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New law aims to punish deceitful publishers/developers

chaossoldierchaossoldier Registered User regular
edited March 2007 in Games and Technology
This law, called the "Video Game Decency Act", will punish any developer or publisher who knowingly hides content from the ESRB.
A Michigan congressman has proposed federal legislation which would make it illegal for game developers to hide content in the hope of gaining a less restrictive ESRB rating.

Rep. Fred Upton (R) filed the Video Game Decency Act of 2007 late last week. The bill, H.R. 1531, mirrors a 2006 proposal by Upton which expired with the end of the 109th Congress.

Upton was a major critic of the now-infamous Hot Coffee scandal, and it shows in the language of H.R. 1531, which reads in part:

"It shall be unlawful… to… distribute… any video game that contains a rating label… for that video game where the person, with the intent of obtaining a less restrictive age-based content rating, failed to disclose content of the video game that was required to be disclosed to the independent ratings organization…"

Violations would constitute an unfair or deceptive practice under guidelines of the Federal Trade Commission. The bill has been referred to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, of which Upton is a member.

When he introduced the original bill in 2006, Upton said it was designed to give the FTC more enforcement power over video game content in the wake of Hot Coffee:

Gamepolitics sourced

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Posts

  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Is this even a problem? I wouldn't even consider "Hot Coffee" content. And I highly doubt that Rockstar didn't report it intentionally.

    YodaTuna on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    Couscous on
  • chaossoldierchaossoldier Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    Is this even a problem? I wouldn't even consider "Hot Coffee" content. And I highly doubt that Rockstar didn't report it intentionally.

    It's most likely designed to be preventative. And while Rockstar claims Hot Coffee was unintentional, they were still found guilty of hiding it.

    chaossoldier on
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  • Dinosaur_NeilDinosaur_Neil Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    it doesn't even make any sense, the only way you could even get that hot coffee thing was by hacking the game, it's not like you could just unintentionally run into it.

    Dinosaur_Neil on
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    Is this even a problem? I wouldn't even consider "Hot Coffee" content. And I highly doubt that Rockstar didn't report it intentionally.

    It's most likely designed to be preventative. And while Rockstar claims Hot Coffee was unintentional, they were still found guilty of hiding it.

    They removed all access to it by legitimate means. A lot of content that is "removed" from games is simply restricted. Think about all of the strange levels and areas people have found in various games. The dragon island in Fable comes to mind.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • chaossoldierchaossoldier Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    If I remember right, that mod was what caused Oblivion to get an M rating some time after release.

    chaossoldier on
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  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    i still don't see the big deal behind hot coffee, i don't think anyone who does think its a big deal has actually seen it in action...

    the 'sex' is laughable at best

    and besides, wasn't san andreas like... mature anyways?

    don't normal people know what sex is when they are 17+?

    TheKoolEagle on
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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    If I remember right, that mod was what caused Oblivion to get an M rating some time after release.

    Oblivion was later given an M rating because models had boobies (without nipples), with clothing over them. A mod was used to remove the clothing.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    What gets me about Hot Coffee is that it's a scandal about two clothed characters consensually humping each other in a game where you can reguarly go on bloody, murderous rampages.

    The mind boggles.

    Suriko on
  • BTPBTP Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why do I get a feeling that the government will try to use this law to show numerous examples of the videogame industry being deceitful (no matter how trivial) to eventually obtain the censorship abilities the ESRB currently has? Two birds with one stone and all that......

    BTP on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    If I remember right, that mod was what caused Oblivion to get an M rating some time after release.

    Oblivion was later given an M rating because models had boobies (without nipples), with clothing over them. A mod was used to remove the clothing.

    And a mod or external device was used to get the Hot Coffee content.

    Couscous on
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    This just sounds like someone not really knowing how video game development works.

    Pata on
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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    If I remember right, that mod was what caused Oblivion to get an M rating some time after release.

    Oblivion was later given an M rating because models had boobies (without nipples), with clothing over them. A mod was used to remove the clothing.

    And a mod or external device was used to get the Hot Coffee content.

    I wasn't trying to argue. I think it's totally ridiculous to blame the developers for content that they thought was inaccessible.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Im hoping that hidden content will not effect ratings given though, becuase I mean, hell, in the windows 2k source code, theres loads of curse words. if theres ascii boobiez in spongebob squarepants thats rated E and someone steals source and reveals it, do devs/publishers deserve to be sued for content that was never meant to be seen?

    Weve had several recent threads by TSR about extreme efforts to uncover secrets in old games, does this mean in the future if someone finds something really freaking down deep (if you had read the threads, there was some downright da vinci code linking shit going on), the developer will pay for it? Sounds kind of lame.

    Im for accountability, but im angry that rockstar lied about hot coffee being in the game(I belive press release stated that it was a pc mod with the gameplay added in, etc till someone showed it was in the console too), not that content like that, that was hidden, was found.

    Now the boob skins included in oblivion..... I dont know. It seemed like they meant to have two different releases, (like farenheight did) but something weird happened and wires crossed. it was available without much work to put in i belive..... If they gave the copy of the game with that skin included but not used to be tested, then the content was included in the review I guess, and its the ESRBs fault for not being up to date enough to catch content like that? Who knows my head hurts now.

    Edit: I may be confused, I thought a single skin could be replaced, which essentially included the nipples, removed underwear models. If you needed a seperate mod to do this, and the nipples were there the whole time, I dont think they should of been held accountable. I also thought this game had a M rating all along. Its amazing the horrors of violence that can be in a game and it just rates T

    DiannaoChong on
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  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Pata wrote: »
    This just sounds like someone not really knowing how video game development works.



    have you read the comments on gamepolitics as well? they are pretty funny

    TheKoolEagle on
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  • Dinosaur_NeilDinosaur_Neil Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Suriko wrote: »
    What gets me about Hot Coffee is that it's a scandal about two clothed characters consensually humping each other in a game where you can reguarly go on bloody, murderous rampages.

    The mind boggles.

    sex is dirty in the US(despite it being everywhere) don't you know that?! killing cops? murderous rampages? well boys will be boys :P

    Dinosaur_Neil on
  • TiemlerTiemler Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    don't normal people know what sex is when they are 17+?

    Nope. The Lord imbues human beings with that hallowed knowledge on the day they turn 18 (or are married, for those of you in southern states), and not a minute sooner.

    Tiemler on
  • mausmalonemausmalone Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Suriko wrote: »
    What gets me about Hot Coffee is that it's a scandal about two clothed characters consensually humping each other in a game where you can reguarly go on bloody, murderous rampages.

    The mind boggles.

    sex is dirty in the US(despite it being everywhere) don't you know that?! killing cops? murderous rampages? well boys will be boys :P

    Sex is taboo. T&A is a natural fit in every social situation.

    No wonder our country is so violent ... everybody's walking around with a wicked case of blue balls.

    mausmalone on
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Now the boob skins included in oblivion..... I dont know. It seemed like they meant to have two different releases, (like farenheight did) but something weird happened and wires crossed. it was available without much work to put in i belive..... If they gave the copy of the game with that skin included but not used to be tested, then the content was included in the review I guess, and its the ESRBs fault for not being up to date enough to catch content like that? Who knows my head hurts now.

    It's been a while, so I might have details mixed up in all. But Oblivion didn't have two different releases planned, the skins were there and used, but the functional parts (which weren't even in the skin) weren't visible. The "boob skin" in Oblivion was meant for underlay with clothing - gaps in armor or the cut of a shirt or dress would show skin instead of the undergarments built into the default naked skin.

    It took a mod to make the entire skin visible, since just unequipping all your armor would revert to the default naked skin with underwear. The mod was very simple, just swapped the default naked texture with the clothing underlay - the sort of thing you learn in the TES Construction Set tutorial. Even with the mod, the skin was a bit disturbing. No distinguishing genitals, no nipples, not even much that could be called buttcrack. If you want anything actually resembling a naked human and not a dead Facedancer, you need a mod like Better Bodies, which is completely user-made content outside of Bethesda's control.

    Hevach on
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    If I remember right, that mod was what caused Oblivion to get an M rating some time after release.

    Oblivion was later given an M rating because models had boobies (without nipples), with clothing over them.
    By that logic Life ought to be rated XXX.

    Senjutsu on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    If I remember right, that mod was what caused Oblivion to get an M rating some time after release.

    Oblivion was later given an M rating because models had boobies (without nipples), with clothing over them.
    By that logic Life ought to be rated XXX.

    Sadly, real life does not have a cheap mod to make nipples visible. Cash also only works on certain women.

    Couscous on
  • Spectral SwallowSpectral Swallow Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I have no doubt that I could totally shut down Nintendo(if this law passes) by making a mod for Super Mario World where Mario is naked. It wouldn't matter that I made it, Nintendo should have assumed I'd do that and found some magical way to stop me.

    Spectral Swallow on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I made a Hitler Mii. Nintendo should not produce games that allow me to easily make mass murderers.

    Couscous on
  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I have no doubt that I could totally shut down Nintendo(if this law passes) by making a mod for Super Mario World where Mario is naked. It wouldn't matter that I made it, Nintendo should have assumed I'd do that and found some magical way to stop me.

    That is trivially simple and I bet it's been done. :lol:

    Pata on
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  • WoodroezWoodroez Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    While I doubt this Upton fellow really knows what he talks about, I'm not really entirely against this kind of thing. With something like Hot Coffee, had the ESRB been presented with it, it's entirely possible it would have gotten the big AO on the front from the start. That is a case where, as the bill states:
    with the intent of obtaining a less restrictive age-based content rating, [the developer] failed to disclose content of the video game that was required to be disclosed to the independent ratings organization…

    If Rockstar wanted it out of the game, they probably should have really gotten rid of it, right down to the code. I've chosen to ignore that even this was a mod of sorts, for the sake of argument.

    The problem with this is when you get to mods. Developers have very little control over that sort of thing, even if they don't release mod tools. Oblivion got the M rating after outside sources allowed you to take clothes off the characters. What do you want them to do, not draw breasts on a woman? Perhaps we should eliminate female characters out of games completely.


    Another problem with this bill is that it's, well, a bill. The ESRB can do it's own thing, guys. It's their job; you folks in congress should do yours. You know, running the country.

    Woodroez on
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  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why doesn't anybody use the mod for female boobies in Oblivion as a reason for restricting content?

    If I remember right, that mod was what caused Oblivion to get an M rating some time after release.

    Oblivion was later given an M rating because models had boobies (without nipples), with clothing over them.
    By that logic Life ought to be rated XXX.
    That was the last semi-funny episode of Family Guy.

    Target Practice on
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  • TroubledTomTroubledTom regular
    edited March 2007
    How problematic this law is really depends on how it's prosecuted. "Content" will have to be defined pretty specifically, but clearly they were thinking of hot coffee type stuff here. Not just any graphic or text not visible during gameplay.

    That said, that crazy lawyer from Florida is going to try to use this law in ways in which it was most likely not intended.

    TroubledTom on
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  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Im hoping that hidden content will not effect ratings given though, becuase I mean, hell, in the windows 2k source code, theres loads of curse words. if theres ascii boobiez in spongebob squarepants thats rated E and someone steals source and reveals it, do devs/publishers deserve to be sued for content that was never meant to be seen?

    Source code is not content. There's no one-to-one conversion between source code and compiled code, and source code is (just about) never distributed with the finished product.

    Garthor on
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