing strong magnets marketed as toys, then maybe you should.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we got booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    Paragon
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    better stop selling headphones to kids because if they pry them open and harvest the magnets they could die.

    I'm now imagining headphones with magnets so strong they burrow into the ears and meet in the middle of the skull.

    The hazards of headsets for children, right here:

    star%2Bchild%2Bskull

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  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    Since 2009, there have been at least a dozen ingestions of the magnets in Buckyballs toys.

    Wow...a whole dozen. More kids are hurt or killed by drowning in swimming pools each year. Why don't they go try and ban swimming pools first.

    In fact there was an average of 3,533 child drownings per year between 2005 and 2009. Who will stop these vicious child eating pools?

    Well it's technically "at least" a dozen.

    But I agree generally. I don't think it is the responsibility of these companies to do more than make the public aware that ingesting their product may be hazardous to your health. They aren't marketing these things to kids, and parents should make an effort to keep such things away form their kids or inform them of the dangers of them. It is absolutely tragic when something like this happens, but they are fairly isolated incidents and as someone else has pointed out, they make up a very small percentage of the units sold.

    I am not a parent, so feel free to ignore these statements as I do not have any experience regarding small children outside of being the eldest child and dealing with two younger siblings. We did all sorts of stupid things (highlight was my brother skateboarding off the roof and breaking his arm) and while we were certainly idiots, our parents also took responsibility for a lot of the stuff we did and at no point did they ever consider suing large corporations for the stupid things we did.

    There is a huge leap towards a lack of personal responsibility these days, not just in parenting, but in society as a whole and stuff like this is the result of that mentality.

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  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    Aioua wrote: »
    I dunno. I mean, you gotta compare values here. Is having small rare-earth magnets available as a toy option for the adult populace more valuable than the very serious dangers they cause if ingested?

    On an individual level, sure, it's asinine to blame the company because your little timmy ate your magnets. You were, in fact, fairly warned of their dangers and it's your job to protect him. (Like I don't think anyone should be able to sue the co. for damages, even if the magnets do get outlawed.)

    But if you're the government regulator you gotta look at how the whole thing effects your people. If your populace is full of stupid people who will eat magnets, and you can prevent some deaths by outlawing strong magnets marketed as toys, then maybe you should.

    If harm reduction really is the motive then why would you go after something so mildly menacing and rare instead of swimming pools? It's like Bizarro Kennedy - We do things not because they are hard but because they are easy and we can look like we care about public safety.

  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    It's not just "easily swallowed" it's "easily swallowed toy items that can perforate your intestines and cause massive amounts of internal damage"

    And yes, kids eat everything. That's why selling very powerful rare earth magnets in the form of a small, round, candy-like, easily swallowed toy is a pretty bad idea.

    Also, they're not talking about banning "small magnets", they're talking about banning the sale of small, easily swallowed rare earth magnets, which are much more powerful (and thus much more hazardous to swallow) than other magnets.

  • AiouaAioua Novus Ordo Seclorum Lord of the ForumRegistered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    I dunno. I mean, you gotta compare values here. Is having small rare-earth magnets available as a toy option for the adult populace more valuable than the very serious dangers they cause if ingested?

    On an individual level, sure, it's asinine to blame the company because your little timmy ate your magnets. You were, in fact, fairly warned of their dangers and it's your job to protect him. (Like I don't think anyone should be able to sue the co. for damages, even if the magnets do get outlawed.)

    But if you're the government regulator you gotta look at how the whole thing effects your people. If your populace is full of stupid people who will eat magnets, and you can prevent some deaths by outlawing strong magnets marketed as toys, then maybe you should.

    If harm reduction really is the motive then why would you go after something so mildly menacing and rare instead of swimming pools? It's like Bizarro Kennedy - We do things not because they are hard but because they are easy and we can look like we care about public safety.

    Well, yeah. That's pretty much it. Doesn't mean it's a bad decision to outlaw the magnets.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we got booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action Still AwesomeRegistered User regular
    Something tells me that these same parents that want to ban these things are also the same type of people that say "I don't want the gubmint tell me how to raise my kids!"

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  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    I dunno. I mean, you gotta compare values here. Is having small rare-earth magnets available as a toy option for the adult populace more valuable than the very serious dangers they cause if ingested?

    On an individual level, sure, it's asinine to blame the company because your little timmy ate your magnets. You were, in fact, fairly warned of their dangers and it's your job to protect him. (Like I don't think anyone should be able to sue the co. for damages, even if the magnets do get outlawed.)

    But if you're the government regulator you gotta look at how the whole thing effects your people. If your populace is full of stupid people who will eat magnets, and you can prevent some deaths by outlawing strong magnets marketed as toys, then maybe you should.

    If harm reduction really is the motive then why would you go after something so mildly menacing and rare instead of swimming pools? It's like Bizarro Kennedy - We do things not because they are hard but because they are easy and we can look like we care about public safety.

    Because banning the sale of small rare earth magnets as toys is much easier and the balance between "kids being killed" and "nerds wanting a cool novelty toy" is much clearer than the risk/benefit balance involved in swimming pools.

    I'm also not really keen on the issue of children drowning in swimming pools being used as a bludgeon to allow companies to continue to sell unsafe toys. It's not a "one or the other" issue, in the slightest.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Aioua wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    I dunno. I mean, you gotta compare values here. Is having small rare-earth magnets available as a toy option for the adult populace more valuable than the very serious dangers they cause if ingested?

    On an individual level, sure, it's asinine to blame the company because your little timmy ate your magnets. You were, in fact, fairly warned of their dangers and it's your job to protect him. (Like I don't think anyone should be able to sue the co. for damages, even if the magnets do get outlawed.)

    But if you're the government regulator you gotta look at how the whole thing effects your people. If your populace is full of stupid people who will eat magnets, and you can prevent some deaths by outlawing strong magnets marketed as toys, then maybe you should.

    If harm reduction really is the motive then why would you go after something so mildly menacing and rare instead of swimming pools? It's like Bizarro Kennedy - We do things not because they are hard but because they are easy and we can look like we care about public safety.

    Well, yeah. That's pretty much it. Doesn't mean it's a bad decision to outlaw the magnets.

    Oh man, this is going to really put a damper on my old physics professor's magnetism presentations since he used small, swallowable rare earth magnets all the time.

    Veevee on
    steam_sig.png
  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    I was planning on buying some rare earth magnets to embed into some thin wood strips that I could mount to the wall. I would then use this to magnetically hold spice containers up on my wall. So I should be prevented from doing something like this because the parents of 12+ kids out of 300 million people in the US couldn't read warning labels and left these things laying around?

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    It's not just "easily swallowed" it's "easily swallowed toy items that can perforate your intestines and cause massive amounts of internal damage"

    And yes, kids eat everything. That's why selling very powerful rare earth magnets in the form of a small, round, candy-like, easily swallowed toy is a pretty bad idea.

    Also, they're not talking about banning "small magnets", they're talking about banning the sale of small, easily swallowed rare earth magnets, which are much more powerful (and thus much more hazardous to swallow) than other magnets.

    Come on man this is silly, little kids think Antifreeze is juice and far, far more than a dozen kids have died from that and nobody's talking about banning antifreeze

    You can't babyproof the world. There's a warning label on them that swallowing them is harmful.

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  • JuliusJulius Registered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    They are trying to get it across. But yeah, it's not working so maybe they should just be recalled. Or at least regulated more.

  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    It's not just "easily swallowed" it's "easily swallowed toy items that can perforate your intestines and cause massive amounts of internal damage"

    And yes, kids eat everything. That's why selling very powerful rare earth magnets in the form of a small, round, candy-like, easily swallowed toy is a pretty bad idea.

    Also, they're not talking about banning "small magnets", they're talking about banning the sale of small, easily swallowed rare earth magnets, which are much more powerful (and thus much more hazardous to swallow) than other magnets.

    Come on man this is silly, little kids think Antifreeze is juice and far, far more than a dozen kids have died from that and nobody's talking about banning antifreeze

    You can't babyproof the world. There's a warning label on them that swallowing them is harmful.

    Antifreeze isn't sold as a toy.

  • AiouaAioua Novus Ordo Seclorum Lord of the ForumRegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »

    Oh man, this is going to really put a damper on my old physics professor's magnetism presentations since he used small, swallowable rare earth magnets all the time.

    Well, I bet if they were outlawed as toys, you could still get them through other channels. Like, in this instance, through some sort of education/laboratory/industrial supply company.
    I could still legally get my hands on sharpened aluminum spikes even though lawn darts are illegal.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we got booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    It's not just "easily swallowed" it's "easily swallowed toy items that can perforate your intestines and cause massive amounts of internal damage"

    And yes, kids eat everything. That's why selling very powerful rare earth magnets in the form of a small, round, candy-like, easily swallowed toy is a pretty bad idea.

    Also, they're not talking about banning "small magnets", they're talking about banning the sale of small, easily swallowed rare earth magnets, which are much more powerful (and thus much more hazardous to swallow) than other magnets.

    Come on man this is silly, little kids think Antifreeze is juice and far, far more than a dozen kids have died from that and nobody's talking about banning antifreeze

    You can't babyproof the world. There's a warning label on them that swallowing them is harmful.

    Antifreeze isn't sold as a toy.

    Neither is Buckyballs.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
  • JuliusJulius Registered User regular
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    It's not just "easily swallowed" it's "easily swallowed toy items that can perforate your intestines and cause massive amounts of internal damage"

    And yes, kids eat everything. That's why selling very powerful rare earth magnets in the form of a small, round, candy-like, easily swallowed toy is a pretty bad idea.

    Also, they're not talking about banning "small magnets", they're talking about banning the sale of small, easily swallowed rare earth magnets, which are much more powerful (and thus much more hazardous to swallow) than other magnets.

    Come on man this is silly, little kids think Antifreeze is juice and far, far more than a dozen kids have died from that and nobody's talking about banning antifreeze

    You can't babyproof the world. There's a warning label on them that swallowing them is harmful.

    Antifreeze isn't sold as a toy.

    Neither is Buckyballs.

    Not as a children's toy. But still as a toy.

  • pirateluigipirateluigi Registered User regular
    My complaint is with people that say "We can't watch our kids 24 hours a day! They'll find a way to eat one!" Not that it isn't true... it's absolutely true. Kids WILL eat anything they can get into their mouths and you can't watch them non-stop. However, it ignores the incredibly simple logic of: If you have small kids, just don't buy things like this. If I want to keep these on my desk at work, it isn't hurting anyone and there is no chance of a kid eating one since they won't be in my office.

    http://www.danreviewstheworld.com
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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Julius wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    People don't think kids require pretty much your full attention. Kid thus gets into shit. This is not a failing of the company as much as a failing of the parent. Basic shit like "no lead paint" is just common sense, but "Why did you leave dangerous things within reach of an unsupervised child" should fall squarely on the parent.

    This is basically attacking an edge case because people don't really get how dangerous magnets actually are. A case suing for the ban on kitchen knives would be laughed out of court if an unsupervised kid got their hands on one.

    Yeah the problem here is that even if the company puts on a warning people don't seem to realize how dangerous magnets are. They look pretty harmless and hell I've swallowed larger marbles as a kid with no harm so you don't tend to think about what might happen if these magnets are in your intestine and decide to be magnetic with each other paying no mind to whether or not they're in the same part of your intestines.

    Maybe the burden should be on the company that's selling dangerous magnets in the form of shiny, round, easily swallowed balls to take more of an effort to get the danger of ingestion across.

    Or maybe the dangers of ingesting those magnets are severe enough that just maybe shiny, round, easily swallowed powerfully magnetic balls shouldn't be sold as wacky novelty items, even if they're only "marketed" to adults.

    Wellllllll...I get what you're saying, but there are as dangerous if not more dangerous things sold as 'novelty items'.

    Shit, there's a lot of things that will get your kid killed. The description 'easily swallowed' should not mean 'illegal to sell'.

    Kids eat everything. A lot of those things are dangerous. No one expects parents to be perfect, but banning small magnets is extreme. Because, really, unless this is a vendetta against buckyballs specifically, the only legislation that makes sense is to ban any magnet that is small enough to be swallowed.

    Otherwise, this is about the company and not the magnet.

    It's not just "easily swallowed" it's "easily swallowed toy items that can perforate your intestines and cause massive amounts of internal damage"

    And yes, kids eat everything. That's why selling very powerful rare earth magnets in the form of a small, round, candy-like, easily swallowed toy is a pretty bad idea.

    Also, they're not talking about banning "small magnets", they're talking about banning the sale of small, easily swallowed rare earth magnets, which are much more powerful (and thus much more hazardous to swallow) than other magnets.

    Come on man this is silly, little kids think Antifreeze is juice and far, far more than a dozen kids have died from that and nobody's talking about banning antifreeze

    You can't babyproof the world. There's a warning label on them that swallowing them is harmful.

    Antifreeze isn't sold as a toy.

    Neither is Buckyballs.

    Not as a children's toy. But still as a toy.

    Many people see guns as toys, and I've also seen them marketed as toys for adults. Maybe we should ban them too.

    I wonder which kills more kids a year, guns or Buckeyballs....

    Veevee on
    steam_sig.png
  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    Man, this thread is certainly turning into a World's Shittiest Analogy Contest.

    Casually HardcoreParagon
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    The humanity! HOW WILL WE EVER LIVE WITHOUT THESE SMALL NOVELTY RARE EARTH MAGNETS?!?!?!?!

    Why so butt hurt? Is it really so outrageous that people might not have a small fidget toy but a bunch of children* will not be killed or require extensive risky and expensive surgery? Kids swallow shit. This particular product, which serves no real utility except as a novelty toy, poses a high risk of being swallowed and a much higher health risk if swallowed than most things. When warnings didn't work and the company refused to do a recall, the government is now moving to block selling the product.

    They're not even blocking selling "rare earth magnets" they're trying to block selling these particular, very small and candy-looking magnets because they pose a particular risk.

    I mean god damn, is anyone really that invested in a particular fucking desk toy?

    *Again, its not "12" its "12 there were news reports about in the last 2 years." My wife has cared for that many in a post-surgery capacity in the last 4 years and its not a simple surgery or a routine recovery.

    PantsB on
    11793-1.png
    Spoiler:
  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    So wait, adults can't have toys?

    I mean they sell band saws to adults for the purpose of crafting and hobby time, why are buckyballs the exception here? If anything the parents are liable for their own buying habits and leaving shit like that laying around, in an unsupervised way.

    It's no more different than keeping draino below a sink and your kid drinks that shit because you didn't secure the cabinets.

  • Capt HowdyCapt Howdy Registered User regular
    They should also ban them because you can use them to open those shitty plastic boxes stores keep blurays in to keep you from stealing them.

    Not only can these things kill you, they can help you thwart bluray anti-theft devices.

    2 evils, one (magnetic) stone. Boom.

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  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    I just don't see the problem here. If you have small kids, don't buy buckyballs.

    Smrtnik
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    I just don't see the problem here. If you have small kids, don't buy buckyballs.

    True, there's no way children will ever encounter buckyballs if their parents don't buy them.

    11793-1.png
    Spoiler:
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    I'm still waiting for the ban on booze because children die from alcohol interaction (consumption, parent under the influence mistakes child for chimmychanga and microwaves them, drunk drivers)

  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    Please tell me that microwave thing is just kidding around.

  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    Apparently one of the unadvertised uses for Buckyballs is to construct the slipperiest slope in the universe, since banning an unsafe toy now means that swimming pools, guns, booze, antifreeze, and power tools will be banned as well.

    Because that's what happened all the previous times unsafe toys were banned.

  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    100000 kids under 14 (80% under 4) go to the emergency room every year for poisoning with about 30 deaths. 60 percent for chemicals, 40 percent for drugs. We don't ban cleaning supplies and medications, we tell people to keep them out of the reach of children. Why is this case different? These things are not inherently dangerous, only when misused. As most things are. And they're not even banning the sale of all of these things, they're only going after a single company that sells them.

    It's not this particular product I'm concerned about. This type of thinking is a slippery slope.

    In the U.S. at least fifty children are being backed over by vehicles every week. Forty-eight are treated in hospital emergency rooms and at least two children are fatally injured every week. Ban cars I say.

    SiliconStew on
    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    Smrtnik
  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    I just don't see the problem here. If you have small kids, don't buy buckyballs.

    True, there's no way children will ever encounter buckyballs if their parents don't buy them.

    The likelihood is amazingly tiny.

    How often do you see kids at another person's house unattended? Honestly, though, it is no more dangerous than antifreeze, and hey that tastes a bit sweet, just like juice!

    Let's over legalize stupid nonsense like this and waste our time more.

  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    It's perfectly safe if operated according to instructions. Calling it an "unsafe toy" while referencing using it for things well outside of it's intended operation, well...

    What can't inflict grissly damage on people if you completely ignore the labels?

    -This message was deviously brought to you by:
  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    100000 kids under 14 (80% under 4) go to the emergency room every year for poisoning with about 30 deaths. 60 percent for chemicals, 40 percent for drugs. We don't ban cleaning supplies and medications, we tell people to keep them out of the reach of children. Why is this case different? These things are not inherently dangerous, only when misused. As most things are. And they're not even banning the sale of all of these things, they're only going after a single company that sells them.

    It's not this particular product I'm concerned about. This type of thinking is a slippery slope.

    So, why didn't the ban on Lawn Darts lead to things like guns, swimming pools, household cleaning products, tools, and so on being banned?

  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Lawndart wrote: »
    Apparently one of the unadvertised uses for Buckyballs is to construct the slipperiest slope in the universe, since banning an unsafe toy now means that swimming pools, guns, booze, antifreeze, and power tools will be banned as well.

    Because that's what happened all the previous times unsafe toys were banned.

    It's not a slippery slope. I'm not fretting over possible outcomes of this or concern trolling. I don't think this will lead to big things being banned. This is merely another brick in the wall of protecting children from things in a hamfisted manner.

    I think I stated why stupid shit like magnets gets attention despite the minuscule harm it causes while other things that cause much more harm get a free pass. We're a nation of wussies who tackle easy things despite their near irrelevancy to the daily life of humans. We would rather ban something piddly like magnets than just tell parents to use better judgement when purchasing items because we fundamentally don't trust people to exercise judgement and risk the possibility of catastrophe. And that is really the depressing part.

    mrt144 on
    Smrtnik
  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    Lawndart, I am tickled by the fact that the person named after the most unsafe toy ever is arguing to ban toys.

    Thank you for adding a bit of a laugh to my afternoon.

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