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Misdemeanor
Snackbar
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I may or may not have recently got into some trouble regarding a poor decision at the local supermarket and need some legal wisdom, if anyone would be so kind as to impart it upon me.
I was speaking with a man of the law about misdemeanors for petty theft and he mentioned that you could plead not guilty in court, then get off with some strange plea (seems like the last word started with an A - honestly, it sounded like the guy was saying the word wrong, but who knows) that caused "the system" to hold your case for a certain amount of time, then dismiss it. Strike it from the record. I'm assuming that it would still involve some kind of fine or community service. I can't remember the name of this plea, but it seems like something I may want to look into, if anyone can help me out.
If I've been too vague, just let me know. I'll try to fill in the gaps.
Thanks again, H/A, for your help.
I was speaking with a man of the law about misdemeanors for petty theft and he mentioned that you could plead not guilty in court, then get off with some strange plea (seems like the last word started with an A - honestly, it sounded like the guy was saying the word wrong, but who knows) that caused "the system" to hold your case for a certain amount of time, then dismiss it. Strike it from the record. I'm assuming that it would still involve some kind of fine or community service. I can't remember the name of this plea, but it seems like something I may want to look into, if anyone can help me out.
If I've been too vague, just let me know. I'll try to fill in the gaps.
Thanks again, H/A, for your help.
Destroy what destroys you.
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There is a specific term for what you're talking about, but basically you plea guilty, then they suspend your sentence for a certain amount of time. Provided you don't get in trouble during that time, the offense is expunged from your record.
A lot of stores, however, will prosecute these things to the full extent of the law, so you may not be able to get something like that. You need to be talking to your attorney about what your options are, because you do not want something like that on your record if you can possibly help it.
Umm yeah, speak with an attorney about this. I've been given tickets in the past and it turns out "men of the law" usually have no fucking clue what they are talking about. Is the term you were referring to Nolo Contendere? I really doubt that would apply in your case (I have very little legal knowledge btw). Good luck.
I've heard the term before, and I wish I could remember it. However, a public defender should be very familiar with it.
But I definitely have to second the notion to speak with an attorney as soon as possible because we can't possibly predict the whims of a local judicial system.
I was told that you plead not guilty, though. I'm going to assume you're more correct than my previous informant.
How would I go about speaking to a public defender? I've never been in trouble with the law before, and this, I think, should end up being a very minor thing. I had a small item in my pocket (which, for the record, I actually intended to pay for, but absent mindedly dropped into said pocket when reaching for my cell phone and forgot about it - I was in a hurry and am not stupid enough to get into a bunch of trouble like this over two dollars) and the businesses around my area don't really seem to be hard-up with the law. I've known a few trouble-makers.
Oh, also, the people who actually caught my misdoings were two men hired by the store. They were hired on contract, and were not actual employees of the business or members of any police unit. I was as compliant as possible when dealing with them and the officer who issued my citation, but did not mention my claim at not actually intending to steal the product. I figured they wouldn't believe me and that claiming responsibility would benefit me in the long-run.
Edit: Age 18, no previous criminal history, $2 of goods. Very silly.
Can't make any guarantees, but my sister was 16 when she got arrested with $600.00 worth of goods from Macy's. This is a felony. She walked away with only having to write an essay and do a bit of community service (which I am kinda pissed about, she should have got a more serious punishment, she has not learned her lessons... but I guess judges have a soft spot for girls from suburbia). Getting arrested for $2.00 worth of merchandise is kind of fishy though. Is this the whole story?
Edit: BTW, it was erased from her record.
Are they seriously charging you with a misdemeanor over $2 worth of goods? That's more than a little ridiculous.
You should have a date right now for your pre-trial hearing if they are charging you with a misdemeanor. What you should do is call the court where you are set to appear. You want to speak to the criminal division, and ask what you do from here in order to get a public defender. Odds are, you show up for your pre-trial hearing, tell them you can't afford an attorney, and they appoint you a public defender, but it's good to know what to expect going in.
I'm assuming there's no room to deny the charge? You're probably going to end up with that thing-I-can't-name, then, since the value of the stuff is so small, and you have no previous criminal record (though, things would go a lot easier for you if you'd done this at 17 instead of 18 :P). You definitely want it expunged from your record, though. Something like that can hound you for years.
Ah yes, forgot about that whole 18 thing. Tough luck.
I edited post #7 with a little bit more information on how things went down, by the way.
This all actually happened this afternoon, so I have six days before I can even set a court date, since it takes time to put the charge into the system. Will the date set after said almost-week be my pre-trial hearing?
Will the officer who issued my citation be present at my court hearing or have anything further to do with the matter? I'm fairly certain that everyone involved with this agrees that it's absolutely ridiculous, so maybe that and my compliance can help get me off the hook here?
Yeah, you should wait your week. The workings of justice take time. They'll most likely send you information on things like what you're being charged with, how to get in touch with a public defender, etc.
You should probably get off pretty easy for this, but that's not a guarantee, and I've seen cases where people get railroaded. That's why you need to talk to a public defender.
Did you buy anything from the store that you, like, paid for?
Well I wouldn't expect to absolutely find yourself absolved of the judiciary process. Just because of the effort that is going to go into this. You will definitely end up incurring court fees and restitution but that is a relatively light fee for a clean record.
I did buy some things from the store. Here's how it all went down (Long story):
I stopped by the store on the way to my buddy's house to drop off a RedBox movie and decided to pick up some snacks while I was there. So I walk into the snack isle, grab a bag of Peanut-Butter Chex Mix (delicious, by the way) and some little fruit leather things (fifty-cents a piece), then proceed to the drink isle. As I was walking down, my phone rings, so I go to grab it and drop the fruit leathers into my pocket in the process. I talk on the phone for a second, drop the phone back in my pocket (literally, dropped it), then hurry over to the drink section. I grab two of those new red Vault beverages (also delicious), then head for the check stand. I pay for my Chex Mix and Vaults and head out of the store. This guy grabs my arm and tells me he's store security - asks me to come back in. I honestly didn't know why he was bothering me at first, but as we were walking back in, I realized that I had the fruit leathers in my pocket. So we walk upstairs to some employee meeting room, he asks me if I know why he stopped me, I tell him yeah, empty the pockets, etc. He and a partner of his sit there and fill out little report things, count my money, check to see if I have anything else on me, etc. I helped them out with any and all information they needed that I had for their reports, tried to keep from being too pissy about the whole thing, and we actually ended up joking about it after a while. So they call the cops and one officer shows up, reads my rights, talks to me for a second, tries to "scare me straight" with threats of taking me down to jail for a few hours, etc. He ended up lightening up toward the end as well and it seems we all could have gone out for coffee without much tension after it was all said and done, if you know what I mean.
So yeah, that was basically it.
Edit: Also, I asked the guys who grabbed me if they were working for the store or what, so that's how I know they were contracted. They also gave me the absolute minimum trespass sentence for the store, which is six months at the particular location.
Like others have said, talk to a lawyer, but I can't see there being any serious punishment for this.
If you're being truthful, just do the same to the judge. Explain exactly what happened, that it was an honest mistake, and it won't happen again. Dress nice (tie at least, coat if you have it), comb your hair, shower up all nice and pretty. Be respectful, courteous (yes ma'am, yes sir; no "yeah" crap).
Like Than said, even if they make you pay ten times restitution it'd only be $20. It still baffles me why they didn't just let you go if you explained it. Hell, you even bought some other items and still had money.
Depends on the state, but many states have statutory amounts that a store can get back through a civil claim once a conviction for shoplifting has been achieved.
My state, for example, provides:
The last I've seen, stores usually end up averaging around $500 or so. I've seen stores like Claire's prosecute for somebody who stole a couple hair bands out of a pack of five, where the whole pack was like $7. The defendant plead guilty, paying the mininum fines and court costs (in our city, roughly $100 fines + $165 costs). The store then filed a civil action under that statute, and received full value for the item (it was recovered, but not sellable at full price) + a flat $200 for the time it took for loss prevention to come in, swear out a warrant, then come to trial + attorney's fees. So because the person stole approximately $3 worth of hair bands, they ended up with a criminal conviction, hundreds of dollars in fines and court costs, and hundreds of dollars in a civil judgment to the merchant. That's if they plead guilty. If they plead not guilty, they get way more than the minimum fine if found guilty (up to $1000 + court costs).
If you go on deferred prosecution, the agreement in my town is usually that the case will be deferred for 6 months to a year. If you paid a cash bond to get out of jail, we'll sit on that money for the entire period, which is basically an interest free loan to the city. You agree to take classes (all of which are ridiculously expensive and offered by a private company that has a contract with the city). At the end of that time, the case is nol prossed upon payment of court costs. And that doesn't prohibit the merchant from still trying to come after you under the statute for civil damages.
My court only handles misdemeanor crimes, so if all the above seems harsh, that's only for misdemeanors. It can get much, much nastier for felonies.
Actually I think it is "Deferred Adjudication".
Could be. I know it's "Deferred Prosecution" in WA, but presumably other States or areas could call it other things.
But yeah, this could go a couple different ways for the OP. Wait until they get back to you on charges, etc., then find out how you get a public defender.
That makes sense. I just figured it might be somthing different and the OP mentioned an A in the word.
Seriously. It's free. If I remember correctly, in my case I was assigned one at my first pre-trial hearing. But definitely find out what the process is.
Also, and maybe I'm just being naive, but doesn't the state have to show at some level of intent to convict on shoplifting? I mean, if something falls off a rack and into a woman's purse and she doesn't notice before leaving the store (yes, I have seen this happen) that shouldn't qualify, shoud it? Obviously this falls somewhere between that and obvious full-blown shoplifting...and given the additional risk incurred by going to a trial it's probably not worth fighting. I'd just think that given what we've been told here something like this should be defensible.
EDIT: Also, a reminder that anything and everything you read here should merely be questions that you ask your PD. Then get your "actual" advice from them. Additionally, while it's generally wise to take their advice don't think of it as gospel. For instance, in my case (which was for driving on a suspended license, a misdemeanor) my PD recommended pleading out for what would have been a small fine. I instead decided to plead not guilty and argue that I wasn't aware it was suspended (a valid defense in my state), because having moved several times recently I hadn't recieved the notice. The prosecutor countered that it was stated on the speeding ticket I had failed to pay that my license would be suspended for non-payment (a good point, and probably the reason my PD didn't think this was a wise route to choose). I went with ignorance, argued that the average person doesn't read all the fine print on a speeding citation, and the judge decided to have mercy on me. Charges (well, charge) dropped.
That just seems fucked to me. Again, I've seen somebody bump a display and have something fall into their purse. They were absolutely oblivious. Had they made it out the store and been caught (say, a tag activated the sensor) suddenly they could be convicted of shoplifting?
I could maybe see placing the burden on the accused to show lack of intent...maybe. But there really should be some sort of system by which somebody can avoid paying copious amounts of money for what amounts to a $1 mistake.
Sorry, though...I know this isn't D&D.
Most brandname shops have a 'we prosecute all shoplifters' policy, so I can see why its going down.
Talk to your PD, but you can usually plead guilty, save the courts time, and have it reduced to a fine with no record. They generally go light on a first, very minor offense. Sort of a 'hey, maybe you'd better pay attention' proceeding.
Doubtful you will be found not guilty, as shoplifting while buying items is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Likewise the minor nature of the item will be irrelevant, as the rush from stealing doesn't really care that much about purchase price. Mostly, shops and the system are worried about you developing a habit, a common one which all tolled costs businesses millions upon millions every year. A note will be entered into your file so that the next time, everyone will know it's your second 'accident', and things will go much more harshly.
If your innocence is truly genuine, plead innocent. Judges can be surprisingly astute and forgiving. If however, there is but the faintest hint of bullshit in your story talk to what can be done with your PD to save everyone's time and reduce the penalty.
Oh - if you look like or have that little punk bastard vibe, even unintentionally, things could go badly for you even if you are innocent. Again, talk to your PD.
The security guard and I personally caught a guy stealing £50 of razorblades from my supermarket and the Store Manager just barred him from the store. Unlucky man.
Alternativly you could also plead guilty and judges will use a probationary period where if you stop your rampant theiving ways he will have the conviction stricken from the record.
But what all the lime posting people say.
Satans..... hints.....
2nd, go get one. This is not legal advice, this is common sense.
I'm running an IP trace right now, and I'll be contacting the police momentarily...
Seriously, if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, shut the fuck up. Literally everyone in the thread has told him to get a lawyer. Giving legal advice is only illegal if 1) you represent yourself as an attorney, or 2) you are in some position of trust which would make it illegal (employee of a government agency, or something like that).
You don't have to represent yourself as an attorney in order to practice law without a license, you just have to give a legal opinion. I think you might have to get paid for that opinion too (that much I'm not sure about).
I'm just going to set my trial date, speak with a public defender, and try to get out of this without a dirty record. Thanks everyone for your concern and advice.
That said, here is what you should do:
You'll get to municipal court, and be in front of a judge who probably deals with dozens of cases like yours every week. Since they've got you dead to rights, you should essentially throw yourself on the mercy of the court: you're a good guy, you made a dumb decision, and you want to make it right.
At this point, unless the judge is a complete prick, they'll probably direct you to a diversion or similar program. You'll probably have to pay some small fine and attend a class about how wrooooong stealing is, and assuming you can go six months or a year without shoplifting, it'll be off your record.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
At least if you get an attorney you can hold them liable for any mistakes they make. if you try to do that with someone on this forum all you get is a "Haha, sucker!".
I did read most of the thread, and look, it's really not worth fighting about because I agree with you. I was mostly concerned with the how to/ what to plead discussion.