I am wanting to make a Leader. Originally, I thought I wanted a Cleric. My reasoning was a Wisdom based character is all that was missing from the group. I also heard they are good about healing. I'd like them to be melee, though, as I already have two ranged characters and it'd be nice to have another body to flank with the Rogue while the Fighter is off taunting everyone. Looking at the power choices, though, it seems like a Wisdom Cleric shines more as a ranged character and most of the good melee powers are Strength based.
So, question one, am I wrong and a melee Wisdom Cleric as strong as a Strength based one?
Question two, I may not really care about the Leader being Wisdom based (the Thief has a 16 starting Wisdom and training in Insight, Perception, Dungeoneering and by Level 2 Nature), so is there a better choice than a Strength Cleric as a solid melee leader? I'd rather not a lazy lord, but if there is a more interesting Warlord build, that could be an option. Artificer sounds interesting (and I like their built in surge sharing mechanism), but I'm not familiar enough to know how they are in melee. Overall, I guess I am looking for a melee leader that is sturdy enough to survive while still bringing a good amount of healing and party buffs to the table. I saw someone play a Battle Lore Cleric and it seemed to fit that bill, but I think he was also trying to Wis/Str at the same time. I guess in my mind I also leaned toward Cleric due to "standard" fare type of healer + having someone in the group who is a more divine type (rest of the party is a Thief, Fighter, Bard-Sorcerer and Mage).
Truth is, I know very little about leaders in general, so trying to use the threads collective knowledge to help me narrow down to a couple of builds that might fit what I am looking for and do so well. I also realize I may have given little useful information as to what I am looking for. I play strikers usually.
Have you looked into a Runepriest? Not as much healing as a Cleric, but lots of party buffs and likes to be in the thick of combat to boot. Generally a good mix of offense and defense, and can prioritize one or the other from turn to turn.
I don't think that Artificer is likely to be what you're looking for. It's unfortunate that you don't want to go with lazy lord, since between their armor proficiencies and their greater ability to spread their stat points around means they tend to end up sturdier than other leaders. That said, I think you're pretty much on the right path with your Cleric. I mean only you really know what you want to play but Cleric is certainly capable of filling that role.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Ardent might likewise be an option, a psionic Charisma-based Leader that likes combat.
@Am0n the release of Essentials products brought in a WEALTH of wis-based weapon powers for clerics. A standard 4e cleric has the ability to pick and choose from all of them, and there are optional class features to sub out that are more melee oriented, if you want them.
You have tons of options. Cleric actually has a real, true excess of powers to wade through. Definitely a class I'd recommend check out the Char Op guide, if only because it helps you sort through the powers.
I am wanting to make a Leader. Originally, I thought I wanted a Cleric. My reasoning was a Wisdom based character is all that was missing from the group. I also heard they are good about healing. I'd like them to be melee, though, as I already have two ranged characters and it'd be nice to have another body to flank with the Rogue while the Fighter is off taunting everyone. Looking at the power choices, though, it seems like a Wisdom Cleric shines more as a ranged character and most of the good melee powers are Strength based.
So, question one, am I wrong and a melee Wisdom Cleric as strong as a Strength based one?
Question two, I may not really care about the Leader being Wisdom based (the Thief has a 16 starting Wisdom and training in Insight, Perception, Dungeoneering and by Level 2 Nature), so is there a better choice than a Strength Cleric as a solid melee leader? I'd rather not a lazy lord, but if there is a more interesting Warlord build, that could be an option. Artificer sounds interesting (and I like their built in surge sharing mechanism), but I'm not familiar enough to know how they are in melee. Overall, I guess I am looking for a melee leader that is sturdy enough to survive while still bringing a good amount of healing and party buffs to the table. I saw someone play a Battle Lore Cleric and it seemed to fit that bill, but I think he was also trying to Wis/Str at the same time. I guess in my mind I also leaned toward Cleric due to "standard" fare type of healer + having someone in the group who is a more divine type (rest of the party is a Thief, Fighter, Bard-Sorcerer and Mage).
Truth is, I know very little about leaders in general, so trying to use the threads collective knowledge to help me narrow down to a couple of builds that might fit what I am looking for and do so well. I also realize I may have given little useful information as to what I am looking for. I play strikers usually.
As mentioned above, you'll want to look at the Warpriest class (the essentials version of the Cleric). It is exactly what you're wanting. The "always works" Effect lines from their at-wills and encounters are amazing for making sure that you're effective even if your dice rolls hate you. Plus they have access to heavier armor and shields as well, so they can stand up to the enemies that their melee centered attacks will put them beside. Along with all of that, you can pull any of the other cleric support stuff over and use it as well, meaning you've got a ton of options open to you for customizing exactly what you can do and focus on.
I haven't looked much into Runepriest. I may have to.
Lazylord would probably work, but I already have my Bard-Sorcerer granting free attacks. I suppose more might not hurt, since Sneak Attack is per turn and it would just mean my Thief getting off like 4 attacks per round... I guess what I liked about Cleric, though, was he was doing the attacks himself and just boosting the team in the process.
I glanced at Warpriest. I think my biggest cripe was that the Domain really ties a lot of stuff together. Nice from a simplicity standpoint, but bad from a customization standpoint. I do like that you have access to the Warpriest powers as a Cleric, though. That may work out well. I didn't know they have Effects instead of Hits, which would be nice. One thing I did notice about the Warpriest powers (at least the At-Wills) is they seem to be next attack only, instead of until the end of your next turn type of boosts.
I think maybe what I need to do is just go back to the drawing board and try to figure out what I actually want for the leader. Originally it was Wis-based, but maybe that's not the case. If not, then I just need to figure out which Leaders can make good Melee options and see which fits best into the party. The Fighter is already a tanky guy with shield (the Shield + Javelin one I was talking about the other week), but maybe it wouldn't hurt for the Leader to be a bit tanky, too. I do plan to make my Thief pretty defensive, also, though, so I don't necessarily need the Leader to be super tough.
Runepriests and Seekers have the least amount of support, and it's unfortunate because they have some cool concepts in them. I would personally prefer to run a hybrid Cleric/Runepriest to allow for more options on powers.
Clerics have the most options available to them out of the Leader classes, though. Warlords are almost there, but they don't have a bunch of divine spells popping up in a million books that they can take.
Runepriests and Seekers have the least amount of support, and it's unfortunate because they have some cool concepts in them. I would personally prefer to run a hybrid Cleric/Runepriest to allow for more options on powers.
Clerics have the most options available to them out of the Leader classes, though. Warlords are almost there, but they don't have a bunch of divine spells popping up in a million books that they can take.
Maybe but Warlords do have two power source books, and they've got a build for every secondary accept Con (and even that if you count Bravura), plus while they're not as good at healing as Clerics, they're far more versatile, and with the right build can give most clerics a run for their money.
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12+ Constitution Score.
Hit Points per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges per Day: 7+ Constitution Modifier.
Trained Skills: Religion. From the class skills list below, choose 3 more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Religion (Int).
Class features: Channel Divinity Powers, Domain Features, Healing Word, Level 1 Warpriest Daily Power.
Warpriests use a combination of religious dedication and keen insight to access the divine magic granted by the gods they serve. Using that magic to back up impressive martial ability, warpriests serve as the shield of their faith. Warpriests protect the innocent from marauding monsters and lead adventuring expeditions into the dark unknown. They are drawn to the borderlands between the scattered settlements of civilization and the realms of chaos. There, they attend the spiritual and military needs of the population.
Warpriests occupy the middle ground between the wizard and the fighter. They are trained to use weapons and armor, but it is their induction into the mysteries of divine magic that makes them unique. A warpriest can smash an orc with a mace one moment and unleash divine power to smite a vampire the next. The power of weapons and the might of magic meet in the divine mandate of the warpriest.
and then they have builds for: Corellon, Death, Domination, Earth, Oghma, Selune (my fav), Storm, Sun, and Torm
Warpriests are fun, but they're very limited. You pick a domain, and that's it. That determines both your at-wills and ALL your encounter powers.
I guess you still get to pick your daily powers? And probably utilities. You can pick a paragon path, but the essentials classes tend to have pretty damn good paragon paths.
Warpriests are fun, but they're very limited. You pick a domain, and that's it. That determines both your at-wills and ALL your encounter powers.
I guess you still get to pick your daily powers? And probably utilities. You can pick a paragon path, but the essentials classes tend to have pretty damn good paragon paths.
Runepriests and Seekers have the least amount of support, and it's unfortunate because they have some cool concepts in them. I would personally prefer to run a hybrid Cleric/Runepriest to allow for more options on powers.
Clerics have the most options available to them out of the Leader classes, though. Warlords are almost there, but they don't have a bunch of divine spells popping up in a million books that they can take.
Maybe but Warlords do have two power source books, and they've got a build for every secondary accept Con (and even that if you count Bravura), plus while they're not as good at healing as Clerics, they're far more versatile, and with the right build can give most clerics a run for their money.
Cleric/Warlord hybrid is definitely viable as well. Arguably any leader is hybridable with the Warlord if you just take Lazy Warlord powers, although most of those have bonuses that tie into one ability score or the other.
If your game starts in the Paragon tier there's a bard paragon path that has the prerequisite of bard + any martial class. One of the 11th level benefits of the paragon path is that you can use Charisma as the stat for all your martial powers. You could make one hell of a Brauva Warlord if you made Strength your dump stat and pumped everything into Charisma.
Why yes, I have spent entirely too much time musing about possible character builds, why do you ask?
Warpriests are fun, but they're very limited. You pick a domain, and that's it. That determines both your at-wills and ALL your encounter powers.
I guess you still get to pick your daily powers? And probably utilities. You can pick a paragon path, but the essentials classes tend to have pretty damn good paragon paths.
Why yes, I have spent entirely too much time musing about possible character builds, why do you ask?
You are the only one. At Paragon I can turn the Thief (Striker) into a full blown Defender. Not quite the Mark Ignoring features of one, but super defenses and the ability to mark (even multiple targets) while still dishing out high damage.
What I do like about the Warpriest is Shield Proficiency, which Cleric don't get, but the Pick your Path and then all your at-wills and encounters are chosen for you is something that turns me off. I'll look into it a bit more, though, as maybe there is a path that seems like it offers what I would like out of the Leader anyway.
I'll probably get around to it in the next few days, so I'll post more if I have more questions.
There's a feat for Warlords, I believe it's in Martial Power 2, that gives them Scale and Heavy Shield proficiency. If you're looking to go toe to toe in melee, that seems like a good option.
There's a feat for Warlords, I believe it's in Martial Power 2, that gives them Scale and Heavy Shield proficiency. If you're looking to go toe to toe in melee, that seems like a good option.
I think they get heavy shields already, but it gives them scale and a healing surge, and it requires Battlefront Leader, which is the best fucking class feature evar.
There's a feat for Warlords, I believe it's in Martial Power 2, that gives them Scale and Heavy Shield proficiency. If you're looking to go toe to toe in melee, that seems like a good option.
I think they get heavy shields already, but it gives them scale and a healing surge, and it requires Battlefront Leader, which is the best fucking class feature evar.
There's a feat for Warlords, I believe it's in Martial Power 2, that gives them Scale and Heavy Shield proficiency. If you're looking to go toe to toe in melee, that seems like a good option.
I think they get heavy shields already, but it gives them scale and a healing surge, and it requires Battlefront Leader, which is the best fucking class feature evar.
Why do you feel Battlefront Leader is the best feature?
Well, it depends, really.
Combat Leader gives the party a +2 power bonus to Initiative.
Battlefront Leader gives you heavy shields, and gives you the Battlefront Shift power, which is very, very useful.
Battlefront shift says when you roll initiative, either you or one ally within 3 squares of you can shift half their speed.
This by itself is pretty damn nice since it helps with tactical deployment of the party.
However, now let's discuss feat support.
There's a feat for Combat leader that makes it a +3, that you can retrain in Paragon for another feat that makes it +Int/Cha mod. There's a few other feats for Combat leader that require a particular race or a particular Warlord Presence, and they all have varying utility. There's one for TacLords that lets you slide all your allies one square when you roll initiative.
However, Battlefront Shift has a paragon tier feat that adds an additional target to the power. Which means you and an ally, or two allies. This can be retrained in Epic for a feat that makes it burst 5 and affects all targets. Then there's a heroic tier feat that gives you scale and a healing surge, just for having Battlefront Leader, which makes you pretty beefy.
So, it's not so much that Battlefront Leader is the better feature, it's more that Combat leader is kind of vanilla, and while good, it's far easier to produce through other means. There are fucktons of ways for players to boost Init. But getting to just say, "oh, it's combat time? Right, form up lads!" is just, for me, way, way more fun.
Plus Battlefront Leader is the one that gives you a power that lets you make another party member do something.
and really
really
isn't that why you want to play a warlord to begin with?
After doing a first pass, I've narrowed it down to either Artificer (which I think could be workable, even in leather, since Int is primary ability), Cleric or Warpriest, or Warlord. Leaning Cleric or Warpriest as I like the fact that they seem to be able to hand out a varied quantity of stuff (saves, enemy debuffs, ally buffs, thp, hp, etc.), where Warlord seems to just hand out extra attacks (or maybe I haven't looked closely enough). If I went Warpriest, I'd probably have to go Human for the bonus at-will and take something with range (it's a requirement of mine that every character I make has a ranged option. I don't like being restrained/immobilized and just standing there twiddling my thumbs.).
I'll probably continue my refinement next weekend, once time permits.
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dresdenphileWatch out for snakes!Registered Userregular
Slightly off-topic, but our group just started a D&D 5/Next game, and I think I'm going to flip a table if I hear one more person extoll the return of "actual role-playing" with that edition compared to 4E.
You should do your best to use strictly 4E terms for everything. "Hey wizard, how many at-will spells do you have? Are you out of dailies yet?" Every time you get attacked ask which defense they're targeting, and add "versus AC" to all of your own attack rolls. When you get down to half your HP call out that you're bloodied. Refer to people by their party role. Count your movement in squares.
Okay probably don't actually do that. I totally would, but I don't play with that group anymore.
So, I have given one of my PCs an Obsidian Wand as treasure. The item fit both thematically and parcel-wise into the adventure, so I have no problems with it, but I would like to flavor it with some possible downsides to using the powers. Nothing super debilitating, but it is sort of an evil item and it's provenance is of the utmost unsavoriness. I'd also like to offer up some sort of quest to cleanse it. Has anyone done anything like either of these before, maybe have some suggestions as to minor penalties? Things banished by extended rests, maybe?
Perhaps have various unsavory creatures drawn to the wand? Like, goblins or strange shadowy spirits keep showing up and trying to steal it.
Or perhaps food and drink the character has after casting daily powers with it... just doesn't taste very good.
There's lots of little things you can come up with that aren't statistical penalties but can get players thinking that maybe something isn't quite right with the wand. If time goes on for a while, just keep adding more and more things happening until it's really obvious. Or, you know, have some NPC show up and be like "that thing is hella cursed you gotta get that shit cleansed".
So, I have given one of my PCs an Obsidian Wand as treasure. The item fit both thematically and parcel-wise into the adventure, so I have no problems with it, but I would like to flavor it with some possible downsides to using the powers. Nothing super debilitating, but it is sort of an evil item and it's provenance is of the utmost unsavoriness. I'd also like to offer up some sort of quest to cleanse it. Has anyone done anything like either of these before, maybe have some suggestions as to minor penalties? Things banished by extended rests, maybe?
Easy.
Whenever he makes any kind of check, put a malignant bent on how you describe it to that player. Like, even if he rolled middle of the pack on an Insight check, he's certain that magistrate is hiding something. He remembers hearing there was a bounty in town for some goblins, so they should kill these ones and bring the heads back to collect on it. Stuff like that.
So, my group and I were new to DnD when we started playing about a year ago and we're still very green. Anyway, we lost our Ranger to a move and are going to replace his seat at the table with another new player. He just wants us to make his character for him. I'd prefer not to just make another Ranger as we all agree some variety would be welcome. We have a Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, and Wizard. Any tips for what we can build for him that a first time DnDer could pilot easily?
We thought a rogue might be fun. Should we be concerned about having too many melee characters? Also, is a Rogue easy enough to play effectively by someone who we literally will be teaching "roll a d20 to attack"
We thought a rogue might be fun. Should we be concerned about having too many melee characters? Also, is a Rogue easy enough to play effectively by someone who we literally will be teaching "roll a d20 to attack"
Slayer is absolutely perfect for a brand new player. It doesn't care about positioning, can take a beating and just throws down a ton of damage without being too tricky.
Rogue is fine, you'll just have to teach them about flanking.
We thought a rogue might be fun. Should we be concerned about having too many melee characters? Also, is a Rogue easy enough to play effectively by someone who we literally will be teaching "roll a d20 to attack"
Essentials Slayer is probably easiest. Hit things with your giant sword.
Essentials Thief (rogue) is a simpler version of the rogue. They are decent and much better if he has friends who hang out in melee. Two things he'll need to get: He needs to do whatever he can to get combat advantage and he should always always always be using his movement tricks (which make it easy to get CA.)
One thing to remember with both of these is that they're "encounter" powers are decided after you roll. For the slayer that means he can pour on the damage on a crit. For the thief it means that near misses can become hits.
I haven't really explored the essentials classes at all. Any issues mixing one with a group of Core?
I don't want him to feel gimped or anything once he gets up to speed in the group.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
The Barbarian from PH2 is another alternative. Mostly what they do is butt-loads of damage. Their greatest complexity is that they gain additional bonuses (damage, temp. HP, bonuses to hit etc.) if they've used a Rage power (barb daily) that encounter.
Edit: Essentials classes are streamlined, not gimped. You get slightly less choice in terms of powers overall, but they can definitely keep up. Like, where a PH1 Fighter would get an extra Encounter power from maybe a dozen choices, the Slayer gets to add more bonus damage dice. Since martial Encounter powers are typically very much like at-wills but with more damage the overall effect is the same but the flexibility isn't there. Nor is the potential option paralysis either.
I haven't really explored the essentials classes at all. Any issues mixing one with a group of Core?
I don't want him to feel gimped or anything once he gets up to speed in the group.
Neither of those two classes will feel the least bit gimped. They are actually a little ahead on the power curve in general but not excessively so. Certainly not for a new player.
I may feel a little contained for options going forward but the kind of person who would just say "Make me a character" doesn't exactly strike me as the guy who wants to spend all the time and effort tweaking a character to perfection.
Yeah, I love the E-Rogue (Thief). It's not going to have the array of powers that a Rogue gets, but it makes up for that in flexibility. You get 5 Tricks over the span of your character, which can be anything from shift and knock a target prone, parkour up walls or move around the battlefield without provoking OAs. Not to mention a lot of nice passives (boosts to init, attack, damage, etc.) and with feats you can still take some Rogue Encounters to mix it up a bit. I personally dislike dailies, which is one reason I enjoy the Thief (no dailies, just a host of passives built into the class to make up for it).
I agree with DA, that going with an E-class is probably best. Not only is it less work for you, but it's less stuff for them to have to wrap their head around to start. Slayer is very straightforward, but Thief isn't far behind (he just has to understand Combat Advantage, but Thief has tricks that can give CA without flanking very often, so it's pretty easy to get). Then, if he really gets into it and wants the added complexity of an AEDU class, just let him make a new one.
Hey guys! On Saturday night I'll be playing my first ever game of D&D with a group of first timers (except our DM).
I'm piloting a Paladin of the Raven Queen. We have a fighter, warlock, wizard and rogue in the party. I have no idea what the adventure will be, but any words of advice, tips and tricks, etc. to pass along before I roll my first initiative?
Yeah, you're the group healer. =P Pick up some healing powers!
Edit: But real advice; don't listen to the haters. 4E has just as much RP as any other edition, if you want it to. It'll be up to the DM, typically, but most are pretty flexible with you refluffing pretty much anything. I like the concept of a Half-Drow, so I regularly refluff whatever race I find is best for my character statwise to a Half-Drow for RP purposes.
I'd also suggest spending some time familiarizing yourself with your character. One of the biggest drags of the game is how long people can spend going over their character sheet every turn to figure out what they want to do. Having a good understanding of your options before hand will help to keep things moving.
Hey guys! On Saturday night I'll be playing my first ever game of D&D with a group of first timers (except our DM).
I'm piloting a Paladin of the Raven Queen. We have a fighter, warlock, wizard and rogue in the party. I have no idea what the adventure will be, but any words of advice, tips and tricks, etc. to pass along before I roll my first initiative?
Paladins and fighters both mark. A new mark supersedes any mark placed before it, which means that you can't both mark the same target. Watch out for that and try not to double up with the fighter.
If you have any powers that apply a Divine Sanction, note that this is separate from Divine Challenge, but does not stack with it. Use it on an enemy that is not already subject to Divine Challenge.
Your party doesn't have a healer. Don't be afraid to use your Lay on Hands, but everyone should use their Second Wind before you resort to that. Don't forget about the +2 bonus to defenses when you use your Second Wind!
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Have you looked into a Runepriest? Not as much healing as a Cleric, but lots of party buffs and likes to be in the thick of combat to boot. Generally a good mix of offense and defense, and can prioritize one or the other from turn to turn.
I don't think that Artificer is likely to be what you're looking for. It's unfortunate that you don't want to go with lazy lord, since between their armor proficiencies and their greater ability to spread their stat points around means they tend to end up sturdier than other leaders. That said, I think you're pretty much on the right path with your Cleric. I mean only you really know what you want to play but Cleric is certainly capable of filling that role.
You have tons of options. Cleric actually has a real, true excess of powers to wade through. Definitely a class I'd recommend check out the Char Op guide, if only because it helps you sort through the powers.
As mentioned above, you'll want to look at the Warpriest class (the essentials version of the Cleric). It is exactly what you're wanting. The "always works" Effect lines from their at-wills and encounters are amazing for making sure that you're effective even if your dice rolls hate you. Plus they have access to heavier armor and shields as well, so they can stand up to the enemies that their melee centered attacks will put them beside. Along with all of that, you can pull any of the other cleric support stuff over and use it as well, meaning you've got a ton of options open to you for customizing exactly what you can do and focus on.
Here's a link to the Warpriest's CharOp guide, it's a good read and will give you a bunch of advice about everything you can do with the class.
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I haven't looked much into Runepriest. I may have to.
Lazylord would probably work, but I already have my Bard-Sorcerer granting free attacks. I suppose more might not hurt, since Sneak Attack is per turn and it would just mean my Thief getting off like 4 attacks per round... I guess what I liked about Cleric, though, was he was doing the attacks himself and just boosting the team in the process.
I glanced at Warpriest. I think my biggest cripe was that the Domain really ties a lot of stuff together. Nice from a simplicity standpoint, but bad from a customization standpoint. I do like that you have access to the Warpriest powers as a Cleric, though. That may work out well. I didn't know they have Effects instead of Hits, which would be nice. One thing I did notice about the Warpriest powers (at least the At-Wills) is they seem to be next attack only, instead of until the end of your next turn type of boosts.
I think maybe what I need to do is just go back to the drawing board and try to figure out what I actually want for the leader. Originally it was Wis-based, but maybe that's not the case. If not, then I just need to figure out which Leaders can make good Melee options and see which fits best into the party. The Fighter is already a tanky guy with shield (the Shield + Javelin one I was talking about the other week), but maybe it wouldn't hurt for the Leader to be a bit tanky, too. I do plan to make my Thief pretty defensive, also, though, so I don't necessarily need the Leader to be super tough.
Clerics have the most options available to them out of the Leader classes, though. Warlords are almost there, but they don't have a bunch of divine spells popping up in a million books that they can take.
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Maybe but Warlords do have two power source books, and they've got a build for every secondary accept Con (and even that if you count Bravura), plus while they're not as good at healing as Clerics, they're far more versatile, and with the right build can give most clerics a run for their money.
and then they have builds for: Corellon, Death, Domination, Earth, Oghma, Selune (my fav), Storm, Sun, and Torm
I guess you still get to pick your daily powers? And probably utilities. You can pick a paragon path, but the essentials classes tend to have pretty damn good paragon paths.
Yeah, essentials characters aren't for everyone
Cleric/Warlord hybrid is definitely viable as well. Arguably any leader is hybridable with the Warlord if you just take Lazy Warlord powers, although most of those have bonuses that tie into one ability score or the other.
If your game starts in the Paragon tier there's a bard paragon path that has the prerequisite of bard + any martial class. One of the 11th level benefits of the paragon path is that you can use Charisma as the stat for all your martial powers. You could make one hell of a Brauva Warlord if you made Strength your dump stat and pumped everything into Charisma.
Why yes, I have spent entirely too much time musing about possible character builds, why do you ask?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Oh and also hybrid executioners.
I love the Essentials Rogue (Thief).
You are the only one. At Paragon I can turn the Thief (Striker) into a full blown Defender. Not quite the Mark Ignoring features of one, but super defenses and the ability to mark (even multiple targets) while still dishing out high damage.
What I do like about the Warpriest is Shield Proficiency, which Cleric don't get, but the Pick your Path and then all your at-wills and encounters are chosen for you is something that turns me off. I'll look into it a bit more, though, as maybe there is a path that seems like it offers what I would like out of the Leader anyway.
I'll probably get around to it in the next few days, so I'll post more if I have more questions.
Thanks again, everyone.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I think they get heavy shields already, but it gives them scale and a healing surge, and it requires Battlefront Leader, which is the best fucking class feature evar.
Why do you feel Battlefront Leader is the best feature?
Well, it depends, really.
Combat Leader gives the party a +2 power bonus to Initiative.
Battlefront Leader gives you heavy shields, and gives you the Battlefront Shift power, which is very, very useful.
Battlefront shift says when you roll initiative, either you or one ally within 3 squares of you can shift half their speed.
This by itself is pretty damn nice since it helps with tactical deployment of the party.
However, now let's discuss feat support.
There's a feat for Combat leader that makes it a +3, that you can retrain in Paragon for another feat that makes it +Int/Cha mod. There's a few other feats for Combat leader that require a particular race or a particular Warlord Presence, and they all have varying utility. There's one for TacLords that lets you slide all your allies one square when you roll initiative.
However, Battlefront Shift has a paragon tier feat that adds an additional target to the power. Which means you and an ally, or two allies. This can be retrained in Epic for a feat that makes it burst 5 and affects all targets. Then there's a heroic tier feat that gives you scale and a healing surge, just for having Battlefront Leader, which makes you pretty beefy.
So, it's not so much that Battlefront Leader is the better feature, it's more that Combat leader is kind of vanilla, and while good, it's far easier to produce through other means. There are fucktons of ways for players to boost Init. But getting to just say, "oh, it's combat time? Right, form up lads!" is just, for me, way, way more fun.
Plus Battlefront Leader is the one that gives you a power that lets you make another party member do something.
and really
really
isn't that why you want to play a warlord to begin with?
I'll probably continue my refinement next weekend, once time permits.
Okay probably don't actually do that. I totally would, but I don't play with that group anymore.
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Or perhaps food and drink the character has after casting daily powers with it... just doesn't taste very good.
There's lots of little things you can come up with that aren't statistical penalties but can get players thinking that maybe something isn't quite right with the wand. If time goes on for a while, just keep adding more and more things happening until it's really obvious. Or, you know, have some NPC show up and be like "that thing is hella cursed you gotta get that shit cleansed".
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Easy.
Whenever he makes any kind of check, put a malignant bent on how you describe it to that player. Like, even if he rolled middle of the pack on an Insight check, he's certain that magistrate is hiding something. He remembers hearing there was a bounty in town for some goblins, so they should kill these ones and bring the heads back to collect on it. Stuff like that.
If you have the Essentials stuff: Slayer. Hit things very very hard.
If you have a PHB (and want a change): Rogue hit things not so hard but in very painful places.
We thought a rogue might be fun. Should we be concerned about having too many melee characters? Also, is a Rogue easy enough to play effectively by someone who we literally will be teaching "roll a d20 to attack"
Rogue is fine, you'll just have to teach them about flanking.
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Essentials Slayer is probably easiest. Hit things with your giant sword.
Essentials Thief (rogue) is a simpler version of the rogue. They are decent and much better if he has friends who hang out in melee. Two things he'll need to get: He needs to do whatever he can to get combat advantage and he should always always always be using his movement tricks (which make it easy to get CA.)
One thing to remember with both of these is that they're "encounter" powers are decided after you roll. For the slayer that means he can pour on the damage on a crit. For the thief it means that near misses can become hits.
I don't want him to feel gimped or anything once he gets up to speed in the group.
Edit: Essentials classes are streamlined, not gimped. You get slightly less choice in terms of powers overall, but they can definitely keep up. Like, where a PH1 Fighter would get an extra Encounter power from maybe a dozen choices, the Slayer gets to add more bonus damage dice. Since martial Encounter powers are typically very much like at-wills but with more damage the overall effect is the same but the flexibility isn't there. Nor is the potential option paralysis either.
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Neither of those two classes will feel the least bit gimped. They are actually a little ahead on the power curve in general but not excessively so. Certainly not for a new player.
I may feel a little contained for options going forward but the kind of person who would just say "Make me a character" doesn't exactly strike me as the guy who wants to spend all the time and effort tweaking a character to perfection.
I agree with DA, that going with an E-class is probably best. Not only is it less work for you, but it's less stuff for them to have to wrap their head around to start. Slayer is very straightforward, but Thief isn't far behind (he just has to understand Combat Advantage, but Thief has tricks that can give CA without flanking very often, so it's pretty easy to get). Then, if he really gets into it and wants the added complexity of an AEDU class, just let him make a new one.
I'm piloting a Paladin of the Raven Queen. We have a fighter, warlock, wizard and rogue in the party. I have no idea what the adventure will be, but any words of advice, tips and tricks, etc. to pass along before I roll my first initiative?
Edit: But real advice; don't listen to the haters. 4E has just as much RP as any other edition, if you want it to. It'll be up to the DM, typically, but most are pretty flexible with you refluffing pretty much anything. I like the concept of a Half-Drow, so I regularly refluff whatever race I find is best for my character statwise to a Half-Drow for RP purposes.
I'd also suggest spending some time familiarizing yourself with your character. One of the biggest drags of the game is how long people can spend going over their character sheet every turn to figure out what they want to do. Having a good understanding of your options before hand will help to keep things moving.
Healing? Who is he to tamper with the Queen's call to the weak?