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I guess I don't see the reluctance to just point at them, and going "see, they're doing it right, be more like them". It's not like you have to do all or nothing.
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The argument isn't that those things don't exist. It's that if you're trying to have a "no true scotsman" argument, the guys who aren't Christians? They're not the Catholics and Baptists. The Catholics and Baptists are the Christians. Everyone else is deviating from the Christian norm.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Religions do get updated with the times every so often. I think it's time to update this one.
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"Changing the wrong Christians minds" is a good definition for half the wars in Europe.
But this whole argument is pretty stupid because "Christian" is such a broad term but you people act like it's a fucking club or something. The Catholic Church has shit all effect on the Mormon Church for instance. "Christians" is not any sort of group with control over all parts of tiself.
It's like saying "Some right-handed people are giving right-handed people a bad name. You right-handed people should do something about that."
It doesn't make the least bit of sense.
That's just the lefties propaganda. Everybody knows righties are a persecuted minority. Once they get their left-handed ways, righties will be forced to use their left hands.
Data indicates that kids of left-handed parents are more likely to be left-handed, and have a higher divorce rate. Also, they're worse at using scissors and at BF3.
Edit: God, Jesus and Reagan were right-handed. Luci, Stalin and Hitler were left-handed.
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o_O
There are, what? 1.6 billion Christians in the world?
Of course it does. The best change comes from within. Yeah, we as lgbt can rail at the Old Testament Christians who are hateful asses but that's not going to do as much as New Testament Christians changing things from the inside by challenging their long held hatreds.
It is those that use Christianity as a weapon to drive heinous actions and policy.
It is religious grounds that families disown the gay, they don't do it for shits and giggles. They fear for their own and/or the gay, that their faith is threatened and their soul at risk.
Real Christians. Not "bad Christians" that you can easily write off. How can they be bad Christians if the only thing you are faulting them on is their treatment of people in accordance with the tenets pushed by their faith?
Many many people use Christianity for heinous shit, and that doesn't make them "not Christians" just because people don't want to tackle the issue.
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And unless we keep up the pressure, those NT Christians won't feel the pressure to enact that change.
The thread is in God's hands now.
What are the 999,999 other steps to being a Christian?
I think you're misinterpreting my point about what it takes to be a Christian, which is that being a Christian says pretty much nothing else about what you do as a person, unless you explicitly point out that you're doing X because "the Bible says so". Which brings me to my other point, about the Bible being a moral mirror.
Step 2: Don't be a dick.
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While that's certainly something Jesus preached, it's not required that you be a nice person to be a Christian. I'm not talking about what sort of guidelines people are supposed to follow to be "a good Christian", I'm talking strict definitions here. A true Scotsman comes from Scotland; it doesn't matter if he puts sugar in his porridge, if he's a dick, or if he's a teetotaler. Some of those things might make people consider him to not be much of a Scotsman, but a Scotsman he would be nonetheless.
It's just as ridiculous to say all christians are responsible for the actions of all other christians.
Basically you're all being geese.
Now I would like to see my religion start treating the asshats like asshats and marginalizing them more, but the asshats still get to call themselves Christians.
And said to break off all contact with anyone who disagrees with you or doesn't follow your faith.
Well, I said it mostly as a joke, but I do think there's more to being a Christian than just believing in Christ. I'd guess it should also include the end goal of getting into heaven, which has rules.
If you define it as just belief, then you're going to be Christian, Jew, Satanist and Republican.
But yes, as AMFE said, it's not my place to define Christianity, since I actually have no stake in it. But I was basically trying to argue his 2nd point.
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Tube's?
The "he who is without sin, may cast the first stone" passage is an interpolation - the older, non-Byzantine texts do not include the story of Jesus and the adulteress.
It's one of the few times Conservative Christians approve of source/form/higher criticism. They ignore it because it means they can be jerks while maintaining their conceit that their every word/thought/deed is "Bible-Based".
SODOMISE INTOLERANCE
Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
That said, I also don't think there's a good yardstick at all - though it seems perverse to grant that "a Christian is someone who identifies as such" is a meaningful metric as well!
SODOMISE INTOLERANCE
Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
Warped it from what? What would you say are the true tenants of Christianity and what do you think militates between alternative conceptions and interpretations?
Because this is a non-trivial problem.
SODOMISE INTOLERANCE
Tide goes in. Tide goes out.
Meh, its still a popular story and the church that was actively mobbing and beating two homosexual men most likely understand the meaning of and subscribe to the story being biblical, so I think the viewpoint there still stands.
I guess I should make it clear to that I wasn't arguing the people doing this cannot be called Christians, they most definitely are. Do I think they are good Christians? No, but then you get into the fun thing of what to describe Christianity as and who is good and bad and we get into interpretation and viewpoints again.
The last thing I want to say on the subject matter is I don't think its fair to decry Christians as not doing anything, and then when its pointed out that their are large denominations that are actively changing their views on gay rights and becoming more LGBT friendly, to dismiss or ignore them. They are trying to change people's mindsets, starting with their own congregations and moving outward. It is a slow, uphill battle that will be going on for years after gay marriage is finally made legal all over the U.S., but it is something they are fighting and should not be discredited, even if a large percentage of Christian denominations are fundamentalist or asshats about LGBT rights.
I also agree with the poster who said denominations can be like night and day in what they believe, practice, and the interlapping of worshippers. When I still went to church at a Wesleyan Church they were very different in outlook, beliefs, and practices than the Pentecostal Church some of my friends went to and tried to convert me to.
In the end though I don't think we will agree and I feel we're starting to drag the thread off-topic some so I think at this point I'm just going to agree to disagree with people on some of the issue.
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They also make glasses under license for designer labels like Polo, Ralph Lauren, Chanel, and Prada.
That'll be a good way to spot the commercially-conscious bigots - just look for the squinters.
Why is the dad from Heroes holding hands with Captain America from Act 1?
#FreeScheck
#FreeSKFM
The second best thing about this is that the wiki article on no true Scotsman, specifically list religion under its "Mis-attributing the Fallacy" section. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman
The best thing about this is, i get to call this a not true "no true Scotsman".
And I have an issue of Details, a fantastic fashion magazine, which has 3 of those ads, they're all great. I'll try and find more of them.
Ah, here are the other two I saw in the magazine (they aren't, in my opinion, as perfect as the one posted above, but they're still good):
I thought thats the main use of sunglasses in general