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You got [Mass Effect] in my [D&D 4e]!

Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
edited August 2012 in Critical Failures
So some of you guys may have seen the recent discussions about making a Mass Effect -> D&D 4e conversion in the 4e thread, but now we're moving on up to our own thread!

So what's Dungeons and Dragons 4e?
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You can check out the official page/forums here.

What about Mass Effect?
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It's a really cool video game trilogy put out by Bioware set in 2183. Humanity has achieved FTL space travel, and they have become a major player on the galactic stage. You can find their page here.

So what's one got to do with the other?
Plenty of people are fans of both, and I particularly wanted to do a tactical pen'n'paper game of Mass Effect after playing the multiplayer mode in Mass Effect 3 (Lord Palington on the XBox 360, if you want to throw down some games!), and I think D&D 4e is one of the best tactical roleplaying systems out there (that I've played, anyway). I've found a couple of versions out there on the internet, but they are mostly incomplete, with little thought given to balance (one, for instance, had an Asari racial ability giving +2 to attack and damage with all biotic attacks, which is way above what any official 4e race gets).

But don't worry, I'm not alone in this galaxy! Others in the 4e thread were quick to give suggestions, and TiamatZ dusted his alpha version of the same project off to once again see the light of day.

So what do we have so far?

You can check out the discussion that begins here in the 4e thread.

You can check out what TiamatZ has already done here.

You can even check out the blog I've started for my own version of things here.

So what do we need?

A lot. We'll do what we can, but we'd love some help, even if it is just to remind me that a minor action at-will attack power might be difficult to balance.

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Posts

  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    I dont think the blog format works very well for collaboration. But rather then linking, why not Zoidberg make a sweet OP out of the resources available?

    TiamatZ's Alpha Build:
    Races
    Asari
    Batarian
    Drell
    Geth
    Human
    Krogan
    Quarian
    Salarian
    Turian
    Vorcha

    Classes
    Engineer (levels 1-3)
    Soldier (levels 1-3)

    Developer's Notes
    Regarding the classes: When I was designing the classes, I had decided that each class had to be mechanically unique to one another (i.e. the engineer was designed to be supportive with drones and tech abilities, whereas the soldier focused on martial prowess (e.g. stances) and was also the only class at the time that could choose ammo powers as it's unique feature. Charging would be the Vanguard's forte (gaining class features that would enhance a player's charge powers, thus encouraging them to keep charging in the field), and Adepts would have used Augmentation Points ala the Psion).

    Regarding Vorcha: Design decisions were based upon the Dragonborn and Shifter racial features. Also, I figured the ability to re roll death saves (and taking the second result even if lower) would counter balance their immunity to diseases (though I might later replace this with a saving throw vs poisons, radiation and diseases instead, but that's the magic of Alpha testing: write down all the ideas down first, then fix it during the Beta stages.

    Regarding Batarian and Drell: I won't lie, the Batarian was probably the hardest to stat up, not because that their one of the least popular, but because... well, let's face it: Batarians rarely stuck out in the ME universe before they appeared in Mutliplayer. When you saw a Vorcha, you knew they were going to regenerate if you gave them a breather. A krogan? WATCH OUT FOR THAT CHARGE! And even an asari? HERE COME THEM BIOTICS! HOLD ON TO SOMETHING!

    As for batarians? Umm... well... they got 4 eyes! Reaaaalll scary. To be honest, their pretty much just humans with literally 4 eyes. And terrorists. And Space Korea or something...

    So I figured I'd stat them up to be perfect candidates for PCs who want to play a ruthless character. Their also the only race with Blade armor in the Multiplayer, so I decided to use that as their racial power (consider it illegal techs they pillaged from former victims or pirates, fits well with the ME canon ) Their probably the most unique race with some unique racial features compared to older 4th ed. races (with the exception of the power; long time 4th ed. fans may recognize it as the Razor storm power from the planar Bladelings). And yes, some merchants and vendors will get some unique keywords to give the GM (and the PCs) some idea on how to barter/negotiate/trade/extort/threaten to sell and buy goods. Another example of a merchant keyword would be Fearless, meaning the merchant is immune to being intimidated, and could even INCREASE his prices should PCs go that route.


    Lord Pallington's Notes:
    Vanguard:
    Spoiler:

    The Classes
    Class - Role - Primary Ability
    Adept - Controller - WIS
    Engineer - Leader - INT
    Infiltrator - Striker - DEX
    Sentinel - Defender - CON
    Soldier - Defender - STR
    Vanguard - Striker - CHA

    So, six classes, six ability scores - why not base each class off one? Adept and Engineer were easy, as I think science smarts (Engineer) as intelligence, and biotic smarts (Adept) as wisdom line up nicely.
    Infiltrator and Soldier were likewise pretty easy, just like Rogues and Fighters in 4e. Vanguard and Sentinel I wasn’t too sure on, but here’s my reasoning. Vanguards must have an incredible confidence in themselves to fire off into a biotic charge time and again, so I went with Charisma. In Mass Effect, the Sentinel is the most durable of all the builds, and your system needs to be strong to handle both your biotic amps and your omni-tool.

    I don’t have secondary ability scores or roles sorted out. I figure the different power evolutions will give me clues as I go, but I’m open to suggestions.

    The Races
    Race - Ability Boosts - Racial Ability
    Human - as 4e - as 4e
    Asari - CHA; WIS/CON - Tiefling
    Turian - STR; DEX/CON - Elf
    Salarian - INT; DEX/CON - Gnome
    Krogan - STR; CHA/CON - Minotaur
    Quarian - DEX; INT/CHA - Half-Elf
    Drell - WIS; DEX/CHA - Halfling
    Geth - INT; DEX/STR - Deva
    Vorcha - CON; STR/DEX - Dwarf
    Batarian - STR; CON/CHA - Half-Orc

    All of the playable races in ME3 multiplayer. I didn’t feel the need to come up with new racials for each, as 4e has plenty of balanced ones to choose from. With a little reskinning (Infernal Wrath -> Biotic Wrath), these should work just fine. I will be doing a little mixing and matching of the other traits (Krogan, for example, should get the resistance to forced movement/prone that dwarves get, while the Vorcha will be taking the minor action second wind).

    The Weapons
    This will be a little more difficult, but here are some very basic ideas of how the different types of guns will work.
    Type - Typical ranges - Typical damage
    Pistols - 10-20 - d4
    SMG - 5-10 - d6
    Assault Rifles - 10-20 - d8
    Shotguns - 5-10 - d10
    Sniper Rifles - 10-20 - d12

    psolms on
  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    also, im going to pitch playtesting this to my group tonight. ive been getting bummed on running saga and this might be the perfect distraction.

    edit: so that being said, i'll need more classes built... *hint*

    psolms on
  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    So maybe a wiki to collect the work?

    Thanks for putting TiamatZ's stuff up front, I'm always nervous about making the OP too long. As for your playtest, I put together an early alpha build of a sample human vanguard. I want to make an asari adept, salarian engineer, turian soldier, krogan sentinel, and a quarian infiltrator. How many people are in your tabletop, and what would they like to play?

    Speaking of the human vanguard:
    Spoiler:

    Like the psionics, biotics get 2 power points at level 1, and regain them during a short rest. Would a couple more characters like this allow you to playtest with your group?

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  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    yes they would, but i think that its important to iron out the kinks in the system before making playtest characters. for example, I dont feel like treating the guns like bows/crossbows is the best way to get the 'feel' of me3. another example would be skills. for sure many skills need changing.

    when i said 'tonight', i meant i would talk to them tonight about playtesting in the future. which they are down for.

  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    At the moment, we'd need to get the basics down first before we can do some proper playtesting. At the top of my head, I think the following needs to be finished/spruced up on:

    - The races (Drell and Batarians are the only ones that need a stat-up. I'll worry about the other races later).
    - The classes (I think it's best to keep the playtest with the classes between level 1-3, then expand on them once their sorta balanced).
    - Guns and Melee weapons (we need to decide how weapons function within the Tabletop version, and how much will range and melee combat affect the battlefield [e.g. Most weapons in DnD 4th Ed. were melee-oriented, with the exceptions of Range weapons like crossbows and Reach weapons; Maybe we should invert the chart, and have more range than melee weapons? Or perhaps replace melee weapons with add-ons for your weapons, giving you a bonus to basic melee attack rolls?)
    - Encounter design (How easy/hard will encounters be for players? Since I decided that a party of 4 players is the default, encounters would have to be tailored for such a party. Not to mention how will cover and elevation play a role in an encounter map).
    - Action types (New actions like covering and aiming need to be taken into consideration, since its a staple of the PC game).
    - Monster designs (We'll need to design some sample monsters for the PCs to fight. I was thinking some Mercenaries and Mech templates (i.e. like some Blue Suns grunts and some LOKI mechs) for players to test their abilities on during the playtest).

    Thoughts/Ideas?

    Edit: And as Lord said, this is a collaboration project, so anyone can join in and help out. So feel free to drop by and offer some of your thoughts and ideas on the project.

    TiamatZ on
    Jakiro avatar (and other DOTA 2 portraits) by Dota fan Adam C. Beamish: Check them out
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  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Ah, I see. I'm pretty new to playtesting tabletop stuff, so I thought seeing how a few alpha builds worked with some very basic rules would give me an idea on what needed work.

    * Races - we're going to need to be flexible on race stat boosts until we've finalized the classes' main and secondary stats.
    * Classes - completely agree on starting at 1-3.
    * Guns - I was thinking about taking hints from ME3 - modding weapons to increase melee (shotgun blade, assault rifle omni-blade, pistol stunner, etc), 'heavy' melee triggering off biotic amps or omni tools (implements) or the rare melee weapons in the universe (a few swords, krogan headbutt, etc).
    * Encounter design - I think slightly bigger numbers (hp) with more damage potential (biotic/tech explosions, barrier/shield stripping abilities, etc) would fit ME
    * Action types - for cover and aiming, why not basic stances available to anyone that could be specialized by classes?
    Cover: Free Action (only 1 free per turn, remember, so part of the action economy); take cover behind low or full cover. Low cover = concealment, full cover = full concealment.
    Aimed in: Free Action; gain proficiency modifier for the weapon you are wielding, lower speed by 1?
    * Monster designs - Mercs/mechs would be fine, but we've also got some great enemies from the multiplayer.
    Geth Rocket Trooper (artillery), Geth Hunter (stalker), Geth Trooper (soldier), Geth Pyro (brute?), Geth Prime (Elite soldier, spawns drone/turret minions), and if you want a solo, Geth Colossus.

    A few other things that would be unique to the setting:
    * Biotic/Tech explosions - maybe give powers 'primer' and 'detonator' keywords, and when a power is detonated, there is an immediate area burst 1 that does a set amount of damage - maybe average level of the two powers used? Maybe bonuses if it's two different characters instead of one? Also some good fodder for class abilities/feats.
    * Consumables - Multiplayer has 4 - rocket launcher, tac ops pack (healing potions?), ammo refill/buff (instant reload?), and medi-gel. This seems like a good way to port over potions.
    * Heavy Weapons - The Cain. Area Blast 20, xdy, where x = the number of dice the DM has, and y = the sides of said dice.
    * Balance - are we trying to balance this within 4e, or is this more standalone?

    sandman-sig.jpg
  • KaplarKaplar Registered User regular
    I would love to get into this as a Krogan warrior. Haven't done any PbPs before or played DnD for a while though so feel free to replace me with someone more experienced.

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  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    We're not ready to playtest this just yet, Kaplar, but when we are, I definitely foresee a PbP. Keep an eye out!

    sandman-sig.jpg
  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    some thoughts:

    -races: theres no turians statted yet.. at least, there are no pdf's of turians. turians, drell and batarians are the only combat important missing races.

    -classes: 1-3 of the 6(? adept, soldier, vanguard, engineer, infiltrator, sentinel, right? no others?) should be fine for playtesting

    -weapons: i think that if every gun had 2 slots for upgrades, and you made the upgrades rare, you could get a very good system going. also, there should be lots of different guns of each class of gun, but i'll let someone with more experience with all the different guns figure that out. for a playtest, one or two basic guns from each category should be plenty. as for melee, there should be a gun upgrade for +melee, there should also exist the melee weapons from ME3 MP - the swords, the electric whips, krogan headbutt. i think you could mimic the pace of the MP by making basic melee as a minor doing just str damage, and heavy melee as a standard doing much more (maybe triple damage?). the more i think about it, the more i think that the pace and feel is a little better emulated with the RoF stats I posted in the other thread: each gun has a rate of fire, standard action to fire that many shots, each hit does damage. would work also with higher hp/shield/barriers, and make melee a bit more dangerous.

    -biotic/tech explosions: i think this is a great idea; even better if not every power has both keywords. it would force a bit of tactics to set up and trigger them. i also think that the reward should be higher then just the average level of the power. maybe there is something in the idea of chain explosions - detonating one explodes a burst which detonates any other triggered power in the burst.

    -balance: i think that this is a standalone balance, just using the basic mechanics of 4e to hold the game in

    -consumables: yeah, missiles, ammo packs, medi gel and ops packs; i think also encounter consumables: ammo powers. warp/cryo/fire/etc as a one use item that lasts for the whole encounter.

    we also need to think hard about skills. i dont think this is going to be just a combat game, it needs to hold up as a P&P RPG which means skills outside of combat.

    i personally am terrible at statting enemies, but if i could get help with that, i would gladly write up a scenario to take 4 pc's from level 1 to 3 as a sort of 3-5 session playtest guide. what era would you want to see it take place in? rachni wars, krogan rebellion, geth war, first contact war, ME1, 2, 3, post 3? there is really a lot of material here to work with. i find it crazy that this setting is not currently being developed as a licensed rpg.

    my personal feeling would be to set it in the time between 1 & 2 - or, i guess, like during the 2 years that Shepard is in project Lazarus. meaning geth, collectors, mercs of all races, cerberus: all viable enemies. probably not reapers though.

    psolms on
  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    I like your timeline (during Project: Lazarus), and 4e has some good guidelines to make enemies, so I'll stat some up over the next couple of days. I like the 4e list of skills, but we could make a few substitutions. The physical skills seem like they would transfer perfectly, but stuff like Arcana might change to Artifacts (Prothean and beyond), Thievery -> Hacking, Dungeoneering -> Xenobiology?

    I do think RoF should have something to do with the guns, but dropping 3 attack/damage rolls every time you shoot the Vindicator would get hard to deal with, I think.
    Maybe something like: Single shot -> Semi-Auto -> Burst -> Full auto keywords that interact with powers/defenses? I don't know, that seems a little complicated.

    Anyway, I'll try my hand at some enemies. Drell should have ability mods that let them do well at infiltrator, adept, and vanguard. I thought Drell should get the halfling's Second Chance power (except call it something like Acrobatic Dodge), where they can force a reroll of an opponent's attack once per encounter. It's not luck for them, it's agility.

    Batarians should be able to do Soldier and Sentinel, don't know what else would work for them. I wanted to give them the Half-Orc +1[W] damage to an attack once per encounter.

    I thought I remember seeing a turian write up from TiamatZ, and we both had them pegged with the Elven Accuracy power (re-roll one attack once per encounter).

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  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    probably not reapers though.

    You underestimate the power of fanwank.

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  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Ah yes, "fanwank." We have dismissed those claims.

    sandman-sig.jpg
  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    * Guns - I was thinking about taking hints from ME3 - modding weapons to increase melee (shotgun blade, assault rifle omni-blade, pistol stunner, etc), 'heavy' melee triggering off biotic amps or omni tools (implements) or the rare melee weapons in the universe (a few swords, krogan headbutt, etc).

    Not a bad idea.

    * Encounter design - I think slightly bigger numbers (hp) with more damage potential (biotic/tech explosions, barrier/shield stripping abilities, etc) would fit ME

    Yeah. Since the PCs are much more powerful than their Fantasy 4th Ed. counterparts, it makes sense to make the enemies much more powerful. One idea I had was to keep the DnD Encounter design, but keep the party limit to 4 PCs (eg. designing an encounter as for 5 P
    * Action types - for cover and aiming, why not basic stances available to anyone that could be specialized by classes?
    Cover: Free Action (only 1 free per turn, remember, so part of the action economy); take cover behind low or full cover. Low cover = concealment, full cover = full concealment.
    Aimed in: Free Action; gain proficiency modifier for the weapon you are wielding, lower speed by 1?

    * Monster designs - Mercs/mechs would be fine, but we've also got some great enemies from the multiplayer.
    Geth Rocket Trooper (artillery), Geth Hunter (stalker), Geth Trooper (soldier), Geth Pyro (brute?), Geth Prime (Elite soldier, spawns drone/turret minions), and if you want a solo, Geth Colossus.

    The series itself has given rise to many foes for PCs to fight.
    From ME1: Geth, Pirates and Terrorist Cells, Thorians, Rachni (pre-ME3)
    From ME2: More Geth, Mercenaries (Blood Pack, Eclipse and Blue Suns), the Mechs and the Collectors
    And from ME3: Reaper forces (including Rachni ME3 vesion), Even more Geth, Cerberus forces
    A few other things that would be unique to the setting:
    * Biotic/Tech explosions - maybe give powers 'primer' and 'detonator' keywords, and when a power is detonated, there is an immediate area burst 1 that does a set amount of damage - maybe average level of the two powers used? Maybe bonuses if it's two different characters instead of one? Also some good fodder for class abilities/feats.

    Awesome idea. It helps create synergy between the PCs, and allows them to create combos, further encouraging teamwork.

    * Consumables - Multiplayer has 4 - rocket launcher, tac ops pack (healing potions?), ammo refill/buff (instant reload?), and medi-gel. This seems like a good way to port over potions.

    Not a bad idea, though I'm a bit concerned about PCs having early access to the Rocket Launcher so early in their career (from a Campaign perspective). As a one shot fight I don't mind. I was thinking on medi-gel being a quick way for PCs to stabilize the dying and getting them back into a fight. I'd probably limit the use of Medi-gels and Missiles in a fight (like maybe 1 missile/2 medi-gels per encounter).
    * Heavy Weapons - The Cain. Area Blast 20, xdy, where x = the number of dice the DM has, and y = the sides of said dice.

    We'll worry about heavy weapons later. Let's focus on the basics first.
    * Balance - are we trying to balance this within 4e, or is this more standalone?

    Well, we'll be using 4th Ed. as the framework, so the game rules have to follow the same rules as 4th Edition naturally. As for the actual license of the system, I don't really know to be honest. I don't know what Wizards' stance on the OGL (Open Game License) is on 4th edition. If anyone knows, give us a holler. Otherwise, I'd rather consider this to be PART of 4th edition (as in, you need to have DnD 4th edition Players Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide to understand the game) just to avoid potential lawsuits (although this is a non-profit project, I'd just like to be on the safe side nonetheless).

    psolms wrote: »
    -races: theres no turians statted yet.. at least, there are no pdf's of turians. turians, drell and batarians are the only combat important missing races.

    My bad, had them uploaded with the others, but forgot to post a link to them. Here you go (though they might need some 'calibrations')!
    psolms wrote: »
    -classes: 1-3 of the 6(? adept, soldier, vanguard, engineer, infiltrator, sentinel, right? no others?) should be fine for playtesting

    Only those 6. They will be considered the 'Basic' classes during character creation. Once PCs hit level 11 (AKA the Paragon tier), they'll get to choose Advance classes, such as Justicars, Battlemasters, and even the N7 program (such as the Human characters that was released in the Earth DLC package). I was considering adding in Spectres here as well, but that's still early days.
    psolms wrote: »
    -weapons: i think that if every gun had 2 slots for upgrades, and you made the upgrades rare, you could get a very good system going. also, there should be lots of different guns of each class of gun, but i'll let someone with more experience with all the different guns figure that out. for a playtest, one or two basic guns from each category should be plenty. as for melee, there should be a gun upgrade for +melee, there should also exist the melee weapons from ME3 MP - the swords, the electric whips, krogan headbutt. i think you could mimic the pace of the MP by making basic melee as a minor doing just str damage, and heavy melee as a standard doing much more (maybe triple damage?). the more i think about it, the more i think that the pace and feel is a little better emulated with the RoF stats I posted in the other thread: each gun has a rate of fire, standard action to fire that many shots, each hit does damage. would work also with higher hp/shield/barriers, and make melee a bit more dangerous.

    I like this idea as well.
    psolms wrote: »
    -ammo powers. warp/cryo/fire/etc as a one use item that lasts for the whole encounter.

    This could be useful. This would allow soldiers to gain permanent access to them (kind of their 'thing' compared to other classes), but still allow other PCs to use them during fights (though they would be less powerful than their Soldier counterparts for balance purposes).
    psolms wrote: »
    we also need to think hard about skills. i dont think this is going to be just a combat game, it needs to hold up as a P&P RPG which means skills outside of combat.

    I was thinking on implementing Star Wars Saga's range of skills. It kinda fits with ME's world.
    psolms wrote: »
    What era would you want to see it take place in? rachni wars, krogan rebellion, geth war, first contact war, ME1, 2, 3, post 3? there is really a lot of material here to work with. i find it crazy that this setting is not currently being developed as a licensed rpg.

    The neat thing about the Project, is that the Game Masters Guide would allow the GM to set their campaigns and story lines whenever they want to. For the playtest though, we should probably keep it simple for now, and use something akin to ME3's Multiplayer (e.g. Allow PCs [a team of operatives] to investigate a seemingly abandoned research facility on [Insert Planet name here], only to discover it being overrun by Geth or Cerberus forces bent on capturing the data. The PCs would then have to escape the facility, contact HQ for a shuttle, then reach the pad and hold the line for extraction. Or give PCs the option of setting the self-destruct on the facilities' Generators.)


    TiamatZ on
    Jakiro avatar (and other DOTA 2 portraits) by Dota fan Adam C. Beamish: Check them out
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  • psolmspsolms Registered User regular
    i hear you about it being complicated, but i see it like this:

    imagine firing a shotgun or sniper rifle. one shot, big damage.
    now imagine firing a pistol or smg. one shot. 1d6? 1d4? why would i ever not fire a shotgun instead?

    adding RoF and accuracy gives different playstyles a bit of chance to shine. taking the table i posted there:

    Weapon - Effective Range - Damage Die - Clip - Rate of fire - Accuracy (From Hip/Aimed)
    Pistols - 5-15 - d4 - ~15 ammo/clip - RoF: 3 shots - Accuracy: -1/+2
    SMG - 5-10 - d6 - ~40 ammo/clip - RoF: 10 Shots - Accuracy: -2/-2
    Assault Rifles - 10-20 - d8 - ~30 ammo/clip - RoF: 5 Shots - Accuracy: -1/+1
    Shotguns - 5-10 - d10 - ~5 ammo/clip - RoF: 1 Shot - Accuracy: 0/+2
    Sniper Rifles - 15-25 - d12 - ~1 ammo/clip - RoF: 1 Shot - Accuracy: -2/+4

    now, i could aim and fire with a pistol for a much better chance to hit, but do less damage
    or i could spray and pray with the smg with a low damage per shot, but lots of shots
    or i could use my assault rifle and get some range and aim for some good accuracy
    or i could use my shotgun at close and have good damage
    or i could snipe

    i also think that with this proposed setup, pistols are still shit and would never be used. im tempted to try and work weight in, but that is for sure taking it too far.

    the other cool thing about a RoF system is that you can then add variety to each weapon category. for example (im not well versed on the in game guns, so please forgive me) you could have a revolver type gun that could look like this:

    Revolver (Pistol)
    Range: 5-15
    Damage: d8
    Clip: 6 Shots
    RoF: 1 Shot
    Accuracy: 0/+2

    or

    Typhoon (Assault Rifle)
    Range: 10-15
    Damage: d6
    Clip: 100 Shots
    RoF: 20 Shots
    Accuracy: -1/0

    and make interesting weapon choices inside each category, but it could all be balanced.

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    I was thinking of having a couple of 'base' models for each weapon, like 'heavy pistol' vs 'light pistol,' then for the bigger, better versions, treating them like magic items.

    The Typhoon would be a fully auto AR, probably with Armor Piercing capabilities and a once per encounter ability to fire off a basic ranged as a free action. The Saber, on the other hand, would be a semi-auto AR with an increase to accuracy or some such. I just don't know if I want to deal with 4-5 (or more) attack rolls per player per turn.

    I definitely get what you're saying about why would anyone ever take a pistol over a shotgun, and there should be clearly defined roles for each gun. It'll take a brain more awake than mine at the moment to figure it out, so I'll get back to you on that (or anyone else could chime in with their ideas).

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Regarding weapons, I still think it's much better to 'limit' classes to specific categories of weapons at first level (eg. Engineers have access to Pistols and Submachine guns only, whereas Vanguards have access to Pistols and Shotguns), then allow players to choose weapon proficiencies at later levels later should they wish to customize their characters.

    Now that I think about it, I might have to remove the Soldier's feature to choose specific Ammo powers at character creation, if only to balance out the fact that Soldiers get proficiency in every weapon and armor. That way, Ammo powers can become more universal.

    Edit: Also, the OP needs this:



    @Psolms: Regarding weapons: I was also thinking to add Weapon Weight and Reload Speed in there as well. A weapon's weight would either be classified as Light or Heavy, and both this and RoF would determine what action would be needed to reload the weapon. An example would be a sniper rifle (let's saw a Widow). It would have a Low RoF (say 1 RoF), low clip size (say 1), but has a high damage output to compensate (say 2d12) and would be classified as a heavy weapon. Therefore, a PC would have to use a standard action to reload the weapon once the clip is expended.

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  • KaplarKaplar Registered User regular
    We're not ready to playtest this just yet, Kaplar, but when we are, I definitely foresee a PbP. Keep an eye out!

    Ah. Posted before I read the entire thread. Sounds like a great idea and something that people could really get into!

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  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    For variety of weapons, you could use the Borderlands/ME1 system, where there's a list of manufacturers that apply + and - to different stats on the gun. Also, from ME1, have higher levels of guns that add (Level x dX) to the core stats, and have more upgrade slots.

    With those two options, I doubt anyone will complain about samey guns.

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  • AntimatterAntimatter if you want to talk to me look elsewhere.Registered User regular
    This looks so cool, watching this closely.

    Theodore Floosevelt
  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    I have bookmarked this thread. This is a fantastic idea, as both ME and D&D are great. Kudos to you guys, and I wish you the best of luck! If there's anything I can do to help, let me know!

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    D&D isn't really known to me, but I understand that maybe the current (?) system has health and then a sort of once-your-down-health, is that what you're going to use on characters? How will you handle death etc? In MP you can just revive someone unless they get instant killed, is there any need to find a way to implement something like this or is it already in?

  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    @Retaba once you go to 0 (or less) HP, you are in a sort of unconscious state. every one of your turns after that, you make a d20 roll. 10 or less you get an x. 11-19 you are stable. no better, no worse. 20 you hop right back up and use a healing surge (1/4 hp returned). 3 Xs and you die. There's a heal skill people can use and make a skill check to give you HP and bring you back into the positive and you can get up next turn.

    I guess you could swap healing skill with first aid/medi-gel skill

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Hmm but doesn't D&D have healers and healing spells. Mass Effect has regenerating shields and health restore packs (also a little bit after each round), medi-gel are items so I'm wondering if it is possible to translate a less heal-required-class to D&D and align it more with how MP is?

    But that system of being down seems to work pretty well.

  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    First aid skill could work then. Just have them rush up before you bleed out and revive you, like in multi

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  • XagarXagar Registered User regular
    If you need to spend a standard to reload your weapon, it better be pretty fucking amazing. I really wouldn't want to be the guy who misses a shot or two and as a consequence, spends 4 rounds doing nothing while everyone else is running around and having fun.

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  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    Xagar wrote: »
    If you need to spend a standard to reload your weapon, it better be pretty fucking amazing. I really wouldn't want to be the guy who misses a shot or two and as a consequence, spends 4 rounds doing nothing while everyone else is running around and having fun.

    Based on the games, some of those things take forever and a half to reload. Since a turn of combat for everyone is considered to be 5-10 seconds of a fight, it seems to fit pretty well. Shoot, reload, should be about 4 or 5 seconds for your sniper character

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    And now the Batarian AND Drell are completed!

    I won't lie, the Batarian was probably the hardest to stat up, not because that their one of the least popular, but because... well, let's face it: Batarians rarely stuck out in the ME universe before they appeared in Mutliplayer. When you saw a Vorcha, you knew they were going to regenerate if you gave them a breather. A krogan? WATCH OUT FOR THAT CHARGE! And even an asari? HERE COME THEM BIOTICS! HOLD ON TO SOMETHING!

    As for batarians? Umm... well... they got 4 eyes! Reaaaalll scary. To be honest, their pretty much just humans with literally 4 eyes. And terrorists. And Space Korea or something...

    So I figured I'd stat them up to be perfect candidates for PCs who want to play a ruthless character. Their also the only race with Blade armor in the Multiplayer, so I decided to use that as their racial power (consider it illegal techs they pillaged from former victims or pirates, fits well with the ME canon :P) Their probably the most unique race with some unique racial features compared to older 4th ed. races (with the exception of the power; long time 4th ed. fans may recognize it as the Razor storm power from the planar Bladelings). And yes, some merchants and vendors will get some unique keywords to give the GM (and the PCs) some idea on how to barter/negotiate/trade/extort/threaten to sell and buy goods. Another example of a merchant keyword would be Fearless, meaning the merchant is immune to being intimidated, and could even INCREASE his prices should PCs go that route.

    Edit: also, I updated the Krogans a bit as well, replacing the old Krogan Rage with the classic Krogan Headbutt! I decided to replace Krogan Rage, mostly cause its statistically the same power as the Vorcha now have.

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  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    Yeah, the 4e death mechanic also works very much like the ME3 multiplayer death mechanic, so I wasn't worried about changing that.

    I was thinking engineers would be the leader class, as two of the multi classes have burst healing (Geth Engineer's turret and the N7's pylon), as well as plenty of debuffs between them. They could work kind of like the shaman's totems, maybe?

    I like the heavy - light weapons, and classes that have a 'choice' (like infiltrators, some work better with shotties, some with sniper rifle) could have that as part of their class feature choices.
    For the infiltrator, at level 1 choose "close quarters" or "sniper," gain proficiency with shotguns or sniper rifles, then some powers could have specific riders for each (like a rogue's artful dodger vs. ruthless ruffian).

    Oh, another thing I completely forgot to ever bring up - but do we want to default the setting to inherent bonuses, like Dark Sun? That way, we don't have to worry about +1 - +5 versions of everything.

    Speaking of some roughly done monsters (liberally borrowed/modified from existing material, using post-MM3 math)
    Geth Trooper - Level 1 Soldier
    Spoiler:
    These guys are built to advance fast and keep up the pressure. They go down quickly, just like in the game, but they're a pain to deal with if you let them linger.

    Geth Hunter - Level 2 Lurker
    Spoiler:
    Speaking of borrowing, I based their standard action cloak/big attack the next turn off one of my favorite monsters from the Nentir Vale, also a level 2 lurker.

    Geth Rocket Trooper - Level 3 Artillery
    Spoiler:
    These guys seem a little generic, but I couldn't think of anything really stand out about rocket troopers other than big rockets. Maybe an encounter or recharge burst 1 attack?

    Geth Pyro - Level 3 Brute
    Spoiler:
    Kind of low initial damage, but characters will need to deal with pretty constant ongoing fire damage to compensate. Just glad there aren't tieflings in Mass Effect 4e!

    Geth Prime - Level 3 Elite Skirmisher
    Spoiler:
    Big guy that can toss around damage and annoying minions to deal with. I'm a little embarrassed to say I don't actually know what a combat drone does for a Prime in ME3, so I gave it a shield recharge effect. If it does something else, let me know and I'll fix it. The turrets and drones are now limited to one at a time, and they just have straight aura effects to lessen the amount of dice rolling a prime will make a DM do.

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    @Lord

    Regarding the Infiltrator, I was thinking these features when choosing one?

    Operative
    When choosing an Infiltrator, choose one of the following features:

    Assassin:
    You gain a proficiency in Sniper Rifles. In addition, your reload speed with sniper rifles is reduced (Sniper rifles that take a standard action to reload now takes a Minor Action, and Sniper rifles that take a Minor Action to reload now take a Free Action). You must be behind cover for this to take effect.

    Commando
    You gain a proficiency in shotguns. Whenever you hit a target successfully with the shotgun, it gains a -2 to attack rolls until the end of your turn.



    Tech Cloak:
    Infiltrators gain the tech cloak power (Encounter power). When activated, they gain invisibility. They would need to use a minor action to sustain it. Whenever they do any action that does not involve moving, the Cloak dissipates. While in this cloaked form, you gain a +X bonus to attack rolls, where X is your dexterity or intelligence modifier, whichever one is highest. (Thanks Road Virus)

    I'll think of more tonight when I get home.

    Thoughts/Ideas?

    Edit: regarding the Geth Prime: Maybe you should stipulate what the maximum limit is for summoning minions? Reading that stat block, it seems a GM could abuse that ability every turn, summoning minions everywhere!

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  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    would dex be a better modifier for stealth shots?

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  • TiamatZTiamatZ Freeze...and burn! Double TroubleRegistered User regular
    edited August 2012
    would dex be a better modifier for stealth shots?

    Maybe Dexterity or Intelligence rather, whichever is highest for the PC?

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    If you're looking for more geth baddies, in ME1 there was a geth hopper which mysteriously never made it into the other games.

  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    Retaba wrote: »
    If you're looking for more geth baddies, in ME1 there was a geth hopper which mysteriously never made it into the other games.
    You know why? Because fuck that guy!
    Make him a minion :)

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  • l3lasphemer69l3lasphemer69 Registered User regular
    ME and DND are having babies!!! Consider me interested!

  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Good call Retaba, and I agree with Road Virus (though not about the minion part).

    Good catch, TiamatZ. It's an overlook, not a feature of the enemy.

    As for infiltrator, just a couple of suggestions:
    Assassin - all fine, except I'd say move a standard reload to a move reload, a move to a minor, etc.
    Commando - I was leery of this, but then I remembered the Rattling keyword Ruthless Ruffian rogues get which does basically the same thing, so I think it at least makes it into the playtest that way.

    Here's how I statted up Tactical Cloak:
    Tactical Cloak - Infiltrator Utility
    At Will * High Tech, Illusion
    Minor Action Personal
    Effect: You gain concealment until the end of your next turn, or until you attack, whichever comes first. If you are behind cover or did not move this turn, you have full concealment.
    Then I was going to combine it with rogue sneak attack. This way, enemies have a chance of spotting you, especially if you are running around outside of cover. But if you are behind cover or motionless, you'd get sneak attack dice.

    I think I like your minor sustain better, as it would let an infiltrator stealth better. Maybe max 3 turns or something? I didn't want to give an at-will invisibility, because it seemed a little strong, but maybe an at-will full concealment? The main difference is that enemies can see through full conceal easier, and if you are adjacent to an enemy you only have partial conceal. The rest is the same: -5 to attacks against you, CA against creatures that can't see you, etc. I know in ME3 if you try and stealth right by enemies they'll take a swing at you.

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  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    I was thinking minion for that one because if I remember correctly, they had pretty low health, though they were hell to hit due to the jumpy.

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  • Lord PalingtonLord Palington Registered User regular
    Yeah, but either way - fuck that guy.

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  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    Yeah, but either way - fuck that guy.
    Oh for sure. I played ME1 on xbox, and trying to play through on insanity with those bastards zipping around? Nope nope nope.

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    I agree that they were bastards, but for some reason I thought it was very fitting. They were robots and they made a robot that was very effective against organic players :P

  • XagarXagar Registered User regular
    edited August 2012
    They were also actually mostly organic muscle (if I recall). That's how they zipped around like that. Also, you should totally bring them back, because things on walls and ceilings are fun.

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